Latest Lavar Ball backlash

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/lavar-ball-jerk-taunting-afford-shoes-article-1.3139737

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/dick-vitale-takes-twitteer-shot-lavar-ball-shoe-release-article-1.3139437

The moral conundrum I'm confronting now is that I'd really like to stick it to Lavar Ball but not to Lonzo, who hasn't said much of anything.  So, my gut reaction of "I hope Lonzo rarely gets off the pine like #5 pick Dante Exum does" is going after Lonzo.  Sure, Lavar's "Big Baller" brand would be hurt because there would be no star power behind them but it's getting at him through his kid, and that's not right.

I realize I have ZERO influence over any of this, nobody I know would ever buy those sneakers and I don't work for whichever franchise drafts him, but karma is a bitch and it will find you wherever you are and I haven't been such a saint in my life that I've got extra karma to burn...


bob


.

I am going to make a prediction that the BBB may take hold. The market will ultimately set the price for the merchandise.

Lavar talks a lot of smack but he is no dummy.

If Lonzo is a hit in the NBA the brand will take off. If he flops the brand will flop.

dboss

Lonzo is extremely overrated right now. Phil Pressey would have looked like a superstar in that same situation. UCLA was a team of elite shooters, they just didn't have a decent pass-first point guard.
Enter the flashy, cocky Lonzo Ball, whose one scoring move was a gimmicky 25 footer that his marketing-focused father was drilling him in since age 12.

The narrative is that Lonzo single handedly turned that team around, but UCLA was an absolutely perfect fit for Lonzo. I think the team shot over 40% from 3. The Lonzo narrative also completely ignores that UCLA's best player was arguably TJ Leaf, a fellow freshman who led the team in scoring and who shot 47% from 3.

Part of the reason Lonzo got all the credit is because his three best teammates were white. Two white guys scored more points than Lonzo, and they both shot better from 3 than Lonzo. Lonzo's big claim to fame is his high assist numbers and his gimmicky 25 foot funk shot.

Like I said, Phil Pressey could have averaged as many assists as Lonzo on that team, and would have been able to actually dribble drive and dish or score at the rim. Lonzo has a terrible first step, and terribly slow feet defensively.

NBA is a different game. More spacing, more athletic point guards. NBA PG generally requires athleticism similar to NFL cornerbacks. Nobody's worried about being stuck on Lonzo Island. He's a dead man walking.

The whole BBB brand thing sounds great, right up until the games start in November.

LaVar Ball has become the story that just won't go away, and the over-reaction has become funny when you look at it objectively.

First off, Lonzo will be unaffected by dad.  This is a very talented kid, who is probably going top 3 or 4 in the draft... at the worst.  No one needs to confuse father and son either.  The kid has a good head on his shoulders, and is used to the old man's show-boating.  Young point guards who can shoot, distribute, and even defend a little are in high demand, and teams will put up with the side show to acquire that talent.

Besides, this is far from the only distraction in the NBA, and not nearly the worst.  In time dad will go erect the same circus tent around his other two future stars.  He's going to be too busy to be a real problem.

Not everything LaVar has done has been on the unreasonable edge of madness either.  Upon further review, the BBB shoe thing is a piece of genius.  Like most, I couldn't figure out where he was going with this at first, but it's a marketing dream.

$495 sneakers and $200 flip-flops.  Kids can't afford them, and no adult is going to want to be seen wearing them.  Most adults with any dignity won't wear Jordans, or any shoe with a player name attached, so they're not parading around in a shoe attached to a 19-year old rookie.

Yet it's pure genius by LaVar Ball.  Because, in part, he doesn't need to sell many at all.  Give me two paragraphs, I'll get there in the third...

So who is buying these ridiculous, over the top kicks?  Especially the ones you can get autographed for nearly a grand?  As every marketing and psych student knows, it's "The Tug Effect."  The money gets ponied up by parents of spoiled brats who get everything they want.  Ahhh, there it is.  21st century class expansion!  Mommy and daddy can swing about $500 bucks, it isn't really that much in today's economy.  Well, not every mommy and daddy, just the ones who either both work, or are doing just a little better than those around them.  Because after all, in today's society, my kid has to be more special than yours.  And the $200 flip-flops?  Heck, $200 isn't that much compared to the price of the shoes.  And I can still send junior out with the latest hot logo on his feet.  The high price is also part of the appeal. "Snob Appeal," another marketing mainstay, taught in every advertising 101 class ever offered.  If I can buy it, and everyone know it's expensive, it says I have arrived, and I'm better than you.

So the LaVar noise and marketing machine revs up enough to get attention focused on the odd dad with the future undeniable star kid.  He chases down three big sneaker companies, who very publicly tell him no, while all the while he already has a manufacturer, and actual finished prototype product, which he rolls out not a week later!  LaVar didn't need the sneaker big three to make him a partner, he already had the shoe ready to roll.  He just needed the publicity to shine a spotlight on his product...and he got it free!  It doesn't even matter if Lonzo becomes a big star right away, or ever, because the other two kids coming up are going to keep the light shining on the brand for quite some time.  And if Lonzo fulfills his potential, and I think he very likely will, there will be no stopping the train.  Two more shots at the golden ring coming up right behind Lonzo too.

And here's the best part; no orders will be filled until November 24, and no returns.  Genius!  Huh...how...why?  LaVar has pulled the marketing and manufacturing perfect storm trifecta.  Practically free global publicity with low inventory, low cost manufacturing, and no brick-and-mortar store or parent brand to share in the profit.  The kicker to these kicks is, unlike Nike, Under Armour, and Adidas, whom he really didn't want anyway, he doesn't have to project sales and carry inventory.  They're not building them until orders are in, so they don't have to guess at how many of each style in each size to assemble and stock.  They know almost exactly how many to make.  And if they aren't right, they aren't coming back.  No overrun in any size or style to eat or discount and no extra stock to swap out on returns for size.  With that system in place, you need to crank out a relatively low sales volume to cover costs and keep a healthy profit margin.

So dad's a little on the mad side, and a little on the mad genius side too.

And the kid is level headed and can play the point or two-guard at a level that puts him in high demand for the NBA after one year of school.

All the cranking, complaining and much ado about nothing publicity is going to treat the Ball family just fine.

Remember the saying about the fine line between brilliance and madness?  LaVar's dancing on that line with perfect balance, and creating the attention and buzz that will help boost the collegiate and professional stock of three already talented sons.  He's taken the Williams sisters' lesson and is in the process of building it bigger and better.

OK; who's the madman now?

The scouting community has been terrible at predicting PG success in the NBA. Nobody's trying to buy sneakers from Dante Exum, Emmanuel Mudiay, Kris Dunn, or even D'Angelo Russell.

And all of those guys didn't have a target on their back in the way Lonzo and his dad have painted for themselves.

People love the idea of Lonzo, and the idea of Big Baller Brand, but he simply doesn't translate to the NBA at anything better than an average starter, and even that is really pushing it.

Rmbone, You R so right about young guards an the NBA. Way too many underachievers. Sure hope we don't waste a high draft pick on Ball.

What I can't understand is why he called the brand "Big Baller". Under Armour and Nike and others sell to men and women. What woman would wear sneakers or anything else with the words "Big Baller" on it?

Some people love their name too much.


bob


.

Bob,

That is perhaps the one weakness in the whole plan.  I'm sure they were thinking the term "Baller" has become synonymous with "basketball player."  I have heard young women at some tourneys refer to themselves as ballers, but no one old enough to have the money to buy a pair!

Still, for a plan created by some amateur, whose only strong point is his three sons, LaVar Ball is going to be laughing at everyone who criticized him.  There is no way he goes into the hole on this one, and not much chance he doesn't come out on the plus side.  Maybe well on the plus side.  I'm not a fan of LaVar myself, although I like Lonzo's game a lot.  LaVar will be making some bank on this, despite the view many of us have of him. That much is fairly certain.

Regards

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/nba-coach-bursts-laughing-asked-ball-sneakers-article-1.3139232



Warriors interim coach Mike Brown bursts out laughing when asked about Big Baller Brand $495 sneakers



BY AMARA GRAUTSKI
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS


Friday, May 5, 2017, 8:04 AM








This Warriors coach isn't a big baller.

On the same day LaVar Ball, UCLA product Lonzo Ball's father, and Big Baller Brand unveiled their $495 ZO2 sneakers, Mike Brown was asked if he would buy his children "a pair of shoes for $500 from an unproven NBA player after college?"

"Uh, no," the Warriors interim head coach responded before Golden State's 115-104 win over Utah, while bursting out in laughter.

Brown has been filling in for Steve Kerr, who has been suffering from back pain related to a 2015 surgery.


There was a wave of criticsm on social media over the price of the shoe, including from Shaquille O'Neal who tweeted: "Hey @Lavarbigballer real big baller brands don't over charge kids for shoes."

But the elder Ball wasn't having any of it.

"Big Baller's loose! If you can't afford the ZO2'S, you're NOT a BIG BALLER!" LaVar tweeted, along with a money bag emoji.



Follow
Big Baller Brand @bigballerbrand
The Sports World is Forever Changed. Introducing Lonzo's 1st Signature Shoe: The ZO2 Prime.
12:39 PM - 4 May 2017
 6,917 6,917 Retweets   10,420 10,420 likes


Some athletes did appreciate LaVar's ingenuity, creating his own company instead of having Lonzo team up with an established one.

NFL star Michael Bennett said he is going to buy two pairs of the sneaker out of "respect" for what LaVar is doing.

"Giving his kids a chance to be owners and not a slave to the system. Not one player gets stock in Nike this is his company a lot different," he tweeted on Thursday, while adding "keep buying Nike and Adidas n go visit their factories and see if u still feel that way."

His brother, Martellus Bennett, seemed intrigued but wasn’t buying the price: “$500 is the issue. Interested in seeing their marketing strategy.”


bob
MY NOTE:  If you have so much money that you can drop $500 on a pair of sneakers "out of respect", then good for you.  99% of the people cannot or would not do that.  If Lavar Ball was donating his profits to charity, then you might see more but the way things are now you'll see other athletes paying homage "to his vision" but nobody else will have that kind of a vested interest in seeing the system change like Bennett does. Personally, I think they lack color.  They look like they might be semi-formal wear, because they're black and black goes iwth everything, but on the court they're just "black.


.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/report-less-300-big-baller-150608299.html



Report: Less than 300 Big Baller Brand shoes were sold on first day


Rob Dauster,NBC Sports


2 hours 40 minutes ago




Over the weekend, rumors swirled that the Ball family had netted themselves a seven-figure payday, selling upwards of 5,000 pairs of Lonzo Ball’s new, signature Big Baller Brand shoe, the ZO2.

That probably isn’t true.

The sneakerheads over at NiceKicks.com did the legwork, tracking invoice numbers — staffers there not only bought a pair of ZO2s, but they also snagged a pair of BBB shorts — and inventory levels to determine that the real number of shoes sold in the first day that the ZO2s were on sale was probably less than 300.

From Nice Kicks:

Out of the 328 transactions that happened on BigBallerBrand.com in the first 24 hours that the shoes were offered for sale, we tracked that a total of just 263 pairs of sneakers had sold in both signed and unsigned versions of the ZO2 Prime. While we have no access to sales receipts, transactions or traffic data, we have been monitoring the inventory levels of the footwear listed on BigBallerBrand.com. After noting the initial product levels at the start and deducting the current units sold, we can confidently say that 210 pairs of unsigned ZO2 Primes had sold (103 pairs in sz 8.5 alone), along with 53 autographed ZO2 Primes.

By their count, the Ball family did a little more than $150,000 in total revenue in their first day in business.

That’s not bad, and it’s a nice little pool of cash to get their operation up and running, but it’s not millions and it’s certainly not, as LaVar Ball likes to put it, “about them B’s — billions.”


Big Baller Brand releases sneaker

Hana Ostapchuk is joined by Matt Norlander to talk about the BBB shoe that's getting all the buzz.


Where BBB goes from here will be fascinating. Personally, I’m rooting for the Ball family. I respect the hustle and the ambition, and I think that LaVar himself is pure comedy. But with the amount of attention that he got when this shoe was finally released last Thursday — Darren Rovell said on The Dan Le Betard Show that the social traction he got was worth $50 million in advertising — it’s not a great sign that he was only able to move 263 pairs.


bob


.

This article points out the brilliance behind LaVar Ball's actions; be it planned or accidental.

If this was done through a major shoe company, it would be a disaster.  In the normal process, once the endorsement deal is struck, huge inventories need to be created to meet anticipated sales.  In this case, nothing gets done until late November, and then only for exactly what has been ordered.  And you can bet they'll push a lot higher than first day sales over the coming months.  They can probably anticipate a spike on and shortly after draft day, and another when brother #2 suits up for UCLA later this year.  If brother #3 does anything remotely like last season's 92 point performance this year, as a HS junior, another big sales day follows.   Whatever sum is raised, can then get plowed right back into working capital for whatever they plan to do next.  It doesn't have to be big overnight to keep building.  And with three kids that have gone, or will go through UCLA, and possibly on to the NBA over the next three plus years, the risks are fairly minimal.

That's only a brief, simplistic description.  The variables are much more complex, of course, and can get exponentially better, or worse.

The important aspect is self-control.  If they have the self-control to take the capital raised, and look for other development or marketing opportunities, with some actual professional help, this could be a great start-up for a long-term operation.  It's not get rich overnight, it's do well over time.

Like I keep saying, the guy is annoying...and playing his cards the right way, too.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/lavar-ball-michael-jordan-cant-command-495-shoes-aint-lonzo-ball-184318519.html

LaVar Ball:  Michael Jordan can't command $495 for shoes "because he ain't Lonzo Ball."

http://nypost.com/2017/05/13/nba-insiders-open-up-on-how-much-lavar-ball-hurts-lonzo/

steve3344 wrote:http://nypost.com/2017/05/13/nba-insiders-open-up-on-how-much-lavar-ball-hurts-lonzo/

Ah yes, the crystal clear, always authentic, New York Post.

The title implies that dad might hurt the draft position of his son.

And then the article is heavily laced with the general consensus; dad will have no negative effect since the teams are strictly looking at the player.  As a matter of fact, the worst they can come up with is speculation, without a clear source, that Lonzo Ball might go #2, instead of #1, because of dad.  Really?  Fall all the way to #2?

The Enquirer.  The Post. Same thing.

Next we'll read about how LaVar Ball is the love child of Diana Ross and an alien from an undiscovered galaxy.  Then again, that one could be real.

NYCelt wrote:

steve3344 wrote:http://nypost.com/2017/05/13/nba-insiders-open-up-on-how-much-lavar-ball-hurts-lonzo/

Ah yes, the crystal clear, always authentic, New York Post.

The title implies that dad might hurt the draft position of his son.

And then the article is heavily laced with the general consensus; dad will have no negative effect since the teams are strictly looking at the player.  As a matter of fact, the worst they can come up with is speculation, without a clear source, that Lonzo Ball might go #2, instead of #1, because of dad.  Really?  Fall all the way to #2?

The Enquirer.  The Post.  Same thing.

Next we'll read about how LaVar Ball is the love child of Diana Ross and an alien from an undiscovered galaxy.  Then again, that one could be real.

NYCelt, not everybody is as infatuated with LaVar Ball as you. Lonzo could drop a lot farther than #2, and not just because of LaVar. But LaVar has already said Lonzo will go to the Lakers, and LaVar will "speak it into existence". He'll bad-mouth Lonzo's teammates, coach, GM, owner, and fanbase to force Lonzo to the Lakers.

Billionaire owners didn't get that way by believing that clowns like LaVar are brilliant. And every owner's worst nightmare is something like the Charles Oakley/James Dolan situation, where the fanbase sided with Oakley over the owner. Another nightmare scenario is the Colin Kaepernick situation, where his kneeling for the national anthem ended up costing the NFL millions of dollars in ratings and merchandise sales.

Any smart owner, GM, and coach want predictability. They don't want some professional wrestling-style freak show that they can't control, that makes their team the butt of jokes around the league, and causes a huge distraction and division for the players.

LaVar has all but admitted that he's going to call out Lonzo's future teammates, and 'ain't nobody gonna tell me what I can say.' Skip to 6:29

LaVar Ball is a total disaster waiting to happen. He's already been a disaster for Lonzo's wallet, and he's going to cost Lonzo even more money on draft night. Each draft position Lonzo drops will cost him about 2-3 million dollars over the course of the rookie deal. And LaVar pricing Lonzo's shoe so high cost Lonzo millions as well. LaVar wouldn't have received a cut of the multi-million dollar deal Lonzo could have had with Nike, Adidas, or Under Armor. But LaVar will get the lion's share of the "symbolic shoe" money from the Big Baller Brand shoe.

NY Celt, you've been charmed and seduced by a charismatic narcissistic sociopath. LaVar Ball is OJ Simpson all over again. And if Lonzo ever stands up to him, LaVar will never forgive him. LaVar wants to control Lonzo's life forever, and always be the Big Baller of the family. He couldn't care less about Lonzo as a person, just like he couldn't care less that his wife is still in the hospital with a stroke.

as a father, all I can say is......when you say or do things to harm your child, you are NOT doing your job.

I feel bad for the kid to be honest, that said I hope Danny stays FAR away from this mess.

Rambone,

I think you're missing my point.  I'm not at all charmed by LaVar Ball.  I've said in several posts I dislike the guy.

I simply think a great many people are over-reacting.

The fact is, nothing he is doing is going to hurt this son's draft stock, and it looks like probably not the next two sons either.  That comes from good credible sources; NBA GMs.  LaVar is a sideshow that NBA execs already have dismissed.  He only makes news because he's distracting to those with nothing else to talk about.  Lonzo goes top 4, easily.

And to those of us throughout the Northeast, especially in the state of NY, the NY Post is somewhat the butt of a long-running joke.  Hence the meaning behind my last post.  You might also notice my shot at LaVar Ball in the last line of that post.

Regards

NYCelt wrote:Rambone,

I think you're missing my point.  I'm not at all charmed by LaVar Ball.  I've said in several posts I dislike the guy.

I simply think a great many people are over-reacting.

The fact is, nothing he is doing is going to hurt this son's draft stock, and it looks like probably not the next two sons either.  That comes from good credible sources; NBA GMs.  LaVar is a sideshow that NBA execs already have dismissed.  He only makes news because he's distracting to those with nothing else to talk about.  Lonzo goes top 4, easily.

And to those of us throughout the Northeast, especially in the state of NY, the NY Post is somewhat the butt of a long-running joke.  Hence the meaning behind my last post.  You might also notice my shot at LaVar Ball in the last line of that post.

Regards

I feel bad for the kid to have such an overbearing father IN the public eye with so many controversial quotes already....I don't know how you can say that won't effect his sons draft stock, kid's game still has long way to go from what I saw in his last college game.

cowens/oldschool wrote:

NYCelt wrote:Rambone,

I think you're missing my point.  I'm not at all charmed by LaVar Ball.  I've said in several posts I dislike the guy.

I simply think a great many people are over-reacting.

The fact is, nothing he is doing is going to hurt this son's draft stock, and it looks like probably not the next two sons either.  That comes from good credible sources; NBA GMs.  LaVar is a sideshow that NBA execs already have dismissed.  He only makes news because he's distracting to those with nothing else to talk about.  Lonzo goes top 4, easily.

And to those of us throughout the Northeast, especially in the state of NY, the NY Post is somewhat the butt of a long-running joke.  Hence the meaning behind my last post.  You might also notice my shot at LaVar Ball in the last line of that post.

Regards

I feel bad for the kid to have such an overbearing father IN the public eye with so many controversial quotes already....I don't know how you can say that won't effect his sons draft stock, kid's game still has long way to go from what I saw in his last college game.

Cow,

I say that because that's what the GMs are saying.  As a matter of fact, in one interview with Magic Johnson (running on the ESPN Sports Center rotation right now), he even laughed at the suggestion that his team would let the father have any effect on drafting the son.  Pro teams don't get caught up in these side-shows because the thing that counts is what happens on the court. Some press and fans are the only ones making it an issue.  LaVar Ball will probably pipe down just like LeBron's mom eventually did.

BTW; Lonzo did have an off game as they were eliminated from the tourney, but that was far from his usual.  The kid's going to be a good one.

Regards

NYCelt wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:

NYCelt wrote:Rambone,

I think you're missing my point.  I'm not at all charmed by LaVar Ball.  I've said in several posts I dislike the guy.

I simply think a great many people are over-reacting.

The fact is, nothing he is doing is going to hurt this son's draft stock, and it looks like probably not the next two sons either.  That comes from good credible sources; NBA GMs.  LaVar is a sideshow that NBA execs already have dismissed.  He only makes news because he's distracting to those with nothing else to talk about.  Lonzo goes top 4, easily.

And to those of us throughout the Northeast, especially in the state of NY, the NY Post is somewhat the butt of a long-running joke.  Hence the meaning behind my last post.  You might also notice my shot at LaVar Ball in the last line of that post.

Regards

I feel bad for the kid to have such an overbearing father IN the public eye with so many controversial quotes already....I don't know how you can say that won't effect his sons draft stock, kid's game still has long way to go from what I saw in his last college game.

Cow,

I say that because that's what the GMs are saying.  As a matter of fact, in one interview with Magic Johnson (running on the ESPN Sports Center rotation right now), he even laughed at the suggestion that his team would let the father have any effect on drafting the son.  Pro teams don't get caught up in these side-shows because the thing that counts is what happens on the court. Some press and fans are the only ones making it an issue.  LaVar Ball will probably pipe down just like LeBron's mom eventually did.

BTW; Lonzo did have an off game as they were eliminated from the tourney, but that was far from his usual.  The kid's going to be a good one.

Regards

Lonzo had an off-game in the first round of the Pac-12 Tournament, and UCLA barely won by two points. Then he had another off-game in the second round of the Pac-12 Tournament, and UCLA lost.

The idea that Lonzo had one off-game is absurd. Just like the idea that TJ Leaf wasn't a huge part of UCLA's turnaround.

Rambone,

I disagree. I think Ball was well defended in the first go-around. Good game plan. And every player has an off game at times. No one here said anything about TJ Leaf, did they? I think he's an outstanding player.

Regards

NYCelt wrote:Rambone,

I disagree.  I think Ball was well defended in the first go-around.  Good game plan.  And every player has an off game at times.  No one here said anything about TJ Leaf, did they?  I think he's an outstanding player.

Regards

Ball is a Mike D'Antoni/Daryl Morey type player. Put up empty offensive numbers in the regular season when defenses aren't 100% locked in, and then get exposed in the playoffs.

Per source, the #Lakers would pass on Lonzo Ball if #nbadraft was today. Team isn't convinced he's a star and remains concerned about LaVar.

http://www.lakersnation.com/lakers-rumors-l-a-would-pass-on-lonzo-ball-if-draft-were-today/2017/06/03/