This Is for Boston

by **bobheckler** Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:40 pm

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/isaiah-thomas-trade-celtics-cavaliers/

This Is for Boston

SEP 6 2017

ISAIAH THOMAS / CONTRIBUTORPHOTO BY CHARLES KRUPA/AP IMAGES

Isaiah Thomas, Guard / Cleveland Cavaliers - The Players' Tribune

ISAIAH THOMAS
GUARD / CLEVELAND CAVALIERS

It’s funny, I’d just been celebrating.

When I got the call from Danny, I was leaving the airport — my wife, Kayla, and I were coming back from having celebrated our one-year wedding anniversary. We’d gone to Miami for a couple of days — and now we were back in Seattle, driving home.

I missed the call, must have been doing something in the car. Danny left a text.

“IT, call me when you can.”

Sounds dramatic, but that’s actually a pretty normal text from Danny. Could’ve been about all sorts of things. So I called him back, still driving and not really thinking much of it. He knew I’d been on my trip, so he asked me a few questions about it. I’m sure I asked him how he was, maybe how the family was doing. Again, you know, just that normal sort of talk.

And then somewhere in there, it was just like … it was barely anything. This little pause in the conversation. And that’s when he told me.

“I just traded you.”

Simple as that. No big words, no big speech. Though I guess when it comes to shit like that, there’s not much more to say.

“To where.” That’s all I could manage.

“To the Cavaliers, for Kyrie.”

And that’s when, like — man. You ever been on the phone, and someone says something … and then all of a sudden, all you can think about after is, I don’t want to be on the phone anymore? Not even in a rude way. Just, like, your willpower to have a conversation shuts down. That’s what it was like for me in that moment.

Danny started going on about everything I’ve done for the city of Boston, and for the Celtics organization, both on and off the court. About what a great player I am, and how I’m going to be great in Cleveland. You know, telling me that type of stuff. And it was just like … at that point in time? I definitely didn’t want to hear none of that.

So I was steady trying to cut him off a few times, and then eventually I did. It was basically, you know — I appreciate you reaching out, appreciate you telling me, but there’s really nothing else that you or I need to be saying right now.

And that was the gist of it.

That was the call.

Man … so much was going through my head in that moment. But I almost needed to block it out for the time being. My first instinct was to figure out what this would mean for my family. I thought about my two sons, James and Jaiden, and having to tell them that it was time to move. I knew it was going to come as a shock to them — first, with it being right before the start of the school year. And second, knowing how much Boston had started to feel like a home to them. To all of us.

The boys had been staying at my mom’s while Kayla and I were away, and so as soon as we got home from the airport, we FaceTimed them. I knew the news was bound to leak sooner or later, and I wanted to make sure that they heard it from me. And so I told them what had happened: Dad got traded.

James, my oldest — I guess he really is his father’s son, because he asked the same first question I did. “To where?”

“Cleveland. They traded me for Kyrie.” And I’m pretty sure you know what came next.

“LEBRON! LEBRON JAMES! Dad — Dad. You get to play with LeBron James!”

Jaiden, though, he’s my little guy, maybe a little more sensitive — and he loves Boston more than anyone. So I knew the news was potentially going to be more hurtful for him. And just looking at his reaction, when he heard, I could tell I was right. He seemed kind of heartbroken.

I said, “Jaiden, are you happy or are you sad?”

“Sad.”

“Why?”

And he said, “Because Cleveland probably doesn’t have skate parks.”

He’s big on skating and stuff. So he was definitely upset with that. (Cleveland, if y’all got skate parks, @ me on Twitter.)

A few hours later, it was all over the news. All my social media was blowing up. I must have had a thousand messages, and seen a thousand reactions.

PHOTO BY BRIAN BABINEAU/NBAE/GETTY IMAGES

But the truth is — those first two reactions I got, from my sons? That was all I needed. All those takes, all the rumors, all the expert analysis going around … and, man, my sons got it more right in a couple of minutes over FaceTime. Everything about that trade, everything that I was feeling in my heart in those moments — they got it down to the only two things that mattered.

One, as my oldest said it: “LeBron James.” Or put another way — I get to come over and join the best team in the East, and try to win a championship alongside the best basketball player in the world.

And two, as my youngest said it: “Sad.” Or put another way — man, man, am I going to miss this city.

Man, am I going to miss being a Celtic.

But yeah, I’ll just say it: That shit hurt. It hurt a lot.

And I won’t lie — it still hurts.

It’s not that I don’t understand it. Of course I get it: This is a business. Danny is a businessman, and he made a business move. I don’t agree with it, just personally, and I don’t think the Boston Celtics got better by making this trade. But that’s not my job. That’s Danny’s. And it’s a tough job, and he’s been really good at it. But at the end of the day, these deals just come down to one thing: business. So it’s no hard feelings on that end. I’m a grown man, and I know what I got into when I joined this league — and so far it’s been more blessings than curses. I’m not sitting here, writing this, because I feel I was wronged. I wasn’t wronged. It was Boston’s right to trade me.

Plus, in a lot of ways, I actually think this was a good lesson. Not only for me, but for the league as a whole. And for the fans and the media, too, you know, just in terms of how they talk about guys changing teams. I was thinking about that last year with KD and his free agency — about how people gave him such a hard time for doing what he felt was best for him and his future. How they turned him into a villain, just for doing what was his right to do as a free agent in this league. Suddenly, it was, “Oh, he’s selfish,” or, “Oh, he’s a coward.” Suddenly, just for doing business on his end, and doing right by himself, he was portrayed as this bad guy.

But that’s what I think my trade can show people. I want them to see how my getting traded — just like that, without any warning — by the franchise that I scratched and clawed for, and bled for, and put my everything on the line for? That’s why people need to fix their perspective. It’s like, man — with a few exceptions, unless we’re free agents, 99 times out of 100, it’s the owners with the power. So when players are getting moved left and right, and having their lives changed without any say-so, and it’s no big deal … but then the handful of times it flips, and the player has control … then it’s some scandal? Just being honest, but — to me, that says a lot about where we are as a league, and even as a society. And it says a lot about how far we still have to go.

And like I said, there’s no hard feelings. But I just hope that the next time a player leaves in free agency, and anybody wants to jump on him or write a critical story or a nasty tweet about him, maybe now they’ll think twice. Maybe they’ll look around the league, look at a case like mine, and remember that loyalty — it’s just a word. And it’s a powerful word if you want it to be. But man … when it comes to business, it ain’t nothing to count on.

At the same time, though, people gotta understand. Like, even with all of this being said … man … it still hurt. It still hurt bad. And I hope people can understand that when I say it hurt, it isn’t directed at anyone. I’m not saying I was hurt by anyone, or wronged by anyone, or betrayed. I’m just saying, man, I’m only human. I may act like a tough guy on the court. And I may seem like I have ice in my veins when I’m competing. But at the same time — it ain’t ice, really. I got blood and I got a heart like everyone else.

PHOTO BY JASON MILLER/GETTY IMAGES

And so when I say this hurts, man — just know that it isn’t because of anything anyone else did. It’s only because of something I did.

I fell in love with Boston.

When the Celtics traded for me, I knew what it was. I knew the role I was being brought in to play — the same role I had played my entire NBA career. “Scoring guard, who can play some point.” “Instant offense off the bench.” “Sixth man.” This was already my third stop in four years, and that’s not a career path that happens to anyone’s franchise player, or point guard of the future. That just wasn’t how the league saw me. And I knew that.

And when I came over in the trade, I think Celtics fans knew what it was, too. They knew that I was being brought in as part of a deep rebuilding process, and that this wasn’t a time to be thinking playoffs or nothing. These were supposed to be some transitional years. You know: Pile up some assets. Find some cheap young talent. And yeah — probably lose a bunch.

Or at least that’s what everyone was telling us.

And I think that’s why I got along so well with the city of Boston, and why we connected with each other like we did. All my life, all I’d been doing was winning, and playing great basketball. But now, suddenly, as a pro, people were telling me that I had to be a bench player — and that the best I could hope for was to be the scorer on a rebuilding team. And it’s kind of similar for this era of Celtics: As long as the C’s had been around, all they’d done was win, and play great basketball. But now, suddenly, people were telling their fans that there was going to be a rebuild, and that they were going to be a lottery team for a while. And it’s almost like me and the city, my Celtics teams and these Celtics fans, we both shared the same heart, that same mentality. We both just wanted to win — now — and neither of us had any time for our critics. It was like, Man, fuck the lottery.

And I think it just sort of developed into this special thing, this special connection and moment. Everyone’s got their numbers and statistics all crunched — and all these experts, man, they think they have this entire league figured out. But they ain’t never figured me right. And they ain’t never figured the importance of having a winning culture — from the fans, to the players, to the coaches, to the front office, all the way up to the top. And we had that here. This was the first place, the first organization, the first group of fans in the league that didn’t take one look at me, take one look at my size, and put me into the same role as always. The Boston Celtics let me have a chance to be great. And I’ll never forget that.

And that’s why, you know — people ask me a lot about the playoffs last year. About how, even after my sister Chyna passed, I still went out there in Game 1 vs. Chicago and played. But what’s crazy is, the original reason I was going to play, was actually a little different from the reason I ended up playing. At first I thought I was going to play because, honestly, that’s just my mindset, when it comes to basketball. With basketball, I guess it’s just always been, like — no matter what I’d be going through in life … I’ve always known I can go to a basketball court. All I have to do is find one, and I’ll know I’m going to be fine for however long I’m on that court. Because that’s what basketball has always been for me, through my life’s ups and downs. It shields me from everything that I’m going through in life.

PHOTO BY MADDIE MEYER/GETTY IMAGES

And when I arrived at the arena that night, after Chyna had passed — I was thinking, O.K., I just need that to happen. I need this court to be my shield tonight, I need this court to help me forget. But when I got out there? Man, it’s one of those things … I can’t even describe it. The applause that I got, I can still hear it. People had these signs they made, and I can still see them: THIS IS FOR CHYNA. WE <3 ISAIAH. That sort of thing. Then they did a moment of silence, the whole arena, in Chyna’s honor. And it was like … man. I just realized, in that moment, that I didn’t need the court to shield me. I didn’t need to block it all out, and pretend I wasn’t grieving. I didn’t have to be alone in this. The whole arena was right there with me. Honestly, it felt like the whole city of Boston was with me.

And at that point, you know, I think it just kind of hit me, like — of course I’ve gotta play. First of all, I’m going to do it for Chyna, and for my family. But then I’m also going to do it for my city. ’Cause what they’re showing me right now, is all I needed tonight: to know I’m not alone. They’re showing me that they’re going through the same thing I’m going through right now. They’re showing me that I’m one of them, and that we’re in this together. So let’s be in this together.

And for two and a half years, man, we were.

I’mma just say this here, point-blank, to get it over with — and then you can go ahead and post it on whatever bulletin boards you want to: You are not going to want to mess with the Cavs this year. This is going to be a great year to be a Cavs fan, a great year. And I’m excited.

From a basketball perspective, me on the Cavs is a match made in heaven. If you’ve watched any Celtics games last year, then you know how many times I would have to go through double and even triple teams, just to get my shot off. It ended up working fine for us — guys played great, and my shot was falling. But this year … man, it’s not even going to be a thing. You really going to throw three guys on me, when I’m sharing a court with the best basketball player on the planet? Nah, I don’t think so.

PHOTO BY GREG M. COOPER/USA TODAY SPORTS

And that’s just LeBron. I look up and down this roster, and all I see is guys I can’t wait to play with: Kevin Love (reunited with my old AAU teammate!), Tristan Thompson, JR Smith, Iman Shumpert … it’s no accident to me that these guys have won the East three years running. And now add me to the mix, and D. Rose, and my guy Jae? This roster, man — it’s just stacked. Cavs fans, let’s get ready to rock and roll.

Of course, being on the team the East runs through now … I won’t lie, it’s some mixed emotions. Because that was our goal in Boston for so long — get through the Cavs, and win the East. And I know that’s still Boston’s goal. But now, it’s like, I’m the one who has to stop them from reaching it. And that’s tough. Because come playoff time, if and when we have to face the Celtics … I don’t know, it’s hard to explain. But that won’t just be “the team I used to be on.” That’s my old team. The elite offense, the 30-some national TV games, the becoming a place where free agents want to come and play — I feel like I helped build that. I helped create that.

And come playoffs, all of a sudden, it’ll be like, O.K., now destroy it.

It’s sad, man. It’s just sad.

But I didn’t come to Cleveland to lose.

Like I said, when the trade news broke, I got a lot of messages. They had my texts, IG, Twitter, voicemail, you name it, just blowing up. But there was one message in particular, out of all of them, that really stuck with me. It was from Tom Brady.

What’s up, IT, I heard about the news. You good?

I’m alright. I mean, it’s crazy. It’s a cold game.

Yes it is. Best of luck. You’re gonna do great. Keep in touch.

It wasn’t about what he said, exactly — though it was cool for him to say all that, no doubt. But it was more just everything it meant, I think, that stuck with me. To be getting a personal message like that from someone like Tom, who is such a Boston sports legend … I mean, it was bittersweet.

At first, honestly, it stung a little. I look at a career like Tom’s with the Patriots — and that’s exactly the kind of career that I had hoped to be building here with the Celtics: Being this low draft pick … coming in without acclaim … and then — through hard work, and determination, and some talent that maybe people had overlooked — just starting to win, and win, and win. And then establishing a legacy of winning. And then staying in Boston, winning titles and competing like hell, for the rest of my career — until I was considered one of the all-time Boston greats. That’s the career that I had started to map out for myself. In my mind, I wanted to be the Celtics version of Brady and Ortiz. I wanted this next era of Celtics basketball to go down in history — and I wanted to go down in Boston sports history with it. So when I got that text from Tom, you know, there was part of me that felt a little down.

But then I thought about the text some more … and I think I changed my perspective a little. I think I realized that, like, Yo — that’s Tom Fucking Brady. And I was only here for two and a half years. Tom Brady isn’t sending a text like that to guys who played in Boston for only two and a half years — unless they did something very special. So maybe, I don’t know … maybe that’s something to be proud of. And maybe, my time here … even if, in the end, I guess it wasn’t quite what I’d dreamed it would be — maybe it still meant something to some people.

So I guess that’s where my head’s at right now. I’m still hurting, and I’m still sad to go. And I’m sure I’ll be missing my Celtics family for quite some time. But I’m just going to go to Cleveland now, and do what I do. I’m going to play my guts out. It might not be the career that I dreamed of having last year, or even last month — but when you think about it, that’s kind of been my career from the start. It’s never been the dream come true, and it’s never been what you expect. It’s just been me.

And maybe that’s the answer to all of this, you know what I’m saying? Like, yeah, I’ll never be Tom Brady now. And I’ll never be David Ortiz. I’ll never be Bill Russell, or Paul Pierce, or Kevin Garnett, or Larry Bird. But whether I would have without this trade, or I wouldn’t have — I still like to imagine one thing.

I like to imagine that sometime not long from now, somewhere in Boston, someone is going to be a parent, talking basketball to their kid. And their kid is going to ask them, point-blank like kids do, you know, “Yo — why you become a Celtics fan?”

And that parent, man, they’re going to think back to themselves — really think on it. And then they’re going to smile, and tell the truth.

“I saw Isaiah Thomas play.”

That would make me very happy. For me, I think, that’d be enough.

ISAIAH THOMAS / CONTRIBUTOR

This Is for Boston Newit-230x105

bob

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by **swish** Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:16 pm

For his sake - I hope he is as good as ever - for our sake - heaven help us if he is.

swish

by **bobc33** Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:28 pm

Makes us remember players are human. Can't wait for his first visit back to Boston I'm predicting he will get a huge standing ovation when introduced.

by **RosalieTCeltics** Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:32 pm

This is a tough pill to swallow. This kid gave us all that was asked of him and even more. Just business, we are supposed to believe. Where does compassion and loyalty come in? I hope you did the right thing Danny because I am going to miss the hell out of him

by **NYCelt** Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:55 pm

A class act.

Short-time Celtic player; he'll be a long-time Celtic favorite.

by **kdp59** Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:55 pm

man, that was a tough one to read there.

My head says IT will never reach the levels he did here again, his height will compound with age soon to diminish his skills, as it has with all small players in modern times. That paying IT max or near max money would be a bad move long term. That Danny made the right move, no matter how tough it was ( and yes I think it was a tough for Danny to trade Thomas).

but my heart says you couldn't ask for another player with more heart or who WANTED to be in Boston (maybe since KG cam over).

like I said, a tough piece to read.

by **jrleftfoot** Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:26 pm

It broke my heart when they traded him. You`ll never hear another critical word out of my mouth about Ray Allen. The team has been gutted. Thomas , Bradley , Crowder. Never mind Kelly, Amir , Gerald etc. Ainge brought in some talented guys. We shall see what he has wrought.

by **Shamrock1000** Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:47 pm

Damn, that was a tough read. What an awesome dude though. Totally understood Celtics/Boston history, and where his place in it could have been. I'm with jrleftfoot - that trade was a heart-breaker. Swish said it so well:

For his sake - I hope he is as good as ever - for our sake - heaven help us if he is.

Good luck IT...

by **dboss** Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:59 pm

Yes this is the business of basketball.

When a player admits that it hurts, it is the defining connection that IT felt with the Celtics.

When Danny traded Perkins it was reported that Perkins cried. Imagine that? A player like that crying because he was traded by the Boston Celtics.

Fans should never criticize a player for moving on his own.

No doubt IT exceeded our wildest expectations.

Dboss

by **RosalieTCeltics** Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:15 pm

Just one thing, and I know I am the biggest baby here, but it appears that Danny is really taking the hit here when for years we all knew that he was collecting his "chips" to bring in that player who will help put them over the top.

Mu only problem here is that I wish IT had the chance to prove that he was that guy, working with the others signed to move us forward. It just was too good to pass up for him I guess.

The answer to the question of "was it worth it" remains to be answered. Sad that it comes down to this. But we have to look forward not back.

I hope IT has the exact same kind of a season, just because he deserves the best he can get. That will mean I am rooting against the Celtics and that is not what I mean, just IT, no one else!!!!!

by **hawksnestbeach** Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:24 pm

IT has heart and grit, DA has balls and vision. Hawk

by **wideclyde** Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:46 pm

Tough read except for the part where Thomas says that he had no idea that a trade might be coming along. I say this because Boston trading for Kyrie had been a huge topic for about three weeks prior to the deal being agreed upon.

Can't believe that a smart guy like Thomas could/would not have seen that if only to make salaries work that he would have to be included. He should have also known that he and Irving could not have co-existed in the starting lineup in Boston.

Either way his star shined in his two plus years in green. Good luck in Cleveland.

by **swedeinestonia** Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:38 am

He gave the Celtics his all and it is unfortunate that he had to go. Same goes for Crowder and Bradley though and Bradley got traded to Detroit, not a contender. IT landed in a good place (will compete for a title this year and possibly the next few), will be interesting to see how the "Brinks truck" situation works out for him, I am not so sure he will be able to get that max contract.

by **fierce** Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:04 am

I think that "Brinks truck" comment really scared off Ainge, especially after IT's torn labrum.

by **mrkleen09** Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:03 am

I love IT. My son wore headbands all year last year claiming to be Issiah Thomas. Big fans in this house. BUT, we root for the name on the front of the shirt, not the back - and in the big picture each move Danny has made is another getting us closer to banner #18.

IT was a 6th man - who the Celtics bought cheap and who turned in one of the most remarkable seasons in Celtics and NBA history. He is a small guy with a big heart and overachieved to levels not seen before. Just the kind of guy the City of Boston likes. BUT, as an asset - you need to sell high. That is what Danny just did.

In the timeline of the summer, I think if this deal came around in June - you would still have Avery Bradley on this team. But with no other deals looming, DA made that move to get some size and open up cap room for next summer.

I think IT comes back, has a great year and helps Cleveland to one more Finals run. But in 5 years, when the Celtics have a new banner or two hanging, you will look back and respect the move Ainge made here.

by **Shamrock1000** Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:22 am

mrkleen09 wrote:I love IT. My son wore headbands all year last year claiming to be Issiah Thomas. Big fans in this house. BUT, we root for the name on the front of the shirt, not the back - and in the big picture each move Danny has made is another getting us closer to banner #18.

IT was a 6th man - who the Celtics bought cheap and who turned in one of the most remarkable seasons in Celtics and NBA history. He is a small guy with a big heart and overachieved to levels not seen before. Just the kind of guy the City of Boston likes. BUT, as an asset - you need to sell high. That is what Danny just did.

In the timeline of the summer, I think if this deal came around in June - you would still have Avery Bradley on this team. But with no other deals looming, DA made that move to get some size and open up cap room for next summer.

I think IT comes back, has a great year and helps Cleveland to one more Finals run. But in 5 years, when the Celtics have a new banner or two hanging, you will look back and respect the move Ainge made here.

Don't agree IT is/was a 6th man. Over the course of 2 seasons he proved he can deliver ALL game, night in, night out, all season long. That is a star, not a 6th man. Also disagree that Danny "sold high". If it had been a straight swap of IT for Kyrie, or even IT and Jae for Kyrie, then you might have a point, but throwing in the Nets pick and another 2nd rounder is not what I would call "selling high". Not saying it wasn't the right move - it may turn out to be genius - but the Celtics paid a seriously high price for Kyrie. Especially when you look at what other teams have paid recently for similar "star" players, e.g. George, Butler, and Cousins. This is a huge gamble for Danny. This, and trading down in the draft this summer, will largely define his legacy. Of course I'm rooting for him, but this is a gamble.

by **mrkleen09** Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:37 am

He came to Boston as a 6th man. That was his role in Phoenix and that was his role in Sacramento - he says it himself in the tribute above

"...When the Celtics traded for me, I knew what it was. I knew the role I was being brought in to play — the same role I had played my entire NBA career. “Scoring guard, who can play some point.” “Instant offense off the bench.” “Sixth man.” This was already my third stop in four years, and that’s not a career path that happens to anyone’s franchise player, or point guard of the future. That just wasn’t how the league saw me. And I knew that."

IT worked hard and got the opportunity to become more than a 6th man here in Boston, and he disproved the above impression that the league had of him. But that in no way changes the fact that when he came to Boston, no one saw him as a starter, never mind a star.

As for the selling high part - this thread is about IT - so the selling high comment is in context to Thomas. IT will likely never have a better season than he did last year, and if that is the case - Danny SOLD HIGH. Get it?

As for the comparisons to other players who recently moved. Paul George is a one year rental, so comparing apples and oranges. Cousins is a headcase with no proven success beyond getting thrown out of big games and being a team cancer. So I guess it comes down to Butler vs Kyrie

#1 - you have to have a willing partner in order to make a deal, that is GM 101. Danny has alluded to the fact that he offered a better package than the one that brought Kyrie here for Jimmy Butler and the Bulls were not interested. Nothing you can do about that.

Add that Kyrie is 2 years younger, a better shooter and better scorer and a proven winner (unlike Butler who quit down the stretch in game 7) and I dont see how this is a huge gamble in any way. But different strokes I guess.

by **gyso** Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:48 am

mrkleen09 wrote:He came to Boston as a 6th man. That was his role in Phoenix and that was his role in Sacramento - he says it himself in the tribute above

"...When the Celtics traded for me, I knew what it was. I knew the role I was being brought in to play — the same role I had played my entire NBA career. “Scoring guard, who can play some point.” “Instant offense off the bench.” “Sixth man.” This was already my third stop in four years, and that’s not a career path that happens to anyone’s franchise player, or point guard of the future. That just wasn’t how the league saw me. And I knew that."

IT worked hard and got the opportunity to become more than a 6th man here in Boston, and he disproved the above impression that the league had of him. But that in no way changes the fact that when he came to Boston, no one saw him as a starter, never mind a star.

As for the selling high part - this thread is about IT - so the selling high comment is in context to Thomas. IT will likely never have a better season than he did last year, and if that is the case - Danny SOLD HIGH. Get it?

As for the comparisons to other players who recently moved. Paul George is a one year rental, so comparing apples and oranges. Cousins is a headcase with no proven success beyond getting thrown out of big games and being a team cancer. So I guess it comes down to Butler vs Kyrie

#1 - you have to have a willing partner in order to make a deal, that is GM 101. Danny has alluded to the fact that he offered a better package than the one that brought Kyrie here for Jimmy Butler and the Bulls were not interested. Nothing you can do about that.

Add that Kyrie is 2 years younger, a better shooter and better scorer and a proven winner (unlike Butler who quit down the stretch in game 7) and I dont see how this is a huge gamble in any way. But different strokes I guess.

+1

by **Berlin-T** Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:13 pm

After reading IT's piece I can only say,
he's one hell of a "Mensch"
Good luck to him in Cleveland
and oh yeah, go Celtics!

by **Shamrock1000** Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:31 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:He came to Boston as a 6th man. That was his role in Phoenix and that was his role in Sacramento - he says it himself in the tribute above

"...When the Celtics traded for me, I knew what it was. I knew the role I was being brought in to play — the same role I had played my entire NBA career. “Scoring guard, who can play some point.” “Instant offense off the bench.” “Sixth man.” This was already my third stop in four years, and that’s not a career path that happens to anyone’s franchise player, or point guard of the future. That just wasn’t how the league saw me. And I knew that."

IT worked hard and got the opportunity to become more than a 6th man here in Boston, and he disproved the above impression that the league had of him. But that in no way changes the fact that when he came to Boston, no one saw him as a starter, never mind a star.

As for the selling high part - this thread is about IT - so the selling high comment is in context to Thomas. IT will likely never have a better season than he did last year, and if that is the case - Danny SOLD HIGH. Get it?

As for the comparisons to other players who recently moved. Paul George is a one year rental, so comparing apples and oranges. Cousins is a headcase with no proven success beyond getting thrown out of big games and being a team cancer. So I guess it comes down to Butler vs Kyrie

#1 - you have to have a willing partner in order to make a deal, that is GM 101. Danny has alluded to the fact that he offered a better package than the one that brought Kyrie here for Jimmy Butler and the Bulls were not interested. Nothing you can do about that.

Add that Kyrie is 2 years younger, a better shooter and better scorer and a proven winner (unlike Butler who quit down the stretch in game 7) and I dont see how this is a huge gamble in any way. But different strokes I guess.

As you say, IT's play on the court over the last couple of years disproved the wrong impression that he was just a 6th man, so I am glad we can agree on that. Regarding "selling high" - no, I don't "get it". It is pretty clear both sides were concerned about IT's hip, and this clearly affected/lessened his value, so Danny did not "sell high". IT had a better season last year than Kyrie. He just did. Kyrie may be taller and younger, but IT had a better season. That is not a knock on Kyrie - IT's season was amazing, it is hard to be better (unless you have defensive prowess to match, which Kyrie doesn't). Yes Kyrie is taller, but so far that fact has not translated to more effectiveness on the court. Yes, he is younger, but IT is 28, not 32 - he still has at least a few good seasons left. Olympic sprinters, which rely almost entirely on innate athleticism and explosiveness, often compete into their mid 30s. I'll even concede that despite IT's superior season last year, Kyrie is a better player, both for now and for the future. He probably is. But is the difference between the two equivalent to Jae Crowder, the Net's lottery pick, a promising big man, and a second round pick? That's the part I'm not sure of. As for previous players moved, you never really have apples to apples, but that doesn't mean you can't compare. All those players were considered stars, and went for MUCH less. Kyrie demanded to be traded, and it was known that he was going to refuse to show up to camp if he wasn't. So there were circumstances surrounding KI that would suggest Cleveland was not negotiating from a position of power, yet they made out like they were.

The deal may very well work out. IT's hip may be a real problem; I suspect it is, and that it played a bigger part in this than Danny is letting on.Kyrie may learn to play D and excel in Brad's system even more than IT did. But I just don't think it's a no-brainer. There is risk, and if there is risk, its a gamble. For example, the Celtics could take a step back this year. If they did, it would be natural for fans and media to keep asking if the trade was a mistake (especially if IT and Cleveland excel). How will Kyrie react? Maybe he ups his game. Or maybe the intense scrutiny of Boston fans and media gets to him, and he shuts down (he reportedly would go days without speaking to teammates in Cleveland), and detroys team chemistry. Then, unhappy with the way he is percieved in Boston, he bolts as soon as he can. The scenario I just painted probably won't happen, but it is possible. So, yeah, I still think its a gamble, hopefully one that pays off. Different strokes.

by **atcross** Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:36 pm

Any agent representing a player coming to the Celts has a professional obligation to bluntly tell his client the following: I've got good news and bad news. The good news is you're going to the most storied franchise in the NBA, with a terrific staff, and great fans. You're going to professional basketball heaven. The bad news is Danny Ainge would trade his own mother if he thought it made the team better. Even Paul Pierce was traded. Be prepared to be traded at any time. No one is ever untradeable to Danny. Never forget that.

by **mrkleen09** Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:45 pm

Shamrock1000 wrote:

As you say, IT's play on the court over the last couple of years disproved the wrong impression that he was just a 6th man, so I am glad we can agree on that. Regarding "selling high" - no, I don't "get it". It is pretty clear both sides were concerned about IT's hip, and this clearly affected/lessened his value, so Danny did not "sell high". IT had a better season last year than Kyrie. He just did. Kyrie may be taller and younger, but IT had a better season. That is not a knock on Kyrie - IT's season was amazing, it is hard to be better (unless you have defensive prowess to match, which Kyrie doesn't). Yes Kyrie is taller, but so far that fact has not translated to more effectiveness on the court. Yes, he is younger, but IT is 28, not 32 - he still has at least a few good seasons left. Olympic sprinters, which rely almost entirely on innate athleticism and explosiveness, often compete into their mid 30s. I'll even concede that despite IT's superior season last year, Kyrie is a better player, both for now and for the future. He probably is. But is the difference between the two equivalent to Jae Crowder, the Net's lottery pick, a promising big man, and a second round pick? That's the part I'm not sure of. As for previous players moved, you never really have apples to apples, but that doesn't mean you can't compare. All those players were considered stars, and went for MUCH less. Kyrie demanded to be traded, and it was known that he was going to refuse to show up to camp if he wasn't. So there were circumstances surrounding KI that would suggest Cleveland was not negotiating from a position of power, yet they made out like they were.

The deal may very well work out. IT's hip may be a real problem; I suspect it is, and that it played a bigger part in this than Danny is letting on.Kyrie may learn to play D and excel in Brad's system even more than IT did. But I just don't think it's a no-brainer. There is risk, and if there is risk, its a gamble. For example, the Celtics could take a step back this year. If they did, it would be natural for fans and media to keep asking if the trade was a mistake (especially if IT and Cleveland excel). How will Kyrie react? Maybe he ups his game. Or maybe the intense scrutiny of Boston fans and media gets to him, and he shuts down (he reportedly would go days without speaking to teammates in Cleveland), and detroys team chemistry. Then, unhappy with the way he is percieved in Boston, he bolts as soon as he can. The scenario I just painted probably won't happen, but it is possible. So, yeah, I still think its a gamble, hopefully one that pays off. Different strokes.

Unless you know what the discussions were like between Danny and the Pacers and Bulls, you have no idea what was and was not offered. In addition, those deals were done by the time the Kyrie deal came to light, so speaking about them in the absence of facts isnt productive. If we take DA at his word, he offered more than the Pacers and Bulls ended up getting - but whatever. That was water under the bridge when the Kyrie deal became a reality.

Knowing the Celtics primary target all summer was always Gordon Hayward and they drafted Jayson Tatum - Crowder was always going to go. So then it comes down to a damaged IT and a draft pick (one that is potentially 5, 6, 7, 8 in a draft with only a few marquee players) for Kyrie. I love IT and Jae, but still see this deal as a major win for the Celtics.

I agree they are likely to take a step back this year, but last year was fools gold anyway. The Warriors are not ready to give it up, the Cavs have another run in them, and the Celtics young nucleus needs playing time and maturity. The Celtics wont be ready to really content for a year or two and at THAT POINT, IT will be 31.

That was the point of this trade - to have a star who is coming into his prime when the rest of the cast is also ready to make a run.

by **swish** Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:21 pm

Shamrock1000 wrote:
mrkleen09 wrote:He came to Boston as a 6th man. That was his role in Phoenix and that was his role in Sacramento - he says it himself in the tribute above

"...When the Celtics traded for me, I knew what it was. I knew the role I was being brought in to play — the same role I had played my entire NBA career. “Scoring guard, who can play some point.” “Instant offense off the bench.” “Sixth man.” This was already my third stop in four years, and that’s not a career path that happens to anyone’s franchise player, or point guard of the future. That just wasn’t how the league saw me. And I knew that."

IT worked hard and got the opportunity to become more than a 6th man here in Boston, and he disproved the above impression that the league had of him. But that in no way changes the fact that when he came to Boston, no one saw him as a starter, never mind a star.

As for the selling high part - this thread is about IT - so the selling high comment is in context to Thomas. IT will likely never have a better season than he did last year, and if that is the case - Danny SOLD HIGH. Get it?

As for the comparisons to other players who recently moved. Paul George is a one year rental, so comparing apples and oranges. Cousins is a headcase with no proven success beyond getting thrown out of big games and being a team cancer. So I guess it comes down to Butler vs Kyrie

#1 - you have to have a willing partner in order to make a deal, that is GM 101. Danny has alluded to the fact that he offered a better package than the one that brought Kyrie here for Jimmy Butler and the Bulls were not interested. Nothing you can do about that.

Add that Kyrie is 2 years younger, a better shooter and better scorer and a proven winner (unlike Butler who quit down the stretch in game 7) and I dont see how this is a huge gamble in any way. But different strokes I guess.

As you say, IT's play on the court over the last couple of years disproved the wrong impression that he was just a 6th man, so I am glad we can agree on that. Regarding "selling high" - no, I don't "get it". It is pretty clear both sides were concerned about IT's hip, and this clearly affected/lessened his value, so Danny did not "sell high". IT had a better season last year than Kyrie. He just did. Kyrie may be taller and younger, but IT had a better season. That is not a knock on Kyrie - IT's season was amazing, it is hard to be better (unless you have defensive prowess to match, which Kyrie doesn't). Yes Kyrie is taller, but so far that fact has not translated to more effectiveness on the court. Yes, he is younger, but IT is 28, not 32 - he still has at least a few good seasons left. Olympic sprinters, which rely almost entirely on innate athleticism and explosiveness, often compete into their mid 30s. I'll even concede that despite IT's superior season last year, Kyrie is a better player, both for now and for the future. He probably is. But is the difference between the two equivalent to Jae Crowder, the Net's lottery pick, a promising big man, and a second round pick? That's the part I'm not sure of. As for previous players moved, you never really have apples to apples, but that doesn't mean you can't compare. All those players were considered stars, and went for MUCH less. Kyrie demanded to be traded, and it was known that he was going to refuse to show up to camp if he wasn't. So there were circumstances surrounding KI that would suggest Cleveland was not negotiating from a position of power, yet they made out like they were.

The deal may very well work out. IT's hip may be a real problem; I suspect it is, and that it played a bigger part in this than Danny is letting on.Kyrie may learn to play D and excel in Brad's system even more than IT did. But I just don't think it's a no-brainer. There is risk, and if there is risk, its a gamble. For example, the Celtics could take a step back this year. If they did, it would be natural for fans and media to keep asking if the trade was a mistake (especially if IT and Cleveland excel). How will Kyrie react? Maybe he ups his game. Or maybe the intense scrutiny of Boston fans and media gets to him, and he shuts down (he reportedly would go days without speaking to teammates in Cleveland), and detroys team chemistry. Then, unhappy with the way he is percieved in Boston, he bolts as soon as he can. The scenario I just painted probably won't happen, but it is possible. So, yeah, I still think its a gamble, hopefully one that pays off. Different strokes.

Shamrock

Many nice opinions on this subject by various posters.
Per your below comment.

" But I just don't think it's a no-brainer. There is risk, and if there is risk, its a gamble. For example, the Celtics could take a step back this year. If they did, it would be natural for fans and media to keep asking if the trade was a mistake (especially if IT and Cleveland excel). "

The part that bothers me the most about this trade is the possibility that the Cavs came out of the trade with a better chance then the Celtics to win the Eastern conference this coming year. As far as a year from now - time to evaluate then. This you covered with your bracketed above comment. As far as the future beyond this year - that's when the ifs become more frequent. Like Sam used to say - See me then.

Swish

by **NYCelt** Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:35 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:I love IT. My son wore headbands all year last year claiming to be Issiah Thomas. Big fans in this house. BUT, we root for the name on the front of the shirt, not the back - and in the big picture each move Danny has made is another getting us closer to banner #18.

IT was a 6th man - who the Celtics bought cheap and who turned in one of the most remarkable seasons in Celtics and NBA history. He is a small guy with a big heart and overachieved to levels not seen before. Just the kind of guy the City of Boston likes. BUT, as an asset - you need to sell high. That is what Danny just did.

In the timeline of the summer, I think if this deal came around in June - you would still have Avery Bradley on this team. But with no other deals looming, DA made that move to get some size and open up cap room for next summer.

I think IT comes back, has a great year and helps Cleveland to one more Finals run. But in 5 years, when the Celtics have a new banner or two hanging, you will look back and respect the move Ainge made here.

Kleen,

Outstanding post. Well-written and well-reasoned.

Even if you're among the fans that have some reservations about Irving and the deal, and I'm one, you make an excellent point. Impossible for me to debate with you on this.

Regards

by **mrkleen09** Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:29 pm

Thank you and thanks to Shamrock as well.

In full transparency, I too am worried about the unknowns of the trade and IT is such a great kid. It is sad to see him go.

But when you have a chance to trade in an overachieving vehicle for a full blown luxury model, I think you do it.

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