This Is for Boston

mrkleen09 wrote:Thank you and thanks to Shamrock as well.

In full transparency, I too am worried about the unknowns of the trade and IT is such a great kid.  It is sad to see him go.  

But when you have a chance to trade in an overachieving vehicle for a full blown luxury model, I think you do it.

Cool Kleen. Didn't mean to argue with you specifically, just pointing out that there are a lot of unkowns here, and that none of us really know how it is going to play out. Clearly I have a softspot for IT, but, as I said in another post, I sure as hell hope Kyrie becomes the last Celtic to ever wear number 11.

There seem to be two completely separate questions going on here. One is whether the IT for KI swap is a good deal. We will never know unless someone can view a parallel universe.

The other question is whether we have a better chance of overtaking the Cavs this year. That would seem obvious, regardless of IT or KI. Last year we were beaten badly by the Cavs but we were mostly without our best, by far, scorer for most of the series (all if you figure he was playing hurt.) So this year, whether we have IT or KI to score, we also have Hayward. Last year after IT, it was Bradley, Crowder, Horford, Johnson. This year Smart (or Brown), Hayward, Morris, Horford. That, on paper at least, looks like a more potent line up to me.

atcross wrote:There seem to be two completely separate questions going on here. One is whether the IT for KI swap is a good deal. We will never know unless someone can view a parallel universe.

The other question is whether we have a better chance of overtaking the Cavs this year. That would seem obvious, regardless of IT or KI. Last year we were beaten badly by the Cavs but we were mostly without our best, by far, scorer for most of the series (all if you figure he was playing hurt.) So this year, whether we have IT or KI to score, we also have Hayward. Last year after IT, it was Bradley, Crowder, Horford, Johnson. This year Smart (or Brown), Hayward, Morris, Horford. That, on paper at least, looks like a more potent line up to me.

I think you are saying that if we consider IT for KI roughly a wash for this year, then the addition of Hayward and Morris means we will have a more potent offense. Fair points. Don't forget though, that we also lost two outstanding defenders (Jae and Avery), and Cleveland gained at least one outstanding defender (Jae). Also, our bench last year was pretty good, and was a sterngth for us - this year it is a total unknown. So, I hope you are right, but it might be a little early to tell.

That being said, most folks believe this trade will shift the balance not this year, but two or three years down the road, i.e. that Kyrie's age is better aligned with the development of Brown, Tatum, and Smart. This of course assumes these guys pan out as expected. Note also that Big Al will be getting a little long in the tooth by that time.

Shamrock1000 wrote:

atcross wrote:There seem to be two completely separate questions going on here. One is whether the IT for KI swap is a good deal. We will never know unless someone can view a parallel universe.

The other question is whether we have a better chance of overtaking the Cavs this year. That would seem obvious, regardless of IT or KI. Last year we were beaten badly by the Cavs but we were mostly without our best, by far, scorer for most of the series (all if you figure he was playing hurt.) So this year, whether we have IT or KI to score, we also have Hayward. Last year after IT, it was Bradley, Crowder, Horford, Johnson. This year Smart (or Brown), Hayward, Morris, Horford. That, on paper at least, looks like a more potent line up to me.

I think you are saying that if we consider IT for KI roughly a wash for this year, then the addition of Hayward and Morris means we will have a more potent offense. Fair points. Don't forget though, that we also lost two outstanding defenders (Jae and Avery), and Cleveland gained at least one outstanding defender (Jae). Also, our bench last year was pretty good, and was a sterngth for us - this year it is a total unknown. So, I hope you are right, but it might be a little early to tell.

That being said, most folks believe this trade will shift the balance not this year, but two or three years down the road, i.e. that Kyrie's age is better aligned with the development of Brown, Tatum, and Smart. This of course assumes these guys pan out as expected. Note also that Big Al will be getting a little long in the tooth by that time.

Well the main thing is that after IT we didn't have a single go to player. So even with him healthy our offense was very limited. Teams were starting to recognize that as the season ended. And at his height IT was challenged to pass out of doubles. Smart and Brown are both good defenders so while there may be a drop off without AB and Jae, I don't see that drop off as being huge. But the main thing is Hayward. With a healthy PG/scorer and Hayward I think we would have done much better against the Cavs last year than we did. As for the bench all we really lost is KO. Brown, Rozier, and Smart are all back, though one of them will probably start. But from what I saw of Tatum in the summer, and all of the press saying he is the most NBA ready of the draft, I think we're fine there.

This coming year - Celts vs Cavs - major Roster changes made since the end of the past season involving players that played at least 1100 minutes last year.

The Celts added Irving, Morris, Hayward and Baynes for a total of 66 points per game - and lost Bradley, Crowder, Thomas, Johnson, Olynyk, and Jerebko for a total of 78.4 points per game.
The Cavs added Thomas, Crowder, Green and Rose for a total of 70.0 points per game - and lost Irving for a total of 25.2 points per game.
The Celts added 2 players that shot 33.3% plus from beyond the arc - and lost 5 that bettered 33.3% from 3 point land.
The Cavs added 2 that hit on 33.3% plus - While loosing only only one.
There will be a lot of pressure on the shoulders of a very youthful bench in match ups next year vs the Cavs.

Swish

Is Jae really that good of a defender? I know he's fairly rugged and can cover 2 positions, but when Milsap was going off a few years ago, Jae couldn't stop him, can he stop or come near stopping a Durant or Lebron? I liked Jae, but his defensive prowess was never all NBA level.

dboss wrote:Yes this is the business of basketball.

When a player admits that it hurts, it  is the defining connection that IT felt with the Celtics.


When Danny traded Perkins it was reported that Perkins cried.  Imagine that? A player like that crying because he was traded by the Boston Celtics.


Fans should never criticize a player for moving on his own.  


No doubt IT exceeded our wildest expectations.


Dboss

Loved the guy. Russ, Sam, Dennis and IT my favorites. Breaks my heart. Bet he cant wait to bust our ass. Can't much blame him.

swish wrote:This coming year - Celts vs Cavs  - major Roster changes made since the end of the past season involving players that played at least 1100 minutes last year.

  The Celts added Irving, Morris,  Hayward and Baynes for a total of 66 points per game - and lost Bradley, Crowder, Thomas, Johnson, Olynyk, and Jerebko for a total of 78.4 points per game.
 The Cavs added Thomas, Crowder, Green and Rose for a total of 70.0 points per game - and lost Irving for a total of 25.2 points per game.
 The Celts added 2 players that shot 33.3% plus from beyond the arc - and lost 5 that bettered 33.3% from 3 point land.
  The Cavs added 2 that hit on 33.3% plus - While loosing only only one.
  There will be a lot of pressure on the shoulders of a very youthful bench in match ups next year vs the Cavs.

  Swish

I think between bigger roles from Rozier, Smart and Brown, and with the additions of Tatum, Theis, Yabba and Ojeleye, we can more than make up the 12 points. Plus, the roster is not yet set....one more player to go,