It was not Okafor, but we still need some insurance at the center position.

I can see waiting to use the DPE, and can also see that an additional shooter could be used to fill the DPE salary space as our current bench scoring is very inconsistent. I also see that our rebounding is much improved over last season and that this improved rebounding is a very large part of being 22-4 after 26 games.

But, another center/big type guy is going to be needed as depth at some time this year. Ainge decided that it was not going to be Okafor, and this was a gamble (like all deals and non deals) that can easily be justified.

As well as Horford is playing and Baynes and Theis are supporting him, I do not see Morris or Yabusele capable of playing well enough around the rim to fill in if necessary.

Whether Ainge searches for such depth at center via the DPE route or by a vet minimum after the trade deadline, I would like to see the Cs find someone who can fill in behind Horford and Baynes.

Red Auerbach had Bill Russell at center for many, many years and you couldn't have a much better player, but he also always had more depth behind Russell than we may have right now behind Horford. My basketball idol, Wide Clyde Lovellette, was one such guy for about three seasons, and of course there were other similar guys during the golden age of Celtics championships.

Wide,

I thought Okafor would be a good solution to our obvious need for another big. In my amateur GM head, it would have been as the starting center. Oh well, whatever.

Certainly Danny (Why do we always say Danny, as if it's just him, and ignore the fact that there is a small staff in the GM office working on the roster?) is keeping an eye on things.

One scenario no-one has been bold enough to put out there is a next year item. Do we go after a solid big when Hayward is healthy? With Hayward back, we have more wings than we need and several that other teams would covet. Not advocating anything, but you wonder if it's a matter of going bigger and better than Okafor, because throwing Brown, Tatum, or (gasp!) Hayward into a trade deal brings you something special in return. The 800 pound gorilla standing in the corner; this year's team is proving you don't need all three of them. Before anyone throws darts my way, I'm not advocating that, and I can't wait to see all three play. It's merely among a host of options that I'm sure must get discussed in the course of business in the executive suite.

Now, I'm just thinking out loud, or at least in print. Betcha somebody wets themselves because of that last paragraph, though! Let's wait and see who.

Regards

NYCelt wrote:
One scenario no-one has been bold enough to put out there is a next year item. Do we go after a solid big when Hayward is healthy? With Hayward back, we have more wings than we need and several that other teams would covet. Not advocating anything, but you wonder if it's a matter of going bigger and better than Okafor, because throwing Brown, Tatum, or (gasp!) Hayward into a trade deal brings you something special in return. The 800 pound gorilla standing in the corner; this year's team is proving you don't need all three of them. Before anyone throws darts my way, I'm not advocating that, and I can't wait to see all three play. It's merely among a host of options that I'm sure must get discussed in the course of business in the executive suite.

Now, I'm just thinking out loud, or at least in print. Betcha somebody wets themselves because of that last paragraph, though! Let's wait and see who.

Regards

I almost wet myself but then realized what happens, happens.

Tatum could grow a few inches and do some weightlifting. Then he could be a power forward. Horford might have to get stronger and make the KG move back to center. Brown would have to keep his agility and speed, not bulk up or he'd have to move up a weight class to small forward.

I see your point there could be redundancy. Hayward would be the one to trade if Smart pans out and is worth whatever it takes. This is putting the cart ahead of the horse. It's mind boggling what could happen. A year ago today there were nine guys on the team who are now gone.

There's the phrase something has to give.

For this year finding one more big should be all Danny needs to do for a minimum. Horford has proven he is still fast enough to handle power forward. Find a center and there will be a trickle effect with no one run into the ground and everything can be lined up for the playoffs.

Theis is a Scott Pollard for center. You really don't want to go there against the truly big centers. It's not fair to him. Maybe he can become a Dave Cowens? Not right now yet. Morris and Yabusele, no way they can handle center. Semi is too short. Yes, Baynes is the only center. One more is not asking too much.

Don't we have some guy up in Maine that could drive down to Boston and help us out?

dboss

At 22-4, I don't actually see any glaring weakness in the Celtics. As the season progresses, our young guys should get better, our bench should get better, our starters should also get better. I'll bet Danny and company feel the same.

The reason to wait as long as we can to use the DPE is to see where we are in February. Maybe an injury takes out a starter or top rotation player for an extended time. Then we will have a hole that truly needs to be filled in.

Until then, it is a wait and see game.

gyso

dboss wrote:Don't we have some guy up in Maine that could drive down to Boston and help us out?

dboss

Maybe. As long as the moose haven't blocked the highway.

If so, just send the moose.

NYCelt if Ayton has the character and he might have the attributes, if he’s the next trandsendent big, I’d gladly trade the Lakers pick if it’s top 5 or the Sacto pick and Hayward and Smart or Rozier for a shot at Ayton, if he proves by end of this year he’s that good. Kyrie and the 2 J’s are untouchable, anyone else, if we can get that next big thing.....shit yeah I’d do it.

cowens/oldschool wrote:NYCelt if Ayton has the character and he might have the attributes, if he’s the next trandsendent big, I’d gladly trade the Lakers pick if it’s top 5 or the Sacto pick and Hayward and Smart or Rozier for a shot at Ayton, if he proves by end of this year he’s that good. Kyrie and the 2 J’s are untouchable, anyone else, if we can get that next big thing.....shit yeah I’d do it.

Cow,

Far too early, but Bagley and Ayton probably go 1 and 2. Ayton very well could step into an NBA starting role next year. Some argue Bagley is still building and may be the top long-term big. Both go before we get to pick unless we trade a significant talent. I wasn't saying I want to see Tatum, Brown or Irving traded, I just figured I'd go ahead and point out that Hayward's injury is proving that Hayward, Tatum and Brown make three, where two are needed. Without a doubt you can keep all three and win a championship. I was merely pointing out Boston could also pull a shocker and trade one to get a center. I suppose that could be a veteran or draft pick. In reality, no one is untouchable and I'm expressing a guess that at some point Ainge and company will either be asked by another team or entertain the thought of trading one of Brown, Tatum or Hayward to get their big and have a shot at another title. Pure speculation on my part, and also a little cage rattling, in that I expect rumors to fly along those lines in the future.

If we're drafting a center, the Laker pick pans out, and we can't trade up to the to top two, maybe we get a shot at Bamba (Texas) or Jackson, Jr. (Michigan State). Both of those have a good chance of going top 10, so we need a pretty high pick. Bamba has a well-rounded game, Jackson, Jr. is more of a defense oriented player.

But as to your original point; Ayton? Already looking like a smart choice. Size and skill.

Regards

or........

https://www.theringer.com/2017/12/7/16743900/deandre-ayton-arizona-blocks-nba-draft


always interesting takes there for sure

I do not see a top level big man other than maybe Davis worth trading for at this time in the Cs development and time line heading toward banner #18.

With that thought, I think that the Cs will find some mid range type of guy to go along with the many, and varied, wing players and Horford that we have to move forward with.  Perhaps a guy like O'Bryant from the Knicks would be a good example.

Having Horford and Baynes gives a decent base at the center position, but not enough depth.  No way can the team afford to pay a max level contract unless they get a full max level player in the center position.  We already have Harford and Hayward at max level money and will have to do the same for Irving after the 2019 season.  The Cs ownership wants to win, but they have never shown that they want to pay millions and millions and millions to the NBA's tax program either.

A young center with the Lakers pick is a good idea if that were to happen, but the team needs some assistance for this year because this year has turned into a year of extreme promise already.  2017-18 cannot be tossed aside like the past couple of years have been just to build toward the next title.  This season could be the year (also could not be the year) to make a run for #18.  The team's holes need to be addressed this season where in the past couple of seasons the holes could be "moved to the back burner" a little easier.

The 22-5 start is beyond what any of us anticipated, but the numbers are real enough almost at one third of the season (no more "small sample size" excuses) that help is needed around the basket so that games like last night (and the earlier loss to Detroit) stop happening because one big guy basically steals the game by himself because we cannot defend inside of 10 feet. This theory could be re-visited quickly as Drummond/Detroit is our next game.

Since the "trade that keeps on giving", we have not really been in rebuild mode. It's always been about the upgrade. (cue Beyonce) This is just barely the minimum number of bigs needed to compete. Everyone has to compete at their best every night for this to work. IT IS WORKING!

It would be difficult to replace all that Al gives to the team. IMO, you only trade Al for someone like Davis. There are only a few players in the NBA today that would engender serious debate about breaking up the core of the team with the best record in the NBA.

Baynes is proving to be exactly the kind of player (including money) that the Celtics have needed. He's big, strong, and hard to move. It would be easier to upgrade him but with whom? There just aren't many out there. He has clear limitations especially in terms of the space and pace offense that Brad uses. But he is effective in minutes played and the real question is why isn't he playing more?

Theis is liked by many. For his role, how do you upgrade him especially considering the $ involved? He really is a great addition to this team. He definitely should be getting more minutes given the situation.

Mercurial Morris is the big question mark on this team. When he is on he can be very productive but he is getting older, his game isn't going to get any better and in fact he has started his slide. We played well without him at the beginning of the season and the team has struggled some to incorporate him. To his credit, he is still good enuf to compete and make a difference (some nights but not all). While an important piece this season he is not part of the long term core. He is number one on my lists of players with skills and contract good enough to be included in a trade. (I wouldn't be surprised if no more moves are made and that includes Haywards contract exception) {Comments llike that from me usually means I hit send and find out that Danny has just made an announcement lol]

At this point Bear is worth little more than the value of his contract. He hasn't played much nor has be produced any kind of a "breakout" game. I still like him and feel that he has a future, but he needs playing time. I was hoping he would get to play a few minutes per game. He might have helped last night. Brad has said that the team trusts Bear enuf to run offense through him. Let's hope he gets a breakout game soon. We have needed a player with his skill set for years.

After the first two games we were worried about team chemistry. I'm not worried about that any more. I may never worry about chemistry on a Brad coached team again. Highly paid pro athletes respond to him and produce. Can't upgrade that!

So what do I think? I think it is becoming more and more difficult to upgrade this team. The basic core is intact If the core is broken it can only be for a player who moves the needle, and there just aren't many candidates for this. At a minimum I want to see better player utilization by Brad. For me that is more key and much more likely than a major trade. More possible could be a FA pickup around the deadline.

Every aspect of this season is just plain funner!

wideclyde wrote:I can see waiting to use the DPE, and can also see that an additional shooter could be used to fill the DPE salary space as our current bench scoring is very inconsistent.  I also see that our rebounding is much improved over last season and that this improved rebounding is a very large part of being 22-4 after 26 games.

But, another center/big type guy is going to be needed as depth at some time this year.  Ainge decided that it was not going to be Okafor, and this was a gamble (like all deals and non deals) that can easily be justified.  

As well as Horford is playing and Baynes and Theis are supporting him, I do not see Morris or Yabusele capable of playing well enough around the rim to fill in if necessary.

Whether Ainge searches for such depth at center via the DPE route or by a vet minimum after the trade deadline, I would like to see the Cs find someone who can fill in behind Horford and Baynes.

Red Auerbach had Bill Russell at center for many, many years and you couldn't have a much better player, but he also always had more depth behind Russell than we may have right now behind Horford.  My basketball idol, Wide Clyde Lovellette, was one such guy for about three seasons, and of course there were other similar guys during the golden age of Celtics championships.

Prescient post. Aldridge abused everybody Boston put on him. The less I see of Horford at center , the better, unless the other team is playing small. Maybe I am overreacting. It`s just one game and Al was off his game, but with the way Tatum and Brown are shooting the ball, I`m starting to feel that a physical big is needed more than another shooter.

jrleftfoot wrote:

wideclyde wrote:I can see waiting to use the DPE, and can also see that an additional shooter could be used to fill the DPE salary space as our current bench scoring is very inconsistent.  I also see that our rebounding is much improved over last season and that this improved rebounding is a very large part of being 22-4 after 26 games.

But, another center/big type guy is going to be needed as depth at some time this year.  Ainge decided that it was not going to be Okafor, and this was a gamble (like all deals and non deals) that can easily be justified.  

As well as Horford is playing and Baynes and Theis are supporting him, I do not see Morris or Yabusele capable of playing well enough around the rim to fill in if necessary.

Whether Ainge searches for such depth at center via the DPE route or by a vet minimum after the trade deadline, I would like to see the Cs find someone who can fill in behind Horford and Baynes.

Red Auerbach had Bill Russell at center for many, many years and you couldn't have a much better player, but he also always had more depth behind Russell than we may have right now behind Horford.  My basketball idol, Wide Clyde Lovellette, was one such guy for about three seasons, and of course there were other similar guys during the golden age of Celtics championships.

Prescient post. Aldridge abused everybody Boston put on him. The less I see of Horford at center , the better, unless the other team is playing small. Maybe I am overreacting. It`s just one game and Al was off his game, but with the way Tatum and Brown are shooting the ball, I`m starting to feel that a physical big is needed more than another shooter.

I would agree. I think a big (center) is more important another shooter at this point.

but who is that big behemoth that can play defense and not hurt us on offense?

those guys are few to be honest.

I still think we are over thinking the problem from one game.

Aldride was averaging 22.8 point per game before our game. and he scored 27?

not like he went off for 40.

again, if Drummond kills us today.....well, maybe we have a problem.

kdp,

True, no need to over-react due to one game.

I'm thinking of more than that, however. Since before the opening tip on the season, I've been convinced we need a center in order to make it to championship contention. So far this season I'm even more convinced. I think we have almost everyone we need, except that mystery center. There are a few promising names in the 2018 draft, and we do have some assets that other teams now value in trade. I don't have anyone specific in mind, but I think it's a matter of get a center, get a title.

Regards

After the excitement of the summer when we acquired Hayward, and the fact that he has only played a couple of minutes here, this is a ridiculous trade offer. He is going no where. They did not convince him to leave Utah to trade him. I would see Stevens putting up a real fight over this one, and I don't believe it would ever happen.

As far as the two young guys, no happening. What are we doing? Building to tear down? Anthony Davis would require half of our starting lineup. Come on, slow down and sit back and let Ainge do his job. This happens everytime they lose.

Too many What ifs???

NYCelt wrote:kdp,

True, no need to over-react due to one game.

I'm thinking of more than that, however. Since before the opening tip on the season, I've been convinced we need a center in order to make it to championship contention. So far this season I'm even more convinced.  I think we have almost everyone we need, except that mystery center. There are a few promising names in the 2018 draft, and we do have some assets that other teams now value in trade. I don't have anyone specific in mind, but I think it's a matter of get a center, get a title.

Regards

I agree, I was talking more an addition for this year being very hard to do now.