Post game Bucks Game 4

[quote="RosalieTCeltics"]Funny, all year long we have seen and heard about Brad's ATO plays.
Granted, Morris was not, in our eyes, the one who should have taken that shot. What if he wasn't supposed to be the one?  What would we think of Brad hanging him out to dry with the press after the game?

This loss did not come in those last seconds, it came in the first half, when this team just could not match the intensity of Milwaukee.  It hurt, no doubt about that, but we live to play another game.  Too much finger pointing going on


Rosie
        "Too much finger pointing going on for
me."

    I agree with your above statement - but second guessing seems to be a national past time and that's ok with me except for the fact that second guessers have the advantage of knowing what didn't work.

  swish

Whatever happens this year we have developed a 20 year old star and a 21 year superstar to play along with All Stars Al, Kyrie, and Gordon next year, and probably All Defensive first unit pit bull Marcus Smart.

swish wrote:

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Funny, all year long we have seen and heard about Brad's ATO plays.
Granted, Morris was not, in our eyes, the one who should have taken that shot. What if he wasn't supposed to be the one?  What would we think of Brad hanging him out to dry with the press after the game?

This loss did not come in those last seconds, it came in the first half, when this team just could not match the intensity of Milwaukee.  It hurt, no doubt about that, but we live to play another game.  Too much finger pointing going on


Rosie
        "Too much finger pointing going on for
me."

    I agree with your above statement - but second guessing seems to be a national past time and that's ok with me except for the fact that second guessers have the advantage of knowing what didn't work.

  swish

Second-guessing for the sake of doing so isn't the point. It's also looking at said things for the reasons they didn't work in the first place instead of making a plain observation of what didn't work. Not having the ball in the hands of your hottest shooter is just bad planning, plain and simple.


KJ

k_j_88 wrote:

swish wrote:

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Funny, all year long we have seen and heard about Brad's ATO plays.
Granted, Morris was not, in our eyes, the one who should have taken that shot. What if he wasn't supposed to be the one?  What would we think of Brad hanging him out to dry with the press after the game?

This loss did not come in those last seconds, it came in the first half, when this team just could not match the intensity of Milwaukee.  It hurt, no doubt about that, but we live to play another game.  Too much finger pointing going on


Rosie
        "Too much finger pointing going on for
me."

    I agree with your above statement - but second guessing seems to be a national past time and that's ok with me except for the fact that second guessers have the advantage of knowing what didn't work.

  swish

Second-guessing for the sake of doing so isn't the point. It's also looking at said things for the reasons they didn't work in the first place instead of making a plain observation of what didn't work. Not having the ball in the hands of your hottest shooter is just bad planning, plain and simple.


KJ

Do you know how well Brown was covered during those final 5 seconds?

swish

Swish yes saw the play, he just went out to left corner behind 3 point line and stood there waiting....??? Well even great coaches can have bad days.

swish wrote:

k_j_88 wrote:

swish wrote:

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Funny, all year long we have seen and heard about Brad's ATO plays.
Granted, Morris was not, in our eyes, the one who should have taken that shot. What if he wasn't supposed to be the one?  What would we think of Brad hanging him out to dry with the press after the game?

This loss did not come in those last seconds, it came in the first half, when this team just could not match the intensity of Milwaukee.  It hurt, no doubt about that, but we live to play another game.  Too much finger pointing going on


Rosie
        "Too much finger pointing going on for
me."

    I agree with your above statement - but second guessing seems to be a national past time and that's ok with me except for the fact that second guessers have the advantage of knowing what didn't work.

  swish

Second-guessing for the sake of doing so isn't the point. It's also looking at said things for the reasons they didn't work in the first place instead of making a plain observation of what didn't work. Not having the ball in the hands of your hottest shooter is just bad planning, plain and simple.


KJ

Do you know how well Brown was covered during those final 5 seconds?

  swish

Actually, I do. For some genius reason they had him buried in the corner as a decoy at the 9:10 mark of the video.



In other words, he was never an intended part of that final play, which has been my entire point.



KJ

cowens/oldschool wrote:Swish yes saw the play, he just went out to left corner behind 3 point line and stood there waiting....??? Well even great coaches can have bad days.

cowens

Not covered ?

swish

I just watched the last five seconds 3x. Jaylen could have been given the ball on the inbound perhaps more easily than the cross court pass to Morris. He was covered 1 on 1 as was Marcus.

If the coach is concerned about the ability to get someone open, run some screens and diversions to throw off the Bucks' defense.

But in that moment, I'd give Jaylen the edge 1 vs 1 against anyone on the Bucks playing like he did. As Worcester mentioned, he was covered but probably would've had an easier attempt than Morris.


KJ

I don't have any background of coaching basketball (One CYO basketball game in 86 years). - just a fan so I rely on the wisdom of the coaches - so far the fans are offering their opinions about those final 5 seconds - hopefully Brad will take the time to clarify his reasoning on the final play. I always like to hear both sides of the story.

swish

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Funny, all year long we have seen and heard about Brad's ATO plays.
Granted, Morris was not, in our eyes, the one who should have taken that shot. What if he wasn't supposed to be the one?  What would we think of Brad hanging him out to dry with the press after the game?

This loss did not come in those last seconds, it came in the first half, when this team just could not match the intensity of Milwaukee.  It hurt, no doubt about that, but we live to play another game.  Too much finger pointing going on for me.

THIS ^^^^^^^^^!!!

bobheckler wrote:

swish wrote: I don't have any background of coaching basketball (One CYO basketball game in 86 years). - just a fan so I rely on the wisdom of the coaches -  so far the fans are offering their opinions about those final 5 seconds - hopefully Brad will take the time to clarify his  reasoning on the final play. I always like to hear both sides of the story.

  swish

Swish,

Watch the next-to-last video in my post on page 1 for Brad's explanation on the last play.


bob


.

bob

I could not pick up the voice

swish

k_j_88 wrote:

swish wrote:

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Funny, all year long we have seen and heard about Brad's ATO plays.
Granted, Morris was not, in our eyes, the one who should have taken that shot. What if he wasn't supposed to be the one?  What would we think of Brad hanging him out to dry with the press after the game?

This loss did not come in those last seconds, it came in the first half, when this team just could not match the intensity of Milwaukee.  It hurt, no doubt about that, but we live to play another game.  Too much finger pointing going on


Rosie
        "Too much finger pointing going on for
me."

    I agree with your above statement - but second guessing seems to be a national past time and that's ok with me except for the fact that second guessers have the advantage of knowing what didn't work.

  swish

Second-guessing for the sake of doing so isn't the point. It's also looking at said things for the reasons they didn't work in the first place instead of making a plain observation of what didn't work. Not having the ball in the hands of your hottest shooter is just bad planning, plain and simple.


KJ

If Morris had made that shot this thread would be filled with giggles and grins. Enough already!!!!

Coaches don`t have magical powers.Sometimes responsibility rests with the players. Morris has made plenty of big shots this year. He missed that one . All this wailng and gnashing of teeth is over the top, to me. Rozier needs to reestablish himself. Shane gives up too much size in postup situations. Tuesday should be a war.

jrleftfoot wrote:Coaches don`t have magical powers.Sometimes responsibility rests with the players. Morris has made plenty of big shots this year. He missed that one . All this wailng and gnashing of teeth is over the top, to me. Rozier needs to reestablish himself. Shane gives up too much size in postup situations. Tuesday should be a war.

I think we all can agree Rozier sucked in those 2 games, and if he can just hit 2 more shots, we win and his percentage would still be terrible. We all know he cost us the game more than or as much as Morris, but at least he just missed shots, he didn’t look very idiotic like Morris trying to drive and getting his shot killed I mean swatted,...please be a shooter, don’t drive on anyone over 7 ft tall.

Hard to win a game when, for around 23 minutes of it (from leading 12-5 with six minutes to go in the first quarter to trailing 65-45 with around seven minutes left in the third quarter), you're outscored by 27, 60-33.

I expected Milwaukee to be a problem for us and saw it as a potentially seven game series with how depleted we are, but I never, in any way, thought one of the problems would be Thon Maker, based on how little he contributed during the season. Hitting threes, blocking shots, when he and Giannis are in there together, their length is ridiculous.

Hope the expected rust isn't too much to scrape off for Smart if he's available for game six. It should not be as much of a problem defensively as offensively, so maybe he can at least slow down Bledsoe or Middleton a bit.

Would like to keep our prefect record of 35-0 intact in series when we're ahead 2-0.

A few analysts have mentioned the '73 and '87 series when we beat the Bucks but I remember getting swept out of the playoffs by them in 1983 and that prompted Red to go out and get Dennis Johnson (can't believe it only cost us Rick Robey), resulting in a championship the very next year. But that was a brutal series to watch for Celtic fans. If we lose this one, after being up 2-0, it will be just as brutal, although missing four of our top eight or nine players from opening night would make it a bit easier to understand.

Ktronic

But that's not what happened. I already explained why I had a problem with it in the first place. It's not that he missed the shot. It's that Jaylen didn't get that opportunity when he was the one that had the best chance. I can criticize poor coaching choices if I want to just like other people can sit here and ignore them.

KJ

Extremely disappointing to come up short after such a great comeback, but this is what happens when you dig yourself a hole and have to expend so much energy coming back. The glimmer here is the Celtics figured out how to deal with the Bucks swarming defense, so I expect Game 5 to be a much different story.

The tenor out here in this post game and in general over the course of the playoffs - from a group of esteemed and educated Celtics fans, is even more disappointing. Some of you sound like you have reverted to the BDC days - where bitching and complaining and seconding guessing every minute decision is standard operating procedure.

Brad Stevens is a great young coach and is universally recognized as one of the best out of timeout play callers in the NBA. Every play he draws up has MULTIPLE OPTIONS, the fact that Marcus Morris took the last shot in no way means he was the primary option, he was likely not even the secondary option. First was for Brown (he was covered), then Rozier cut to the hoop to allow help defenders to follow him, Morris was the stop gap - likely the 3rd option. Mind you, they have 5 seconds for all of this to happen.

As Brad said, as Horford said, as Jaylen said, as Tatum said - that is a shot Mook makes 9 times out of 10. All you can ask for is a good shot, from a good player, in a preferred location on the court. Check / Check / Check. Making the shot in no way indicates if it was a good or bad play.

This is stuff you dont need to be told, you are all smarter than this.

You take ANY TEAM in the NBA, and take away their two best scorers and their best defender - and tell me where they would be right now?

Houston - No Harden, No Paul, No Capella
Toronto - No Lowrey, No DeRosen, No Ibaka
GS - No Curry, No Durant, No Green

Shall I go on?

Only thing I dont like about the play is more on Morris than the play itself. If Morris turns towards the middle aggressively as soon as he gets the ball he most likely would either get fouled or the defense would collapse and he could have kicked it out to Jaylen. The play wasnt bad but it wasnt executed optimally either.

"He got out-muscled by Giannis on that game-winning offensive rebound tip by Giannis ..."

Tatum is 20 years old. When Giannis was a 21 year old rookie he was a string bean. Antetokounmpo averaged 6.8 points, 4.4 rebounds, 1.9 assists, 0.8 steals, and 0.8 blocks in 77 appearances during his rookie season. Jayson has done far better, and at a younger age.

Now Giannis is 6'11" and 222 lbs. Jayson is 6'8" 206 lbs. In three years Jayson will have an adult male body, muscle, and leverage. Watch out NBA. I'm not saying he will become the superstar Giannis is, but he will be a serious force to be reckoned with, and he won't get out muscled so easily.

LOL Morris was 4-14 and Jaylen was 13-24. Let's not reinvent the wheel. Basketball is about flow and anyone could see that flow was favoring one of them. I wonder who.

But people clearly missed where I said the missed shot wasn't the issue in and of itself.


KJ

Kleen I dont see any personal attacks like we dealt with in the BDC days, everyone might have comments on which players played great and underperformed, so what? Where else can we talk about strategy, players, attributes, cheesecake, whatever?

swedeinestonia wrote:Only thing I dont like about the play is more on Morris than the play itself. If Morris turns towards the middle aggressively as soon as he gets the ball he most likely would either get fouled or the defense would collapse and he could have kicked it out to Jaylen. The play wasnt bad but it wasnt executed optimally either.

If thats what you were hoping, good luck, bad play all the way around, I would never want to rely on Morris’s passing or driving ability, especially on such a key play. I can’t wait to see Hayward comeback so we don’t have to see Morris, the less the better.

worcester wrote: "He got out-muscled by Giannis on that game-winning offensive rebound tip by Giannis ..."

Tatum is 20 years old. When Giannis was a 21 year old rookie he was a string bean. Antetokounmpo averaged 6.8 points, 4.4 rebounds, 1.9 assists, 0.8 steals, and 0.8 blocks in 77 appearances during his rookie season. Jayson has done far better, and at a younger age.

Now Giannis is 6'11" and 222 lbs. Jayson is 6'8" 206 lbs. In three years Jayson will have an adult male body, muscle, and leverage. Watch out NBA. I'm not saying he will become the superstar Giannis is, but he will be a serious force to be reckoned with, and he won't get out muscled so easily.

I have no problem saying Jayson will be a superstar and multilpe all star, and obviously Jaylen too.