Re: Post game Bucks Game 4

by **mrkleen09** Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:52 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:Kleen I dont see any personal attacks like we dealt with in the BDC days, everyone might have comments on which players played great and underperformed, so what? Where else can we talk about strategy, players, attributes, cheesecake, whatever?

Cow - Everyone is entitled to their opinion, just dont get the constant vacillation. And this is not one person in particular, it is a lot of people.

Player X is Crap.
(a day later after a win), oh on second thought he is a lot better than I figured
(3 days later, after a loss), yeah actually he is crap - I was right the first time.

I know it is frustrating when the team loses and the easiest thing to do is find a scapegoat. But I guess I dont see the productivity in that exercise.

by **bobheckler** Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:04 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:Kleen I dont see any personal attacks like we dealt with in the BDC days, everyone might have comments on which players played great and underperformed, so what? Where else can we talk about strategy, players, attributes, cheesecake, whatever?

Cow - Everyone is entitled to their opinion, just dont get the constant vacillation. And this is not one person in particular, it is a lot of people.

Player X is Crap.
(a day later after a win), oh on second thought he is a lot better than I figured
(3 days later, after a loss), yeah actually he is crap - I was right the first time.

I know it is frustrating when the team loses and the easiest thing to do is find a scapegoat. But I guess I dont see the productivity in that exercise.

MrKleen and Cowens,

I'm seeing this as two different things. On one hand you can say "this player really stunk the joint up last night". That doesn't mean they stink as a player, it means they had a bad game (or have been in a slump). Then there's the longer view. What will this player be worth after they develop more, get healthier, integrate into Brad's system more, etc.

There were lots of people who loved IT last year but saw his physical limitations and his reckless disregard for his body as making him a liability to sign long-term. I've been down on Jaylen because of his frito %, but that's correctable (and is looking like it is becoming corrected). I harp on player's shooting mechanics because I see that as putting a ceiling on their shooting skills, but they can have a good night (Smart has, of course, the quintessential player profile for this. Jaylen Brown, on the other hand, came into the league as a defense-first player who wasn't a good shooter, but I saw good shooting mechanics and was hopeful his scoring would improve with practice as a result of that).

Posters can throw their hands up over the lousy game a player can have but fight to keep them on the team (once again, see Smart, Marcus). They can also see a player like Morris as supernumerary and dispensable after Hayward comes back but loving his scoring mentality now when we absolutely need it.

This, at least, explains my waffling.

bob

.

by **dboss** Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:07 pm

I am once again amazed at board members that take offense to critizing a player, a coaching decison or scheme or any reasonable observation or perception.

They seem to focus on the idea that you do not have the right to critique something but they rarely look at the content of the criticism. They may not have the capacity to understand that playet A gets the Tommy Award tonight but in the next game he gets a minus and may deserve the anti-Tommy Award

A meaningful debate on the subject matter instead of the act of criticizing would be appreciated. Anyone that thinks for example none of us are NBA coaches therefore how could anyone have a legitimate fans' perspective, conflicts with the premise behind this forum.

All things Celtics and basketball in a convivial manner.

Twisted Evil

by **mrkleen09** Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:00 pm

dboss wrote: A meaningful debate on the subject matter instead of the act of criticizing would be appreciated.

D - I completely agree, with meaningful being the key word here.

You tell me in what way any of this is meaningful or constructive?

-Brain fart by Brad going to Morris at end
-Brad may learn something in the off season
-He's so smart we decided not to go with the hot hand Jaylen at the time and instead Morris
-When a guy has the hot hand in a game where most of the team sucks, you must get him involved in the final 5 seconds
-If we eventually lose this series, that play will come up as a pivotal moment when the wrong decision was made.

Every one of the above are valid opinions. And those same people will come out here after a big win, and praise the team and the coach and his decision making. And those opinions are also valid.

And that the point. Its not that you dont have a right to an opinion, its the the constant vacillation and the condescending way it has been undertaken lately that grows tiresome. Does anyone here really think Brad Stevens is intentionally freezing out Jaylen Brown down the stretch? Does anyone here really think that Brad Stevens needs to be reminded to "ride the hot hand"? Come on FFS.

It is clear to me from the comments of Rosalie, Ktronic1, Swish, and a number of others I have spoken with privately, that I am NOT the only one that feels this way and has grown tired of the Chicken Little act.

But if you enjoy the I Love You - I Hate You - I Love You merry go around, but all means - carry on.

by **cowens/oldschool** Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:03 pm

dboss wrote:I am once again amazed at board members that take offense to critizing a player, a coaching decison or scheme or any reasonable observation or perception.

They seem to focus on the idea that you do not have the right to critique something but they rarely look at the content of the criticism. They may not have the capacity to understand that playet A gets the Tommy Award tonight but in the next game he gets a minus and may deserve the anti-Tommy Award

A meaningful debate on the subject matter instead of the act of criticizing would be appreciated. Anyone that thinks for example none of us are NBA coaches therefore how could anyone have a legitimate fans' perspective, conflicts with the premise behind this forum.

All things Celtics and basketball in a convivial manner.

+1

Agreed even though I’m never in the huddle.

by **cowens/oldschool** Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:18 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:
dboss wrote: A meaningful debate on the subject matter instead of the act of criticizing would be appreciated.

D - I completely agree, with meaningful being the key word here.

You tell me in what way any of this is meaningful or constructive?

-Brain fart by Brad going to Morris at end
-Brad may learn something in the off season
-He's so smart we decided not to go with the hot hand Jaylen at the time and instead Morris
-When a guy has the hot hand in a game where most of the team sucks, you must get him involved in the final 5 seconds
-If we eventually lose this series, that play will come up as a pivotal moment when the wrong decision was made.

Every one of the above are valid opinions. And those same people will come out here after a big win, and praise the team and the coach and his decision making. And those opinions are also valid.

And that the point. Its not that you dont have a right to an opinion, its the the constant vacillation and the condescending way it has been undertaken lately that grows tiresome. Does anyone here really think Brad Stevens is intentionally freezing out Jaylen Brown down the stretch? Does anyone here really think that Brad Stevens needs to be reminded to "ride the hot hand"? Come on FFS.

It is clear to me from the comments of Rosalie, Ktronic1, Swish, and a number of others I have spoken with privately, that I am NOT the only one that feels this way and has grown tired of the Chicken Little act.

But if you enjoy the I Love You - I Hate You - I Love You merry go around, but all means - carry on.

It’s all good, you know back in the day some on here were like no not another Pierce iso, when we might have needed a basket, I was liking seeing a master clutch player at work....he was so good at it, in his final years on Wizards, he carried that team in the clutch obviously with his coaches blessing and it was a thrill to see him still have the ability to do that. So differences of opinion are welcomed and I agree with dboss that let’s debate/express the content of our observations or predictions of the game, not wheather we’re allowed to express that. Why is anyone here if they can’t express what they may see or even find out with researching stats, not my game...???

by **swish** Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:45 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:
dboss wrote: A meaningful debate on the subject matter instead of the act of criticizing would be appreciated.

D - I completely agree, with meaningful being the key word here.

You tell me in what way any of this is meaningful or constructive?

-Brain fart by Brad going to Morris at end
-Brad may learn something in the off season
-He's so smart we decided not to go with the hot hand Jaylen at the time and instead Morris
-When a guy has the hot hand in a game where most of the team sucks, you must get him involved in the final 5 seconds
-If we eventually lose this series, that play will come up as a pivotal moment when the wrong decision was made.

Every one of the above are valid opinions. And those same people will come out here after a big win, and praise the team and the coach and his decision making. And those opinions are also valid.

And that the point. Its not that you dont have a right to an opinion, its the the constant vacillation and the condescending way it has been undertaken lately that grows tiresome. Does anyone here really think Brad Stevens is intentionally freezing out Jaylen Brown down the stretch? Does anyone here really think that Brad Stevens needs to be reminded to "ride the hot hand"? Come on FFS.

It is clear to me from the comments of Rosalie, Ktronic1, Swish, and a number of others I have spoken with privately, that I am NOT the only one that feels this way and has grown tired of the Chicken Little act.

But if you enjoy the I Love You - I Hate You - I Love You merry go around, but all means - carry on.

mrkleen

Opinions dealing with second guessing is not my cup of tea - because many years ago I realized that I was in no position to compete with management, coaches and on field quarterbacks in regards to GAME TIME DECISIONS. I'm just not privy to all the behind the scene activity that goes into real time decisions - plus I'm well aware of my own personal biases that can come into play. For those that get personal satisfaction with playing coach - no problem - I'm sure I traveled that same road myself back in my early years. I can always ignore the thread at any time if no longer interested.

swish

by **k_j_88** Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:21 pm

swish wrote:
mrkleen09 wrote:
dboss wrote: A meaningful debate on the subject matter instead of the act of criticizing would be appreciated.

D - I completely agree, with meaningful being the key word here.

You tell me in what way any of this is meaningful or constructive?

-Brain fart by Brad going to Morris at end
-Brad may learn something in the off season
-He's so smart we decided not to go with the hot hand Jaylen at the time and instead Morris
-When a guy has the hot hand in a game where most of the team sucks, you must get him involved in the final 5 seconds
-If we eventually lose this series, that play will come up as a pivotal moment when the wrong decision was made.

Every one of the above are valid opinions. And those same people will come out here after a big win, and praise the team and the coach and his decision making. And those opinions are also valid.

And that the point. Its not that you dont have a right to an opinion, its the the constant vacillation and the condescending way it has been undertaken lately that grows tiresome. Does anyone here really think Brad Stevens is intentionally freezing out Jaylen Brown down the stretch? Does anyone here really think that Brad Stevens needs to be reminded to "ride the hot hand"? Come on FFS.

It is clear to me from the comments of Rosalie, Ktronic1, Swish, and a number of others I have spoken with privately, that I am NOT the only one that feels this way and has grown tired of the Chicken Little act.

But if you enjoy the I Love You - I Hate You - I Love You merry go around, but all means - carry on.

mrkleen

Opinions dealing with second guessing is not my cup of tea - because many years ago I realized that I was in no position to compete with management, coaches and on field quarterbacks in regards to GAME TIME DECISIONS. I'm just not privy to all the behind the scene activity that goes into real time decisions - plus I'm well aware of my own personal biases that can come into play. For those that get personal satisfaction with playing coach - no problem - I'm sure I traveled that same road myself back in my early years. I can always ignore the thread at any time if no longer interested.

swish

Lol, by virtue of NONE of us being on the Celtics' coaching staff, that would thereby render everything that everyone ever says on this forum moot because we aren't "privy"

KJ

by **cowens/oldschool** Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:38 pm

I didn’t know one had to have privy info that goes on behind the scenes to be able to participate in a Celtic chat board. I know the world has gone mad/nuts, but this is the one place we can all go and let loose with our passion of the Celtics and the game....let’s just keep it that way please.

by **swish** Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:54 pm

k_j_88 wrote:
swish wrote:
mrkleen09 wrote:
dboss wrote: A meaningful debate on the subject matter instead of the act of criticizing would be appreciated.

D - I completely agree, with meaningful being the key word here.

You tell me in what way any of this is meaningful or constructive?

-Brain fart by Brad going to Morris at end
-Brad may learn something in the off season
-He's so smart we decided not to go with the hot hand Jaylen at the time and instead Morris
-When a guy has the hot hand in a game where most of the team sucks, you must get him involved in the final 5 seconds
-If we eventually lose this series, that play will come up as a pivotal moment when the wrong decision was made.

Every one of the above are valid opinions. And those same people will come out here after a big win, and praise the team and the coach and his decision making. And those opinions are also valid.

And that the point. Its not that you dont have a right to an opinion, its the the constant vacillation and the condescending way it has been undertaken lately that grows tiresome. Does anyone here really think Brad Stevens is intentionally freezing out Jaylen Brown down the stretch? Does anyone here really think that Brad Stevens needs to be reminded to "ride the hot hand"? Come on FFS.

It is clear to me from the comments of Rosalie, Ktronic1, Swish, and a number of others I have spoken with privately, that I am NOT the only one that feels this way and has grown tired of the Chicken Little act.

But if you enjoy the I Love You - I Hate You - I Love You merry go around, but all means - carry on.

mrkleen

Opinions dealing with second guessing is not my cup of tea - because many years ago I realized that I was in no position to compete with management, coaches and on field quarterbacks in regards to GAME TIME DECISIONS. I'm just not privy to all the behind the scene activity that goes into real time decisions - plus I'm well aware of my own personal biases that can come into play. For those that get personal satisfaction with playing coach - no problem - I'm sure I traveled that same road myself back in my early years. I can always ignore the thread at any time if no longer interested.

swish

Lol, by virtue of NONE of us being on the Celtics' coaching staff, that would thereby render everything that everyone ever says on this forum moot because we aren't "privy"

KJ

Hell no - I believe that I specified "game time decisions" as an area that I PERSONALLY avoid commenting on. You do whatever you feel comfortable with.

swish

by **dboss** Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:51 pm

This thread has becone a bit heated.

We should get back to the isuue at hand.

Game 5 is almost here and as we know game 5 in a tied series is big-time.

I read that there is an outside chance Smart may play

This has been a very good series. If nothing else the game 4 loss reinforced my belief that the Celtics are not to be trifled with.

Can I get an Amen?

by **NYCelt** Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:02 am

All -

I've been watching this thread all day and avoiding posting anything that would be misunderstood.

Some have tried to remind us what this board was created to do. Fair idea.

Although it was created as a place to openly express ideas, it was never intended to be a whipping post for upset fans to go on and on. You will recall from our State of The Forum back in July we talked about making a point and moving on. No need, or even possibility, to try and prove you're right. And that's because it can't be done. Nothing wrong with expressing dissatisfaction, but there's a limit to everything. Fans certainly always do get to express their thoughts, and not just on this forum. On this forum, however, we do get to say to one another, 'OK, I get your point, enough.'

I've now edited this to remove any appearance of bias so many times my head hurts.

So...

Enough.

Next topic.

by **gyso** Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:26 am

NYCelt wrote:All -

I've been watching this thread all day and avoiding posting anything that would be misunderstood.

Some have tried to remind us what this board was created to do. Fair idea.

Although it was created as a place to openly express ideas, it was never intended to be a whipping post for upset fans to go on and on. You will recall from our State of The Forum back in July we talked about making a point and moving on. No need, or even possibility, to try and prove you're right. And that's because it can't be done. Nothing wrong with expressing dissatisfaction, but there's a limit to everything. Fans certainly always do get to express their thoughts, and not just on this forum. On this forum, however, we do get to say to one another, 'OK, I get your point, enough.'

I've now edited this to remove any appearance of bias so many times my head hurts.

So...

Enough.

Next topic.

+1

by **swedeinestonia** Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:43 am

Like the wise Bryzgalov put it

by **worcester** Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:39 am

If Smart plays tonight, we win in 6.

by **cowens/oldschool** Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:12 am

I want to see Jaylen and Jayson go for 30.

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