How long does Kyrie keep Ainge on the string??

I know I said in an earlier post Kyrie is unlikely to agree to a sign and tradr, but here is an scenario I hadn't considered:

https://hardwoodhoudini.com/2019/05/30/pipe-dream-sign-trade-option-boston-celtics/


As each day passes in the Boston Celtics’ offseason, the rumor mill continues to churn. More and more it seems like it’s a forgone conclusion that Kyrie Irving is gone. With that in mind, what would be the best pipe dream sign and trade the Celtics could do to bring in a top player that would fill a need?

When thinking about players that absolutely destroy the Boston Celtics over the past few years and fits a need for the green and white, one player really comes to mind. His name is Devin Booker.

Over the past three seasons, he has toasted the Celtics averaging 37.5 points per game, having games of scoring 70, 38 and 25 over that span. 70! Booker dropped 70 in Boston! He is still only 22 years old and will be turning 23 this October.

His max contract kicks in next season at a whopping $158M with cap hits that range from $27 million to a $35 million over the next five seasons. When this contract is up, Booker will be 27 and able to sign a new contract. What a life!

By doing a sign and trade, Irving would still be able to get his super max contract (possibly up to $250 over 5 years). It also wouldn’t seem like the trade the Celtics made to bring in Kyrie was all for not. Essentially it would look like Boston traded Thomas, Crowder, Sexton and Kyrie for Booker, who is younger than all of those guys, except Sexton, who is only 20 years old.

To match up the cap numbers, Phoenix can send over Dragan Bender, who Danny Ainge loved during the 2016 NBA Draft and/or some additional pieces. Danny Ainge can then put on his general managing hat and convince Terry Rozier to stay . Then you’d have a nucleus of:

G – Terry Rozier (25), Devin Booker (22), Marcus Smart (25)

F – Jayson Tatum (21), Jaylen Brown (22), Gordon Hayward (29), Semi Ojeleye (24)

C – Al Horford (32), Robert Williams (21)

The Celtics also have three first round picks in this year’s draft and Memphis’ top 6 protected pick next year as bait to lure another player to Boston.

Would a combo of the above be enough to entice Anthony Davis to join the Celtics and stay long-term? Did you know that both Booker and AD both played at Kentucky? Maybe not together, but when you play at the same school, you share in a bond.

I know this is just a pipe dream, but we have seen crazier trades happen in the past. Would Kyrie be happy to play in a small market, getting paid the super max, not having to answer to the media and scrutiny of a city that takes your word as bond, and have Deandre Ayton and a young core to play with?

To quote Kevin Garnett again: “Anything is possible”.

Shamrock1000 wrote:I know I said in an earlier post Kyrie is unlikely to agree to a sign and tradr, but here is an scenario I hadn't considered:

https://hardwoodhoudini.com/2019/05/30/pipe-dream-sign-trade-option-boston-celtics/


As each day passes in the Boston Celtics’ offseason, the rumor mill continues to churn. More and more it seems like it’s a forgone conclusion that Kyrie Irving is gone.  With that in mind, what would be the best pipe dream sign and trade the Celtics could do to bring in a top player that would fill a need?

When thinking about players that absolutely destroy the Boston Celtics over the past few years and fits a need for the green and white, one player really comes to mind. His name is Devin Booker.

Over the past three seasons, he has toasted the Celtics averaging 37.5 points per game, having games of scoring 70, 38 and 25 over that span. 70! Booker dropped 70 in Boston! He is still only 22 years old and will be turning 23 this October.

His max contract kicks in next season at a whopping $158M with cap hits that range from $27 million to a $35 million over the next five seasons. When this contract is up, Booker will be 27 and able to sign a new contract. What a life!

By doing a sign and trade, Irving would still be able to get his super max contract (possibly up to $250 over 5 years). It also wouldn’t seem like the trade the Celtics made to bring in Kyrie was all for not.  Essentially it would look like Boston traded Thomas, Crowder, Sexton and Kyrie for Booker, who is younger than all of those guys, except Sexton, who is only 20 years old.

To match up the cap numbers, Phoenix can send over Dragan Bender, who Danny Ainge loved during the 2016 NBA Draft and/or some additional pieces. Danny Ainge can then put on his general managing hat and convince Terry Rozier to stay . Then you’d have a nucleus of:

G – Terry Rozier (25), Devin Booker (22), Marcus Smart (25)

F – Jayson Tatum (21), Jaylen Brown (22), Gordon Hayward (29), Semi Ojeleye (24)

C – Al Horford (32), Robert Williams (21)

The Celtics also have three first round picks in this year’s draft and Memphis’ top 6 protected pick next year as bait to lure another player to Boston.

Would a combo of the above be enough to entice Anthony Davis to join the Celtics and stay long-term? Did you know that both Booker and AD both played at Kentucky? Maybe not together, but when you play at the same school, you share in a bond.

I know this is just a pipe dream, but we have seen crazier trades happen in the past. Would Kyrie be happy to play in a small market, getting paid the super max, not having to answer to the media and scrutiny of a city that takes your word as bond, and have Deandre Ayton and a young core to play with?

To quote Kevin Garnett again: “Anything is possible”.

This is another trash website that puts out very factually inaccurate stories.
Kyrie is not eligible for a super max contract.
Additionally, a sign and trade is considered one transaction.
Even if Kyrie was eligible for a super max contract, he could not be signed and traded and keep the super max contract.
Dragen Bender can’t be traded as he is an unrestricted free agent.
Most likely Bender will be out of the league.
As best he will get a minimum contract.

Additionally, if Kyrie agreed to play for Phoenix, why wouldn’t Kyrie just sign with Phoenix since they could have the cap space to do so and keep Booker?
Of course Kyrie would want to play with Booker.
This could be the most amateurish trade proposal I’ve heard in a while.

tjmakz wrote:Additionally, if Kyrie agreed to play for Phoenix, why wouldn’t Kyrie just sign with Phoenix since they could have the cap space to do so and keep Booker?
Of course Kyrie would want to play with Booker.
This could be the most amateurish trade proposal I’ve heard in a while.

Easy there TJ....the piece comes from a fan website, and the author flat out states the premise is a pipe dream. I have stated in earlier posts that Kyrie agreeing to a sign and trade is probably a fantasy. However, in the doldrums of the offseason, it can be fun for some people to consider various possibilities, no matter how unlikely. This isn't Woj or Jackie Mac or Ramona Shelbourne, it is some guy on the internet thinking out loud. Also, the problems you point out, while true, are peripheral to the main idea of somehow trading Irving gor Booker. Again, as the author says, it is mostly a pipedream, but if the parties were interested, different details could be worked out. The question for Celtics fans is if they might he interested in such a swap.

I can’t imagine the Phoenix would even bother with a trade like this. Booker is too good to let go. Yup...a pipe dream it is!!!

Shamrock1000 wrote:

tjmakz wrote:Additionally, if Kyrie agreed to play for Phoenix, why wouldn’t Kyrie just sign with Phoenix since they could have the cap space to do so and keep Booker?
Of course Kyrie would want to play with Booker.
This could be the most amateurish trade proposal I’ve heard in a while.

Easy there TJ....the piece comes from a fan website, and the author flat out states the premise is a pipe dream. I have stated in earlier posts that Kyrie agreeing to a sign and trade is probably a fantasy. However, in the doldrums of the offseason, it can be fun for some people to consider various possibilities, no matter how unlikely. This isn't Woj or Jackie Mac or Ramona Shelbourne, it is some guy on the internet thinking out loud. Also, the problems you point out, while true, are peripheral to the main idea of somehow trading Irving gor Booker. Again, as the author says, it is mostly a pipedream, but if the parties were interested, different details could be worked out. The question for Celtics fans is if they might he interested in such a swap.

Theoretically, Kyrie could be signed and traded to any team.
The problem with inaccurate articles like this is that people believe it and then it gets discussed as a realistic option.
Do we really want to waste each other’s time by discussing articles like this?
We all try to be realistic if we make a trade proposals.
Amateur journalists should do the same.

At least it got me thinking about how good Booker is. We need to draft a diamond in the rough like him.

Is one being impatient in wanting a championship now? We never settle for less. After all this is Boston and after all its been 11 years since our last title. I don’t think I want to wait another 11 and match our last championships drought.
I guess i am impatient. No, I take that back.
You’re damn right I’m impatient!

Danny thought he was putting the next Championship team together when he signed Hayward to a max deal and traded for Irving.

so far that hasn't worked out.

Ktronic1 wrote:Is one being impatient in wanting a championship now? We never settle for less. After all this is Boston and after all its been 11 years since our last title. I don’t think I want to wait another 11 and match our last championships drought.
I guess i am impatient. No, I take that back.
You’re damn right I’m impatient!

Although I've been among those calling for patience, I want to take the opportunity to say that, as a fan, I can completely see the justification in Ktronic's take on this.

Especially talking about a franchise with a long tradition of winning. Unfortunately, one that stopped in the mid-eighties. We got a quick taste again a little over a decade ago, and now get let down by what looked like a championship contender... on paper. I guess that's why they play the games.

If you're a Celtics fan, over the age of 30, this is not the way you know it to be. It's easier on the under 30 group, I would think. San Antonio and Golden State have been the dominant teams. 40s and 50s, it's probably Chicago that sticks in memory.

Reading Ktronic's post made me consider my own view. I've owned up here before to being a lifelong fan of the Buffalo Bills and Baltimore Orioles. The last time one of those teams won a title was some 36 years ago. So, perhaps, I've been beaten into submission, thinking you win it all every 30 years or so. Waiting 22 years between Celtics banners was a relatively short time.

In the meantime, back to the Celtics latest misfortunes/misdeeds. Blown title chances following the '08 win, thanks to injuries. The current state of the team, with a deep and talented roster that put on an incredible display of lack of chemistry. If you like to win, and even us Bills fans wake in the middle of the night after dreams of a fantastically special Sunday, this can't be acceptable. How the heck do you go from one game from the finals with two injured stars to falling behind Toronto, Milwaukee, and the 76ers? The 76ers? The Process? If that sits well, you might as well go stand in front of the next passing duck boat.

So go ahead Ktronic, and whoever else, take your shot and declare that, as a fan, you want to win. Now.

Meanwhile, I'll root for Danny and the boys to strike now, with what may be our best opportunity, and do something radical to shake it up. Draft big, trade big, let anyone with a big mouth who won't be a true teammate walk. And yes, those three 'big' comments in the last sentence can have two meanings.

Impatience with the Celtics status quo is OK too.

**************************************

Postscript: I stopped watching hockey in the Gretzky era. Thought the talent level had fallen too far and the game got too diluted. I had been a Bruins fan before that, back to the Orr, Cheevers, Espo, Sanderson teams. Maybe the cure is going back to the Bruins...

Well June 1st has arrived.

The Boston Celtics remain in position to do many different things. As we hear and read about layers upon layers of scenarios, be mindful of the sources.

Be mindful that NY Knicks and Brooklyn Nets supporters see things completely different that fans in LA or in Boston.

Fans and the sports media types can only speculate about what will happen. As the tick tock moves clockwise to the June 20th NBA draft, we are just under 3 weeks from the day when Danny Ainge will make some big time decisions.

And if Boston is still interested in making a trade for Anthony Davis it seems logical that draft picks will be moving on June 20th because NO would want to have Boston make picks for them.

Boston could move up, move down or remain where they are. If Irving's decision is based on movement of the other players, it further complicates things. The Knicks will be in the mix to pull off a trade for AD and LAL will also be trying to make a trade for him.

Boston would like to retain Kyrie but I really do not think Danny is overly concerned about that. Danny has a hole card, Terry Rozier. Kyrie should be more than ready to make a decision by July 1st. Therefore Boston should focus on upgrading their front court and perhaps not worry about the PG spot. They will have either TR or KI next year. They will need to replace Morris at PF and should be able to find one in this draft. But they need to find one that is long and athletic. One that can defend at a high level, run the floor and score baskets within a structured offense.

The possibility that AH may opt out and sign elsewhere cannot be overlooked but at this point in his career I do not see Al turning down $30 million for one year. I do not see Boston looking to extend him either. With that in mind Boston may also be looking to add a center to the mix in this draft.

There is a lot of noise out there and most of it is just that.

I think Celtics fans should remain focused on what this team needs to get better. Danny Ainge is sitting on potentially 5 1st round picks over the next two years (includes Memphis pick) So he has the assets to draft talent or make trades to improve this team.

If Irving does not stay because Boston is not able to bring in AD or some other elite player, then let him walk. He would only serve to prove his own shortcomings. I'm sure a lot of fans would cheer his departure. I am not one of them but if he leaves, he leaves. I will continue to support my team regardless.

Know this...you cannot win the title without elite talent. Being a team that plays well together in the system that Brad runs in Boston is not enough to win a championship. You need elite talent and that talent needs to address positional needs across the board.

So Danny has a lot of options to consider. This team still has a solid foundation of quality players that are still developing.

Funny, Danny has yet to address the press/public about the condition of the Celtics. He has left all the talking up to Mike Zarren or Austin Ainge. I assume, right around draft time, he will surface. The owners have already addressed his position on the team and said that he will remain in his current position. I am sure he wants to right this ship, this is his baby......Irving's non existence in the playoffs had to dumbfound him. But, it happens . Even Damian Lillard had his struggles.

I still find myself checking all the websites daily for crazy rumors, I will admit patience is not my strong suit. It is hard for me to accept Kyrie's non existence in the whole thing. It makes me want to watch him walk to a disfunctional team like NY and fail. His reception in the TD Garden next year will be worse than Ray Allen ever expected or got.

How do we know that Danny and The Flat Earth Guy have not already had their conversation and what happens between the player and the team has already been decided?

If nothing else, Irving has given Ainge a greater reason to better evaluate the mind sets and psychological make up of the players he is going to acquire. Teams have to be able to work together much more than the 2018-19 Cs did

Jeff Goodman, who covers the Celtics often, claims Ainge does not want to bring Kyrie back, that he wants him to just GO. I find this a little hard to believe because they are then losing that $ slot that if they traded him, they would get a quality player in return. Makes you wonder just what the thinking is inside the offices of the executives. Remember the words of Wyc Grousbek, "This was not a team that was easy to love" Got to wonder about the guy who signs the checks is really thinking.

NBA analyst Colin Cowherd had a chance to discuss Kyrie’s situation with college basketball insider Jeff Goodman, who claims that he has known Kyrie for a long time. When the two discussed Irving’s situation with the Celtics during an episode of The Herd Podcast, Goodman said he knows that the All-Star guard will be signing elsewhere this summer. “I’d be surprised if he stays in Boston. You see his body language. You hear enough smoke, you know there’s something going on here. Obviously, Kyrie’s kinda moody, he’s got a tight inner circle. So, I’m not sure how much validity some of (the rumors have), but again, I don’t expect him to be in Boston. You could see it in the locker room and with his teammates, that they almost don’t know how to take to Kyrie Irving.” – via Clutch Points



Goodman added that Irving has become a difficult person to be with, and that the Celtics won’t be that devastated if they lose him this summer because they still have the core that led them to the Eastern Conference Finals last year. “I’ve known him a long time, Colin, and, honestly, he’s become tough to like. He has. Obviously, he’s an elite level talent. But we saw it in the playoffs. He kinda got swallowed up because he’s not the most athletic dude in the world. And this group was far more entertaining to watch a year ago in the playoffs with Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Terry Rozier. I’m not sure how many people in Boston, including Danny Ainge, would be that unhappy if Kyrie Irving leaves.” – via Clutch Points

cowens/oldschool wrote:Patience 

We have those picks, gotta think we can find real talent going forward and 2 J’s are still babies. Look at growth of Kawhi, Paul George, Jimmy Butler, even Klay and Steph, took them awhile to get there. I can’t wait to see where they are at at 24-25-26....RW can be a real defensive force. I have no problem drafting more young talent and developing them and letting them compete. If GS, Milwaukee and Denver can get to their level mostly thru the draft, we can too.

Sure is exciting to take a positive view of the future - but in reality getting a handle on exactly what the league talent distribution will look like in 3 or 4 years is quite shaky to say the least - 30 teams, each with several - what ifs, who knows for sure, maybe's and other question marks to be answered over the next few years. Since the 1987-88 season only 2 Celtic teams have played .695 ball. The glory years of league domination are getting deeper into the past with each passing year. At 87 the clock is not ticking in my favor.

swish

Shamrock,

Your points exactly are why Ainge should have traded Irving at last February's trade deadline.

He could have gotten something for him then while he will get nothing after July 1st. A good young player, a project player, a draft pick or two and an expiring contract to make the trade work for the NBA trade rules surely look good right now to me.

Ainge had it figured out quite well when he traded Pierce and Garnett a 'year too early', but may have forgotten to trade Irving soon enough. GM trade and contract decisions with big star type players are tough as they can have great results and equally terrible results.

NYCelt wrote:

Ktronic1 wrote:Is one being impatient in wanting a championship now? We never settle for less. After all this is Boston and after all its been 11 years since our last title. I don’t think I want to wait another 11 and match our last championships drought.
I guess i am impatient. No, I take that back.
You’re damn right I’m impatient!

Although I've been among those calling for patience, I want to take the opportunity to say that, as a fan, I can completely see the justification in Ktronic's take on this.

Especially talking about a franchise with a long tradition of winning. Unfortunately, one that stopped in the mid-eighties. We got a quick taste again a little over a decade ago, and now get let down by what looked like a championship contender... on paper. I guess that's why they play the games.

If you're a Celtics fan, over the age of 30, this is not the way you know it to be. It's easier on the under 30 group, I would think. San Antonio and Golden State have been the dominant teams. 40s and 50s, it's probably Chicago that sticks in memory.

Reading Ktronic's post made me consider my own view. I've owned up here before to being a lifelong fan of the Buffalo Bills and Baltimore Orioles. The last time one of those teams won a title was some 36 years ago. So, perhaps, I've been beaten into submission, thinking you win it all every 30 years or so. Waiting 22 years between Celtics banners was a relatively short time.

In the meantime, back to the Celtics latest misfortunes/misdeeds. Blown title chances following the '08 win, thanks to injuries. The current state of the team, with a deep and talented roster that put on an incredible display of lack of chemistry. If you like to win, and even us Bills fans wake in the middle of the night after dreams of a fantastically special Sunday, this can't be acceptable. How the heck do you go from one game from the finals with two injured stars to falling behind Toronto, Milwaukee, and the 76ers? The 76ers? The Process? If that sits well, you might as well go stand in front of the next passing duck boat.

So go ahead Ktronic, and whoever else, take your shot and declare that, as a fan, you want to win. Now.

Meanwhile, I'll root for Danny and the boys to strike now, with what may be our best opportunity, and do something radical to shake it up. Draft big, trade big, let anyone with a big mouth who won't be a true teammate walk. And yes, those three 'big' comments in the last sentence can have two meanings.

Impatience with the Celtics status quo is OK too.

**************************************

Postscript: I stopped watching hockey in the Gretzky era. Thought the talent level had fallen too far and the game got too diluted. I had been a Bruins fan before that, back to the Orr, Cheevers, Espo, Sanderson teams. Maybe the cure is going back to the Bruins...

“So tired tired of waiting tired of waiting for youuuu”
-Kinkstronic

THIS TEAM NEEDS REBOOTING!

DRAFT THE VERY BEST IN THE DRAFT

SIGN A TOP FREE AGENT AT LEAST A GUARD

MOVE FORWARD!

112288

112288 wrote:THIS TEAM NEEDS REBOOTING!

DRAFT THE VERY BEST IN THE DRAFT

SIGN A TOP FREE AGENT AT LEAST A GUARD

MOVE FORWARD!

112288

I;m not sure how we can get the cap space to "sign a top Free agent", looks like the best we can do will be a mid level exception type player (who can be a rotational player at least though).

Need for Hortford to reneg his contract for much less money but more years.

112288

Free agency signings outside of using the tax payer level MLE or bi-Annual exception or veteran minimum exceptions, is likely to be on hold for a few years.

Getting some salary relief as a result of Al Horford taking a pay cut (that is what it is.. a pay cut) is very unlikely to happen.

As we all know by now Al is starting to have knee issues and at 32 it is not going to get better. Celtics fans should be happy that he only has one year left on his contract.

GH has one year at $32.7 million and then an option year for $34.2 million. Year 3 is truly a make it or break it year from him. After a full year of recovery and a full year to get back to playing basketball the expectation for him to play at a high level in year #3 will be sky high.

Danny has already spent his CAP space and now has to live with the results.

So Boston finds itself in a situation where they can use the draft to address some team needs as well as trades.