How long does Kyrie keep Ainge on the string??

KI MUST GO!

IF WE CANNOT GET A TOP PG GO FOR RONDO, HE COULD STILL DO WONDERS WITH OUR TEAM AND HE WILL ALWAYS BE A CELTIC!

IF NOT GO WITH A ROOKIE, THE HELL WITH BANNER #18 NEXT YEAR. GOING FOR A BANNER IS A CRAP SHOOT.........ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN ALONG THE WAY WHERE A TEAM GETS LUCKY AND HOT AND BUMPS YOU OFF. UNLESS DANNY CREATES A SUPER TEAM THROUGH TRADES THIS TEAM IS FLAWED AND A REBOOT IS IN ORDER INCLUDING MOVING HAYWOOD!

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Danny Ainge refused to trade Terry Rozier because he needed to secure the PG position if KI got hurt or if he opted out of his contact and signed elsewhere,

So the logical move if KI leaves is to resign Terry.  The Celtics will likely need to add a BU PG and they can probably find one in the draft or sign a veteran FA to a one year deal.

I do not think they need a complete makeover but they do need to make a few changes.

With respect to Hayward, year 3 will tell us without any doubt if he is able to regain his former high level of play.  I seen enough of him that tells me , yeah he can still play but not at his previous level with Utah.  His trade value is low because he is still owed around $64 million and he has yet to produced sustained excellence.  If Danny was inclined to move him Boston would probably have to throw in a first round pick.  At this point I think Danny may be stuck with him for the time being.

I think the #1 need on this team is to add a long athletic PF that can match up against teams like the Raptors, Bucks and Philly.  That is the missing piece from everything that I have seen from this team. And we need a big man coach to work closely with Robert Williams.

So next year if no AD trade and no KI, Boston can still put a very competitive team on the court.

dboss wrote:112288

Danny Ainge refused to trade Terry Rozier because he needed to secure the PG position if KI got hurt or if he opted out of his contact and signed elsewhere,

So the logical move if KI leaves is to resign Terry.  The Celtics will likely need to add a BU PG and they can probably find one in the draft or sign a veteran FA to a one year deal.

I do not think they need a complete makeover but they do need to make a few changes.

With respect to Hayward, year 3 will tell us without any doubt if he is able to regain his former high level of play.  I seen enough of him that tells me , yeah he can still play but not at his previous level with Utah.  His trade value is low because he is still owed around $64 million and he has yet to produced sustained excellence.  If Danny was inclined to move him Boston would probably have to throw in a first round pick.  At this point I think Danny may be stuck with him for the time being.

I think the #1 need on this team is to add a long athletic PF that can match up against teams like the Raptors, Bucks and Philly.  That is the missing piece from everything that I have seen from this team. And we need a big man coach to work closely with Robert Williams.  

So next year if no AD trade and no KI, Boston can still put a very competitive team on the court.  

Most what you said I agree with.  Although Rondo would be a great resign and you can keep Rozier as a SG and backup forward.  I think Rozier could live with that as long as he is getting minutes.

Williams, I just do not know, he looked lost this year probably due to lack of minutes, but still you would expect something better then what he has shown.  He also has those knee problems and blood flow problems that may require an operation.

I would trade up and get that 18 year old out of Europe - French? at 6'9", he should fill out at 7'0" by the time he stops growing at 21.

Another bone to pick with Steven's, why is he not reshuffling or adding to his staff a defense strategist!  So far I think he has a very silent but BIG EGO!


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Also really like the French kid.  I like Rondo too but I see him as a bu PG.  

Rw did not look lost.  He was lost.  Had no clue in what to do, where to be.  He is either a low IQ player or a victim of lacks coaching and few opportunities.  Maybe all of these things.

But he has instincts and skills that need to be brought out.  Brad has yet to add a viable low post offensive option and it makes me think that he may not believe or even know how to put that option in place.

At times this year it appeared that the team tuned him out.  This team is missing discipline.   That is where a steady but firm hand from the coach is needed.

Way too much not doing your job. I thought KI was off the reservation for most of the playoffs. Not blaming just him but he was definitely part of the problem. He fell off the edge of his flat world.

dBoss

Well put!

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most seem to forget that Smart and Hayward can/do both run the offense.

If Irving leaves and Rozier stays, I don't see PG as a big need for a rotaional player.

if they both leave, yes.

With Kyrie leaving, keeping Rozier on the one year, qualifying offer probably isn’t the worse move. He was good in the ‘18 playoffs and in the last half of the 17/18 season.

That’s probably a question of whether the player gets an offer sheet or not. If Rozier gets an offer sheet, I’d probably prefer the Cs letting him go.

gyso wrote:

KyleCleric wrote:With Kyrie leaving, keeping Rozier on the one year, qualifying offer probably isn’t the worse move. He was good in the ‘18 playoffs and in the last half of the 17/18 season.

It would be an interesting question,

How many restricted free agents have accepted the QO for a one year deal in order to become an unrestricted free agent the following year?  Lets say since 2011, which would be two CBA's ago.

If a player accepts the QO, that is such a risky financial decision.  One year of relatively low pay vs. a multiple year contract for 3 or 4 times the QO amount (each year).   If he is injured during the QO season, his future earnings will be severely impacted.

I imagine that the answer to the question is very few, or none.  

Last year Rodney Hood signed his QO but that was after waiting many weeks with no offers or no offers worth signing an offer sheet for.
You are right, this rarely happens.

question for Rozier will be , are there any NBA teams willing to give him starters money on an offer sheet?

I have no idea how he is perceived by NBA GM's

do they see him as the up and coming PG who played so well for us in the playoffs last year...or the disgruntled PG who looked more like a career backup this year?

I guess we may find out as soon as offers can be put on the table

gyso

I think Danny would be very much interested in keeping Rozier and getting him under contract (easier to trade)  There is little chance Terry accepts the QA.  

Terry had a pretty difficult year but I am pretty comfortable with him being the starting PG.  He does not turn the ball over, rebounds very well and is solid at the line.  His outside shooting has been erratic.  He can definitely bring the ball up the court and he can play defense. Brad's offense is not designed for a PG that is required to get a lot of assists.  Having Marcus helps in that area and both Al and Hayward are willing passers.

Keeping Terry assumes that KI opts out and then leaves.  

Going into this season everybody loved Rozier.   Now we cannot wait for him to leave even though we may also lose Kyrie.  I don't get it.  This is a very weak draft for PG's so you would have to find one in free agency and hope that he is able to adjust to the Celtics style of play.  If you keep Terry at least you can maintain some continuity and maybe when he gets to play more minutes without looking over his shoulder he settles down and plays well consistently.

With Marcus Smart securing his first team all defensive ranking he is going to start.  I think you start Terry, Smart, Brown and Tatum along with Al but go big if matchups dictate.

I think Danny drafts a stud at PF and looks for another shooter.  With 3 first rounders and a second, Danny can also draft a prospect at PG and bring him along slowly.

It is time for the combination of Brown and Tatum to become Boston's 1/2 punch.  

If that does not pan out then Danny wasted two # 3 picks on the wrong guys.

Much depends on how well Hayward plays because you need 3 solid scorers. I would bring him off the bench to start off with and then go from there.

Most of us are experiencing varying degrees of disappointment. Looking ahead I see nothing but opportunity.

I’d go with Smart, Brown, Tatum, Horford, and Baynes starting with Rozier, Hayward, Ojeleye, and Theis off the bench.

gyso wrote:dboss,

Smart is our point guard.
Brown starts at shooting guard.
Hayward starts at the 3.
Tatum starts at the 4.
Horford starts at the 5.

Baynes occasionally starts at the 5.  Horford moves to the 4, Brown or Tatum come off the bench in that scenario.

Rozier is not a starting PG on a contending team.  He won't like coming off the bench, so he has to go.  His attitude last season poisoned his play and maybe the locker room as well.

Just my opinion.

gyso

I do not think Smart can be a full time starting PG.  I also can not really determine if Hayward becomes a starter.  For all we know he regresses physically over the summer. I witnessed too many games where he had zero quickness and limited mobility off the dribble. Brad should be certain that Gordon is really ready before starting him.  Terry did start last year in the playoffs and played pretty good, well enough to get us to game 7 of the ECF.  Other teams that are interested in Terry would likely be looking to bring him in to start at the point.  

The Celtics will still need a reliable scorer off the bench.  Who is going to play the sixth man role?  Draft picks are prospects until they prove otherwise.

One of my biggest concerns is how the Celtics compensate if both Morris and Irving are gone.  That is a lot of offensive production.  That's 34.7 PPG.  If Tatum, Brown and Hayward each increased their scoring average by 10 PPG you would still come up short.  This essentially is the problem going forward without a primetime scorer on your roster.  I think all 3 of our wings can and will score the ball more given more FGA's but how do you really compete with a collection of players scoring in the teens?  Where is the offensive production coming from a bench of guys like Baynes, Semi, Yabu, theis, Wannamaker and Williams?

I hope Celtics fans look a little closer at all the ankles.  Losing Irving will be huge.  

See, I can take a happy story and turn it into a tragedy.  

Just hoping we do not become a team in search of an allstar quality player.

A lot of analysis of past failures - -and future promises on this board -  but the addition of 3 all stars, 2 number 3 draft picks and a number 6 pick and the team is still playing sub .695 ball - despite 4 straight years of .585 plus ball the team has yet to be crowned eastern conference champs.  It might be time to consider the possibility that this team as constituded (should Irving leave) has peaked.

 swish

swish wrote:A lot of analysis of past failures - -and future promises on this board -  but the addition of 3 all stars, 2 number 3 draft picks and a number 6 pick and the team is still playing sub .695 ball - despite 4 straight years of .585 plus ball the team has yet to be crowned eastern conference champs.  It might be time to consider the possibility that this team as constituded (should Irving leave) has peaked.

 swish

Swish

I will say this 1,000 more times at least.

The Boston Celtics have drafted a lot of guards and wings with their top picks.

They have yet to add a stud at PF or at center.

They added 3 allstars 2 of which may never make the allstar team again. AH was and has been on the decline before we signed him 3 summers ago. He is a solid player but he lacks the athleticism and stamina to play at a high level game in and game out. GH missed a full year and still looks uncertain in year two. Kyrie Irving is going to be a FA and he may go elsewhere.

This team has not reached it's potential mainly because the team is structured the wrong way.

I will say this 1,000 more times. We need to add a stud in the frontcourt. That is the missing piece. The Boston Celtics cannot go much further unless they upgrade their weak frontcourt.

so most think that IF Irving leaves both Rozier and Morris will be gone as well?


because I see just the opposite

If Irving stays I see Both Morris and Rozier moving on, due to money issues

but if Irving leaves I see both Morris and Rozier staying in that case.

maybe I'm missing somthing.

swish wrote:A lot of analysis of past failures - -and future promises on this board -  but the addition of 3 all stars, 2 number 3 draft picks and a number 6 pick and the team is still playing sub .695 ball - despite 4 straight years of .585 plus ball the team has yet to be crowned eastern conference champs.  It might be time to consider the possibility that this team as constituded (should Irving leave) has peaked.

 swish

Swish - I usually find myself agreeing with your posts, but on this one I am not sure. I think the team as constituted INCLUDING KYRIE may have peaked. In other words, this exact iteration of the rebuild is clearly not a contender. Our three all stars together may have peaked, but I don't think our picks have peaked, including Smart. So, I don't think a total tear down is necessary, just a partial. The problem is too much money is tied up in nice-but-not-great players like Al and Gordon.

Shamrock1000 wrote:

swish wrote:A lot of analysis of past failures - -and future promises on this board -  but the addition of 3 all stars, 2 number 3 draft picks and a number 6 pick and the team is still playing sub .695 ball - despite 4 straight years of .585 plus ball the team has yet to be crowned eastern conference champs.  It might be time to consider the possibility that this team as constituded (should Irving leave) has peaked.

 swish

Swish - I usually find myself agreeing with your posts, but on this one I am not sure. I think the team as constituted INCLUDING KYRIE may have peaked. In other words, this exact iteration of the rebuild is clearly not a contender. Our three all stars together may have peaked, but I don't think our picks have peaked, including Smart. So, I don't think a total tear down is necessary, just a partial. The problem is too much money is tied up in nice-but-not-great players like Al and Gordon.

Shamrock1000

My reasoning is based on the fact that Irving had a great regular season and yet the team was only able to play.598 ball. If Irving walks and Horford starts to lose his overall effectiveness due to aging the Celts may be pressed to equal last years performance. Cap space has dried up until Horfords salary comes off the books - only allowing for equal value trading of Tatum, Brown or Hayward. That's why I'm concerned about the prospect of our youthfull base being able to advance to the next level of competition.

swish




swish

gyso wrote:As for Rozier, I think most here understand my opinion about that rat bast . . . Um . . . non-Celtics like person.    

gyso

Still making me laugh.

It seems at least half of the board dislikes Rozier, and half dislikes Irving.

Tough to be a point guard around here.

swish wrote:

Shamrock1000 wrote:

swish wrote:A lot of analysis of past failures - -and future promises on this board -  but the addition of 3 all stars, 2 number 3 draft picks and a number 6 pick and the team is still playing sub .695 ball - despite 4 straight years of .585 plus ball the team has yet to be crowned eastern conference champs.  It might be time to consider the possibility that this team as constituded (should Irving leave) has peaked.

 swish

Swish - I usually find myself agreeing with your posts, but on this one I am not sure. I think the team as constituted INCLUDING KYRIE may have peaked. In other words, this exact iteration of the rebuild is clearly not a contender. Our three all stars together may have peaked, but I don't think our picks have peaked, including Smart. So, I don't think a total tear down is necessary, just a partial. The problem is too much money is tied up in nice-but-not-great players like Al and Gordon.

 Shamrock1000

My reasoning is based on the fact that Irving had a great regular season and yet the team was only able to play.598 ball. If Irving walks and Horford starts to lose his overall effectiveness due to aging the Celts may be pressed to equal last years performance. Cap space has dried up until Horfords salary comes off the books - only allowing for equal value trading of Tatum, Brown or Hayward. That's why I'm concerned about the prospect of our youthfull base being able to advance to the next level of competition.

 swish




 swish

Thanks for the clarification Swish, that makes a lot of sense. I agree entirely with your premise that teams need to be playing close to 0.700 ball to be considered a legit contender for a championship. Last year's Celtics were not there. I would argue that even if Irving walks, we would end up with a similar, near 0.600 record next year. So, rather than try and trade to replace Irving's value, I say sign Rozier and let the chips fall where they may until we are free from Al's contract. I know some will argue, but in mind the current team minus Irving would do as well as this past year's team. That team would be fun to watch again. The kids would improve. We get another year to figure out if any of those kids have superstar potential. At the end of the year, Al's money comes off the books and Gordon's contract becomes tradable. Should Irving walk, I feel that trying to replace his stas via trade would cost us our youth but not produce a near 0.700 team.

In summary, I think the rebuild built on an Irving, Hayward, and Horford big 3 is already over. I just would rather try and go for a limited rebuild where we keep the kids another year and accept that next year will likely to be similar to this year (at least in regard to wins and losses - getting teeth pulled would be more fun than watching last year's team).

The one caveat for me is if we can get AD. If we can, then I would be for signing Kyrie too. Would prefer to keep Tatum if possible. A team with AD, KI, and either AH or GH (I assume one goes for salary reasons) should be close to a 0.700 team. Not sure Brad is the best coach for that team, but that is another question.