POST GAME PHILLY - AWAY - SEASON OPENNER 2019 -2020

John Karalis @RedsArmy_John
3 minutes ago
Watching the 1st 4 minutes of last night's game and every offensive play involved a Kanter pick... a lot of high pnr that led to some clean looks from 3 that C's missed

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bob



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For those jumping on Gordon's D,
1. He shouldn't be the primary guy guarding Ben Simmons
2. Simmons played 35 minutes. Had 24 points 9 assists 8 rb
3. Gordon played 35 minutes. 25 points. 2 assists. 5 rb

In perspective Gordon will play better D against non super stars. His scoring, with no 3 point attempts, was just fine. Are we criticizing Simmons for being such a poor defender against Gordon?

kdp59 wrote:on the other hand....IF Philly IS   the best in the East this year...that would make us that much better, right?

I mean...I would rather lose by 14 to the best team in the east, then lose by 14 to mediocre team.

Both teams played poorly last night.
Philly also didn't bring their A game.
Ben Simmons was the only one for Philly who had a really good game.
Harris was decent. Everyone else had a sub par game which is common for the first game of the year.
Richardson will be a very good addition for Philly.
I do think they will really miss JJ Redick's shooting.

worcester wrote:For those jumping on Gordon's D,
1. He shouldn't be the primary guy guarding Ben Simmons
2. Simmons played 35 minutes. Had 24 points 9 assists 8 rb
3. Gordon played 35 minutes. 25 points. 2 assists. 5 rb

In perspective Gordon will play better D against non super stars. His scoring, with no 3 point attempts, was just fine. Are we criticizing Simmons for being such a poor defender against Gordon?

Brad should not have started GH on Ben Simmons.

That is called a coaching mistake.  

Simmons is the head of the snake.  Either Brown or Tatum should have been assigned to check him.

Some things are so obvious.  

It certainly looks like Brad wants to start his 3 wing lineup.  I still do not see Kanter as our stating center.  To fully take advantage of his post scoring skills you cannot have him in there with our 4 best scorers.  We need a defensive minded center to be paired with our top scorers.  I think Kanter can be a major offensive weapon provided he is not the 4th or 5th option in any particular lineup.

Early and small sample size from last night's game.

https://stats.nba.com/players/advanced/?sort=TEAM_ABBREVIATION&dir=-1

Robert Williams was the best center last night but he only played 11 minutes.  His rating was 111.5 on offense and 88.0 on defense or overall a +23.5 Net rating.  By comparison Theis had the worse net rating on the team at -39 and Kanter was not much better at -23.6  Again, a very small sample size that will eventually yield a measure of credibility as the season moves forward.  

The 3 headed center concept or 4 headed concept is not going to be effective.  I really do not need to watch 82 games to figure that one out.  Theis is a Small ball center so that really limits his effectiveness against size and if there is one thing we know, the East has big physical front lines.   Williams or Poirier are probably the best fit to start at center if you want to start Kemba and three amigos.  We have not seen Poirier play but like Williams he is not a guy that needs a lot of touches.  Right now Williams is the one who has earned the opportunity to get more minutes.

It is not just the problem associated with trying to divide up minutes at center between too many guys it is also about all the other rotations players including starters being mismatched with 4 centers.  

This is just my opinion and I could be dead wrong about it.  But I believe priority #1 is for Brad to decide who is the starting center and who will be the backup.  Daniel Theis will never be an effective starting center on this team so I do not need to see more from him.  What I do need to see is how Williams and Poirier play over extended minutes (+20)  I am not in favor of a one shot opportunity.  We need to see multiple games where those guys get significant minutes.  So maybe you drop some games along the way as you evaluate the effectiveness of Williams or Poirier at center but that is a sacrifice that needs to be made.

Dboss,  

I thought RW played OK too.  I believe he was in a little foul trouble but I don't care about that.  He needs to play to learn HOW to play.   Thats the best experience for him.  He gives us very good help defense which we need in the worst way. I like Kanter off the bench but there is a reason he didn't get more minutes when he was at OKC with a top ten PER in the league.  

Tatum didn't play all that well but he was basically the only guy that could hit the broad side of the barn from the 3 point area and was the leading rebounder and 2 steals.  He is going thru a learning phase taking the ball to the hole.  He is getting there, just not finishing.  I believe he will be OK.  I won't rag on him too much right now for  turnovers because most number one option guys that handle the ball have them. The more he handles the ball the better he will get.  He really hasn't gotten the handle the ball much his first 2 years because Kyrie had it.  Same for Jalen.    If this game would have been last year , after Tatum missed a couple shots he wouldn't have gotten any more opportunities.  He kept shooting which I want him to do  and he did shoot 8 threes at 50%.  He will improve the other areas. Out of all the guys that played major minutes he was the best in the plus minus stat. I know its doesn't mean everything but overall I do put stock in it.

Brad has got to make some choices and stick with them long enough to see if they work.  Brad didn't exactly show a lot last year either so he can do better.  I want RW to get minutes and if he fouls out but doesn't learn,  thats one thing but I think he will learn if he wants to play he has certain things he has to do on a consistent basis.

Jaylen Brown,   not sure how he earned his new paycheck last night.  If he could have stayed in the game maybe he could have made a difference.  He looked quick on defense.  He will be fine also.

Hayward looked a lot like he did in Utah.  His defense is not the best but he gets where he wants to .  

Smart was OK but he was pushing the envelop with the refs.  Was real close to get technicals.  Loved someone actually getting assists.  

Walker,  not worried about his shooting,  but I want to see him getting assists and playing defense.

I won't over react until these guys have a chance to shorten the rotation and get the right guys playing.  Even Lebron says it will take a while for the team to get some chemistry.   We have quite a few players that are expected to fulfill a different role on this team,   Brown, Tatum,  our center position, and quite a few others.  How about first game jitters?  

I think we come back strong against the world champs.

We didn't look much like a "team" last nite. Philly did in a few spurts. It just seemed like our guys would get the ball and either pass quickly to someone else or go one on one. With Tatum shooting the most that really stood out to me. Hayward looked a lot like it too, other than he hit his shots more , other than 3 pt shooting. We have to click together as a team. I saw once last night where it looked like GH was trying to slap hands with a Celtic and he kind of got left hanging. Don't remember who it was and it could have been coincidence. Hope it was anyway.

Tardust

A long way to go for this team.

The laboratory is bubbling as Brad continues to work on his Frankenstein center rotation. (a collection of disjointed body parts sewed together with melt-away thread to disguise the true identities)

Hayward really looked good on offense but not so good defending the quicker Simmons.

I wonder who gets the matchup tomorrow night with Siakum.  I read where Kanter was limping noticeably after the game.

I'll bet money that the Celtics knock off the Raptors tomorrow,

Stats are misleading especially  Tatum.  He missed so many open look shots and still does not know to compete a drive to the basket on a consistent basis.

He is not the kid I saw as a rookie who feared no shot and drained most of them!

Maybe this is it for him.

112288

112288 wrote:Stats are misleading especially  Tatum.  He missed so many open look shots and still does not know to compete a drive to the basket on a consistent basis.

He is not the kid I saw as a rookie who feared no shot and drained most of them!

Maybe this is it for him.

112288

What? He went 4-8 from deep and had10 rebounds. He is 21 years old.

He shot under 50% > 8 - 22

4 TO's and a -4

112288

112288 wrote:He shot under 50% > 8 - 22

4 TO's and a -4

112288

I know. There was good and bad as we both pointed out. Just game one of year 3 for a guy trying to be better.

I only managed to watch the first quarter last night and it seems it went downhill afterwards

I do not remember the lalst team under Brad Stevens that had a good start in the first 5 games and anyway Philly should be the worst matchup for the Celtics especially early in the season imo.

I just want to throw in a couple of points that really stood out to me from just the 1st quarter + seeing the stats afterwards (many of which already pointed out in the thread). I started writing a longer post to express my fears about Brad Stevens and the development decisions that have been taken in the last 2-3 years that really have not helped our young core to develop, but I will save that for when I have seen more from the team in the first month, maybe I will be proven wrong.

We did not look like a team that was sharing the ball and trying to execute the game plan as almost everyone was rushing shots, rushing drives, just rushing plays.

Jayson was rushing every single play I watched in the first quarter. His 3s were all bad rushed shots - as a positive he made half of them, but he was out of control on all those shots. His drives were even worse, sometimes he looked like he knew he would really like to stop and pop, but no - he has been told to get to the rim if he does not shoot a 3 and this is something that he is forcing at the moment and I am not sure if it is productive... I hope he will grow into it and it will not look so forced...

Jaylen looked like our most consistent player while he was in the game. Solid defense against Horford and was staying aggressive without forcing the issue on offense. I am completely baffled by the fact he played only 21 minutes at the end... was he in foul trouble later as well ?!

Kemba had a bad shooting game, but I am only worried about him not falling into ball hogging habits. Moving without the ball on offense more and focusing on defense and he would be great for the Celtics. He was also rushing most everything.

Hayward was under control on offense, took only good shots and was really getting where he wants to. He was put on Simmons because Jaylen was on Horford, but I don't get why it was not switched to Tatum later?

Kanter played decent defense vs Embiid. He is not terrible on defense against bigger slower centers.

Theis looked good to me, he just can never go toe to toe with the likes of Embiid or even Kanter, he is great for defending PFs that are not extemely athletic and smaller centers so I expect he would get to start is some games. (vs Golden State i.e.).

Our rookies seem to have had a rookie game, no surprises there, they have potential, but we should not expect them to destroy other benches from game 1.

I think we match up much better with Toronto and the Bucks, hope for 2 wins

dboss wrote:

112288 wrote:He shot under 50% > 8 - 22

4 TO's and a -4

112288

I know.  There was good and bad as we both pointed out.  Just game one of year 3 for a guy trying to be better.

As I pointed out I think he is just not there yet with his "3 or drive" game so he is forcing it too much. It also seems to affect his defense effort

bob



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If JT learns how to finish which I expect he will it will make a huge difference in his stats.

I don't know how many layups he missed last night but if he makes 3 of the ones he missed we are talking about him shooting 50% from the field last night and finishing with 27 points. I will take that stat line along with 10 boards any nite.

If we don't think he is going to learn how to finish around the rim we may as well send him off in a trade because he won't be able to help us.

As for his -4 you were referring to, it was quite a bit better than any of the other guys that played significant minutes. I believe he will probably be a little high in the TO dept this year considering he has never been a ball handler in the NBA and his age.

I like Brown as well but I am not sure what you saw him do last night that impressed you. I have seen a ton of games he played better in. He couldn't get in rhythm because he was fouling a lot, especially early. If anyone keeps Al from getting position down low you can guard him because he can put the ball on the floor. Leave him open and he can knock it down. I am not sure we have anyone on the team that can guard Al when he has position down low.

What I said before the game was I would be worried about our play down low around the rim. Well they got layup after layup and dominated us on the boards, yet we actually still had a chance to win if we hit free throws and stop the TO's and anyone hits a couple 3 pointers.

Vankisa wrote:

dboss wrote:

112288 wrote:He shot under 50% > 8 - 22

4 TO's and a -4

112288

I know.  There was good and bad as we both pointed out.  Just game one of year 3 for a guy trying to be better.

As I pointed out I think he is just not there yet with his "3 or drive" game so he is forcing it too much. It also seems to affect his defense effort

All the comments are valid. Of course he is not there yet. I think he has a good chance to get there.

“When I was 21, it was a very good year.”
Let’s hope Jason has Sinatra-like year...
...”And it came undone. When I was 21.”
Be a man Jason; go get it!

On to analysis: Jason driving to the cup was Very encouraging. His hesitation on what to do (shoot the open trey, etc.) is a negative but it’s just who he is now, that really should improve. His newly built muscle is helping him with defense and rebounding. He’s a good passer but not a point forward. Brad shouldn’t run the offense through him on the high post like he did with Al, JT doesn’t think the game well enough to be a primary distributor just yet.

BingBang! wrote:“When I was 21, it was a very good year.”
Let’s hope Jason has Sinatra-like year...
...”And it came undone. When I was 21.”
Be a man Jason; go get it!

Or how about The Who, from the album Tommy:

"Got a feelin' 21 is gonna be a good year...:

One positive. KW smiled more in last night's game than you know who did all last season

jrleftfoot wrote:One positive. KW smiled more in last night's game than you know who did all last season

well, he IS used to smiling while his team loses after all.

I'm not sure I like seeing my teams players all happy when they are losing, but hey to each their own.


oh and Bob asked who will be guarding Siakam tonight....anyone but Hayward please, would be my answer!

kdp59 wrote:

jrleftfoot wrote:One positive. KW smiled more in last night's game than you know who did all last season

well, he IS used to smiling while his team loses after all.

I'm not sure I like seeing my teams players all happy when they are losing, but hey to each their own.


oh and Bob asked who will be guarding Siakam tonight....anyone but Hayward please, would be my answer!

                                     Mine was a lighthearted post The smiles were early on when the game was competetive, or rueful when he disagreed with a call. Are you questioning his competetiveness, suggesting that he seek your permission to smile , or just being snarky.It"s tough to tell in keyboard land.