Celtics over Nuggets

by **worcester** Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:15 pm

Another really fabulous win by our guys. So many great plays by so many Celtics that it is almost unfair to single out Jayson or Jaylen, but what the heck? I loved Jayson's pass to Jaylen for his monstrous dunk; then I really loved Jayson's follow up three.
Kemba was no slouch either. Marcus was his typical bulldog self. Javonte with a couple of good scores. Semi played good D, and Grant did not disappoint, extending his 3 point streak to 0-25.

I appreciate Kanter more and more now too. Theis is solid as a rock. RWill acquitted himself well. Again, another solid win. 16-5. Think of how much better we would be if only we had Kyrie and Al back - wasn't that the ongoing lament of every sportswriter trying to prove he knows nothing about this team?

by **dboss** Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:40 pm

There is a good mix at play.

The trade talks will be making there way to all the blogs with Kevin Love as some sort of prize.

At 31 and injury prone who is dumb enough to trade for him.

The Celtics are so much better now because our two young pups are playing like big dogs. Each game brings me to the conclusion that you can build a contender around them. Right now Brad has to stagger their minutes during games. That will change once GH return in that we can have 2 of our wings on the floor at all times.

Our offensive fire power will improve exponentially when Hayward is back.

Defensively this team gets after it. That is further enhance by guys like Semi off the bench that understands what the team needs from him.

This is a real fun team to watch. I can only imagine how this team will look as the season moves on. Brad has a real knack for extracting maximum value from his players.

Most teams do not have the assets to match our strength (wings).

Tatum and Brown are developing to a point where ther are unguardable.

by **tardust** Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:02 am

worcester wrote:Another really fabulous win by our guys. So many great plays by so many Celtics that it is almost unfair to single out Jayson or Jaylen, but the heck? I loved Jayson's pass to Jaylen for his monstrous dunk; then I really loved Jayson's follow up three.
Kemba was no slouch either. Marcus was his typical bulldog self. Javonte with a couple of good scores. Semi played good D, and Grant did not disappoint, extending his 3 point streak to 0-25.

I appreciate Kanter more and more now too. Theis is solid as a rock. RWill acquitted himself well. Again, another solid win. 16-5. Think of how much better we would be if only we had Kyrie and Al back - wasn't that the ongoing lament of every sportswriter trying to prove he knows nothing about this team?

Unless I figured it wrong the Nets were 4 and 7 with Kyrie and 8 wins and 3 losses without him. Go figure. It will be fun to see how they do when he comes back.

by **dboss** Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:24 am

Things happen for a reason. If we were able to keep Al we would not have been able to sign Kemba as a FA. If we kept both Kyrie and Al we would not have been able to sign Jaylen and then resign Tatum next year.

This team is better off by replacing Kyrie with Walker and losing Al Horford.

by **cowens/oldschool** Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:51 am

dboss wrote:Things happen for a reason. If we were able to keep Al we would not have been able to sign Kemba as a FA. If we kept both Kyrie and Al we would not have been able to sign Jaylen and then resign Tatum next year.

This team is better off by replacing Kyrie with Walker and losing Al Horford.

Absolutely, the more I watch this team, the more I realize Kyrie’s game was all flash and could lull you into thinking how great he was, but at the same time he was so bad for everyone’s game, because he had to always have the damn ball. Or he was gonna whine whine and whine. No way do the 2 J’s progress as much as they already have so early into this season if Kyrie is still here. The one play that stands out in my memory from last year was an inbound play where GH threw the ball into Tatum and he missed the shot and Kyrie had a public hissy fit with his hands reaching out like how could you...???? Really, every play has options, in a split second if Hayward thought he saw something and went with it....all part of the game, it’s not like the guy GH threw the ball to was a scrub.

by **tardust** Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:06 am

This team appears to really like each other, share the ball, and you see whoever is on the bench at the time, (including the starters) up and cheering when other players are doing well. Didn't see this much last year. This team is fun to watch. We took a lot of ball domination out of our team last year with losing Irving and Morris. Rozier was usually trying to get his. Horford was Irving's main target each game. This is so much better this year and I think we are only the scratching the surface with the two J's. I wish we would force feed RW a little more because I guarantee we are going to need a shot blocking presence. Theis is OK but RW has a lot higher ceiling.

by **Berlin-T** Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:39 am

This is the best team we've had since KG came to Boston.
I can hardly wait for January 20th when the Lakers come to town.
I think I'll stay up for that one!

Berlin-T

by **worcester** Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:33 am

Kuche Kitchen!

by **sinus007** Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:13 am

Hi,
Yes, it was a great W. But one thing this game showed was we need a player who could deal with monsters like Jokic.
And, speaking of Horford, he'd be much better than Theis and Kanter.

AK

by **cowens/oldschool** Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:18 am

sinus007 wrote:Hi,
Yes, it was a great W. But one thing this game showed was we need a player who could deal with monsters like Jokic.
And, speaking of Horford, he'd be much better than Theis and Kanter.

AK

If we gave Al his 25 mill, that would impact us by not being able to resign 2 J’s or sign Kemba.

by **bobheckler** Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:56 am

This was a quality, end-to-end win over a good WC team. They are now, with this loss, still a very healthy 14-6 and were 6-2 on the road going into last night's game. They are just 1/2 game behind Luka and the Mavs for 2nd place in the west. They were/are healthy. This was a SEGABABA (SEcond GAme of a BAck to BAck) for them but they blew the Knicks out so badly no Nugget played more than 25 minutes in that game (Jokic). The rest of the starters played low 20s. So fatigue isn't much of an excuse.

We won the first 3 quarters, when it was a game. We lost Gino Time. I'm good with that.

For a pudgy tub o'lard Nikola Jokic is pretty damn effective. Very soft touch for a big, excellent hands, great court vision. He had been struggling coming into the game but he played well last night. 30 points 13-21, 10 boards in 31 minutes.

They had 2 players in double digits, Jokic and Jamal Murray (10 points), who got his 10 on an execrable 5-14. We had 3 players in double digits, 2 of them over 20 and another at 19. We shot 53.9% on the game. The only reason why the game was this close, and it wasn't close halfway through the 3rd, is because they ended up with 12 more fgas than us. If we had gotten anywhere near the 94 fgas they took this would have been a 20 point laugher. We were up 20 but lost it in garbage time. We would have ended up 20 if we took 90 fgas instead of 82.

Kemba is looking very inconsistent. He has an amazing game, and then he doesn't. He starts out cold, then heats up. That makes it hard on Brad because he doesn't know which Kemba he'll get. He had 2 points on 1-3 after 1 and 6 points on 3-9 at the half. I wasn't able to record the 3rd quarter stats but, obviously, he went 5-9 for 13 points in the 2nd half. The best thing about Kemba is that even though he's not getting as many touches, as many shots, isn't shooting particularly well he's happy as a clam because he's winning and that didn't happen when he was off in Charlotte. As we all know "He Who Will Remain Nameless" would be pouting like a little beeyatch right now.

Tatum is taking that next step up. You can just see him calling for the ball last night. At 21.2 ppg he is on track for an All-Star nomination.

Brown has already taken that step up. If he doesn't get an All-Star nomination this year (20.0 ppg, 38.5% from 3, 6.9rpg puts him on track too) because some idiot wants to spread the wealth and give it to a candidate because he's the only good player on that team (e.g. Trae Young) then that's what will happen. At them minimum Jaylen should get "Most Improved Player", because I can't think of a better candidate for that.

Our size, or lack of it, was an issue in this game. This will hurt us against big teams like Philly and LAL. As good as Theis has been he was severely bully-balled by Jokic. Kanter was the closest in weight class to "The Denver Dreadnought", but his defense is, well, perfectly Kanterian.

Watched some of the highlight film provided below, specifically the 3 minutes Poirier played. At 9:10 or so (you can fast-forward) he pnrs and then does an excellent job of putting his defender on his back. Anything other than a very long, high rebound and he would have had it. The shot went in, but he was perfectly positioned if it didn't. It was a beautiful old-school box out. Get inside of him, stick your butt out to gain some space, and just wait for the shot. At about 9:30 Poirier gets his offensive rebound and slam. I understand Kanter's a great rebounder and inside threat, but why Poirier isn't getting more minutes I don't know.

A. Sherrod Blakely @ASherrodblakely
yesterday
FWIW, each of the five #Celtics starters shot at least 50% from the field for the first time this season, against the #Nuggets. *Jaylen Brown....... 8-for-15 *Jayson Tatum..... 10-for-19 *Daniel Theis......... 3-for-4 *Marcus Smart...... 4-for-5 *Kemba Walker...... 8-for-16

Denver has the #1 defense in the NBA. #1, giving up just 101.8 ppg, and that's after dragging their average up by giving up 108 to us. We have the #3 defense, giving up 103.5.

Brian Robb @BrianTRobb
about 8 hours ago
Brad Stevens on the #Celtics: "We’re way ahead of where I thought we would be results-wise.”

We're 16-5 and completed our longest road trip of the year. Yeah, I'd say we're doing well.

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401160965

bob

.

by **BingBang!** Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:06 pm

Great takes Sir Heckler! To me when Poirier arrived he wasn’t adjusted to the speed of the NBA game and he was literally awkward on his feet. Looks like he’s making adjustments and his skills (boxing out, shooting) are beginning to shine. Celts need big help so hopefully he continues to progress.

by **dboss** Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:15 pm

sinus007 wrote:Hi,
Yes, it was a great W. But one thing this game showed was we need a player who could deal with monsters like Jokic.
And, speaking of Horford, he'd be much better than Theis and Kanter.

AK

Jokic put up 21 shots scoring 30 with 10 boards and 4 assists. Clearly we have no match up for him. However we have one of the best guard and wing rotation which more than madeup for the size issue at center.

There are few teams that have both size in the middle to go along with highend guard and wing players.

The Celtics can still compete with their configuration. GS won 3 titles with average talent at center.

The J's were virtually unstoppable last night against the best defensive team in the NBA. They could not check them.

The Celtics have beaten the Bucks, Raptors, Heat, Mavs and Denver. Those are all top 10 teams. Boston has only been severly beaten one time in the 1st game at Philly. The remaining 4 losses were all close and winnable games. Our center rotation while not ideal has not stopped us from winning.

There is probably just one team in the NBA that can stay with the J's. Throw GH and Kemba in there and Boston has 4 20 ppg guys. No team can match that level of positional fire power.

by **jrleftfoot** Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:23 pm

Two qick observations , with pushback expected: 1. I could have sworn I saw Kanter playing a little defense against the Nuggets. Maybe I was hallucinating. 2. I know he put up good stats, but I wasn't that impressed with Jokic. He seems to have taken a step back and he's not in great shape.

by **worcester** Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:28 pm

Dboss, which one team?

by **dboss** Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:48 pm

[quote="worcester"]Dboss, which one team?[/quote Razz

]

The Clippers with KL and PG.

by **dboss** Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:49 pm

jrleftfoot wrote:Two qick observations , with pushback expected: 1. I could have sworn I saw Kanter playing a little defense against the Nuggets. Maybe I was hallucinating. 2. I know he put up good stats, but I wasn't that impressed with Jokic. He seems to have taken a step back and he's not in great shape.

Must be some good drugs.

by **worcester** Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:17 am

Makes sense dboss.

by **jrleftfoot** Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:40 pm

Jokic is down 4.4 points per game and 4.7 in field goal% from last season. I don' t think he's doing drugs , though.

by **dbrown4** Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:25 pm

Jokic is a lumberer. It's painful watching him come up court. But then again, he's got a lot of weight to bring along.

db

by **mrkleen09** Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:48 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:Absolutely, the more I watch this team, the more I realize Kyrie’s game was all flash and could lull you into thinking how great he was, but at the same time he was so bad for everyone’s game, because he had to always have the damn ball.

I agree 100%. Between Kyrie, Morris, Horford and Rozier - half of the games last year featured players spaced out around the perimeter, standing there watching one guy "go to work".

Not only is this years brand of basketball more exciting, but by it inclusive nature - everyone on the court is involved and in the moment at the same time. Last year, they went from one hot hand to another. This year, you often have 3 or 4 guys who are hot at the same time.

by **worcester** Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:32 am

I'm looking forward to Carson getting his confidence and hot hand back.

by **sinus007** Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:07 am

worcester wrote:I'm looking forward to Carson getting his confidence and hot hand back.

Right. I hope he stops driving to the hoop and starts shooting. We all know he can be lights out shooter.

AK

by **dbrown4** Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:01 pm

There has been something bugging me that finally woke me up from a dead sleep last night. This isn't a glimmer unfortunately, it's initially a gloomer.

Over the years, I have taken to listening to the words that come out a players, coaches, teams' mouths that are in contention for a title. They speak a very different language than everyone else. Just like when you talk to a CEO of a major corporation or hear them speak. They speak a different language.

The team's that wind up winning the title year in and year out all say and do the same things and the team that makes it to the finals and lose all say the same thing(s) up to that point.

The championship team typically is extremely one-minded and focused but not aloof. They are complimentary of their competition, never derogatory and stick with the general talking points the coach is blaring into their ears.

While they are fun to watch all season from the fans perspective because winning covers a lot of high stumps, they don't rejoice during the regular season when they win or get way down on themselves when they occasionally lose a game. Their rejoicing is set for when they hoist the trophy in the Finals.

But you can tell from every pore and every ounce of their being they are focused on one thing and one thing only...The Title. They don't exactly come out and say it, but each game is a small stepping stone. Some is blatant, but most is subtle.

LAL came out with one of their secrets just the other day. It caught me by surprise as it should all of us. One of their goals is to not lose two games in succession. Wow! That's not saying anything about a championship but the last team that did that was in the finals and went to a Game 7 there before running out of steam. Very subtle. It has Championship written all over it. You have to read between the lines.

We've spent all of our first 21 games trying to overhaul chemistry and get everyone off the injured reserve list. I can assure you this leaves little or no time to focus on Championship Speak and goal setting for that of any kind. When you're in a wreck, everything comes to a stop. Literally. Last year was that wreck. Then this year starts with the same injury bs plus the chemistry reset.

One thing Championship-bound teams do not EVER say is the following:

"We're just happy to be here!" THAT is the curse of death. EVERY TEAM I have heard say that comes home empty handed. EVERY TIME...without fail.

Now I know we had a lot of expectations coming into last year that did not materialize. And we have a right to be happy with our current team's AMAZING turnaround with all the personnel changes and enjoy watching a team that is fun to watch. Thank God we have all the banners behind us that prove we know what we are talking about and management that has the ability to first re-focus the narrative and then deliver that to the players and put a new mantra in place.

Most of ESPN's stories, if you can find them, are focusing on how happy the Celtics are. That is great. Chemistry was a huge problem last year and happy players makes up about 95% of chemistry IMHBAO. But we can be happy after hoisting the O'Brien Trophy in 6 months.

I don't know what the LAL's (TJ please feel free to insert your observations) and MIL's overall press stories are all about but I'll again bet my wife's paycheck that "happy" or "fun" aren't the lead words or focus of the story. ESPN and the media have now set their feet in concrete and it's a MIL vs. LAL Finals, like it or not. Maybe a spoiler alert with LAC but as you can see LA can't serve two masters. And LAC is just beginning to show they aren't ready for prime time and are bowing out early for that spoiler alert. I have believe MIL and LAL are reading their own press clippings and are believing that as well. It helps when everyone is in your corner cheering you on. We aren't in the picture yet as a spoiler to the prom. And we are the only one's in our corner on a national level.

The narrative for the Celtics and players needs to begin changing/redirected...and the sooner the better. Internally of course. And we know to what. The press will begrudgingly lag behind the Celtics progress. We all know this. The next goal that needs to be achieved is determining whether we are 3 more games better than MIL this year. If we're going to take that ECF series 7 games and more than likely it will other things equal, we have to win 4. Those are the rules. If we can't get by MIL, there is no Finals.

All I am saying is, we know what's around the corner. We are consistently beating the top teams and when we lose to them it isn't by much and typically it's on their court. We are beating the teams we should be beating. Right now what I'm afraid of is in this game of inches, we have shot ourselves in the foot early on by losing to SAC and BKN. Those two games may be the difference between one more round of 4 games at home and watching the playoffs from home. With those two as wins and beating an LAC or DEN with the change of a ball bounce, we'd have the best record in the league. We're still very, very good. We just need to subtly change the narrative. Start listening to the players and coaches and their post game interviews, every time they open their mouths. This will be the glimmer.

db

by **bobheckler** Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:14 pm

dbrown4 wrote:There has been something bugging me that finally woke me up from a dead sleep last night. This isn't a glimmer unfortunately, it's initially a gloomer.

Over the years, I have taken to listening to the words that come out a players, coaches, teams' mouths that are in contention for a title. They speak a very different language than everyone else. Just like when you talk to a CEO of a major corporation or hear them speak. They speak a different language.

The team's that wind up winning the title year in and year out all say and do the same things and the team that makes it to the finals and lose all say the same thing(s) up to that point.

The championship team typically is extremely one-minded and focused but not aloof. They are complimentary of their competition, never derogatory and stick with the general talking points the coach is blaring into their ears.

While they are fun to watch all season from the fans perspective because winning covers a lot of high stumps, they don't rejoice during the regular season when they win or get way down on themselves when they occasionally lose a game. Their rejoicing is set for when they hoist the trophy in the Finals.

But you can tell from every pore and every ounce of their being they are focused on one thing and one thing only...The Title. They don't exactly come out and say it, but each game is a small stepping stone. Some is blatant, but most is subtle.

LAL came out with one of their secrets just the other day. It caught me by surprise as it should all of us. One of their goals is to not lose two games in succession. Wow! That's not saying anything about a championship but the last team that did that was in the finals and went to a Game 7 there before running out of steam. Very subtle. It has Championship written all over it. You have to read between the lines.

We've spent all of our first 21 games trying to overhaul chemistry and get everyone off the injured reserve list. I can assure you this leaves little or no time to focus on Championship Speak and goal setting for that of any kind. When you're in a wreck, everything comes to a stop. Literally. Last year was that wreck. Then this year starts with the same injury bs plus the chemistry reset.

One thing Championship-bound teams do not EVER say is the following:

"We're just happy to be here!" THAT is the curse of death. EVERY TEAM I have heard say that comes home empty handed. EVERY TIME...without fail.

Now I know we had a lot of expectations coming into last year that did not materialize. And we have a right to be happy with our current team's AMAZING turnaround with all the personnel changes and enjoy watching a team that is fun to watch. Thank God we have all the banners behind us that prove we know what we are talking about and management that has the ability to first re-focus the narrative and then deliver that to the players and put a new mantra in place.

Most of ESPN's stories, if you can find them, are focusing on how happy the Celtics are. That is great. Chemistry was a huge problem last year and happy players makes up about 95% of chemistry IMHBAO. But we can be happy after hoisting the O'Brien Trophy in 6 months.

I don't know what the LAL's (TJ please feel free to insert your observations) and MIL's overall press stories are all about but I'll again bet my wife's paycheck that "happy" or "fun" aren't the lead words or focus of the story. ESPN and the media have now set their feet in concrete and it's a MIL vs. LAL Finals, like it or not. Maybe a spoiler alert with LAC but as you can see LA can't serve two masters. And LAC is just beginning to show they aren't ready for prime time and are bowing out early for that spoiler alert. I have believe MIL and LAL are reading their own press clippings and are believing that as well. It helps when everyone is in your corner cheering you on. We aren't in the picture yet as a spoiler to the prom. And we are the only one's in our corner on a national level.

The narrative for the Celtics and players needs to begin changing/redirected...and the sooner the better. Internally of course. And we know to what. The press will begrudgingly lag behind the Celtics progress. We all know this. The next goal that needs to be achieved is determining whether we are 3 more games better than MIL this year. If we're going to take that ECF series 7 games and more than likely it will other things equal, we have to win 4. Those are the rules. If we can't get by MIL, there is no Finals.

All I am saying is, we know what's around the corner. We are consistently beating the top teams and when we lose to them it isn't by much and typically it's on their court. We are beating the teams we should be beating. Right now what I'm afraid of is in this game of inches, we have shot ourselves in the foot early on by losing to SAC and BKN. Those two games may be the difference between one more round of 4 games at home and watching the playoffs from home. With those two as wins and beating an LAC or DEN with the change of a ball bounce, we'd have the best record in the league. We're still very, very good. We just need to subtly change the narrative. Start listening to the players and coaches and their post game interviews, every time they open their mouths. This will be the glimmer.

db

DB,

Whoa. A truly excellent and insightful post. You are dead-nuts on. One of the things that separated the Russell Celtics from every other team is that, when they lost, they thought it was a mistake and came out the next game to prove it.

I think Brad tries to do this by focusing on detail, on each possession, but it has to come from the players too. Maybe they do think like this, and they're just not telling the press, but I think it would do everybody well if they did.

bob

.

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