Post Game Thread - vs Hawks, Home 1/3/20

[bobheckler]

If we only get two it should be Jaylen Brown.  After that "WTF is this?!" 19-point 1st quarter where we shot 26.9% from the floor and 11 of those points came from the unlikely duo of Theis and Smart (the trio of Hayward, Tatum and Brown were a combined 2-14 after 1) it was Jaylen Brown who didn't let Trae Young blow us out of our own building.  He was 0-3 in that 1st frame but improved to 3-7 by halftime (a 3-4 2nd quarter).  5 of those 11 points he had were from 5-6 shooting at the line.  He's now up to 75% on this frito shooting this season and that is not only a remarkable improvement over his career average it is also going to get him to the All-Star Game because his ftas are up significantly too.  He has added another 1.3 ppg to his average from the line alone.  If 20 ppg is the magical number we expect to see from an All-Star then those 1.3 additional ppg is what put 20.6 ppg Jaylen Brown over the top.  He tied his career high last night with 10 ftas.  Last night he broke the game open in the 4th with 7 straight points.  9 points in the 4th on 3-3 shooting in the 4th and 3 ftas in the 4th to counter Trae Young's 5 points.  Jaylen Brown has been our best rim runner this season I think.  He gets out there on the fast break a lot.  And let's not forget his 10 rebounds.  He's averaging 7.0 rpg and that's really good for a guard.  His eFG%, which is a stat that calculates what his fg% is taking into account the extra points for 3ptrs, is 59%.  That's unreal for a guard.  Jimmy Butler's is 45.4%.  Khris Middleton's is 55.2, and he's playing with elite playmaker Giannis and that will raise the number of open shots he gets.  Luka's is 54.8%.  I'm not trying to say Jaylen is as good as Luka, Luka's offensive game is much more comprehensive than Brown's and, as much as I love Jaylen Brown, I would trade him in a NY second for Luka.  Jaylen Brown's shooting efficiency, however, is elite.  I don't know what clicked in his head this off-season but his shooting discipline and mental focus has jumped several quanta.  

Chris Forsberg @ChrisForsberg_
yesterday
Hawks coach Lloyd Pierce, an assistant with Team USA, on Jaylen Brown’s development. "Blame Pop. … If he does any damage to us, I'm going to have to text Pop and tell him, ‘Thank you.' … Huge jump, tremendous jump great person, great player."

Tatum was 2-16.  He was 9-10 from the line, so credit to him for getting to the line and hitting them, but just an awful shooting night.  Tatum might get the 2nd All-Star nod because his scoring average is slightly higher than Jaylen's (21.3 vs 20.6) and because the league is annointing Tatum as the next Paul Pierce, but Jaylen deserves it.  He is FAR more efficient than Jayson.  FAR, FAR more efficient and efficiency means fewer empty possessions and fewer empty possessions is how you win games, especially playoff games.

Overall, 6 players in double-digits, only one over 20.  That's nice contributions from a bunch of players.  Theis kept us in the game in that awful 1st quarter.  Double-double machine Kanter with 14 and 11 (5 of them offensive) and 2 blocks.  Saint Enes has finally found Defensive Religion, Praise The Lord!  Once again Miracle Worker Brad Stevens has taken a player who had something inside of them they never quite knew how to exploit and brought it out of them.  This is making Danny's reclamation projects easier to sign.  Between IT and Evan Turner and Jae Crowder the word is getting out that Brad will make you better and now I think we can add Enes Kanter to that list, and he knows it.

Brian Robb @BrianTRobb
yesterday
Evan Turner on the #Celtics:" They've been doing well so I am happy for them. Obviously, I only knew Marcus but Tatum, Brown, all those guys are playing pretty well. Most important, I'm happy for Brad. That's what it's all about right?"

Hayward is doing his "slow white boy" thing and just going where he wants and doing what he wants.  He is finishing very well through contact.  We needed him to have a good game with Kemba out (and especially with Tatum having such an off night) and he stepped up.  He's our Swiss Army Knife, the guy taking Big Al's place as a veteran leader and all-round glue guy.  Let's not forget how easy it would have been for Gordon Hayward to come to Boston, All-Star and all, and assumed he was going to start and get X number of touches and Y number of shots.  He has come off the bench, he has started, never a peep either way from him.  I think he and Kemba's laid-back "I'm a star but I don't need to strut it" style is why this is working so well.  The locker room is free of over-sized egos.  Nobody is needing to be kept in check.

Other than our 3pt shooting and our lackluster 1st quarter we did ok without Kemba.  Our defensive energy picked up in the 2nd half and that's what won it.

The refs were awful.  I say this knowing we won and that we got double the ftas from them.  They were just awful.  Both teams were playing 80'-90's bully ball, TONS of contact, and no whistles.  Personally, I like the good ol' days, but that was then and this is now.  Don't blow '80s ball tonight and then move on and blow a '20s game tomorrow somewhere else.  Pick an era/decade and stick with it until you get good at it...if ever.

Smart terrorizing anybody and everybody he could post up.  How the Hell does a guard become such a good post-up player?  15 points, 6 rebounds, 9 assists and only 1 turnover is a damn fine night for a player who doesn't give a shit about his boxscore.

Sean Grande @SeanGrandePBP
yesterday
Marcus Smart's game-winning 3 Friday night was his 252nd at TD Garden. That moved him passed Avery Bradley into 4th on that list. 3-POINTERS MADE - TD GARDEN HISTORY Paul Pierce - 972 Antoine Walker - 438 Ray Allen - 426 MARCUS SMART - 252 Avery Bradley - 251

Jared Weiss @JaredWeissNBA
yesterday
Enes Kanter loves Marcus Smart: "We should all feel blessed to have a teammate like him...Not just on the court, off the court, he brings so much energy, so much toughness, & so much to the table that we should all feel blessed to have a teammate and a friend like Marcus."

Trae Young is who we thought/expected Carsen Edwards would be.  Young's shot is dropping and Edwards' is not.  The question is not "if" it will, Edwards has that same range, but "when".  He'll be with the team in Chicago tonight.  Young was unreal last night.  30+'ers, no problem.  I still have confidence in Carsen, this is what he does too, and I think his defense is better than Young's.  Smart was posting up Trae Young like he was Thanksgiving dinner.  I'm sure he could do it to Carsen too, and probably does in practice, but Carsen'd give him more of a fight I think.  Hell, Carsen's thighs are bigger than Trae's shoulders.  For all his points scored and minutes played Trae Young has a -5 Net Rating (OffRtg - DefRtg).

Credit to Atlanta for playing hard.  They are an absolutely crappy defensive team but they played very good defense last night, better than us for the 1st half.  The return of John Collins might have something to do with that.  Collins fell on his tailbone last night contesting Jayson Tatum and they both went down.  Collins limped to the locker room and didn't return and that might have been the sliver of an advantage we needed to pull this game out.  Theis with the potential game-saving block on Trae Young's winning 3-ball.  He knew Young wanted to win it, so he stuck to him.  I've been saying nice things about Kanter lately.  He's a double-double machine and his defense has been good, but I don't think he would have been quick enough on his feet to almost fall for Young's jab step, which Theis did, and still be able to recover and block the shot, like Theis did.

Chris Grenham @chrisgrenham
yesterday
Marcus Smart: “We believe in Theis defensively and offensively.” *Theis smiling in background* Smart: “Shut up Theis.”


We are now in the gauntlet.  We have 22 games over the next 41 days.

Sean Grande @SeanGrandePBP
yesterday
Why are people are talking about the Celtics schedule changing tonight? Last 42 days: 16 games Next 42 days: 23 games Last 24 days: 9 games Next 14 days: 9 games Last 42 days: 6 road games Next 42 days: 10 road games Last 42 days: 2 back-to-backs Next 14 days: 3 back-to-backs


Vince Carter got a Coaches - DNP last night but he will play, eventually, and when he does he will be the first player in NBA history to play in 4 decades (90's, 00's, 10's, 20's).

Evan Turner is being sat as Atlanta tries to develop their kindergarten.  He is a potential buyout candidate as we approach the trade deadline.   Don't be surprised if he gets a call from Danny if he does get bought out.  The only reason why he didn't re-sign with us is because he got that ridiculous offer from Portland.  If he's bought out, and money's no object, everybody loves Evan Turner.  Danny.  Brad (and he loves Brad back).  The Celtic locker room and the media thinks he's the Second Coming of Quote Master Charles Barkley.


Brian Robb @BrianTRobb
yesterday
Jaylen Brown: “I believe in this team.”

So do I.

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401161159




bob


.

[worcester]

Wow. What a game and what a great writeup Bob.

[cowens/oldschool]

Wow. What a game and what a great writeup Bob.

Exactly

[kdp59]

why in the world would the Celtics want Evan Turner back here?


sorry, I don't see the need for another wing player with a questionable shot.

talk to me about a big man...yeah I can see that need. We have TWO playing at NBA level right now Kanter and Theis.......need one more from somewhere, especially before the playoffs start.

[cowens/oldschool]

Didn’t see the game live, but saw us getting abused by Collins in the game highlights bob provided. Collins is a good piece with borderline all star ability. He might not get in or have the stats, but he’s got real all around ability and took him a few years to develop into that, like our own young developing big RWill he has durability issues. We are going to be playing a lot of games during this stretch, thank god not all the teams are elite and we have a deep team.

Jayson with a stinker, he had an earlier 1-18 game that somehow we won, like I said that’s depth and we must be a very good defensive team to win games where he’s so off, which we are. Haven’t seen 2 J’s put up good games on 2nd night of b2b, will be good challenge for them, the greats, the Bird and Pierce’s could do that. You want to be great, you really have to earn it in this league, Tatum is only 21, we know when he is in a zone he can go off on anybody, good test for him tonight, we know how Pierce and Bird would respond. I am loving Enes Kantor, forget his ridiculous contract, right now just on ability I wouldn’t trade him even up for Al Horford. NY Celt had mentioned the comeback of bigs is coming on another thread and if we had an old school Bob Lanier type, how great that would make ALL our pieces, well we might have that bear in Kantor. He can bang with the bigs in the paint, has great hands and is starting to get them on the ball defensively more and more, he will never be an elite perimeter defender, and that is what makes a big defender great in this era as KG was the mold for AD and Giannis.

Haven’t even mentioned Jaylen, if he’s not at his elite level both ends, no way do we win this game. Love how fast and explosively he can turn defense into offense, he is a turbo charged race car, once he gets that whiff of daylight and turns on the juice, it’s over. Not as whippet quick as the young Jordan, but stronger and bigger and more explosive, yep I said it, more ferocity. Jaylen is 225, I think Jordan at 23 was around 210, he got bigger later in his 30’s. I’m not comparing his game to the GOAT, just one aspect of his game. He has taken that next step, is great to see how good he is now night in and night out.

[dboss]

Bob that was an impressive piece you put together. Extraordinary flow.

Here is a question for everyone. With Brown and Hayward shooting so well should they be getting more shots and should Tatum and Walker be taking less?

[cowens/oldschool]

Bob that was an impressive piece you put together.  Extraordinary flow.

Here is a question for everyone.  With Brown and Hayward shooting so well should they be getting more shots and should Tatum and Walker be taking less?

That is the million dollar question and why Brad Stevens gets paid the big bucks. We’ve seen plenty of games where Larry Legend or Pierce would start cold and have 6-8 points at halftime, still help in other ways, then bam finish with over 30. I would say no and try to feed the hot hand, when Tatum or Kemba is in a zone, how do you not go to them and let them carry us and be great...??? Equally if Jaylen or GH is on, they need to get the shots too....

[bobheckler]

John Karalis  
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Jaylen Brown working on keeping his dribble through contact
https://twitter.com/RedsArmy_John/status/1213230316380459008


bob


.

[wideclyde]

Relating to which players should get more or fewer shots, I think that this year's team is so far ahead of last season is because there seems to be no one on the team who is concerned about how many shots anyone gets.

I am sure that this is one of the main reasons that the 2019-20 team has been so much more fun to watch and follow. Unselfishness is a great quality for any team to exhibit.

Bob, also thanks for such a great post to start this thread.

[bobheckler]

why in the world would  the Celtics want Evan Turner back here?


sorry, I don't see the need for another wing player with a questionable  shot.

talk to me about a big man...yeah I can see that need. We have TWO playing at NBA level right now Kanter and Theis.......need one more from somewhere, especially before the playoffs start.

kdp,

I'd rather add height and bulk myself also but John Hollinger, who was VP Basketball Operations for the Grizzlies and is still with them in another capacity, is reporting that the Celtics have an eye open for a wing, not a center/PF.

https://celticswire.usatoday.com/2019/12/23/nba-boston-celtics-hollinger-trade-for-wing/


bob


.

[dboss]

Bob awesome still photo of Brown.

Wyde of course the hot hand should get the rock.  I am not talking about that.  My question is really about scoring efficiency and shot distribution.  Should Tatum be getting more shots than Hayward and Brown?  

Brown takes 14.7 FGA and Hayward only takes 12.9

Tatum is putting up 18.3 FGA per game.  Is JT 5.4 shots per game better than Gordon?  Is he 2.6  attempts better than Jaylen.  I think the answer is no.      

Just maybe JT should be closer to 16 and Hayward should be closer to 15.

I think this is about decision making which impacts shot selection.  I love all 3 of our wings but so far this year Tatum is not scoring efficiently.  I hate seeing high volume scoring leaders with poor efficiency numbers.

[worcester]

One of the reasons Hayward is one of tge 2 best players on our team, JB being the other, is that he does not demand the shot but makes them available for others. I love both those guys, and Kemba, ans Marcus. And Enes. And Daniel, and Jayson who is still a pup and will be more efficient when he eventually reaches the ripe old age of 22.

[bobheckler]

.

Game ball to Theis.






Jaylen, seeing the likely pass out by Trae Young to Collins after drawing the double team from Theis, and leaving his man to intercept AND THEN having the maturity to allow Collins to fly past him for the easy layup.





bob


.

[dboss]

One of the reasons Hayward is one of tge 2 best players on our team, JB being the other, is that he does not demand the shot but makes them available for others. I love both those guys, and Kemba, ans Marcus. And Enes. And Daniel, and Jayson who is still a pup and will be more efficient when he eventually reaches the ripe old age of 22.

Hayward is the most well rounded player on this team. As Brown and Tatum mature they too can add facilitation to their resume. PG skills is what makes him our top guy. The Celtics are a different team when all 3 wings are on the floor.

[dboss]

The more Kanter plays the better he looks. Him and Theis have been a pretty good tag team.

A healthy RW adds a 3rd element as a solid screener, lob target, rebounder and rim protector.

As Romeo gets more reps our guard/ wing depth off the bench will become better.

This is turning into a pretty exciting team to watch.

[cowens/oldschool]

The more Kanter plays the better he looks.  Him and Theis have been a pretty good tag team.

A healthy RW adds a 3rd element as a solid screener, lob target, rebounder and rim protector.
 
As Romeo gets more reps our guard/ wing depth off the bench will become better.

This is turning into a pretty exciting team to watch.  

Our center tandem went for 28 points 17 rebounds and 4 blocks yesterday, not too shabby, and not the first time they combined for these type of numbers.
I love that Kanter is starting to play better defense, I really think we do not need any help there, all we need is RWill to get and stay healthy and play to his strengths IMHO.

[bobc33]

John Karalis  
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Jaylen Brown working on keeping his dribble through contact
https://twitter.com/RedsArmy_John/status/1213230316380459008


bob


.

Great picture, and look at Kanter in the background!

We won the game, but one thing I questioned was in the 4th quarter it seemed Smart was by far our primary ball handler. I think he is better running the offense than he normally is given credit for, but would have preferred to see Hayward running the show. Not sure of Brad’s thinking on this. Smart is ok to good running the offense, Hayward to me is far superior at it.

[dboss]

Bobc33

Marcus is a PG and his assist/turnovers are slightly better than Hayward.  I find no fault with him running point down the stretch.  His 3 pointer was the shot of the game.

[dbrown4]

I am not really sure who is most invaluable to the team and one we simply cannot do without due to injury or the wheels start to come off, Marcus Smart or Kemba Walker. While Marcus held his own at point guard, it was evident that if this wasn't (one of) the worst team(s) in the league gunning for an overall #1 Pick, we would have been clobbered. Kemba was sorely missed. This game would have been a runaway if Kemba were in. Not even close.

We saw what life was like sans Marcus. Defense really slips. We can still outgun, but not against the elite teams.

C/OS, the key is have 4 players that can score 20+ppg and leave the defenses with no choice but to stay true to your assigned man. Now we have seen that getting everyone over 20 in one game is pretty much impossible unless you're playing WAS and the defense goes out the window. So that leaves the norm 2-3 players that should have 20+ppg night in/night out. We have 5 (including Smart and his other (in)tangibles that make his a virtual 20+ppg) that BOS can play hot potato with every night. Then throw in for kicks the Double Double Machine Kanter.

Again, if/when we finally get everyone healthy this will be real fun to watch! In the meantime, we are going to have to eek out victories like this one to the worst teams in the league and keep plodding along.

Finally and unfortunately, a game like this sends no message of fear to the league when we can't trounce the worst team in the league at home.

Drop it. On the Chicago. Hopefully we won't return the bright shiny gift MIA left for us vs. ORL last night.

db

[worcester]

ATL is not the worst team in the nba when John Collins is healthy and when Trae is hitting 30 footers, like last night

[kdp59]

why in the world would  the Celtics want Evan Turner back here?


sorry, I don't see the need for another wing player with a questionable  shot.

talk to me about a big man...yeah I can see that need. We have TWO playing at NBA level right now Kanter and Theis.......need one more from somewhere, especially before the playoffs start.

kdp,

I'd rather add height and bulk myself also but John Hollinger, who was VP Basketball Operations for the Grizzlies and is still with them in another capacity, is reporting that the Celtics have an eye open for a wing, not a center/PF.

https://celticswire.usatoday.com/2019/12/23/nba-boston-celtics-hollinger-trade-for-wing/


bob


.

I could see Saric, as the article says. Not sure he's a wing myself....more like a Marcus Morris type PF to me.

I don't even know if Turner can play anymore to be honest, even at Minimum he will take the roster spot of someone ( Green, Poirier, Edwards?).

[dboss]

I should point out Boston is 17-2 against sub .500 teams.  They are 7-6  against the good teams and they are 10-6 on the road and dominant at home at 14-2.

They have accomplished this despite losing 5 of their top 8 rotations guys from last year's team and having to play through injuries and lost man hours this season.

Only true contenders are able to accomplish these things. It is still early in the season but so far there should be little to complain about.  

I think Smart is the most indispensable player on this team.  Last night we missed Tatum not having his typical offensive production. Even with no Kemba we win easy with a few more makes from JT.

[KyleCleric]

Looking at shortened rotation, it does make sense looking to add further wing depth. There really would be a rotation at the 5 with two players they're comfortable with in Theis & Kanter, and with someone they seem to really like in Rob Williams. The rest would rotate at the 1 through 4. With Walker, Smart, Hayward, Brown, & Tatum, the Cs have a great start. They've been developing, working with a lot of different options within what the Cs have on the team now. Next up, certainly seems to be Wanamaker (not sure if they want Kemba, Wanamaker, & Smart on the floor together too many minutes) & Grant Williams. Adding someone who is a veteran wing, that they can rely on (maybe a strong multi-positional defender like Evan Turner) could make sense.

[tjmakz]

ATL is not the worst team in the nba when John Collins is healthy and when Trae is hitting 30 footers, like last night

Collins only played 22 minutes last night.
Atlanta should start playing better now that Collins is back.
Trae Young hits 30 footers virtually every game.
He takes and hits shots from the circle which is near half court.

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