Post Game Thread - vs Hawks, Home 2/17/21

[bobheckler]

I don't know wtf to think about this team anymore.

Trae Young with 40 points, 16-20, but only 4-9 from 3. That's an excellent fg% from 3, but only 12 out of his 40 points. That's poor defense. Jaylen made a comment on his post-game presser about how he needs to play for fouls like Young does. Basically he said Young is really good at selling contact where there isn't any. Regardless, we couldn't, and didn't, stop Trae Young. Didn't even slow him down.

Their frontcourt completely dominated ours. Thompson, with his 14 and 7, and Robert Williams with his 8 and 3, got roasted-and-toasted (credit to Walt Frazier) by Collins (20 and 6) and Capela (24 and 13). ZERO 3pt fgas for any of them. They shot a combined 16-22 and we shot a combined 10-13. That's awful. While Wiliams had a good game he still bites on every, single head fake. This is his 3rd year. It's time for him to start outgrowing that. He is, by this time, completely scouted. He'll get a head fake every time now.

PP 11 points but 1-5 from 3. Teague needs to go. Period. He's useless on both ends.

Slightly bigger picture our bench outplayed theirs. 18 points on 6-20 for them and 25 on 12-26 for us.

Jaylen ended up at 6-20, but he was 3-14 at one point. He had 7 assists and 3 turnovers.

They shot 57% for the game, but only 33% from 3. Furthermore, they took only 77 fgas and only 24 of them were 3s. Less than 1/3 of their fgas were 3s. That means they killed us from 2. Completely unacceptable.

On a slightly positive note Aaron Nesmith had a pretty good game. He only took 2 fgas but he got 6 rebounds. I've noticed that about him, he goes after boards. I said on the Game On! thread that his 2 points came on a dribble hand off (DHO). That was incorrect. Pritchard tried to get past his man above the break, couldn't, so he passed it to Nesmith in the corner. He was covered by Gallinari, who was right up on him in deference to his shooting, and Nesmith dribbled around him for a layup. Good read of what the defense was giving him by the rook. The 3pt fga, and miss, was off a weakside screen. That's a set play run for him.

I don't know. I just don't get it. What I think I see is that we are following people over screens instead of either fighting over them or going under them to prevent the curl, but maybe I'm wrong. As Brad has said on previous occasion "we couldn't stop a bloody nose". We had more fgas, comparable 3pt numbers and fritos and turnovers and steals and offensive rebounds. Where we got clobbered is points in the paint (60 vs 48) and fg% (57% vs 46%). I have a high regard for Theis, as much as anybody here, but I don't think he would have been the difference maker.

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401267598


Bob


.

[NYCelt]

Trae Young.

[dbrown4]

Perhaps it is time to remember the other side of our pre-season predictions for this team.

We all pretty much agreed that this team would be a .500 club at this point about a quarter of the way through the season. Clearly, they have not disappointed us here, except where we forget this is what we predicted.

But all of us pretty much also agreed that this team would figure it out and be rolling by the 3/4 point of the season gearing up for the playoff run.

Fortunately, we are not currently losing too much ground from 1st place as the East is very top heavy and they keep losing and winning in lock step. But each unexplained loss for us doesn't help. But the precipice for us is very steep and tenuous at best. A couple more losses where we should have won on our end and we're looking at 12th place and out of the playoffs.

db

[cowens/oldschool]

I’ve questioned the rotations before, but I’ll question the strategy, Trae Young is wispy, not a great defensive player at all. Why wasn’t he attacked at all? Stevens runs the same bland offense, try attacking another teams weakness, your supposed to be an innovator, since last years playoffs, just don’t see it. Glad RWill got some time, he was doing great, why take him out in 4th, as soon as he was taken out the lead by the Hawks increased....do I even have to comment how useless Teague was in his minutes?

[dboss]

I did not see the game last night because it was blacked out.  None of the Hawks games are available to me so I will miss the next two as well.

Many including myself predicted that Boston would go .500 through their 1st 20 games.  That's 10-10 however through 28 games we are 14-14.  My thoughts were that it would take a while for the chemistry to work with the addition of 2 rookies and 2 veteran free agent signings.  But as each game passes and the season moves forward (38.8% of 72 games have been played)  I am starting to think that maybe we are nothing more than a .500 team.  

Record wise we are closer to Brad's 2nd season where we finished up 40-42.  As we sit in 5th place,   a look up reveals every team has a quality big man.  The game has changed as it relates to an emphasis on 3 point shooting but the need for a legit center to be a legit contender has not changed.

I would like to think that when Marcus returns everything will fix itself.  But Marcus is not a center. Kemba Walker remains in maintenance protocol unable to play B2B in a season loaded with B2B games.

I hate to be pessimistic because pessimism can lead to negativism.  Yet I am a realist unable to see what is not there.  

It has been 12 years since we hung a banner.  It is time for big changes and that begins at the top of the food chain.  Danny Ainge needs to go along with Brad Stevens.  Ainge has made more bad moves than good and Stevens does not have a trace of championship level coaching DNA running through his veins.

Danny will not be able to fix his center issue this year so that means we lose again.  Danny is also saddled with a $90 plus million dollar contract on a guy who cannot cover his own position.  As this team slides down the ladder there is no quick fix on the horizon.  Even if we were able to make a trade for a guy like Harrison Barnes it will not fix the center position nor the PG situation.  Danny Ainge blew it and now Celtics fans have to suffer through another disappointing season while other teams are on the rise.  

I am pretty much through with Danny Ainge and Brad Stevens.  There must be consequence when you do not fulfill your promises.  He promised to build a contender in 5 years.  Sorry but he doesn't get 10 years instead.

[worcester]

Barnes is not leaving Sacto per Doug Christie.

[bobheckler]

Jared Weiss @JaredWeissNBA
about 2 hours ago
Trae Young drove Jaylen Brown & Jayson Tatum insane last night drawing all sorts of absurd foul calls. Good. They need to learn from the young Jedi master of grifting, who knows how to truly control a game with his physicality.


Mark Murphy @Murf56
yesterday
Tristan Thompson: “It’s about time we lit a fire under each other’s ass. If I see something I’m going to say it.”



Jared Weiss
Jared Weiss @JaredWeissNBA
yesterday
Tristan Thompson: "We are no longer the hunters. We are the hunted. 3 Conference Finals in 4 years. With having that kind of success, teams circle us on their calendar. So having Saddiq Bey have 30 and guys having career nights against us, that's unacceptable."


Jared Weiss @JaredWeissNBA
yesterday
Tristan Thompson: "We can't rely on the coach to give us energy. We can't rely on the fake sound."


Mark Murphy @Murf56
yesterday
Jaylen Brown on what can be learned from how Trae Young draws fouls: “I guess that’s the league we in. I gotta find a way to get some of those calls. Maybe I’m driving to the basket and exaggerating contact. Just try to adjust to how the league is being called I guess.”


Bob


.

[Ktron]

I did not see the game last night because it was blacked out.  None of the Hawks games are available to me so I will miss the next two as well.

Many including myself predicted that Boston would go .500 through their 1st 20 games.  That's 10-10 however through 28 games we are 14-14.  My thoughts were that it would take a while for the chemistry to work with the addition of 2 rookies and 2 veteran free agent signings.  But as each game passes and the season moves forward (38.8% of 72 games have been played)  I am starting to think that maybe we are nothing more than a .500 team.  

Record wise we are closer to Brad's 2nd season where we finished up 40-42.  As we sit in 5th place,   a look up reveals every team has a quality big man.  The game has changed as it relates to an emphasis on 3 point shooting but the need for a legit center to be a legit contender has not changed.

I would like to think that when Marcus returns everything will fix itself.  But Marcus is not a center. Kemba Walker remains in maintenance protocol unable to play B2B in a season loaded with B2B games.

I hate to be pessimistic because pessimism can lead to negativism.  Yet I am a realist unable to see what is not there.  

It has been 12 years since we hung a banner.  It is time for big changes and that begins at the top of the food chain.  Danny Ainge needs to go along with Brad Stevens.  Ainge has made more bad moves than good and Stevens does not have a trace of championship level coaching DNA running through his veins.

Danny will not be able to fix his center issue this year so that means we lose again.  Danny is also saddled with a $90 plus million dollar contract on a guy who cannot cover his own position.  As this team slides down the ladder there is no quick fix on the horizon.  Even if we were able to make a trade for a guy like Harrison Barnes it will not fix the center position nor the PG situation.  Danny Ainge blew it and now Celtics fans have to suffer through another disappointing season while other teams are on the rise.  

I am pretty much through with Danny Ainge and Brad Stevens.  There must be consequence when you do not fulfill your promises.  He promised to build a contender in 5 years.  Sorry but he doesn't get 10 years instead.

Game should not have been blacked out. League pass is having a free week this week. Usually that clears all games.

[Ktron]

Why in Geezus’ name did we not at least make an attempt to trap Trae? I have seen other teams do it. There was a time during the game when Hueuter (whatever his name) was the only other shooter out there besides Trae. If he ends up beating us so be it. But take the ball out of his hands. Brad never does it. Dude was doing what he wanted out there and we never adjusted. How many times have we seen that?
Scal said if we trap him he’ll pick us apart with his passing. Perk totally disagreed and said the same thing I said, so make someone else beat you. Perk also said that he has seen other teams Trap Trae and it has minimized him to a point where others had to make shots. Young was getting easy buckets way too easy. I also agree with Cowens, we never sent anyone at him to make him defend.

[worcester]

I've seen a batter at the plate make more adustments in a single at bat to his jock strap than Brad makes to his offense and defense in sn entire season.

[Ktron]

I know a lot of us have been saying that we expected this team to be 10-10 after 20 games. But I think we looked at the losses coming from the better teams that we ended up beating. I don’t think anyone here thought that we would lose 2 games to Detroit 1 to the Bullets (Wizards or whatever) and 1 to the Hawks). So that changes the picture just a bit doncha think? We are not as good as we thought we were when we thought we were going to be 10-10.

[Ktron]

I did not see the game last night because it was blacked out.  None of the Hawks games are available to me so I will miss the next two as well.

Many including myself predicted that Boston would go .500 through their 1st 20 games.  That's 10-10 however through 28 games we are 14-14.  My thoughts were that it would take a while for the chemistry to work with the addition of 2 rookies and 2 veteran free agent signings.  But as each game passes and the season moves forward (38.8% of 72 games have been played)  I am starting to think that maybe we are nothing more than a .500 team.  

Record wise we are closer to Brad's 2nd season where we finished up 40-42.  As we sit in 5th place,   a look up reveals every team has a quality big man.  The game has changed as it relates to an emphasis on 3 point shooting but the need for a legit center to be a legit contender has not changed.

I would like to think that when Marcus returns everything will fix itself.  But Marcus is not a center. Kemba Walker remains in maintenance protocol unable to play B2B in a season loaded with B2B games.

I hate to be pessimistic because pessimism can lead to negativism.  Yet I am a realist unable to see what is not there.  

It has been 12 years since we hung a banner.  It is time for big changes and that begins at the top of the food chain.  Danny Ainge needs to go along with Brad Stevens.  Ainge has made more bad moves than good and Stevens does not have a trace of championship level coaching DNA running through his veins.

Danny will not be able to fix his center issue this year so that means we lose again.  Danny is also saddled with a $90 plus million dollar contract on a guy who cannot cover his own position.  As this team slides down the ladder there is no quick fix on the horizon.  Even if we were able to make a trade for a guy like Harrison Barnes it will not fix the center position nor the PG situation.  Danny Ainge blew it and now Celtics fans have to suffer through another disappointing season while other teams are on the rise.  

I am pretty much through with Danny Ainge and Brad Stevens.  There must be consequence when you do not fulfill your promises.  He promised to build a contender in 5 years.  Sorry but he doesn't get 10 years instead.

Seriously, The more I think about it..Maybe Andre Drummond could help this team. (Excuse me while I duck)

[dboss]

ktron the game was black out because The Hawks and Braves have their games televised on Fox Sports South. YouTube TV used to carry that station until recently. They were not able to negotiate a new contract with Sinclair Broadcast Group. So even though I have NBA team pass (Celtics) I cannot watch the Hawks because FSS is considered a local channel and as such they maintain broadcasting rights just like NBC Sports Boston.

With regards to employing a trap to get Young off the ball, of course it is what you have to do when a guy is on fire. But the lack of a defensive strategy by Barf Stevens is not a new issue. It is an ongoing issue because Brad Stevens is obtuse in they way he goes about making needed in game adjustments. Trae averages 9.3 assists per game but turns it over quite a bit at 4.3 per game. Last night he had 8 assists and 8 turnovers. I would have trapped his little ass at half court and knocked him around all game long,

[dboss]

ktron if the cavs are willing to take back kardashiann infested Tristian Thompson, I am all in on Drummond.  

[Vankisa]

I know a lot of us have been saying that we expected this team to be 10-10 after 20 games. But I think we looked at the losses coming from the better teams that we ended up beating. I don’t think anyone here thought that we would lose 2 games to Detroit 1 to the Bullets (Wizards or whatever) and 1 to the Hawks). So that changes the picture just a bit doncha think? We are not as good as we thought we were when we thought we were going to be 10-10.

Yeah... have to +1, exactly my feeling about the 10-10. Also it is now 14-14 so that is different as well. We did NOT think we would be a 50-50 team at halfway through did we?

[Vankisa]

I will say something unpopular now as I was emboldened by the Drummond talk.

Do I think Drummond is a better "fit" than Thompson? No!
Do I want a theoretical Thompson-Drummond trade? I DO!

I would also welcome Barnes, PJ Tucker, you name it. Any qualified body to fill in the blanks. Why? Because I do believe this team is broken as it is at the moment:

Brad seems stuck in the mud. I know I am one of the bash-Brad guys, but I do not believe he is a bad coach. I do not believe he is a great coach anymore though. And I dislike how inflexible he is when push comes to shove. You might be XO wizard all you like, but when you are not willing to adjust the simple strategies you won't find the success you want is my guess.

The team seems to not play defense most games this season. I had a guess at some point that it was because we are so used to under Brad to play with multiple good wing defenders and the subtraction of Hayward and Wannamaker (YES Wannamaker) really hurt us in that department. Having a good defensive center should work for a defense that is not so wing oriented, but we either have none (meaning TT is useless to us) or we have not learned how to utilize it.

Danny's offseason seems to have deteriorated both the defense(especially) and the offense.

All this combined makes me believe we are on the cusp of not just losing any hope of a Final's appearance this year, but also creating a bad precedent for the Js, showing them no support in their first year where they are actually and officially the MEN on the team.

So in the end I believe we need a catalyst for a change. I do not KNOW which would be the best one, but I feel strongly we need one. A trade for someone new that can help, change the dynamic, trigger the change is perhaps the LEAST panful way I can think of. I would not want to start changing Coaches or Managers in the middle of the season. Other than some miracle by Marcus Smart I do not see any other catalysts for change incoming.

And let's face it, other than Js + MS everyone else, including Kemba is just non-essential. We need ESSENTIAL personnel. Role players that matter are not ones you can clump together under 6-15 (or as I did 3-15).

[Ktron]

ktron the game was black out because The Hawks and Braves have their games televised on Fox Sports South.  YouTube TV used to carry that station until recently.  They were not able to negotiate a new contract with Sinclair Broadcast Group.  So even though I have NBA team pass (Celtics)  I cannot watch the Hawks because FSS is considered a local channel and as such they maintain broadcasting rights just like NBC Sports Boston.

With regards to employing a trap to get Young off the ball, of course it is what you have to do when a guy is on fire.  But the lack of a defensive strategy by Barf Stevens is not a new issue.  It is an ongoing issue because Brad Stevens is obtuse in they way he  goes about making needed in game adjustments.  Trae averages 9.3 assists per game but turns it over quite a bit at 4.3 per game.  Last night he had 8 assists and 8 turnovers.  I would have trapped his little ass at half court and knocked him around all game long,  

Exactly. I don’t get why he was left free to run amok for the entire game especially the 4th. Ive seen this time and time again. I guess he has his reasons. Sure would like to know what they are. His points were coming so easy even he couldn’t believe it.

I think if you have the NBA app on IPad or mobile device during a free week you may be able to pick up the game. Sorry you weren’t able to witness the debacle. :>}

[Ktron]

ktron if the cavs are willing to take back kardashiann infested Tristian Thompson, I am all in on Drummond.  

Upgrade. No doubt.

[Ktron]

I know a lot of us have been saying that we expected this team to be 10-10 after 20 games. But I think we looked at the losses coming from the better teams that we ended up beating. I don’t think anyone here thought that we would lose 2 games to Detroit 1 to the Bullets (Wizards or whatever) and 1 to the Hawks). So that changes the picture just a bit doncha think? We are not as good as we thought we were when we thought we were going to be 10-10.

Yeah... have to +1, exactly my feeling about the 10-10. Also it is now 14-14 so that is different as well. We did NOT think we would be a 50-50 team at halfway through did we?

I never thought we’d be 10-10 or 14-14. Shows how much I know. The record doesn’t bother me as much as those losses to DC Detroit ATL and SAC. Uggg

[cowens/oldschool]

It’s a combination of a lot of things, the schedule has exhausted this team, 2 J’s while talented are new to carrying and creating for the team. Jaylen is a little nicked up and Tatum is recovering from covid fatigue. A bad draft, last years, bad FA signings and a stubborn coach who seems to have stopped being innovative as other coaches seem to be a step ahead of him. Last year we could always have both of J’s and GH or one of J’s and GH or just 2 J’s on the floor at all times, we had the best wing talent and wing depth in the L. We were a match up nightmare. Now alot of time it’s just 1 J on the floor as the other needs to rest. It seems we went from a free wheeling multiple attack offense with 4 players avg between 18 and 23 points and 3 players above 20 to an inexperienced team relying on too much hero ball in tight situations. GH’s movement and ball movement game really complimented the J’s.

That injury to GH last year, really hurt our identity and depth. I would have loved to see how great last years team would have done with a healthy GH. We’ll never know what exactly were the reasons for GH leaving, but shame the window closed with his injury at the worst time last year. It’s going to take some time to get Nesmith, PP and Romeo if he ever suits up, up to speed. Good news is J’s are still young with their best basketball ahead of them. Like what I’m seeing from PP and Nesmith is evolving, hopefully he can be a 15-16 ppg scorer as he’s showing he can do other things besides shoot. A lot of factors all combined are showing me this may not be our year, but Tatum and Brown can only get better.

[cowens/oldschool]

Hate to pile on, but even Mike Gorman was preaching for more playing time for RWill according to Chris Forsborg. Also Teague played more minutes in the 2nd half than PP, totally idiotic IMHO. Time to start the Timelord, Stevens has been way too behind the 8 ball this season. How do you not give more playing time to a guy shooting 72% FG that jumps out of the gym?

[worcester]

Cow, basically I agree with you about RWill, except for these two words: head fake. RWill's D is faulty because he falls for them way too often. He needs big man coaching.

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