Classical Rant from a Disgruntled Fan

Ktron wrote:

dboss wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:Terry may be a starting level guard, but he is no where near good enough to be a starter on a championship or contending team. Kemba Walker is an all star who can put up 40 on a given night. Terry never has been that good a player. Kemba is in the top 5 or 6 of pg's in the league. Terry is not even as good as George Hill or Joe Harris, hes not even in the top 30....

Well this year he was pretty good.  Joe Harris by the way is a wing.  And he is better than the ancient George Hill.  Making up stuff is a weak argument.

The numbers this year tell a different story.

IMO, TR shouldn’t be mentioned in the same breath as KW. Numbers are numbers and they can be used in a (pardon the pun) number of ways but in no way would I have kept Rozier around with the belief that he could be a started and help us win a championship. Let Danny, Wyc and the other guys figure out the dollars.

Belief that he could be a starter and help us win a championship is laughable, thanks I needed that!! Hope my wifi and cable come back, what a year🥵

Cow

It is laughable that you cannot answer a relatively simple question.  

Is Kemba Walker worth $84,000,000 more than former Celtics Terry Rozier.

Before you answer, I have snack for you but if you start laughing you might choke on it and I am too far away to rush over to your house and perform the heimlich maneuver.

Last year looked to me like an outlier year for Terry.  I do believe that he is a starting quality point guard and I think that he proved that this year with Charlotte.  The numbers are there to see.  

His 18 PPG average was good for #14 among all PG's in the league.  His 40.7 % from deep was good for #3 among all PG's in the league.  He average 6.7 3 point attempts per game.  He average 34.3 MPG.  He is clearly a starting level PG that could easily be part of a championship run.  Still not convinced.  Let's take a closer look at his playoff resume as a starting PG.

During our 2018 playoff run,  Terry Rozier play 19 games.  He also started all 19 games. You may not remember that but I posted a link for his game log numbers below.

In round 1, he smoked the Bucks while averaging 17.6 PPG, 4.3 assists and a whopping 6.7 rebounds.  He shot 39.1 % from deep and 81% from the line.  He gave up a stingy 1.6 turnovers per game.

In round 2 against the Sixers he average 19 PPG with 4.4 assists and 7.2 rebounds.  He shot 39.4% from deep and averaged only 1 turnovers.

In the ECF against Cleveland he struggled shooting the ball and the now infamous 0-10 from deep in game 7 stands out like a sore thumb.  He averaged 13.6 PPG with 5.7 assists and 4.9 rebounds.  We lost that series in 7 games.  Win it and we are in the finals.  Games 7 is a blur to me but what I remember most was game 6 that we lost because Al Horford was awful.  Terry had a signature game scoring 28 points with 7 assists and 1 turnover.  He shot 10-16 from the field including a blistering 6-10 from deep.

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/3074752/type/nba/year/2018

Kemba Walker is a better offensive player than Terry but that gap is clearly not that wide.  The question is not about who is better today.   The question is one of value vs productivity and how that relates to salary.  I say again, Kemba Walker is not worth a
whopping cap killing $84,000,000 more that Terry.  To believe so is laughable.

I believe gyso explained how the cap works so your figure is actually inflated. Your pointing out stats, okay you want to be a stat guy go ahead. In real time, not hindsight Terry wore out his welcome here. I and others were glad to see him go, let me know when he makes his first all star game, then we can start a comparison. Kemba could avg over 20 in his sleep on that Hornet team with their lack of firepower everywhere, I'm not impressed with his stats with bench players in starting roles, like TR himself. Where did he ever start? Oh right now hes the starter, but not at point, okay you love the tweener, good for you.

Using basic stats can be nice,
Before going all in I'd think twice,
Before you are through,
It smells much like poo,
I'd rather we discuss guys like Theis.



JT is firmly in our rear view mirror, right where that secondary PITA belongs.
He wasn't going to re-sign here, Danny and company didn't want him, tout fini!

cowens/oldschool wrote:I believe gyso explained how the cap works so your figure is actually inflated. Your pointing out stats, okay you want to be a stat guy go ahead. In real time, not hindsight Terry wore out his welcome here. I and others were glad to see him go, let me know when he makes his first all star game, then we can start a comparison. Kemba could avg over 20 in his sleep on that Hornet team with their lack of firepower everywhere, I'm not impressed with his stats with bench players in starting roles, like TR himself. Where did he ever start? Oh right now hes the starter, but not at point, okay you love the tweener, good for you.

Cow

I have a degree in Economic statistics so I apologize for using stats.  GYSO rightfully pointed out that we could not use the extra $12 million to sign someone.   That however does not make $84,000,000 MORE disappear like a fart in the wind.

He started 19 during the 2018 playoffs.  He started 63 game this year and had a very solid year.  You did not even read what I wrote.  You just blasted out another convoluted response that is completely devoid of facts.  I am only responding to you because you responded to me.

Even though this thread has more than one layer to it, you have not answered the central question.   GYSO is snoozing on this thread so please with all due haste answer the question before he falls fast asleep     Go on the record.

Is Kemba Walker worth $84,000,000 more than Terry Rozier?

I don't know and I don't care, I know when he left, the J's got better, so he made them better by leaving, so I'll say flip the numbers, it doesn't really matter to me, who does your eye test tell you plays better with 2 J's, Kemba this year or TR last year? Be honest, one guy can get his shot and create a better shot for 2 J's and the other guy can't feed players for shit and led the team no where. Is GH worth his contract? We had to pay Kemba market value, if anything Rozier is also overpaid, hes getting paid more than Marcus Smart, we all know who's better.

cowens/oldschool wrote:I don't know and I don't care, I know when he left, the J's got better, so he made them better by leaving, so I'll say flip the numbers, it doesn't really matter to me, who does your eye test tell you plays better with 2 J's, Kemba this year or TR last year? Be honest, one guy can get his shot and create a better shot for 2 J's and the other guy can't feed players for shit and  led the team no where. Is GH worth his contract? We had to pay Kemba market value, if anything Rozier is also overpaid, hes getting paid more than Marcus Smart, we all know who's better.

Thanks for answering the question.  NOT

Do you really think TR is a point guard? He can't really play point, limited vision and avg ball handling at best, some say hes athletic, but stats say he was a terrible finisher, so he puts up numbers on a crap team with some of the lamest frontcourt players in the L. Hes not a real point and obviously not an ideal 2, you like him good, but he wasn't a fit for this team based on his career at Boston.

Sam was our resident statistician., I really miss him.

dboss and cowens

I'm not snoozzing - in fact I love controversial subjects like this one. Down the road a few years, father time with hind sight may be able to declare a winner. At this point in time I'm just wondering if this past year was a once in a lifetime year for Terry or a breakout year after riding the bench for 4 years behind 2 outstanding point guards. A big plus to Terry for an outstanding first year as a starter for the Hornets - a little cloud over knee issues for Kemba.

swish

I'll go on record.

Me and the Celtics brass ALL think Kemba Walker is worth $85 Million Dollars more than the secondary PITA total non-Celtics acting selfish not starter quality player on a championship contending team Terry Rozier.  (may he rot in Charlotte)

But we could only give him $84 Million Dollars, because, salary cap rules are salary cap rules.

I feel better now, back to my nap.

worcester wrote:Sam was our resident statistician., I really miss him.

Me too

cowens/oldschool wrote:I don't know and I don't care, I know when he left, the J's got better, so he made them better by leaving, so I'll say flip the numbers, it doesn't really matter to me, who does your eye test tell you plays better with 2 J's, Kemba this year or TR last year? Be honest, one guy can get his shot and create a better shot for 2 J's and the other guy can't feed players for shit and  led the team no where. Is GH worth his contract? We had to pay Kemba market value, if anything Rozier is also overpaid, hes getting paid more than Marcus Smart, we all know who's better.

Good point$ on GH and Smart>Rozier.

dboss wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:Your argument that he is that good is weak, no one else sees it. One guy is a legit all star on 2 franchise's. The other guy has never been the best point on his own team ever and hes not a 2 either, hes a tweener not good enough to be a real point. I was really disappointed in him last year, after he had a good playoff the year before, there's a reason hes not here.

Cow the numbers speak for themselves.  All Terry needed was more playing time just like so many other young developing guys in this league.  Danny overspent for Walker.  I believed that he should have keep Terry and I said the same last year.  It is not hindsight.  It's Foresight.  

But don't get it twisted.  Walker is clearly the superior offensive player but that gap is closing.  But he is a weak defender.  Terry is a better defender and rebounder.  Plus he is 4 years younger and does not have a malady to be managed.   For the money given a need to retain both Hayward and Tatum there is no way on God's green earth that Walker is worth $84 million more than Rozier.  This is about value added acquisitions.  

Is anybody out there completely certain that Walker can lead us to a title?  What does his playoff resume look like?  Will his knee buckle the next time he makes a hard cut? Can he check Ben Simmons, Kyle Lowery or Bledsoe?  What about Brogdon or Dragic? can he adequately defend his own position against anyone?

The answer is NO.  Walker is a poor defensive player.

I think the Celtics would have been just as good of a team with TRo this year.

I think they would have been a better team if they keep Baynes and I think they would have been a better team adding a veteran or two instead of wasting multiple draft picks on a collection of scubs, most of whom will not be wearing an NBA uniform for long.

I really haven't seen too many games where I recall KW's defense hurt us or cost us. The best wings are covered by Jaylen and Smart usually goes against the best guards, as matter of fact I remember some on the board saying they like the way Kemba goes after it and that he can defend. Lately I noticed BS has even put JT on points for a stretch. Great offense will still beat good defense. Lavert put 51 on us and we have some of the best young wing defenders in the L and Devin Booker put up 60 on us and that was against Smart, Jaylen and Rozier, so Kemba wasn't involved in that one. I really don't see Kemba being as bad a defender who can't defend his position as you claim. If you want to claim a player like Kelly Olynck can't defend his position, I would agree with you and even call him a ragdoll, Kemba is not a ragdoll.

Ktron wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:I don't know and I don't care, I know when he left, the J's got better, so he made them better by leaving, so I'll say flip the numbers, it doesn't really matter to me, who does your eye test tell you plays better with 2 J's, Kemba this year or TR last year? Be honest, one guy can get his shot and create a better shot for 2 J's and the other guy can't feed players for shit and  led the team no where. Is GH worth his contract? We had to pay Kemba market value, if anything Rozier is also overpaid, hes getting paid more than Marcus Smart, we all know who's better.

Good point$ on GH and Smart>Rozier.

Hey dboss why don't you answer my question, by your eye test, who played/plays better with 2 J's Kemba this year or Rozier last year? You do realize 2 J's are centerpieces/foundation of the franchise and how they roll is how the franchise rolls.....???

gyso wrote:I'll go on record.

Me and the Celtics brass ALL think Kemba Walker is worth $85 Million Dollars more than the secondary PITA total non-Celtics acting selfish not starter quality player on a championship contending team Terry Rozier.  (may he rot in Charlotte)

But we could only give him $84 Million Dollars, because, salary cap rules are salary cap rules.

I feel better now, back to my nap.

Gyso I'm sorry I'm so unhip, what does PITA stand for?

swish wrote:dboss and cowens

I'm not snoozzing - in fact I love controversial subjects like this one. Down the road a few years, father time with hind sight may be able to declare a winner. At this point in time I'm just wondering if this past year was a once in a lifetime year for Terry or a breakout year after riding the bench for 4 years behind 2 outstanding point guards. A big plus to Terry for an outstanding first year as a starter for the Hornets - a little cloud over knee issues for Kemba.

swish

Swish I haven't really followed TR since he left. I didn't know he had an outstanding year. I followed him before, because we all follow the Celtics. When we played the Hornets this year, my son pointed out to me the player having a break out year was Devonte Graham...???

PITA = Pain in the a$$

Time will tell and I think it would be fun to revisit this subject down the road a bit. As of today I remain skeptical about the money and the future impact on this team.

Exactly Gyso!!!! That is exactly what he was. He was a kid with a massive ego who thought he was just as good as Tatum and Brown. Drove me nuts, and I believe drove Brad nuts some times too. If, for one minute, Danny had an inclination that he was the NEXT point guard for the Boston Celtics he would not have traded him. Yes, Kemba is worth every penny he makes just for what he brings to this team, he is "team" oriented, Rozier was out for #1, look at his comments after leaving. Shoveling crap on anyone he could. Good bye!! Let's move on to talking about that butt kicking the Celtics gave Toronto. That is more enjoyable.

Yes Worcester, I miss Sam so much just for his witt and knowledge of the game. But mostly for
just being Sam..

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Exactly Gyso!!!! That is exactly what he was. He was a kid with a massive ego who thought he was just as good as Tatum and Brown. Drove me nuts, and I believe drove Brad nuts some times too. If, for one minute, Danny had an inclination that he was the NEXT point guard for the Boston Celtics he would not have traded him. Yes, Kemba is worth every penny he makes just for what he brings to this team, he is "team" oriented, Rozier was out for #1, look at his comments after leaving. Shoveling crap on anyone he could. Good bye!! Let's move on to talking about that butt kicking the Celtics gave Toronto. That is more enjoyable.

Yes Worcester, I miss Sam so much just for his witt and knowledge of the game. But mostly for
just being Sam..

Very good point, for a player with very good shooting and scoring ability, I too noticed he also has a very team oriented game.

gyso wrote:PITA = Pain in the a$$

Lol got it

cowens/oldschool wrote:

gyso wrote:PITA = Pain in the a$$

Lol got it

Just so you know, we were able to get rid of two PITAs over last summer. TR is the one who I call the Secondary PITA, we also had a guy who I call the Royal PITA.

gyso wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:

gyso wrote:PITA = Pain in the a$$

Lol got it

Just so you know, we were able to get rid of two PITAs over last summer. TR is the one who I call the Secondary PITA, we also had a guy who I call the Royal PITA.

Right a shame hes even a bigger diva and PITA than his talents as a player, barely even played this year and got his coach fired.

you are nice, I refer to him as the player who shall remain nameless for the rest of his career