Re: Sam's Celtics Forum Who's Who

[bobheckler]

Bob, Dr. J's daughter was one of my patients. He never talked with or saw her in 21 years, which pretty much continually hurt her feelings. So although he was an incredible basketball player, one I loved to watch, I haven't been able to admire him as a man.

worcester,

Another "Henry Bibby" story. Hate them. I was in a relationship with a woman who had two teenagers. The boys father, who lives in CO, would hang up the phone every time the boy'd call him and he'd recognize the voice. Completely screwed the kid up, and I spent a ton of effort trying to work with and correct.

Good thing I never met him. I'd go to jail for just a fraction of the things I'd like to do to him.

bob

.

[Sam]

BSH,

My favorite all-time Celtic player is Bill Russell/Bob Cousy/Sam Jones/John Havlicek/Frank Ramsey/Jim Loscutoff/Tom Heinsohn/K.C. Jones/Tom Sanders/Clyde Lovellette/Dan Swartz/Gene Guarilia. I stick with my policy of caring about teams rather than individuals, and that was the 1962-63 team (which I feel was the greatest of all-time).

My favorite Celtics memory is (no surprise): THINK BALLOONS, BABY!

The agonizingly slow destruction of Boston Garden (4 blocks from where I lived) was a pretty sad moment, especially when I watched my season's ticket seats bite the dust. But my saddest Celtics moment was probably Red's passing, and I'm undoubtedly due to go through a succession of similar jolts over the next few years. But, in my mind, every bout of sadness will represent dues I'll willingly pay retrospectively for deriving more pleasure from the Celtics by the age of 32 than I could ever deserve in four lifetimes. It was, indeed, Basketball Camelot. Honorable mention for sadness would go to the retirement ceremonies for The Cooz and Sam Jones. I was on the committee for the latter and, at the ceremony, presented Sam with a replica of the new house he'd be building in Wheaton, MD, partly with money donated by the committee. Unfortunately his youngest son came up under the model and slammed his head into it, so I wound up with a crying child in one arm and balancing the scale model on the other.

Celtics met include Red Auerbach, Bob Cousy, Bill Russell, Sam Jones, John Havlicek, Tom Heinsohn, Tom Sanders, Bailey Howell, Don Nelson, Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, Gene Conley, Jack Nichols, Jim Loscutoff, Wayne Embry, Mal Graham, Rich Johnson, and Jim Ard. I also knew a whole slew of wives (and Tom Sanders' mother), because I sat right next to the wives one year when I couldn't get my regular seats.

I have a fair amount of memorabilia, including historic scorecards, a silver autographed #24 money clip presented to me by Sam Jones, wonderful photos, and some great home videos. But, frankly, the memorabilia that's most important to me is meticulously and (I hope) permanently stored between my ears.

Sam

[RosalieTCeltics]

You know Sam, that is exactly how I feel. The memories I have stored in my mind of all my great adventures watching the Celtics are some of the most important memories I have. I have some memorabilia, A basketball signed by the l986 team, many, many newspaper clippings stored from the l960's thru today, autographs, etc. The one thing I still have is my ticket to the l976 triple overtime game against Phoenix. I stood in line from 5:00am waiting to be
able to get tickets. I ended up sitting in the second balcony on the visitor's end of the court. Nothing will ever take away the memory of John Havlicek shooting that leaner to keep the Celtics in the game. I brought my Mom and Dad to that game along with my husband. My Mom was and still is a die hard fan. She will be 90 years old in September, and absolutely hates the offseason!

Memories are the best part of being a Celtic fan. I hope that they will remain
there forever so that I can one day tell my grandchildren what an important part the Celtics played in my life.

[Sam]

Rosalie, that leaner was an amazing shot! Given the geometry of the situation, the lack of arc on the ball, and the velocity with which he threw it, there was no possible way he could make it. But he did make it.


I really hope you and your husband will be able to make our party this coming Saturday. It would be a great pleasure to meet you.

Sam

[cowens/oldschool]

Sam,Rosalie
My voice is still horse from screaming during that game and right when that leaner fell in!!!!On another note,my youngest son Johnny who all at the NYC party met and who fell asleep during game 7 in 08 just as I did in game 7 with my father in 69 and I shared a bittersweet moment.As he was battling the elements watching this years game 6,trying to stay awake,the last thing he said was that we couldn't win without Perk,he was crying as he said it,he loves the Celtics that much.
cow

[RosalieTCeltics]

GOOD BOY!!!! MAKES YOU FEEL GREAT, DOESN'T IT??????

[tjmakz]

The only experiece I had with a former Laker is not a good one.
I used to work for a limousine company and frequently drove athletes/stars in the NJ/NYC area.
I was driving for a wedding in about 1988 and I drove the wedding party while the other limo drove the bride/groom and family.
In my car was Norm Nixon. We were all standing around because they were taking so many pictures, so I tried to make small talk with Norm and I told him how much of a Lakers fan I am. In this conversation and the whole time in the car, he was colder then ice. I don't know if he was having a bad day, but he made no effort to small talk or be conversational. I was very disappointed in my one and only Laker player experience.

[Sam]

TJ,

It's not unique to the Lakers. I met Bill Russell at least three times and, on one occasion, sought him out as a representative of the Sam Jones Day Committee from the town where both Sam and I happened to live. I caught Russ before the game as he and other early-comers were watching a junior high school game on the Garden court. I waited patiently until no one around him was speaking to him, and I asked if he and Rose would be honored guests at the celebration we were throwing for Sam. It took maybe 30-40 seconds.

He never looked at me. When I finished, he ever so imperceptibly shook his head in the negative. I thanked him for hearing me out, and there was absolutely no hint of a response.

And Nixon came along a lot later than Russ. As time has passed, a lot of these guys have developed a veneer to keep them at arm's length from the public. I have to cut them some slack because security issues have become far more pronounced over time. I'm sorry it happened though.

Sam

[RosalieTCeltics]

That was Russell's personality in those days. I believe he has mellowed a bit.
Look at when they first retired his number. He would have no part of the festivities. Yet, many years later, before Red passed away, he allowed them to re-retire his number and have a grand evening to celebrate. I was lucky, my husband works for the police department where we grew up and one of the policemen was fortunate enough to have access to someone with alot of tickets. He got two and gave them to me.

That evening was the most animated I had ever seen Russell. It was as if he was in love with the town of Boston, rather than holding them is such
disdain as he had for so many years. As I told you once before, a friend
of mine ran into Russ at a card signing show. She had two pictures from the newspaper who had printed it. It was of him and Larry Seigfried. He was so excited to see this picture, but would not sign her copy of it. He told her to give it to his aide, give him (her) her address and he would sign it later and mail it back. True to his word, she received her signed copy a month later.
He kept one copy of the picture for himself. But he was talkative and pleasant.

I guess time is a great healer. As far as Nixon is concerned, he had surrounded himself with Hollywood types for years. He was married to a
Hollywood star. I guess it rubbed off on him.

[cowens/oldschool]

I met Norm Nixon years ago at the China Club in NYC,he was the same as in TJ's depiction,he was polite,but really quiet and didn't elaborate on anything,later when I told a couple girls who he was,they attempted to talk to him and he was the same way with them,he just wanted to people watch and stuck with the few people he was with.When you meet these kind of people it all depends on the situation,if you know someone in their inner circle,then its different,your in the inn crowd.Another friend I also used to work with at CC,Big Ed Locke met Bill Russell and Jim Brown,his father was/is a famous jazz musician and on his first trip to LA in 78 before I ever met him,he and a buddy were invited to meet Russ and Jim Brown at a golf country club for lunch through a freind of his dads.He told me how they were sitting there in awe of these guys,could barely speak,and Russ was making jokes that Ed was too BIG to play basketball and had his famous laugh going.

[cowens/oldschool]

BSH,

My favorite all-time Celtic player is Bill Russell/Bob Cousy/Sam Jones/John Havlicek/Frank Ramsey/Jim Loscutoff/Tom Heinsohn/K.C. Jones/Tom Sanders/Clyde Lovellette/Dan Swartz/Gene Guarilia. I stick with my policy of caring about teams rather than individuals, and that was the 1962-63 team (which I feel was the greatest of all-time).

My favorite Celtics memory is (no surprise): THINK BALLOONS, BABY!

The agonizingly slow destruction of Boston Garden (4 blocks from where I lived) was a pretty sad moment, especially when I watched my season's ticket seats bite the dust. But my saddest Celtics moment was probably Red's passing, and I'm undoubtedly due to go through a succession of similar jolts over the next few years. But, in my mind, every bout of sadness will represent dues I'll willingly pay retrospectively for deriving more pleasure from the Celtics by the age of 32 than I could ever deserve in four lifetimes. It was, indeed, Basketball Camelot. Honorable mention for sadness would go to the retirement ceremonies for The Cooz and Sam Jones. I was on the committee for the latter and, at the ceremony, presented Sam with a replica of the new house he'd be building in Wheaton, MD, partly with money donated by the committee. Unfortunately his youngest son came up under the model and slammed his head into it, so I wound up with a crying child in one arm and balancing the scale model on the other.

Celtics met include Red Auerbach, Bob Cousy, Bill Russell, Sam Jones, John Havlicek, Tom Heinsohn, Tom Sanders, Bailey Howell, Don Nelson, Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, Gene Conley, Jack Nichols, Jim Loscutoff, Wayne Embry, Mal Graham, Rich Johnson, and Jim Ard. I also knew a whole slew of wives (and Tom Sanders' mother), because I sat right next to the wives one year when I couldn't get my regular seats.

I have a fair amount of memorabilia, including historic scorecards, a silver autographed #24 money clip presented to me by Sam Jones, wonderful photos, and some great home videos. But, frankly, the memorabilia that's most important to me is meticulously and (I hope) permanently stored between my ears.

Sam

Sam that 62-63 team was one of the most unique and may have been their deepest team,it was especially unique because there was a passing the torch from one HoFer,Cousy to a future HoFer in Hondo.

[Sam]

Cow, there's no question that it was the deepest team ever:

• 8 future hall-of-famers plus Sanders and Loscutoff.

• Even a hall-of-fame backup for Russell (Lovellette).

• TWO of the best 6th men ever in Ramsey and Havlicek.

• Seven guys who wound up coaching basketball at the NBA (6) or college (1) levels.

• Four players who had won the NCAA championship.

• Collectively excelled in every aspect of the game.

• Amazing chemistry because much of the core had played together for quite a while—as many as seven seasons—and yet the average age of the 10 rotation players was a prime time 29.

• Seven guys in double-figure PPG, and three more with either 6 or 7 a game

• Five guys averaging at least 5 boards a game, including Russell at 23.6

• First 8 rotation guys missed a collective 18 games in the 80-game season

• And, of course, Red at the helm.

• Won the championship on the road in L.A.

Sam

[beat]

Just recall my first trip to the Old garden in the early spring of 73. Went with 2 college buddies with no tickets and really no clue. Got floor seats 5 rows behind the basket for I think 5 bucks. This was an ABC game of the week there on a Sunday afternoon vs Kansas City. Russ was working for ABC and I saw him stroll into the Garden Lobby prior to the game. I had to meet him so just ran over and said some thing like I know you don't give autographs but I just want to thank you for being a Celtic and shake your hand." He looked at me and we shook hands...........end of that story. We then wandered around the various stairwells of the garden. In a rather dumpy part with a couple broken windows we heard someone coming. It turned out to be Hondo apparently going some back way to the locker room. We all were sort of in shock and just said hi and good luck.

I really dont even remember who won the game. But Nate Arcibald was pretty impressive and Hondo hit a runner from 1/2 court to end the third period.

beat

[cowens/oldschool]

Sam
I heard of Clyde Lovelette,was he was a big white boy,kind of slow,but a plowhorse kinda like Perk?Did he back up Russell and did they play them together?
cow

[worcester]

Cow - This is quite a mouthful about Clyde. Some backup center. W

http://hoopedia.nba.com/index.php?title=Clyde_Lovellette

[Sam]

Cow,

Clyde was actually the backup center for George Mikan with the Minneapolis Lakers. Mikan's last great year was 1953-54. He missed the entire '54-'55 season and played only 37 games the following year, which was his last. (I can't recall, but I assume he was hurt.

In that '54-'55 season, Clyde zoomed from backup to pretty much picking up where Mikan had left off. He was an all-star in four of the next six seasons. He didn't win any championships with the Lakers or Cincinnati or St. Louis where he also played. Two of his three rings came with the Celtics in '63 and '64, when he averaged 9-10 minutes per game; and the other was his first ring (Lakers '54)..

He actually had some Sheed-like characteristics, in that he could play down low and could hit from very far out. The 3-point line would have been child's play for Clyde. He was no speed demon, but he was a pretty tough guy and was easily a double-double guy in his best years.

During the regular season, about half of his minutes with the Celtics were spent in tandem with Russell on the floor, especially when Heinsohn was in foul trouble. (Russell was averaging 44 minutes a game in those years.) In the playoffs, almost all of Clyde's 7-or-so minutes per game were spent playing along with Russ, as Russ averaged about 47 minutes per game.

They were Mr. Inside and Mr. Outside, with both of them hitting the defensive boards. I guess you could call them early twin towers (as much as two 6'9" guys could be twin towers).

Wide Clyde (as Johnny Most dubbed him) was a very good player and reportedly one of those tough but nice guys. And he was an excellent fit for the Celtics because he provided some insurance if Russ had been seriously hurt, and he also provided an extra dimension when they played together. And his veteran presence fit the team like a glove.

And do you know any other NBA player who became a sheriff after his playing days? lol.

Sam

[worcester]

The citation I offered states that Clyde was the first player ever to win an NCCA championship ring, Olympic Gold medal, and play on an NBA championship team. Was that a true statement?

I thought not, since Bill Russell did all three, and I thought Russ won his NBA championship before Clyde won with the Celts in 1963, but stupid me, Clyde first won with the Lakers in 1954.. Can you think of other NBA players who won all three? Hint - three of them were teammates of John Havlicek.

Meanwhile, Clyde played at Kansas and was followed shortly thereafter by Wilt the Stilt. What a tradition at the center position at Kansas!

[babyskyhook]

BSH - My favorite Laker and one of my very favorite basketball players and people ever is Jerry West. He was such a worthy opponent for the Celtics, an incredible performer and deserved to become the avatar for the NBA - which he is. BTW, I assume you've watched "The Endless Summer." That film prompted me to try surfing in Miami, Virginia Beach and Biarritz, France. What a great life then - sun, surf, and sex in the pre-STD Sixties. W

W-

West is class personified in my eyes. I've always had a huge amount of respect for him, although my emotional connection is more of a secondhand thing, as I never saw him play, whereas all of the main Showtime guys are my favorites as I saw them play as a teenager/ college student.

I loved West's willingness to take risks as a GM- high risk/ high reward guy. Something I think he had in common with Red.


The Endless Summer is the greatest surf film ever made and it's not even close. I love that movie and have loved it for 30 years. It's an incredible time capsule. I started surfing (and having sex) in VA Beach, as that's where I spent the summers of my teenage years. Lot of great memories for me there.

I will be surfing Biarritz this fall for the first time. I've been wanting to do that for years, but have never hooked it up. I've been to France 10 or 12 times, but always to either the Cote d'azur for Cannes or to Paris, and always in May, which isn't a good time to surf, so I'm really looking forward to it.

Ahh, thinking about your travels back in the good old pre-STD days, when the worst thing that could happen was that you'd need a penicillin shot. It must have been like shooting fish in a barrel back then. I've been following in your footsteps (figuratively) since the late '70's, so I look forward to meeting you at one of the board parties (or out in the world somewhere) and comparing notes. I'm pretty sure we'll have some good laughs and stories to share.

Cheers,

bsh

[babyskyhook]

PS-

I still can't get over King Solomon having 700 wives and 300 concubines. Wow.

Although I would think one wife and 999 concubines would be a lot easier to deal with.

[babyskyhook]

BSH,

It's interesting you listed all your favorite Lakers. I have a friend who knows somebody who can get old school NBA uniforms. He has Alex English's jersey with the old Denver rainbow-mountains design, Mike Schmidt's jersey and others and we're not talking cheap threading either. These are the real McCoys. He's a big Laker fan and is keeping his favorite Laker jerseys for himself: West, Coop, Baylor and some others, but sells the rest for extra money. He asked me who is my favorite Celtic (so he could get me the jersey). I froze like a deer in headlights. So many to choose from: Russell, Bird, McHale, Cousy, Havlicek, Cowens. Then I saw a jersey lying on top of the pile and said "I WANT THAT ONE!!". It was a Julius Erving NY Nets of the ABA road jersey. #32.

Then the SOB said "I'm keeping that one too". He's 33 years old, 6'3", 270#. Played center for the Montreal Alouettes of the CFL for a couple years (he was 330# then). Otherwise I would have punched him. So, I told him to get on the stick and find me another. I don't care it would have looked like a tent on me, it was beautiful. I don't own a sports jersey and never have, but I'd wear this one with a big shit-eating grin on my face.


bob

.

That's cool- the only thing better than Dr J's Nets jersey would have been one from the Virginia Squires. either way, I would have been into that as well.

So does he get actual jerseys ? And does he get laker jerseys on a regular basis ? Or does he keep all his Laker jerseys ?

[babyskyhook]

Sam + Rosie-

your stories from the '60's and '70's are great.

Sam- that balloon game must have been something. The '88 Lakers beating the Pistons remind me of a similar dynamic in a series, although less extreme (Cs were even older, finished 4th, won gm 7 on the road).

I remember how I felt when LA beat the Pistons (whom I despised (and still do)), so I can only imagine what it must have been like for you to travel out to LA with those guys on their last go-round and have them beat the Lakers with basically sheer willpower, grit and veteran, mental toughness. Just a remarkable achievement, made all the sweeter for you guys by Jack Kent Cooke's buffoonery with the balloons. I guess he never heard of don't count your chickens. NO surprise LA lost when he did that. He was setting them up for karmic failure.


And Rosie- to be there for the 3OT game must have been amazing. Just hearing about it is cool. I vaguely remember seeing that game (or at least some of it) as a kid. To have been there to witness NBA history, well- I guess that's why we go to the games- you never know when history is going to be made. You guys have pretty much seen it all. Very cool.

[babyskyhook]

Just recall my first trip to the Old garden in the early spring of 73. Went with 2 college buddies with no tickets and really no clue. Got floor seats 5 rows behind the basket for I think 5 bucks.

beat

beat- those were the days. $5 for seats on the floor!!! Wish it was still that cheap. $5 is what the peanuts cost now.

[willjr]

worcester, since the advent of the olympic "dream teams" Magic has joined the club. Pre dream team the accomplishment was obviously greater. I know that Russ and K.C. did it, Jerry Lucas did it, Quinn Buckner did it and Michael Jordan did it. Also, once Carmelo leaves the Nuggets and signs with us he will join the club!

[worcester]

Will Jr - You win the prize fo naming the other six trifecta champions. The trick part of the question was that Jerry Lucas played with Hondo (at Ohio State).

BSH - VA beach ws a really special place back in the Sixties and I assume still is. Wall to wall college students and East coast surf, one helluva combo.
You'll love Biarritaz. There's a lighthouse at the North end of the beach which then stretches it seems all the way to the Pyrenees. I rented a board there for 20 francs ($5) in 1967. Whenever you're in Florida give me a call, or I'll call you during one of my infrequent trips to LA. My next big adventure will be the last few days of August, first week of September when I'm headed to Iguazu Falls in Argentina. I'll post a photo when I get back.

[dboss]

Board name: dboss
Real Name: David Talley
General location of main residence: Lilburn, GA
Raised in: Boston: Dorchester, Roxbury
Age: AARP+
Education: graduated from Boston English High School 1968. Degree in Economics University of Mass/Boston
Occupation: Acct Executive (I sell stuff)
Family: wife and 8 children and 5 grandchildren (been married twice)
Year of becoming an NBA fan: 1960 watching the Celtics.
Teams supported (any sport): Bruins, Celtics, Patriots, Red Sox
Interests: Music, Poetry, cooking. Spending quality time with friends and family.

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