Delonte to sign with the Celtics

Bob,

Actually, I think Delonte is a better slasher than Tony, for the following reasons

1. Delonte has a more varied offensive game, which creates more space for himself and others. Opponents tended to play off Tony, which meant he was often driving into traffic.

2. I don't expect Delonte to slash as much as Tony, but I'd wager a much greater percentage of Delonte's slashing attempts will be successful. So many of Tony's forays were out of control—from the dribble to the attempted finish.

3. A Delonte drive has the potential to turn into a successful stop and pop or setup of a teammate, which was seldom true with Tony.

Tony probably got more offensive rebounds than Delonte will, but I don't think it will be a major difference because one never knew what Tony was going to do with the ball when he grabbed it. The major loss is obviously Tony's defense, but sometimes that was better than others, often depending on his foul situation. Seems to me that, whatever pros and cons accompany Delonte on the floor, at least he's consistent and therefore a known quantity at all times.

I do join the many who question the backup SF situation.

Sam

Well,
we have one more question mark which will be answered during the upcoming season.
Is it October 26 yet?
OT: Jeb, what's up with the crook & the king avatar?

AK

Sam wrote:Bob,

Actually, I think Delonte is a better slasher than Tony, for the following reasons

1. Delonte has a more varied offensive game, which creates more space for himself and others. Opponents tended to play off Tony, which meant he was often driving into traffic.

2. I don't expect Delonte to slash as much as Tony, but I'd wager a much greater percentage of Delonte's slashing attempts will be successful. So many of Tony's forays were out of control—from the dribble to the attempted finish.

3. A Delonte drive has the potential to turn into a successful stop and pop or setup of a teammate, which was seldom true with Tony.

Tony probably got more offensive rebounds than Delonte will, but I don't think it will be a major difference because one never knew what Tony was going to do with the ball when he grabbed it. The major loss is obviously Tony's defense, but sometimes that was better than others, often depending on his foul situation. Seems to me that, whatever pros and cons accompany Delonte on the floor, at least he's consistent and therefore a known quantity at all times.

I do join the many who question the backup SF situation.

Sam

sam,

Sometimes it's hard to say who the better slasher is when one of the players does it so much more than the other.

According to www.nba.com/hotspots, Delonte had a very respectable closing percentage in close ESPECIALLY on the right side. I fiind this interesting considering Delonte is left handed, which probably means he finished with his right (so as to keep his body between the ball and the defender). Perhaps it's my faulty memory, but I don't remember Tony going to the left side, his weaker side, of the basket much.

Tony Allen's closing percentages in close is much worse.

You are very right about Delonte's ability and willingness to stop and take a mid-range shot rather than taking it all the way to the iron. Clearly, he is much more comfortable with his jumpshot than Tony is (and should be). In fact, I remember him having some good games against us in the playoffs where he did exactly that.

It could get very ugly out there when we play the HEAT if someone yells out "Yo Momma!".

bob

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Just waiting for camp to start right now. I really have missed having b-ball
around. Have watch the Red Sox and now the Pats, but it just can't keep up with Basketball. Even the news has been boring!

Delonte will bring a little color to the team! Between him and Shaq we will
be quite entertained. Just glad that there is a little bit out there for die hard
fans like Myself.

Bob,

I just reviewed the Celtics roster, of which nine either are new to the team or have been newly signed. And six of those nine bode very well for a fast-breaking bench: Bradley, Daniels, Nate, Wafer, Delonte, and Shaq. (I might even have thrown in Harangody who gets down the floor and fill s lane very well).

I realize some people will ask why I'd put Shaq on a list of fast break possibilities. Simple. He'll get the rebounds and make the outlet passes that are essential to a good fast break. As I always say, it's not about the man; it's about how the man fits into the team.

Between Daniels,Wafer, Delonte and Nate, the quard/wing bench rotation has the potential to be extremely uptempo. In fact, I can see Rondo dying for a chance to play with them (and maybe getting some chances too).

Here's another fine subplot Danny's gotten us into.

Sam

Sending some dry air to you pholks and especially to Sam to dry off behind his ears. LOL
Congrats on the hole in one. that's awesome

sinus

He just decided to go see Nixon one day. He entered into the oval office packing an army issue 45. They talked about Elvis becoming an undercover agent for the dea. I shite you not...it is an incredibly weird story! Elvis was by this time on a diet of capsule dilauded and fried banana sammies. Definite fly on the wall situation.

Sam wrote:Bob,

I just reviewed the Celtics roster, of which nine either are new to the team or have been newly signed. And six of those nine bode very well for a fast-breaking bench: Bradley, Daniels, Nate, Wafer, Delonte, and Shaq. (I might even have thrown in Harangody who gets down the floor and fill s lane very well).

I realize some people will ask why I'd put Shaq on a list of fast break possibilities. Simple. He'll get the rebounds and make the outlet passes that are essential to a good fast break. As I always say, it's not about the man; it's about how the man fits into the team.

Between Daniels,Wafer, Delonte and Nate, the quard/wing bench rotation has the potential to be extremely uptempo. In fact, I can see Rondo dying for a chance to play with them (and maybe getting some chances too).

Here's another fine subplot Danny's gotten us into.

Sam

sam,

A dependable rebounder and outlet passer is almost a requirement for an effective fast break. Russell, Unseld and Walton significantly upgraded their team's fastbreaks without running the break themselves (ok, Russ did, but not with the regularity of a wing). It even helps to offset a slower team's handicap since your slow guys can get a headstart upcourt and not have to hang back to help out under the basket. The flip side of that is slower teams have that extra beat or two to get back on defense if the offense doesn't have an effective rebounder grabbing the ball and getting to close to mid-court with 22 seconds left on the clock.

One advantage to Shaq being so tall, as well as so wide, is that he will be able to see over any opposing player trying to prevent the outlet pass.

oooooooo, an out-passing fast-break unit, and at times including Rondo in the mix -- be still my heart !!

and thx for the stats, bob - i love that real data stuff.

but the BU 3 does remain a hole ... go Danny go !

Michael

One houskeeping note here regarding the West signing. He is suspended for the first 10 games of the season due to his issues surrounding the firearm possessions.

bob

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Bob,

Good point about Shaq's height. You know, the machinations that have occurred during this offseason could well be an entree to a book-worthy season. Imagine if they actually won the championship. A retrospective look at how each subplot fed into the process would be fascinating.

Sam

Sam wrote:Bob,

I just reviewed the Celtics roster, of which nine either are new to the team or have been newly signed. And six of those nine bode very well for a fast-breaking bench: Bradley, Daniels, Nate, Wafer, Delonte, and Shaq. (I might even have thrown in Harangody who gets down the floor and fill s lane very well).

I realize some people will ask why I'd put Shaq on a list of fast break possibilities. Simple. He'll get the rebounds and make the outlet passes that are essential to a good fast break. As I always say, it's not about the man; it's about how the man fits into the team.

Between Daniels,Wafer, Delonte and Nate, the quard/wing bench rotation has the potential to be extremely uptempo. In fact, I can see Rondo dying for a chance to play with them (and maybe getting some chances too).

Here's another fine subplot Danny's gotten us into.

Sam

The roster, as it currently stands and will probably look going into camp, is:

5 - JO, Shaq, Erden (Perk on IR) - lotta beef on the hoof there.
4 - KG, Davis, Harangody - Davis and Luke are short for their position, but they move and shoot well
3 - PP, Q - Need more depth here, I think, but we have a good defender at the backup
2 - Ray, West, Von Wafer (Jawohl, Mein Herr) - All 6'4"+, all can shoot, 2 of them defend and 2 can ballhandle.
1 - Rondo, Nate, Bradley - Demon speed with all 3. Rondo and Bradley superb defenders, Nate with range.

Obviously, we're a little thin at 3. I also think, defensively, we're vulnerable at 4 once we go to the bench. The upside is that I think JO would be extremely effective playing 4, maybe at this point in his career, even more effective than at 5. A frontcourt bench of Shaq and JO? Very intriguing. Has Davis progressed to the point with his conditioning (he's now an avid MMA trainee) where he might be able to play some 3? If so, that's covers our butts a bit there. We're very good at 2 and very good at 1. A lot of speed at those two positions. If Davis and/or Harangody run, our speed at 1 and 2 and potential running mates at 3 and 4 could make for a very appealing running team.

We need to become rebounding fiends, though. We did NOT do a good job of that last season and, with the loss of 6'11" Rasheed, now need to focus even more on positioning and going after the ball aggressively. No rebounding, no fast breaks. No fast breaks and our vulnerability at 4 could bite us in the keister.

bob

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Bob,

Good analysis. I've been pushing for some Davis time at the "3" for a while now, but the idea never gathers much steam. Perversity being my middle name, though, I still hold out some hope that both Davis and Harangody will see time at the position against certain opponents.

I remember saying something last season about the incredible versatility the Celtics had and how it would be such an advantage for them. I recall saying that the multiple positions played by so many Celtics was the equivalent of having a roster of something like 23. The versatility didn't turn out to be the advantage I had hoped because of injuries, although it may have helped somewhat in compensating for the injuries.

I have a similar feeling this season. At the very least, I don't see this team being outmaneuvered in terms of most matchups (with L. James possibly being the main exception as things now stand). And I hope, once again, that they'll be able to gain a number of matchup advantages without having to rely on inexperienced players to achieve them.

More fodder for my subplot book.

Sam

I also was one of the first to want Baby at the 3 last year.I specifically said I wanted him to knock down Artest a few times,I would love to see a BIG lineup with Baby,KG/JO,Shaq/JO,Pierce and Rondo at times destroying teams on the boards.I could also see Luke in there at 3 spreading the floor.If we can get Luke and Baby some minutes at 3 against big 3's we would easily have the deepest roster in the league.If everyone can stay healthy we can wear out teams with waves of lineups.....I also like Sams speed lineup of greyhounds to further push the tempo.

Cow,

Variety is the spice of life. It would be ideal to be able to present as many different looks as possible on both offense and defense.

Is this a great game or what? We lose the championship by a hair, and I can feel people getting revved up for the coming season. I know I'm stoked!

Sam

Delonte signing seems to have stirred up people almost as much as Shaq. I only hope he can get back to the way he was playing when he was traded.
He played the game the way the Celtics of today play, leaving everything on the floor every night. There were times I thought he was going to kill himself the way he went flying into the crowd just to get a ball. I think Danny likes this kid so much because he reminds him of himself and the way he played.

This could prove to be an exciting year, with so many different players joining the team. If they all play up to their abilities, we could be giving the Heat a real run for their money. I still feel the Celtics are the team to beat until proven otherwise. 27 days until camp!

Rosalie, the ultimate Celtic fan, counting down the days until she gets to watch rookies doing two-a-days.

bob

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Rosalie,

Throughout the past season, I felt that chemistry (or lack of it) was going to make or break this team. I'll always believe that's the way things worked out.

But, when one thinks about it, that was nothing compared to the way this season is shaping up. There are so many individual pieces that need to be worked into a flow that will put both them and the team into positions to succeed.

Not just new players either. There will almost surely be a continuation of the evolution from Pierce's imprint to Rondo's imprint. The older guys will probably have to adjust their minutes, their trust in others, and possibly even their roles.

Remember the glimmer thread from last season? I think we got darned close to 100. This year, I'm tempted to start a "subplot" thread. Oh to be a fly on the wall at practices early in the season!

Sam

I feel the one who will have to do the most adjusting in the next couple of years is Pierce. Let's face it, Ray gave up alot when he came here and took a back step to Garnett and Pierce, so he has already gotten used to being second fiddle. Pierce still feels this is his team, he is the Captain, and, while alot of this is still true, Rondo is almost ready to take the reigns over. This is his team to make or break, I feel. It will be interesting to watch how Pierce responds to alot of this. Garnett has yet to have anyone crawling up his heals ready to take his place. He will play his game, and still be a force to be dealt with in the locker room and the bench. These guys have proven they can play together, so it is now their turn to teach the others how to do the same. This is the only way this team survives and moves along deep into the playoffs (of course health will be a huge factor also).

Sam, You must remember when the Celtics held their pre-season training down at the Mass Maritime Academy. For $.50 cents you could watch some of the stars practice and play pick up games. We used to drive down a couple of times a week. They weren't always open, but, it was sure fun.
Imagine that now??? I can even remember the rookie camp at Brandeis
University, where you could pay $5.00 and see them play at night against one another. It was the last place I saw Reggie Lewis alive with his little boy, one night before he died. What a memory!

Oh well, I will keep that glimmer going from last year, four lousy points and I
would still be bragging to friends and family how my "GUYS" did it!! One more for this team would be awesome!

ROSALIE, dO YOU REMEMBER WAY, WAY BACK WHEN THE cELTS USED TO practice AT THE Holy Cross Theological Seminary? Small gym, but you could get in for free, after buying a candle at the Greek Orthodox church.

I´m in Argentina this week, home to Luis Scola, Andres Nocioni, et alia. and they do have FIBA fever - Argentina plays Brazil tonight.

About Delonte, yes he did have some discord with Rondo. Once Rondo gave him the ball, Delont would never pass it back to him, clearly because he feared losing his pg post to RR. Well that day´s over as is that issue. Delonte will bring good d and o to the Celts. Sure he doesn´t fill the backup hole at the 3, but as Sam says, I hope to see Big Baby and Luke fill in there for Paul at times.

Congratulations Beat for the Hole in One and to Marcus for getting Orel´s autograph. He is a class act. Worcester

Come on now----I'M NOT THAT OLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

some of what Doc had to say about West's signing -

“I think we’re getting Delonte at a good time in his life,’’ said Celtics coach Doc Rivers. “He knows who he is now.

“Delonte can play basketball. We know that. He brings a great toughness. That’s one of the reasons I have always loved him, because of his toughness.

“The whole chemistry thing, one of the reasons we got him, we think we can make it work. But it’s a concern. It always is. It’s a delicate balance, chemistry.’’

chemistry chemistry chemistry -- crucial, and Doc says that's actually one of the reasons they got West !! Doc seems to feel Delonte can add to the chemistry and fit in a role as it develops for him. it's an issue i was frankly a little concerned about - and although Doc's a little concerned about it too, overall this sounds like a positive assessment. good to have Doc's take on it.

Michael

bigpygme wrote:some of what Doc had to say about West's signing -

“I think we’re getting Delonte at a good time in his life,’’ said Celtics coach Doc Rivers. “He knows who he is now.

“Delonte can play basketball. We know that. He brings a great toughness. That’s one of the reasons I have always loved him, because of his toughness.

“The whole chemistry thing, one of the reasons we got him, we think we can make it work. But it’s a concern. It always is. It’s a delicate balance, chemistry.’’

chemistry chemistry chemistry -- crucial, and Doc says that's actually one of the reasons they got West !! Doc seems to feel Delonte can add to the chemistry and fit in a role as it develops for him. it's an issue i was frankly a little concerned about - and although Doc's a little concerned about it too, overall this sounds like a positive assessment. good to have Doc's take on it.

Michael

Michael,

Delonte never played with Ray or KG, he was part of the trade that brought Ray here. He never played with the Celtics under the Tom Thib defensive umbrella (Thib was signed 8/07, the draft day trade with Ray and Delonte was 6/07). He is familiar with Doc's offensive playbook though. He does know, and presumably has the respect of, Paul Pierce. He also knows and has played with Rondo and Perk. I think those are the only three players left from his tenure here. Are those three players (one of whom is injured, the other two are starters and Delonte will be coming off the bench so there might be very limited playing time together) enough to predict "chemistry"?

Well, maybe the chemistry between those players and West will help keep his head together and then he can go out and lead the second unit like he lead the first unit pre-Three Amigos. That would be great. We weren't a good team that year (24-58, we had Theo Ratliff, Jefferson, Gomes, Olawakandi, Wally and Telfair), true, but this team isn't that team. It certainly can't hurt us to have the starting guard from the team that had the best record in the NBA just last year coming off our bench and that's where we are now. We lose some on defense at that position but we won't be cringing when we see Tony Allen dribbling over halfcourt anymore. I am very comfortable with the ball in West's hands. His assist-to-turnover ratio is a very healthy 2.4:1. By comparison, Mo Williams is 2.1:1, Russell Westbrook is 1.97:1, Derrick Rose is 2.31:1 and Tony's was a barely tolerable 1.1:1. The first 3 are starting NBA point guards.

bob

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thanks, bob -

good points all. no, to me West's history here isn't enough to predict good chemistry. i was just glad to see that from Doc's standpoint, the prospects of Delonte working in with the team's chemistry apparently seem to look good to him. but he did say "it's a concern - it always is." so on that topic, i am somewhat reassured, but certainly it is no lock. frankly, he's always before seemed like kind of a lost and loose wing-nut.

but he does play tough, hard-nosed ball. thx for the turnover ratio's, they are useful - real data are always useful. so i agree that he is a fine upgrade over the T.A. "cringe" factor in ball management. and he can shoot, and as you've already pointed out, can shoot clutch, whereas T.A. certainly has a more limited offensive skill set.

so we'll see when we see, but the forecast looks promising, no? i just hope his head stays together, that he has indeed 'found himself'.

Michael

Speaking as one of the world's foremost fans of chemistry, I'm excited by what Delonte will bring. (What a shock; and I'm usually so pessimistic!).

I happen to think what happens with D. West is more up to the rest of the team than up to him. This team, as personified by the three father figures, has a history of taking challenges in its stride and not over-reacting. Glen Davis comes to mind. And I bet there's a lot more that we don't know abut, particularly relating to Rondo. Maybe Nate too. And, for that matter, Tony as well. Just bring them in, stick them in the Celtics milieu; and, if they fail, it's much more likely due to performance issues than to personal issues.

A key attribute in the development of chemistry is a comfort zone. Delonte has the skills to be a very effective bench player—and even a starting fill-in if necessary. He knows the territory. He has the ability to play in multiple systems and roles,which gives a player a comfort zone whenever chemistry is even a partial issue. He'll be welcomed back by the fans (and anyone who disses his past should be shot with no trial). He'll come in with sky-high motivation.

So while his success with the Celtics is not a lock, I believe there's every likelihood that chemistry will be a non-issue with him.

Sam