Celtics Vs Knicks @ MSG 10/20/2021 - pregame thoughts

As we all know, The Boston Celtics open the 2021-22 season on Wednesday, October 20th @ NY.

The NYK made 2 significant signings by adding Kemba Walker and Evan Fournier.

With center Mitchell Robinson still recovering from a fractured foot look for the Knicks to start:

Randall, Gibson, RJ Barrett, Walker and Fournier.

The Knicks have a deep bench with Rose backing up Walker. Other key guys will be Alex Burks, last year's rookie Obi Toppin and Emmanuel Quickly. Nerlens Noel is the BU center.

Last year they won with defense and a career year from Julius Randle. This year the focus has been on having a more balanced offense. They also had a good draft.

The Knicks are a well coached team.

They went 4-0 in preseason (Pacers, Wizards twice and the Pistons)

Their projected starting lineup lacks a true rim protector. The addition of former Celtics Walker and Fournier should give their offense a big boost but and that is a big butt., will they lose too much on the defensive side of the ball if both of those guys are in the lineup together?

The Knicks snuck up on teams last year until they got creamed by the upstart Hawks 4 games to 1. 2 of those losses were at MSG including the game 5 closeout.

I like this first game matchup on the road. The Knicks are a physical team that gets after it. Now that we have added more defensive minded veteran depth we should be a tough out for them.

The key matchup will be Randle vs ???? Randle is a bully. Last year he added a consistent 3 point shot to his arsenal but he can also handle the ball and get to the rim. He's a beast on the glass.

Al Horford will not be available. My choice to start...drum roll please...Grant Williams.

Defense in today's NBA starts at the perimeter.  Poor perimeter defenders allow penetrators who leave baseline defenders with Hobson's Choice.  You have to move your feet at the arc now, period.  Kemba's good at taking charges but not on his man, he does it by sliding in front of someone else's man.  That's not so good if his man is a shooter.  Imagine Kemba falling off of Pritchard to clog the paint on Jaylen, who drove past Fournier with ease.  While it's certainly better to have Mitchell Robinson than to not have him he can only do so much when he has to decide whether to pick up the driver or stay with Robert Williams on the baseline.  It's a bad decision no matter which one he picks, but it's not his fault, it's his perimeter defender's fault.  Our perimeter defenders are NBA First Team Marcus Smart, 6'7" 7'0" wingspan Jaylen Brown, eager defender Josh Richardson, Dennis Schroder (his Defensive Rating last year in LA was 109.  Kemba's DefRtg last year with us was 114), Payton Pritchard and Aaron Nesmith.  PP and AN's defense were mediocre last year, but they were rookies in a crappy year for developing rookies.  The Knick back court players I'm worried about aren't Kemba and Fournier, it's Rose and Quickley.  Jaylen will be working hard on RJ Barrett, Rose and Quickley are tough.  I'm almost hoping Thibs, who is well-known to love his veterans and likes to play them until they drop, plays Kemba a lot of minutes.

Thibs will have his guys punching above their weight on defense, it's his DNA, but his back court is a pair of bantamweights.  I'd like to see Smart post Kemba up.  I'd like to see Smart post Fournier up too.  In fact, I'd like to see Smart post up just about everybody (except maybe Julius Randle).

Will we see a lot of Grant Williams on Randle? Shoulda kept those 15#, Grant.


Bob


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Bob


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Making a correction

Mitchell Robinson is likely to play.

He did in  one of the Wizard games.

He musta got on the good foot.

cowens/oldschool wrote:I was talking with a few friends that are die hard Knick fans, they were saying how good the Knicks defense was and is gonna be this year. I explained oh yeah wait till you see Frenchy and Kemba on the floor, against any good playoff level team you can’t play them together, or they will get exploited over and over….Thibs might be a great coach, but no one can suddenly morph into a top defender at 30, you’ll have an elite defense only when those guys are not on the floor!!

Cow

You hit the nail on the head. I would expect an increased effort from both of those guys but you cannot teach an old dog new tricks. Basically when they are on the floor together 2/5 of your lineup cannot defend their own position.

prakash wrote:It will be interesting to see how the ball dominance will be shared between Randle and Kemba.  The Knicks likely have a roster with fewer changes and that is their advantage.

On the Celts side, besides missing Horford and Brown, I see Tatum as still trying to figure out how to balance power and finesse in his game.  He has gotten stronger but has not figured out bully ball.  With emphasis on ball movement, his finesses game and shot making are not all back.

I am looking forward to the game to see which of Romeo, Nesmith and Josh Richardson play well.

Kash

There should not be a problem between Kemba and Randle. Looking at the usage rate, Kemba played with two guys that had usage rates of 29.8 and 29.0. Randle had a usage rate of 28.5.

I do not think Tatum will ever be in the bully ball category. That is not who he is. I think his added strength should help him finish better through contact. Tatum is definitely going through an adjustment period. His tendency to play ISO ball conflicts with IME's desire to keep the ball moving. He will be fine because he is a gifted young talent that is still learning the game.

I am pretty sure that Horford will not be available but JB might. If he has negative tests.

We should have a more definitive answer by tomorrow. Nesmith and Langford plus Pritchard will be key players for us this season. I expect the veteran Josh to also be ready.

dbrown4 wrote:As usual it seems, the Celtics draw the road game against a formidable team on NBA Showcase Day(s).  No respect!  It's like the schedulers know we would crush them at home so to make it close they put us on the road so the odds are better we lose.  But again, if we do manage to pull this one out, it will be because Ime went with his gut and had the right players in at the right time and maximized their output.  

This should be a very good, entertaining game.  Add the Kemba and Fournier revenge factor, plus the literally raised from the dead in one season NY basketball crowd and you have the makings of a great EC game.  

db

db

If the Celtics want to reestablish the peaking order in the East, the Knicks are one of several teams that need to be vanquished.

Hard to believe the new season is here. I am looking forward to this new season. We saw some glimpses of what to expect and now we want to see the team execute at both ends of the floor.

bobheckler wrote:Defense in today's NBA starts at the perimeter.  Poor perimeter defenders allow penetrators who leave baseline defenders with Hobson's Choice.  You have to move your feet at the arc now, period.  Kemba's good at taking charges but not on his man, he does it by sliding in front of someone else's man.  That's not so good if his man is a shooter.  Imagine Kemba falling off of Pritchard to clog the paint on Jaylen, who drove past Fournier with ease.  While it's certainly better to have Mitchell Robinson than to not have him he can only do so much when he has to decide whether to pick up the driver or stay with Robert Williams on the baseline.  It's a bad decision no matter which one he picks, but it's not his fault, it's his perimeter defender's fault.  Our perimeter defenders are NBA First Team Marcus Smart, 6'7" 7'0" wingspan Jaylen Brown, eager defender Josh Richardson, Dennis Schroder (his Defensive Rating last year in LA was 109.  Kemba's DefRtg last year with us was 114), Payton Pritchard and Aaron Nesmith.  PP and AN's defense were mediocre last year, but they were rookies in a crappy year for developing rookies.  The Knick back court players I'm worried about aren't Kemba and Fournier, it's Rose and Quickley.  Jaylen will be working hard on RJ Barrett, Rose and Quickley are tough.  I'm almost hoping Thibs, who is well-known to love his veterans and likes to play them until they drop, plays Kemba a lot of minutes.

Thibs will have his guys punching above their weight on defense, it's his DNA, but his back court is a pair of bantamweights.  I'd like to see Smart post Kemba up.  I'd like to see Smart post Fournier up too.  In fact, I'd like to see Smart post up just about everybody (except maybe Julius Randle).

Will we see a lot of Grant Williams on Randle?  Shoulda kept those 15#, Grant.


Bob


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Bob


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Bobh

The preseason revealed that the Celtics must get better defending on the perimeter. The problem is that perimeter defense can no longer be effective with feet inside the arc. Ime should be able to coach these guys up on that. We have enough defenders who can get after it. They have to be strong on the ball defenders because when you start pushing up on the opponents to take away open shots, some are crafty enough to take you off the bounce. You have to stay up on your man and also keep him in front of you.

Ime talked about this in a recent interview. He referred to those deep threes as 4 point shots.

Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
Sources: Doc Rivers asked Ben Simmons to join a defensive drill today. Simmons refused. Rivers asked again. Simmons said no again.

Rivers then told Simmons he should go home, and Simmons dropped the ball and left.
MY NOTE: As a result of this Ben Simmons was suspended by the Sixers for conduct detrimental to the team.



John Karalis @RedsArmy_John
about 1 hour ago
Great adjustment by Ben Simmons realizing that instead of sitting home on his own, he can go to be a bigger distraction in person and have the team send him home instead.



Ben Rohrbach @brohrbach
about 1 hour ago
What better way to start any NBA season than watching the Sixers implode before games even start.


Bob


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bobheckler wrote:Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
Sources: Doc Rivers asked Ben Simmons to join a defensive drill today. Simmons refused. Rivers asked again. Simmons said no again.

Rivers then told Simmons he should go home, and Simmons dropped the ball and left.
MY NOTE:  As a result of this Ben Simmons was suspended by the Sixers for conduct detrimental to the team.



John Karalis @RedsArmy_John
about 1 hour ago
Great adjustment by Ben Simmons realizing that instead of sitting home on his own, he can go to be a bigger distraction in person and have the team send him home instead.



Ben Rohrbach @brohrbach
about 1 hour ago
What better way to start any NBA season than watching the Sixers implode before games even start.


Bob


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BobH

Why are you polluting my Celtics/Knicks thread with another Ben Simmons episode

Mark Murphy
Mark Murphy @Murf56
yesterday
Jaylen Brown has been upgraded to questionable for the season opener in New York. He is out of health and safety protocol, and in "recovery." Ime Udoka has left the door open to playing him. ... Al Horford officially listed as out for the game.


Bob


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Grant gets the start tonight.