Post-game Thread: Celtics @ Grizzlies, 11/13/2010

[112288]

Great game by Shaq. Looks like Doc worked him into the game plan tonight, I hope this trend continues. The "Big Fella" can still bring it on.

What's up with Rondo and his foul shooting. He looks like he's gone back to his old style from 2 years ago.

The team really looked sharp at times like a steam roller coming at you especially in OT, but the road trip has been long and it looked like mental fatigue set in at times.

However a win is a win , now lets get the hell outa here and back to the friendly confines of TD Garden!

Washington Wednesday night - 7:30pm.

Go Celtics!!!!!!!


112288

[LACELTFAN]

Actually, I believe it's Washington...
GO CELTICS!!!

[Sam]

Plenty of practice time and home cooking, with Delonte set to join the bench. Not a bad recipe for improvement of a team that is already far ahead of where I thought their cohesion would be at this point.

Sam

[112288]

Washington it is!

All the same, another win.

112288

[gyso]

Box Score:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=Au4LuozT8glteR2kDX9vCVa8vLYF?gid=2010111329

Recap:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap?gid=2010111329

Video Highlights:

http://sports.yahoo.com/video/player/nba/23019326;_ylt=Apt6RSA3N.s2M8zEWHi386m8vLYF

[beat]

Some idle thoughts

PP got into the pound the ball mode in a couple late possessions and the C's got nothing to show for it. (Turnover off foul and a rondo heave) (and just a possession or 2 before we moved the ball so well with 3 to 4 crisp passes for a layup)

RR set up KG for a 2 open looks late in reg, he missed um both unfortunately.

Shaq 4x5 from the line............Comon Rondo if he can go 4x5 so can you!!
Hate to say it but Shaq looks to be more confidant at the line than RR.

We took reasonably good care of the ball too with only 14 TO's and forced 17 +3 here which I'll take anyday.

Funny how when RA gets his looks, the offense goes into another level.
Loved the shot distribution of the starters, KG the most with 15, shaq and RR the least with 10. And for the most part shot selection was good.

Nate appears to be getting a whole lot more confortable. He's a little swarm on D.

Outrebounded again.................seems a stat that has no meaning to any degree on this team. The griz certainly gave us their best shot. And lost.
KG getting his 9 and nearly another 2bl 2bl.

32 Assists on 45 makes. (and we missed how many makeable looks off nice feeds too) Rondo 17 assists.........( getting under 10 is unacceptable now)

Now comes the interesting part. With the entrance of Delonte will it be like putting high octain into an engine thats running pretty well without it? Certainly will be fun to watch how it plays out. at the very least it will keep those ugly upper 30 to 40 mpg stats for PP and RA from appearing quite so often.

Watched a bit of the heat last eve too. They again had an 18 pt lead and began to fold like a tent to Toronto. Lead got down to 4 but Heat recovered with Wade doing most of the damage when needed. (Bosh?..........well let's just say Leonard Nimoy was "in search off" him, milk carton anyone?)

beat

PS SYRACUSE WINS!! BOWL ELIGIBLE!! Glad I got those season tickets!

[Sam]

Beat, how long do you think it will be before the team has an internal pool on who winds up with the better FT percentage—Rondo or Shaq? Guess that might be a little bad for their confidence, but it is actually rather amazing that Rondo can be so inconsistent. Remember the game in which he was something like 12 for 13 from the line?

I've been writing about Delonte's return now, and maybe it will instantly take the bench play to a new level. But we should all be aware of my old friend, discontinuity, which can be caused by someone entering the rotation as well as someone leaving it. In other words, despite the fact that he played with them in the preseason and has practiced with them, it could potentially take some time go get him and the rest of the bench acclimated to one another under game conditions.

One thing that will be interesting to see will be whether Doc immediately goes with a unit of totally bench players or continues to employ three or four bench players with one or two starters. I'm sure we all wish it could be the former so as to minimize minutes for Ray and Paul.

Sam

[dboss]

The big fella dropped 18 in 22 minutes for the Celtics. After that he was sitting on the bench and he looked like he wanted to get back in there.

But Doc is not about to overplay him. Shaq ran the court, rebounded the basketball and was the recipient of some great feeds.

Shaq said that he is the enforcer on the team. When was the last time any Celtics player publically stated that role?

as 112288 pointed out, Rajon's foul shooting has regressed (if that is possible) I think it is an issue of both mechanics and confidence. Rajon is playing great basketball but he needs to take responsibility for his 'foul' shooting.

Speaking of foul shooting has anyone noticed that Paul Pierce has altered his foul shooting from the line. It appears that he is positioning the ball a little more out in front of him. The result has been impressive. He leads the team at 94%. Him and Ray 92%, must have a side bet.

Nate seems to be back in the groove and I cannot wait until Delonte returns on Wednesday.

Marquis and Big baby played well again last night. baby just keeps taking those charges and yes the refs missed another on last night.

At 8-2 through the first 10 games the Celtics have established themselves as the team to beat in the East. But is will be another 10 games before we get to see how well the rotations work. The return of D west, a healthy and a healthy JON could propel this team into another level of excellence.

dboss

[beat]

Sam

With perhaps the best foul shooter on the planet you would think that Rondo would at least take a little advantage of it. 75% at this level should be the norm for almost any player. Rondo has soooooo much talent and has the ball sooooo much ................? No answer other than (PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE, of course practiceing a flawed shot to begin with is a topic for another discussion. When watching Shaq he clearly is aiming at the back of the rim, most of his misses are not right or left they are short or long. Rondo's misses are left right short or long. Of course too there is the "big hands" debate too.

As for Delonte. Doc will no doubt ease him into a role. I would not be surprised given the game situations that for 4-5 games he gets 10 minutes. Then the next 5 15-20 as need dictates. He gives Doc a lot of flex as to how he is used too. I still think Doc will keep either PP or RA with the bench unit for the forseeable future. Of course with BB playing starters minutes without starting sort of makes the term bench minutes anyones guess. Would love to see West be the first off the bench to spell RA or PP early so if Doc wishes to play either with the bench in the second quarter the would be a bit fresher.

Hard to believe 1/8 of the season is over. So we've left the gate and are into the first turn. No whip needed, just a firm hand at the reigns. The horse knows how to run, Doc the jockey just keep the pace acceptable for the next 1/2 mile.

beat

[dboss]

With the scheduled retun of Delonte, who do you think goes on the inactive list and/or heads to the D league?

dboss

[beat]

Well Perk is there for sure. AB is still hurt I guess. So it looks like Luke to DL. Wafer?

beat

[bobheckler]

The Celtics played down to their competition, once again. To their credit, the Griz never gave up and kept pecking away and pecking away and that kept them in the game. Ugly, but an ugly W is better than a beautiful L.

1. Paul Pierce's isos almost cost us the game. When they work they work but when they don't STOP DOING THEM!! God, I hate iso ball.

2. 33 year-old Pierce and 35 year-old Ray Allen played 43 and 40 minutes respectively. Funny, I don't hear them blaming the coach for keeping them in the game because they ran out of gas...(tweet, tweet).

3. Nate did a great job. Rondo was struggling in the first half and Nate came in and provided energy, scoring and defense. Rondo wasn't credited with his first assist until 9:33 left in the 2nd period. Good job, Mighty Mite.

4. Marquis Daniels stat line doesn't show much, but I have really enjoyed his game, both in this game and in the previous one against Miami. He's playing sticky D and takes it to the iron when he can. A great example of a player who "plays within himself". 3 steals and only 2 fouls while defending Rudy Gay, who was blowing past Paul Pierce. If Rudy Gay ever got into a shooting groove, this game would have turned out differently. As it was, he got into short zones (when he was being guarded by Pierce) and got disrupted when guarded by Daniels. Let him go on a tear and he will tear you up. Good job, Q.

5. Zack Randolph was eating KG alive inside. 10-14 from the field and I'll bet not more than 1 or 2 of them from beyond 8'. KG's clear height advantage was not used effectively. KG did make a HUGE steal, falling to the floor while flipping it to Rondo, in the OT which helped seal the deal. KG played hard, he just struggled at times. His two missed fgs in OT (or was it the end of the 4th?) could have iced it. As it turned out, his two made fts, courtesy of Zack Randolph's flagrant, iced it. All in all, though, I am loving his mobility and aggressiveness. He may never be the KG of 2008, but he's thinking he can be and that's night-and-day from last season.

6. Rondo's fts are excrement. Mid-range jumpers are flowing out of his hands now, but put him on the line and he's a liability. He was just 1-5 from the line last night. I'd like to watch some videotape, but it looks to me that he doesn't turn his body enough at the line, so he shoots his fts like he used to shoot his fgs. Maybe Shaq should coach him a bit (OMG, that's just too ridiculous). Shaq is making a point of keeping the ball up on his fingers. His release is herky-jerky, but the ball is being held well. I think Rondo's back to having his body too "facing front" and he's cupping it again instead of up on his fingers.

7. Dan Issel once famously described #5 pick Tony Battie as "El Busto". Smile, Dan, you could have picked Hasheem Thabeet #2, like Memphis did.

8. Shaq dominated his position. They tried Hack-a-Shaq on him and it failed (he went 4-5 from the line). If he keeps playing like this for 20-22 mpg, we're going to be extremely tough up front when JO and Perk are healthy. Extremely.

9. Delonte West is now eligible. Von Wafer played 2 minutes last night, against a mediocre team, and did nothing to justify his remaining with the team. As long as the health of our bigs is a question mark, I think Luke will stay with the team.

Now on to thump the 2-6 Wizards.

bob

.

[112288]

Bob,

You are right KG got eaten-up defensively last night. He got panned in the Globe (Boston.Com) today for his defense.

112288

[sinus007]

Hi,
Good win yesterday. I was afraid that they fold as they did in Cle. But in OT they turn the switch to "Celtics Defense" position and the rest is history.
Re RR's FT. I believe it's purely psychological. If he can overcome it he can average 70%. I don't know what he and the team have to do: force it or go nice and easy, or maybe hire a shrink. I don't worry about his jumpers but FTs have to be improved.
BTW. I was watching the game on the Web via Fox Sports Tenn and had to listen to their local announcers. So, the guys noted interesting thing. Due to RR's poor shooting he is not, in many cases, tightly guarded and that gives him much better opportunity to distribute the ball.
Also, they, announcers, were livid about the foul PP committed to stop a fast break wasn't a flagrant. Thou they admitted that the foul on KG was flagrant. I haven't seen the former - was it really bad?
Thank you very much,
AK

[112288]

PP got him good at shoulder level, almost like a football play where you horse collar a guy.

I also thought the announces on FOX were pretty fair and insightful about the game.

112288

[bobheckler]

PP got him good at shoulder level, almost like a football play where you horse collar a guy.

I also thought the announces on FOX were pretty fair and insightful about the game.

112288

112288,

The guys on the "Game On" thread last night who were listening to the local Tennessee announcers felt that they made Tommy sound like Walter Cronkite as far as objective reporting goes.

bob

.

[mulcogiseng]

Only got to watch the final few minutes of overtime but this team is certainly focused on winning games and that bodes well for playoff position. It's way to early in the season to be worrying about minutes played. These things work themselves out and with Doc's management capability I feel confident that tired legs bragged by tweet won't be a Celtic's excuse come spring. I agree with those who have observed that at any crucial point in the game that is not the time for PP to ISO. Give the ball to Rondo and let him find Paul. That is Paul's only real sign of aging. He can't go one on two or three anymore. He has become consistent in not being able to run that play. Move on. Looking forward to seeing DWest make his return in Green.

[112288]

I guess at the end when the game was on the line they may have sounded like Tommy but they had reasons to. I believe there was a walk on Rondo's part late in the game that was not called and PP take down was sufficient for a FF. I think anyone would be objecting to those two missed calls even though I am glad we got away with them. But all in all the announces were pretty fair in my opinion with both teams.

112288

[cowens/oldschool]

The Celtics played down to their competition, once again. To their credit, the Griz never gave up and kept pecking away and pecking away and that kept them in the game. Ugly, but an ugly W is better than a beautiful L.

1. Paul Pierce's isos almost cost us the game. When they work they work but when they don't STOP DOING THEM!! God, I hate iso ball.

2. 33 year-old Pierce and 35 year-old Ray Allen played 43 and 40 minutes respectively. Funny, I don't hear them blaming the coach for keeping them in the game because they ran out of gas...(tweet, tweet).

3. Nate did a great job. Rondo was struggling in the first half and Nate came in and provided energy, scoring and defense. Rondo wasn't credited with his first assist until 9:33 left in the 2nd period. Good job, Mighty Mite.

4. Marquis Daniels stat line doesn't show much, but I have really enjoyed his game, both in this game and in the previous one against Miami. He's playing sticky D and takes it to the iron when he can. A great example of a player who "plays within himself". 3 steals and only 2 fouls while defending Rudy Gay, who was blowing past Paul Pierce. If Rudy Gay ever got into a shooting groove, this game would have turned out differently. As it was, he got into short zones (when he was being guarded by Pierce) and got disrupted when guarded by Daniels. Let him go on a tear and he will tear you up. Good job, Q.

5. Zack Randolph was eating KG alive inside. 10-14 from the field and I'll bet not more than 1 or 2 of them from beyond 8'. KG's clear height advantage was not used effectively. KG did make a HUGE steal, falling to the floor while flipping it to Rondo, in the OT which helped seal the deal. KG played hard, he just struggled at times. His two missed fgs in OT (or was it the end of the 4th?) could have iced it. As it turned out, his two made fts, courtesy of Zack Randolph's flagrant, iced it. All in all, though, I am loving his mobility and aggressiveness. He may never be the KG of 2008, but he's thinking he can be and that's night-and-day from last season.

6. Rondo's fts are excrement. Mid-range jumpers are flowing out of his hands now, but put him on the line and he's a liability. He was just 1-5 from the line last night. I'd like to watch some videotape, but it looks to me that he doesn't turn his body enough at the line, so he shoots his fts like he used to shoot his fgs. Maybe Shaq should coach him a bit (OMG, that's just too ridiculous). Shaq is making a point of keeping the ball up on his fingers. His release is herky-jerky, but the ball is being held well. I think Rondo's back to having his body too "facing front" and he's cupping it again instead of up on his fingers.

7. Dan Issel once famously described #5 pick Tony Battie as "El Busto". Smile, Dan, you could have picked Hasheem Thabeet #2, like Memphis did.

8. Shaq dominated his position. They tried Hack-a-Shaq on him and it failed (he went 4-5 from the line). If he keeps playing like this for 20-22 mpg, we're going to be extremely tough up front when JO and Perk are healthy. Extremely.

9. Delonte West is now eligible. Von Wafer played 2 minutes last night, against a mediocre team, and did nothing to justify his remaining with the team. As long as the health of our bigs is a question mark, I think Luke will stay with the team.

Now on to thump the 2-6 Wizards.

bob

.

bob great post as always

This Lebron is really turning into a primadonna of epic proportions,that 44 min crap was just his latest built in excuse for bricking every shot in the last 2 min of our game.I actually used to like him when he was a young kid overachieving carrying his team.Theres alot more in life that he has to figure out and with all his yes men and being coddled and worshiped his whole life,hes being exposed for what he is.

[beat]

Cow

RE Bron

Always wondered what a couple of years in a good college program with a no nonsense coach, such as Duke might have done to him in so many ways. He was always a kid in a mans body thus expected to be a man when he was just a kid. In some small way I feel a bit tiny of sympathy towards him. I do think he'll figure it out someday but it might be long after his playing days are over.

beat

[112288]

Well it is very lonesome at such lofty levels that LJ walks and although everyone who has posted comments about him are correct including myself, he needs to get one person who has a brain and an intellect to advise him on how to act and present himself. So far he has surrounded himself with knuckle heads who have taken the flash approach to his PR without taking a politician kind of approach to things. Perhaps he needs to hire Dick Morris who was President Clinton's advisor who built up the guy to look good when everyone was throwing the kitchen sink at him. Look at Obama, 50% or more disagree with his policies (Polls not my statistics) yet he is admired as a person by almost 70%.

Jordan was very aloof as they come during his playing days but he had the right strategist who made him look like the regular guy at the local basketball courts.

112288

[dboss]

Bob

on # 1. Totally agree. But I think this is a coaching decision. Rivers needs to consider that the Celtics are now well beyond a point where there best scoring opprtunity in a closely contested gtame, comes from the PP ISO.

on # 5. Were you surprised that Zach played so well? He has been a double double guy for some time. Zach had 21 and 11 and KG put up 18 and 9. It is not like Zach totally dominated KG.

dboss

[bobheckler]

Bob

on # 1. Totally agree. But I think this is a coaching decision. Rivers needs to consider that the Celtics are now well beyond a point where there best scoring opprtunity in a closely contested gtame, comes from the PP ISO.

on # 5. Were you surprised that Zach played so well? He has been a double double guy for some time. Zach had 21 and 11 and KG put up 18 and 9. It is not like Zach totally dominated KG.

dboss

dboss,

I agree it's a coaching decision. When the Celtics come out of a timeout and the ball goes directly into Pierce's hands and never leaves it, it's a called play by the coaching staff. Personally, I'd rather have someone inbound to Rondo and then have Shaq and Davis set picks for Ray and Paul and Rondo feeds them. Pierce is almost NEVER getting bailed out by the refs now, so gamble defenses are working better on those last second isos. Failing that, have Ray peeling off a weakside screen and have Pierce keeping his eyes peeled for him for the pass. I'm happy with Ray taking the last shot with his man fighting past a screen, as opposed to Pierce taking a shot with his man set on defense and channeling Pierce towards some help.

I warned about Randolph on your pre-game thread, so I was aware of him. I said we might have to put Davis on him, for the bulk, since he's going to overpower KG in the post with his 270# and good spin moves. As usual, many of KG's points came from near the arc, where the defense leaves him open. Virtually all of Randolph's points came in the paint with KG right there. Give me a choice between a 4 that delivers all his punishment inside and one that snipes from outside and I'll take the bruiser because, as we saw in this game, late in the game jumpers start hitting the back rim (as legs start to tire) but a 3 footer is going to go in and/or pick up a foul most of the time. Statistically overall it was close, but watching the game I saw it as a clear victory for Randolph. When the opposing team shoots 53% for the game and your man shoots 10-14 (71%), you're not getting the job done defensively. When your team shoots almost 58% for the game and you shoot 8-15 (53%), you're diluting the effort. Where KG shined was in steals, especially that crucial last one.

bob

.

[bobheckler]

The Celtics played down to their competition, once again. To their credit, the Griz never gave up and kept pecking away and pecking away and that kept them in the game. Ugly, but an ugly W is better than a beautiful L.

1. Paul Pierce's isos almost cost us the game. When they work they work but when they don't STOP DOING THEM!! God, I hate iso ball.

2. 33 year-old Pierce and 35 year-old Ray Allen played 43 and 40 minutes respectively. Funny, I don't hear them blaming the coach for keeping them in the game because they ran out of gas...(tweet, tweet).

3. Nate did a great job. Rondo was struggling in the first half and Nate came in and provided energy, scoring and defense. Rondo wasn't credited with his first assist until 9:33 left in the 2nd period. Good job, Mighty Mite.

4. Marquis Daniels stat line doesn't show much, but I have really enjoyed his game, both in this game and in the previous one against Miami. He's playing sticky D and takes it to the iron when he can. A great example of a player who "plays within himself". 3 steals and only 2 fouls while defending Rudy Gay, who was blowing past Paul Pierce. If Rudy Gay ever got into a shooting groove, this game would have turned out differently. As it was, he got into short zones (when he was being guarded by Pierce) and got disrupted when guarded by Daniels. Let him go on a tear and he will tear you up. Good job, Q.

5. Zack Randolph was eating KG alive inside. 10-14 from the field and I'll bet not more than 1 or 2 of them from beyond 8'. KG's clear height advantage was not used effectively. KG did make a HUGE steal, falling to the floor while flipping it to Rondo, in the OT which helped seal the deal. KG played hard, he just struggled at times. His two missed fgs in OT (or was it the end of the 4th?) could have iced it. As it turned out, his two made fts, courtesy of Zack Randolph's flagrant, iced it. All in all, though, I am loving his mobility and aggressiveness. He may never be the KG of 2008, but he's thinking he can be and that's night-and-day from last season.

6. Rondo's fts are excrement. Mid-range jumpers are flowing out of his hands now, but put him on the line and he's a liability. He was just 1-5 from the line last night. I'd like to watch some videotape, but it looks to me that he doesn't turn his body enough at the line, so he shoots his fts like he used to shoot his fgs. Maybe Shaq should coach him a bit (OMG, that's just too ridiculous). Shaq is making a point of keeping the ball up on his fingers. His release is herky-jerky, but the ball is being held well. I think Rondo's back to having his body too "facing front" and he's cupping it again instead of up on his fingers.

7. Dan Issel once famously described #5 pick Tony Battie as "El Busto". Smile, Dan, you could have picked Hasheem Thabeet #2, like Memphis did.

8. Shaq dominated his position. They tried Hack-a-Shaq on him and it failed (he went 4-5 from the line). If he keeps playing like this for 20-22 mpg, we're going to be extremely tough up front when JO and Perk are healthy. Extremely.

9. Delonte West is now eligible. Von Wafer played 2 minutes last night, against a mediocre team, and did nothing to justify his remaining with the team. As long as the health of our bigs is a question mark, I think Luke will stay with the team.

Now on to thump the 2-6 Wizards.

bob

.

bob great post as always

This Lebron is really turning into a primadonna of epic proportions,that 44 min crap was just his latest built in excuse for bricking every shot in the last 2 min of our game.I actually used to like him when he was a young kid overachieving carrying his team.Theres alot more in life that he has to figure out and with all his yes men and being coddled and worshiped his whole life,hes being exposed for what he is.

cow,

A couple of years ago, LeBron was a prodigy we all wished nothing but the best for. Even when his Cleveland teams didn't advance, we didn't blame him. His "decision" and the way he made it squandered all that goodwill for many of us. Abandoning Cleveland showed he doesn't have the superstar mentality that Bird, Magic and MJ had, the mindset that said "This is MY team, we will build it up around ME and we will win championships HERE". The way he went about announcing that showed me he really has lost touch with the common perspective. He's not a gifted athlete doing what he loves and is grateful for that gift anymore so much as he's a brand being marketed. What's truly sad is that he embraces that role, has abandoned his humility in the interest of being the icon of a global marketing corporation. Deus ex Machina. He has become a racehorse who stands there, with the wreath around him and the ribbons in his mane and doesn't see he doesn't look like a horse anymore, but a poster for next year's Derby. He's the completely egotistical poodle who wins the Westminster Dog Show and thinks that makes him Nelson Mandela or Albert Einstein.

bob

.

[dbrown4]

Re LeBron:

I watched some of the Heat v. Raptors on LP. The announcers, who were Raptor based, made some interesting forthcoming observations about LeBron and Miami and their future.

In CLE, the world revolved around LeBron. CLE and Dan cow-towed to every wish and desire LeBron made. He was the King. Now he is under the watchful guard and eye of Pat Riley and "In Way Over His Head" Coach Spoelstra. (At the start of the game, the camera panned to Spolestra. He looked like if the Heat didn't win this game, his job was over. Completely exasperated, hair all disheveled, hunched over.)

Let's face it. Pat knows how to win championships as both a coach and from the front office and the sacrifices that must be made to win them. So does DWade, although I'm not sure he remembers, or at least he's not playing that way against the elite so far. LeBron didn't have to sacrifice jack in CLE. Sure, he came to work, did his job, carried his team, but made little or no sacrifice required to win a championship. That's why he and CLE came up empty there. 7 years of nothing but me. Given the fact that he is a male means an even longer, slower time to change.

Pat's going to have to go cold turkey on him. Cut out the entourage, the ads, parties, nothing but basketball for life if he even wants to get in the arena of sniffing a chance to win a championship. I personally don't think he can do it, not in 6 years.

If Pat can pull this off, (and I've said before there are only a few people or organizations that can do this, Phil Jackson and LAL, the Boston Celtic organization and now Pat Riley), more power to him. This would clearly be Pat's greatest achievement ever, even more than winning 5 times in the 80's as coach. We'll see.

Sorry to digress from the original thread. All Celtic comments v. Griz were covered quite well. Can't add anything. Looking forward to DWest return and the adjustments.

I've said this before. If I were a Heat or past CLE fan, my opinion would obviously be different. But I'm a Celtic fan and the Heat are in our way of a championship or two. If we are to win, they can't. Thus I want them to lose.

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