Whats wrong with the Heat?

dbrown

I wonder how long until we our higher angels kick in and we start to feel bad for them?

They earned some scorn. It was a bad example of the worst kind of king hell pride. But damn...Haslem gone, Miller gone I must admit it is going way way worse for them than i ever anticipated.

Jeb

For me, never. Or at least until LeBron retires title-less. BTW, did Spoelstra ever play organized basketball?

But if he does ever come to Boston, I'll have to change my tune. I've said before, the only places he can win a championship is with BOS or LAL.

DBrown

With Mr James it is painfully clear that ol boy needs some boundries. No one is saying no to him and it is ruining him.

He came into the nba with an unselfish game and a lot of promise.

Not to throw water on a perfectly enjoyable schadenfreude parade, but I thought I'd take a different look at this. Taking a devil's advocate position, what glimmers could you see for the Heat? A few come to mind.

-- This throws all that 72-win talk out the window. They can now concentrate on being ready for the playoffs instead of chasing ridiculous regular season goals. Despite their current troubles, what's true for the Celtics is true for the Heat (and every other team) -- what really matters is how good they are at the end of the season, when the playoffs begin.

-- This forces them to face their inadequacies as a team now. If they were like recent Cavs teams and had a great regular season, other teams could expose their weaknesses in the playoffs. Since they've been exposed right out of the chute, they have the rest of the regular season to address their issues. That includes changing the coach, changing their schemes, and making trades. If disaster didn't strike until the playoffs, then they wouldn't have time to make adjustments, and the trade deadline would be long past.

-- This forces them to face their inadequacies as individual players. You'd think that even the egocentric big 3 would have to look in the mirror and be ready to make some changes. My guess is that Wade will step up as the leader of the team, which will be good for them.

-- Raise your hand if you think that the Heat could be a strong contender if they had good coaching, ran intelligent offensive and defensive schemes, and used their skills in a team-oriented way. I'll raise mine, because I think they still have the potential to be very, very good.

For what it's worth.

Outside

Outside

You make some very interesting points.

I just read a piece about Brom, Wade and Bosh all agreeing to make it so their contracts would run out together. I find that to be quite telling. None of them has ever been anything but a player, and mostly the brightest star on their respective teams. None of them have built or coached any team whatsoever. They may know how to PLAY the game on the court but have nary a clue about coaching. They built this team themselves, yeah Miami management had there fingerprints on the design, these players had theirs on the blueprint.
As has been pointed out nary a one of them as had to play second fiddle or come close to that role. Perhaps if they can learn that they can excell but they show no sign of being able to do that.

Still they are not to be taken lightly Wade and Bron can both win games virtually be themselves. But they won't win a series that way.

We'll see how things develop.

beat

Hi,
I hope he never comes to Boston. We don't need disaster in green. Unless there's a tough as nails coach and GM who are not afraid to spend a season to tame the spoiled brat and teach him one of the axioms of basketball: you are part of the team, not the other way around.
I think that if the circus aka Miami Heat doesn't succeed this year (and it looks that way, so far) no GM with championship aspirations will touch Lebron with 10ft pole.
BTW, the shortest answer to the topic of this thread is "Lebron". The other possible answer is "nothing".

AK

Outside,

As good as that sounds, you're talking about one guy who has had it and done it his way since 9th grade in high school and knows no other way to do it nor will anyone have the guts to tell him he hasn't done squat for 7 years in the pros, if banners are the measuring stick. That's 11 years total. LeBron behaves like he's already won it and is entitled to it if he hasn't, yet he hasn't even come close. Once again, only 1 coach I know can handle it, Phil Jackson and after this season good luck pulling him out of retirement with his bad back. Pat Riley, maybe. It's going to take a few years, though, to knock the rust off and dust off his 80's persona. But Miami can't wait that long. Especially with one of these years coming up having a work stoppage looming. Pat's in the neighborhood, though. That's the most likely choice.

dbrown,

I generally agree with what you say. Trust me, like you, I'm no fan of LeBron, and although I think the Heat will be a lot better in the playoffs than they are now, I don't think a complete turnaround is likely.

In the middle of last season, when the Celtics were playing poorly, Sam started his "glimmer" thread, which I thought was a great way to get people to look past the gloom and doom to see what could be good about the team. No one here is rooting for the Heat, but I was just borrowing that approach to look at the Heat from a different perspective. We can still take pleasure in their misery, but it's shortsighted to think they're going to stumble like this through the rest of their days.

I know that many feel that Pat Riley could come in and make a difference but I'm not so sure that he really in his heart of hearts wants to. Remember guys Pat is 65 years old and did have a health scare (skin cancer?) and a hip replacement in the recent past. When you figure the traveling media circus that goes along with the Heat and the obstinance of at least 2 and maybe 3 of his stars would he really want to go through the grind of an NBA season at that age. Also, this may be a stretch but something to consider, he is friends with Bill Parcells and I am guessing that The Tuna would tell him to think long and hard about returning to coaching and the myriad attitude differences he would encounter with todays generation of professional athletes. Todays players are a far cry from the win or die mindset of the 80's Lakers and for that matter the hardhat, physically and mentally tough 90's knicks. As has been noted both here and elsewhere, the past greats would never have pulled what Lebron did this past summer. They all would have rather died than go to another team with a franchise/face of the organization type player to play second fiddle in search of a championship. Even though Riles was complicit in the act I don't think for a minute that it didn't cross his mind that Magic (for instance) would NEVER have done that and he must wonder if a guy who would (and did) is a guy he would want to hitch his coaching legacy to. I know that this post may be a bit of a stretch but hey, its just food for thought.

bob

Good point,but a good coach in the right system should be able to figure out a way to have an uber point be able to get Lebron the ball in good spots and get his if they had one.The younger version of Pierce had to learn how to play in a system later on to be able to win.

Tonight same old problems,Howard 18 rebounds 24 points,Bass goes off for 9-12 FG's.The blueprint has been faxed all over the place.Bosh getting pushed around in paint,very Raef like.House cannot defend good points,they can expose his defense as Jameer Nelson proved again.

Gonna have to change roster alot,the parts don't fit and teams and their fans get up for Heat,never seen Lebron look so just okay with no imprint on game.....he looks like Cory Maggete out there.I don't see them coming on yet for a long while still,tonite 2 of the 3 went for 20,but only so many shots per night,and with 2 of them going for 20,still can't overcome ability to defend paint or stop any decent point.Even a Raymond Felton would be a huge upgrade.

cow

I know Wade's been hurt but he's now 7 for his last 43 from the field. He missed his last 9 shots in the Charlotte game, went 1 for 13 in his first game back after the wrist injury and was 6 for 21 tonight.

Playing at less than 100% or not, 7 for 43 is brutal.

steve3344 wrote:I know Wade's been hurt but he's now 7 for his last 43 from the field. He missed his last 9 shots in the Charlotte game, went 1 for 13 in his first game back after the wrist injury and was 6 for 21 tonight.

Playing at less than 100% or not, 7 for 43 is brutal.

he hurt his left wrist

cowens/oldschool wrote:

steve3344 wrote:I know Wade's been hurt but he's now 7 for his last 43 from the field. He missed his last 9 shots in the Charlotte game, went 1 for 13 in his first game back after the wrist injury and was 6 for 21 tonight.

Playing at less than 100% or not, 7 for 43 is brutal.

he hurt his left wrist

I know.

cowens/oldschool wrote:

he hurt his left wrist

wristgate?

Matty wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:

he hurt his left wrist

wristgate?

and someones elbow hurts

Seriously Wade is having problem getting in rhythm,they've been trying to get Bosh more involved,not that its helping and thats taking away from the other 2,alot of chemistry issues and the problem at point and center,plus Boshs inability to play effectively in paint,will still exist all year.

The 8-7 Heat continue to struggled because there are serious structural issues on the team in terms of talent at key positions and roles.

Case in Point, LB leads the team in assists at 8.3 PG. On the surface one might assume that he is a willing passer but there is a big difference between a passer and a distributor. Wade and Bosh get 16 and 12 shots per game and the next group are stuck in the 6 shots per game range.

The lack of a good point guard is killing them. As a team they are only shooting .466 from the field. Seems to me that the big three are not playing well in the sand box with the other kids.

Now that Haslem may be lost for the season, the team will have to go through another chemistry change with the addition of sluggish center, Dampier.

I think the prospect of seeing Riley come down from the mountain to lead this team to the promised land is problemactic at best.

Riley is no fool. He must know by now that he really does not have all of the players needed to win. Is he willing to sacrafice his legacy? Moses himself could not lead this team to the promised land. The team is fundamentally flawed and it will take a few years to fix the problems.

In the interim, the danger here is that the so-called big three will find it more difficult to co exist and the gap between them and the complimentary players will widen and eventually fracture.

Wade and James are like two magnets whose + sides are facing one another.

More than anything else this team needs a point guard who will be given the green light to run the team and decide once and for all who gets the ball and who gets the next shot.

dboss

dboss

And therein lies the problem. They need a PG to distribute but how is a PG to distribute when he won't have the ball in his hands?

Neither Bron nor Wade are good off the ball players and to think that now after 7 years or so in the league, they would defer primary ball handling to any PG is a tough sell!

To work henceforth SOMEBODY is going to have to sacrifice their stats and time handling the ball. To CHANGE THEIR game for the betterment of the team.

So far that just aint happening.

For the Celts in 08 all three guys made changes, willingly. Specialy one Ray Allen.

jeb

They're still not trusting their point guard,could he have game?they're own scheme doesn't let the point be a point.Wade and Lebron taking turns initiating ain't working.....total hero offense,your turn,my turn.Did I tell you the defense sucks too?Why am I enjoying them failing so much?

cow

cow

it seems to me that nobody has been willing to sacrifice for the greater good. That is very unceltic and prolly part of the reason the heats struggles are something you embrace.

Guess who lost again tonite? and Lebron didn't have to play 40 plus tonite,good for him.They lost to a team on the second night of a back to back and 4th game in 5 nights.Heat starting center had 0 points and 3 rebounds,they're starting PG had ZERO assists,forget about making others better,this season Lebron can't even dominate or win his match ups.Wheres the Lebron that would be pissed off and go for 40 or a triple double and leave an imprint on the game?Well now he needs his minutes monitored.....don't be playin me no 40.I don't see the intelligence or fire.Did anyone see how bad this team executed during crunch time?Run hard at them,go after their obvious weakness and they will fold and basically give you the game.Tyson Chandler went off for 14 points and 17 boards,previously Howard went off for 24 and 18 in a game that Brandon Bass went off for 9-12 FG.......still WORST defensive team in the league in the paint.

not much will to win. lot of jumpers at crunch time. very strange.

I think Wade and Elbow Man are too similar, redundant even. Trade one of them for a top point guard and you have a better TEAM.

The difference between the Heat the the Championship Celtics was our lockdown defense. I don't see the Heat "sacrificing" a lot. Their shots will automatically go down due to they aren't handling the ball all the time like they did for their former teams. The Heat need to trade to better themselves this year.