The Autopsy Report

Maybe Brad felt more comfortable naming Joe Mazzula as the interim head coach.  To some folks, the more obvious choice was Damon Stoudamire.  In retrospect. it is quite possible that because CJ was Brad's guy while Damon was connected to Ime, Damon was tainted by association.  Brad's decision to go with CJ was a decision that had a profound impact on the Celtics season and on their franchise moving forward.

Early on the Celtics looked like world beaters and during that process they became a team that won more with offense then with their defense.  By the end of the regular season it appeared that the defense was improving and there seemed to be a better balance between the two.

Going into the playoffs there was a clear dependency on outscoring their opponents with a particular emphasis on volume 3 point shooting and accuracy.

In the end the Celtics defense held up pretty good but their offense repeatedly sputtered while shooting quite poorly from deep in 3 out of the 4 losses to the Heat. They shot under 30% from deep in 3 losses and below 35% in their other loss.

Consider that Boston entered the series against the Heat shooting 39% from deep.

I know what happened because I watched it happen.

You can begin with a coaching philosophy about 3 point shooting and all the analytics that support that philosophy.  Throughout the entire season and during the playoffs the Celtics 3 point shooting success was contingent upon great ball movement (multiple passes per possession) and inside out approach where paint touches were used to collapse the defense.

So what changed?

What changed was the Celtics inability to run their 3 point dominated offense against a variety of zone defenses used by the Heat.

In my pre-series thread I mentioned this as a key element in the Celtics waging a successful campaign.

You do not have to be a coach to see what is happening.  You do not have to be an expert.  You just need to be a fan that understands the game of basketball.  As we look at different teams and pay attention to their strength and weaknesses, the Celtics approach to defeating zone defense by the Heat was front and center in this fan's mind..  If nothing else, the history of how they played against us should be a sufficient reminder.

Of all the things that have disappointed me none disappoint me more than the Celtics inability to play against the Heat zones.
 
This is the point where a team is ill prepared and often confused.  This is a point where the coach becomes a more singular cause.  CJ did not prepare his team to play effectively on offense vs the Heat.

Just maybe a coach with more experience would have been able to figure this out.  In the end it still comes down to X's and O's.

CJ did a good job this year and during the playoffs however what this team really needed was a great job from him.  They simply did not get that from him and no one should be a bit surprised.  Like I said before you do not hand the keys to the luxury vehicle over  to the inexperienced operator.

The dilemma for the Celtics organization is that they have tied their own hands once they made CJ the coach.  There is no question in my mind that CJ improved as a coach and he is likely to continue to be better at his job.  However he should not have been named coach unless there was a high degree of certainty that he was ready to take this team to the championship round this season.  

At the end of the day our team lost 3 games at home against  a team layered with players that never got drafted.  We witnessed a coach that was ill prepared to take his team to the finals.
 
There is little reason for any fans to indulged themselves in being patient.  We have no idea how long it will take for CJ to become a great coach.   If you want to win in this league you need a talented roster and a high end coach.

Brad Stevens is the architect of this project.  He has certainly received a good share of praise for building this team and adding to it.  It seems to me his job was incomplete again.  All the so-called depth was meaningless during the playoffs and our rookie coach could not seem to figure out his rotations.  Grant Williams became a  dnp in a few too many games and Hauser never got a chance to break a sweat.  Our make believe big man depth was a non factor during the playoffs.  Brad final roster addition did nothing to make us a better team.  His best move was making the trade for MB but that was not enough.  We still needed a quality big off the bench.   In a Pass/Fail grading system I would be compelled to hand him an 'F'

The players also get an 'F'   They were collectively shameful when playing at home in front of their fans. I have never witnessed anything like that before.
 
It will be very interesting to see how long the equity ownership group will be willing to dump money into the crapper.

Over the summer I fully expect the players to work on their games because they have always done that.  I would recommend that CJ check out the book '100 ways to Win A Basketball Game Against Zone Defenses.'

If you want to win in this league you need a talented roster and a high end coach.


We had the talent and a not so high end coach. The latter is what cost us a championship.

One thing I’d like to see different next year is to have three below average 3 point shooters take many fewer attempts. Tatum, Brown and Smart all shoot threes at less than the league average of 36%. Tatum is first, Brown second, and Smart is fourth on attempts for the Celtics.

Could Coach Joe somehow convince them to only take “wide open” or “open” threes? I think we’d be better off, but I’m skeptical Joe would insist on it.

Bobc

They will not stop taking threes. Good ones and not so good ones.

I think it is pretty much baked in the cake.  Maybe a center who is a scorer and can command the ball could change the focus away from 3 pointers or bust.  None of our bigs are go to guys.  Our offense lacks balance.

A trade seems possible.

I however do not believe we lost because of our play at center.

The Heat were the worse matchup for the Celtics.  It was their zones.

High volume 3 point shooting ain't all it's hyped up to be but yet the C's can't seem to curb the addiction. I realize that GS revolutionized the way 3 point shots are viewed, but they also have the greatest pure shooter in NBA history.

But you still have to get to the paint, draw fouls, remain a viable threat in the midrange.... oh yeah and stop the other team on defense. You have to make offensive and defensive adjustments to counter what your opponent is doing.


KJ

Ktron wrote: If you want to win in this league you need a talented roster and a high end coach.


We had the talent and a not so high end coach. The latter is what cost us a championship.

+1

So obvious, he was good enough in the regular season, in the playoffs where adjustments are necessary, he was exposed as stubborn and incapable of making adjustments. Hated seeing how hard we always had to work, need a system of easier baskets, that helps players efficiency.

Stevens said he wouldn’t have been able to do what Mazzulla did, implementing a system, plan and getting ready for training camp in a matter of days.

First of all, Brad, Joe explicitly stated in training camp that he was deliberately not changing a lot from Ime's system.  So he didn't implement a new system.  Secondly, he was going to be an assistant coach even if Ime stayed and should have been ready for training camp anyway.  Thirdly, the fundamental problem here is that Joe's game time attitude all season was that of an assistant coach, "let the players work through their issues".  Head coaches TELL their players what they want them to do and when they want them to do it and, when they aren't listening, they call a timeout to make damn sure they do.  It wasn't until the last 2 games of the Miami series that Joe started to do that and by then we were burned out.

I understand why Brad said all this.  He and Wyc picked a rookie to be a head coach of a team that was in the Finals the previous year and he coached like a rookie in the playoffs.  They've decided to keep him, and I can understand why they wouldn't cut him loose after one season on a number of levels, so Brad has to support him.  That doesn't mean Brad and Wyc don't bear some of the responsibility for picking a rookie head coach.  If Joe did "as well or better than could have been expected" that might be because, as a rookie, his expectations were low, and that's not Championship thinking.


Bob


.

Yeah. And if it didn’t rain, it would be sunny.

Mazzulla didn’t cost the Celtics a shot at a title. Was he a rookie coach still building his game? Yes. Did he have a hand in things going South? He’s the coach, he shares the blame in a team collapse. That would have been true of Ime or even Red in playoff losses in the past.

There was a vast collection of problems that cost the Celtics, primarily their lack of bigs capable of executing an inside game. As has been mentioned, there is no balance to the lineups afforded by the current roster. An on again off again focus on the defensive end doesn’t help. The one dimensional offense can be stopped by opponents throwing a few changeups on their defensive end.

Although I like dboss’s  clever autopsy title for this thread, I would say it could be major surgery or joint replacement that’s needed rather than a post-mortem. This is just not a championship roster. I believe Mazzulla could be the right guy to lead the team. I’m withholding final judgement to see what Brad and Joe team up to do to make the changes needed to hang a banner. I say it’s time for the GM and coach to play surgeon and stall the coroner for now.

NYCelt wrote:Yeah. And if it didn’t rain, it would be sunny.

Mazzulla didn’t cost the Celtics a shot at a title. Was he a rookie coach still building his game? Yes. Did he have a hand in things going South? He’s the coach, he shares the blame in a team collapse. That would have been true of Ime or even Red in playoff losses in the past.

There was a vast collection of problems that cost the Celtics, primarily their lack of bigs capable of executing an inside game. As has been mentioned, there is no balance to the lineups afforded by the current roster. An on again off again focus on the defensive end doesn’t help. The one dimensional offense can be stopped by opponents throwing a few changeups on their defensive end.

Although I like dboss’s  clever autopsy title for this thread, I would say it could be major surgery or joint replacement that’s needed rather than a post-mortem. This is just not a championship roster. I believe Mazzulla could be the right guy to lead the team. I’m withholding final judgement to see what Brad and Joe team up to do to make the changes needed to hang a banner. I say it’s time for the GM and coach to play surgeon and stall the coroner for now.

Don’t know if I buy whether this is not a championship roster, we made it to Finals last year and the roster got better with Brogdon. White got settled in and improved. We definitely have a center issue with Al and Timelord as has been noted by many. Even with those problems we still have what many consider the deepest roster which could also be debatable. GS has a limited role player in Looney playing center, they won a title with him, he has less offensive game than both Al and RWill. No team is perfect like the 80’s Celtics and Lakers. I don’t think this roster is so flawed, if we could have gotten our stuff together, this team is right there with any team in the league on paper IMHO.

NYCelt wrote:Yeah. And if it didn’t rain, it would be sunny.

Mazzulla didn’t cost the Celtics a shot at a title. Was he a rookie coach still building his game? Yes. Did he have a hand in things going South? He’s the coach, he shares the blame in a team collapse. That would have been true of Ime or even Red in playoff losses in the past.

There was a vast collection of problems that cost the Celtics, primarily their lack of bigs capable of executing an inside game. As has been mentioned, there is no balance to the lineups afforded by the current roster. An on again off again focus on the defensive end doesn’t help. The one dimensional offense can be stopped by opponents throwing a few changeups on their defensive end.

Although I like dboss’s  clever autopsy title for this thread, I would say it could be major surgery or joint replacement that’s needed rather than a post-mortem. This is just not a championship roster. I believe Mazzulla could be the right guy to lead the team. I’m withholding final judgement to see what Brad and Joe team up to do to make the changes needed to hang a banner. I say it’s time for the GM and coach to play surgeon and stall the coroner for now.

                                                                  This shite just gets so tiresome.You'd think we won in 2022 to hear this bellyaching. You beat a zone, primarily, by hitting shots and attacking the basket. That damn Mazzulla just didn't hit any shots in game 7. Ime would have. As few of us, apparently, noticed,  the same shite happened last year against the Dubs. Maybe we DID'NT have a team that would've won with better coaching. All this bs about Mazzulla being unable to craft a solution to the zone borders on the obtuse.  Any high school coach knows how to attack a zone. Do our compatriots not think that JM has those basic principles down? Damn, the guy that appointed him head coach must be a moron. We didn't hit shots. Our best penetrator was injured on the first play of the game. Our second most efficient penetrator , Brogdon was already hurt. White did his best, but the lack of an outside shooting threat severely limited his options. Brown was awful, both shooting the ball, and attacking the basket. As for emphasizing offense, gee, maybe that had something to do with the fact that we couldn't score in the last three games against Golden State? Do you mean to tell me that all these veteran players forgot how to play defense because the coach didn't emphasize it enough? Gee guys, defend your matchups. Switch when you are supposed to. Got it Malcolm? How about you, Marcus? Didn't like JM's time out policies? He changed them. Wasn't playing Grant enough? He listened to his players and used him more. There is absolutely nothing Mazzulla could have done to change the outcome here. Nada .Zilch.Cero.I' m only engaging in this conversation so that NYCelt isn't the lone voice crying in the wilderness. I have no illusions that anybody will , or can, be convinced. We could be engaged in so much more relevant discussions, e.g. whether retaining two superstars and filling out a roster is still feasible under the new CBA,whether Al has exceeded his expiration date, what kind of contact to offer Grant, etc. Blaming the coach is easier though, and more emotionaly satisfying. Scapegoating is a traditional fan respose.

jrleftfoot wrote:

NYCelt wrote:Yeah. And if it didn’t rain, it would be sunny.

Mazzulla didn’t cost the Celtics a shot at a title. Was he a rookie coach still building his game? Yes. Did he have a hand in things going South? He’s the coach, he shares the blame in a team collapse. That would have been true of Ime or even Red in playoff losses in the past.

There was a vast collection of problems that cost the Celtics, primarily their lack of bigs capable of executing an inside game. As has been mentioned, there is no balance to the lineups afforded by the current roster. An on again off again focus on the defensive end doesn’t help. The one dimensional offense can be stopped by opponents throwing a few changeups on their defensive end.

Although I like dboss’s  clever autopsy title for this thread, I would say it could be major surgery or joint replacement that’s needed rather than a post-mortem. This is just not a championship roster. I believe Mazzulla could be the right guy to lead the team. I’m withholding final judgement to see what Brad and Joe team up to do to make the changes needed to hang a banner. I say it’s time for the GM and coach to play surgeon and stall the coroner for now.

                                                                  This shite just gets so tiresome.You'd think we won in 2022 to hear this bellyaching. You beat a zone, primarily, by hitting shots and attacking the basket. That damn Mazzulla just didn't hit any shots in game 7. Ime would have. As few of us, apparently, noticed,  the same shite happened last year against the Dubs. Maybe we DID'NT have a team that would've won with better coaching. All this bs about Mazzulla being unable to craft a solution to the zone borders on the obtuse.  Any high school coach knows how to attack a zone. Do our compatriots not think that JM has those basic principles down? Damn, the guy that appointed him head coach must be a moron. We didn't hit shots. Our best penetrator was injured on the first play of the game. Our second most efficient penetrator , Brogdon was already hurt. White did his best, but the lack of an outside shooting threat severely limited his options. Brown was awful, both shooting the ball, and attacking the basket. As for emphasizing offense, gee, maybe that had something to do with the fact that we couldn't score in the last three games against Golden State? Do you mean to tell me that all these veteran players forgot how to play defense because the coach didn't emphasize it enough? Gee guys, defend your matchups. Switch when you are supposed to. Got it Malcolm? How about you, Marcus? Didn't like JM's time out policies? He changed them. Wasn't playing Grant enough? He listened to his players and used him more. There is absolutely nothing Mazzulla could have done to change the outcome here. Nada .Zilch.Cero.I' m only engaging in this conversation so that NYCelt isn't the lone voice crying in the wilderness. I have no illusions that anybody will , or can, be convinced. We could be engaged in so much more relevant discussions, e.g. whether retaining two superstars and filling out a roster is still feasible under the new CBA, whether Al has exceeded his expiration date, what kind of contact to offer Grant, etc. Blaming the coach is easier though, and more emotionaly satisfying. Scapegoating is a traditional fan response.

+100

It is tiresome.  

It is expected.  

It will continue.

Sigh.

bobheckler wrote:Stevens said he wouldn’t have been able to do what Mazzulla did, implementing a system, plan and getting ready for training camp in a matter of days.

First of all, Brad, Joe explicitly stated in training camp that he was deliberately not changing a lot from Ime's system.  So he didn't implement a new system.  Secondly, he was going to be an assistant coach even if Ime stayed and should have been ready for training camp anyway.  Thirdly, the fundamental problem here is that Joe's game time attitude all season was that of an assistant coach, "let the players work through their issues".  Head coaches TELL their players what they want them to do and when they want them to do it and, when they aren't listening, they call a timeout to make damn sure they do.  It wasn't until the last 2 games of the Miami series that Joe started to do that and by then we were burned out.

I understand why Brad said all this.  He and Wyc picked a rookie to be a head coach of a team that was in the Finals the previous year and he coached like a rookie in the playoffs.  They've decided to keep him, and I can understand why they wouldn't cut him loose after one season on a number of levels, so Brad has to support him.  That doesn't mean Brad and Wyc don't bear some of the responsibility for picking a rookie head coach.  If Joe did "as well or better than could have been expected" that might be because, as a rookie, his expectations were low, and that's not Championship thinking.


Bob


.

He did burn out the team, we had a deeper roster and Miami was short 2 rotation players, one their second leading scorer and Joe cutting the rotation to 7 took away our depth advantage. I also think Jaylen was never right, and Brogdon’s injury took away his whole game. Breaks of the game, wasn’t our year after it sure could have been….

jrleftfoot wrote:

NYCelt wrote:Yeah. And if it didn’t rain, it would be sunny.

Mazzulla didn’t cost the Celtics a shot at a title. Was he a rookie coach still building his game? Yes. Did he have a hand in things going South? He’s the coach, he shares the blame in a team collapse. That would have been true of Ime or even Red in playoff losses in the past.

There was a vast collection of problems that cost the Celtics, primarily their lack of bigs capable of executing an inside game. As has been mentioned, there is no balance to the lineups afforded by the current roster. An on again off again focus on the defensive end doesn’t help. The one dimensional offense can be stopped by opponents throwing a few changeups on their defensive end.

Although I like dboss’s  clever autopsy title for this thread, I would say it could be major surgery or joint replacement that’s needed rather than a post-mortem. This is just not a championship roster. I believe Mazzulla could be the right guy to lead the team. I’m withholding final judgement to see what Brad and Joe team up to do to make the changes needed to hang a banner. I say it’s time for the GM and coach to play surgeon and stall the coroner for now.

                                                                  This shite just gets so tiresome.You'd think we won in 2022 to hear this bellyaching. You beat a zone, primarily, by hitting shots and attacking the basket. That damn Mazzulla just didn't hit any shots in game 7. Ime would have. As few of us, apparently, noticed,  the same shite happened last year against the Dubs. Maybe we DID'NT have a team that would've won with better coaching. All this bs about Mazzulla being unable to craft a solution to the zone borders on the obtuse.  Any high school coach knows how to attack a zone. Do our compatriots not think that JM has those basic principles down? Damn, the guy that appointed him head coach must be a moron. We didn't hit shots. Our best penetrator was injured on the first play of the game. Our second most efficient penetrator , Brogdon was already hurt. White did his best, but the lack of an outside shooting threat severely limited his options. Brown was awful, both shooting the ball, and attacking the basket. As for emphasizing offense, gee, maybe that had something to do with the fact that we couldn't score in the last three games against Golden State? Do you mean to tell me that all these veteran players forgot how to play defense because the coach didn't emphasize it enough? Gee guys, defend your matchups. Switch when you are supposed to. Got it Malcolm? How about you, Marcus? Didn't like JM's time out policies? He changed them. Wasn't playing Grant enough? He listened to his players and used him more. There is absolutely nothing Mazzulla could have done to change the outcome here. Nada .Zilch.Cero.I' m only engaging in this conversation so that NYCelt isn't the lone voice crying in the wilderness. I have no illusions that anybody will , or can, be convinced. We could be engaged in so much more relevant discussions, e.g. whether retaining two superstars and filling out a roster is still feasible under the new CBA,whether Al has exceeded his expiration date, what kind of contact to offer Grant, etc. Blaming the coach is easier though, and more emotionaly satisfying. Scapegoating is a traditional fan respose.

I don’t know what you were watching, but that Miami zone worked to perfection for them too many times in this series. Game 1 we had a 9 point lead, they put in the zone and in 2 minutes it’s tied in a game we blew homecourt advantage.

Maybe you guys shouldn’t read the Globe, the Herald, etc. Plenty examples of Joes coaching that they questioned….and love you guys!!

k_j_88 wrote:High volume 3 point shooting ain't all it's hyped up to be but yet the C's can't seem to curb the addiction. I realize that GS revolutionized the way 3 point shots are viewed, but they also have the greatest pure shooter in NBA history.

But you still have to get to the paint, draw fouls, remain a viable threat in the midrange.... oh yeah and stop the other team on defense. You have to make offensive and defensive adjustments to counter what your opponent is doing.


KJ

The last 3 games that his team lost to end the season, Curry himself was terrible from 3, impacting the losses. 3 point shooting is very streaky, all players have hot streaks and cold streaks. Agreed there is so much more to winning the game than 3’s. Unfortunately in this era so many times if one team hits say 15 3’s and the other say 7, the team with higher 3’s generally always wins.

cowens/oldschool wrote:Maybe you guys shouldn’t read the Globe, the Herald, etc. Plenty examples of Joes coaching that they questioned….and love you guys!!

Maybe you guys shouldn't take the click-bait media presentations in these publications as reality and look there for validation. Plenty of other sources for examples of "What went wrong".....and we love you too!!

gyso wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:Maybe you guys shouldn’t read the Globe, the Herald, etc. Plenty examples of Joes coaching that they questioned….and love you guys!!

Maybe you guys shouldn't take the click-bait media presentations in these publications as reality and look there for validation.  Plenty of other sources for examples of "What went wrong".....and we love you too!!

Well I’m in agreement it wasn’t all on Joe, but he was a big part of it. Stevens didn’t give him enough help and the players underperformed too many times too. I just saw highlights of the Bucks game we won by 40 in Milwaukee, both J’s had their capes on and combined for 70. This team has the talent, if only we could have bottled that performance and unbottled it for crucial playoff games.

Cow,

Depth is for the regular season.

When the other team has its top rotational players on the floor in the playoffs, you want your best players on the floor.  That's how the majority of NBA coaches work it.  Asking for Hauser or Pritchard or Muscala (etc.) to play meaningful minutes in a tight playoff run is just asking the cream of the league to hunt those players on offense.  It's a losing bet.

Maybe part of the issue should be more like, "Why did the coaching staff allow Tatum to lead the league in minutes played during the regular season?"  Maybe that's more on Tatum, because he wants his minutes and the resulting stats in his quest to be MVP or whatever.  I doubt it is that simple, or that Tatum even thinks like that.  

Nobody really knows because they ain't telling.

NYCelt wrote:Yeah. And if it didn’t rain, it would be sunny.

Mazzulla didn’t cost the Celtics a shot at a title. Was he a rookie coach still building his game? Yes. Did he have a hand in things going South? He’s the coach, he shares the blame in a team collapse. That would have been true of Ime or even Red in playoff losses in the past.

There was a vast collection of problems that cost the Celtics, primarily their lack of bigs capable of executing an inside game. As has been mentioned, there is no balance to the lineups afforded by the current roster. An on again off again focus on the defensive end doesn’t help. The one dimensional offense can be stopped by opponents throwing a few changeups on their defensive end.

Although I like dboss’s  clever autopsy title for this thread, I would say it could be major surgery or joint replacement that’s needed rather than a post-mortem. This is just not a championship roster. I believe Mazzulla could be the right guy to lead the team. I’m withholding final judgement to see what Brad and Joe team up to do to make the changes needed to hang a banner. I say it’s time for the GM and coach to play surgeon and stall the coroner for now.

I really don't think "major surgery" is needed. We definitely were inconsistent, but we were still a very formidable team. Joe's inexperience was a factor, but I truly believe with a year under his belt and hiring some experienced assistants he will be better next year. The coaches have to drill in a better focus on defense for 48 minutes.

Obviously, Jaylen has to work on his ball handling skills. A tweak here and there is all we really need. As much as I love PP, if we could get a tough hard nosed rebounding power forward for him that might help. We are lacking a little toughness inside. Blake provided some, but we need another dog inside.

The Miami series really still bothers me. We gave them 2 home games, and then had no margin for error like a Tatum sprained ankle on the first play in game 7. We were the better team, but didn't attack their zone defense well. Miami hit every open (and some contested) 3 pointer against us (48%). Somehow Caleb Martin was an all star for 7 games. Pierce and KG both said we should have put Martin on his ass, but we didn't. We let him get too comfortable. If game 1 of the finals is any indication, Miami is reverting to the mean.

Consistency and toughness is all we need. I think with a tweak this team can be consistent. Our stars are still learning. I think they will figure it out and get tougher and more consistent. Add one younger vet on the boards that is dog.

Celtics17 wrote:

NYCelt wrote:Yeah. And if it didn’t rain, it would be sunny.

Mazzulla didn’t cost the Celtics a shot at a title. Was he a rookie coach still building his game? Yes. Did he have a hand in things going South? He’s the coach, he shares the blame in a team collapse. That would have been true of Ime or even Red in playoff losses in the past.

There was a vast collection of problems that cost the Celtics, primarily their lack of bigs capable of executing an inside game. As has been mentioned, there is no balance to the lineups afforded by the current roster. An on again off again focus on the defensive end doesn’t help. The one dimensional offense can be stopped by opponents throwing a few changeups on their defensive end.

Although I like dboss’s  clever autopsy title for this thread, I would say it could be major surgery or joint replacement that’s needed rather than a post-mortem. This is just not a championship roster. I believe Mazzulla could be the right guy to lead the team. I’m withholding final judgement to see what Brad and Joe team up to do to make the changes needed to hang a banner. I say it’s time for the GM and coach to play surgeon and stall the coroner for now.

I really don't think "major surgery" is needed. We definitely were inconsistent, but we were still a very formidable team. Joe's inexperience was a factor, but I truly believe with a year under his belt and hiring some experienced assistants he will be better next year. The coaches have to drill in a better focus on defense for 48 minutes.

Obviously, Jaylen has to work on his ball handling skills. A tweak here and there is all we really need. As much as I love PP, if we could get a tough hard nosed rebounding power forward for him that might help. We are lacking a little toughness inside. Blake provided some, but we need another dog inside.

The Miami series really still bothers me. We gave them 2 home games, and then had no margin for error like a Tatum sprained ankle on the first play in game 7. We were the better team, but didn't attack their zone defense well. Miami hit every open (and some contested) 3 pointer against us (48%). Somehow Caleb Martin was an all star for 7 games. Pierce and KG both said we should have put Martin on his ass, but we didn't. We let him get too comfortable. If game 1 of the finals is any indication, Miami is reverting to the mean.

Consistency and toughness is all we need. I think with a tweak this team can be consistent. Our stars are still learning. I think they will figure it out and get tougher and more consistent. Add one younger vet on the boards that is dog.

All year when certain players were in a groove against us and going off in a zone, we didn’t change the defense fast enough, ex double teaming, forcing someone else to beat us. Agreed we need a Naz Reid type….we never knew what we would get from Al and Rob.

cowens/oldschool wrote:

Celtics17 wrote:

NYCelt wrote:Yeah. And if it didn’t rain, it would be sunny.

Mazzulla didn’t cost the Celtics a shot at a title. Was he a rookie coach still building his game? Yes. Did he have a hand in things going South? He’s the coach, he shares the blame in a team collapse. That would have been true of Ime or even Red in playoff losses in the past.

There was a vast collection of problems that cost the Celtics, primarily their lack of bigs capable of executing an inside game. As has been mentioned, there is no balance to the lineups afforded by the current roster. An on again off again focus on the defensive end doesn’t help. The one dimensional offense can be stopped by opponents throwing a few changeups on their defensive end.

Although I like dboss’s  clever autopsy title for this thread, I would say it could be major surgery or joint replacement that’s needed rather than a post-mortem. This is just not a championship roster. I believe Mazzulla could be the right guy to lead the team. I’m withholding final judgement to see what Brad and Joe team up to do to make the changes needed to hang a banner. I say it’s time for the GM and coach to play surgeon and stall the coroner for now.

I really don't think "major surgery" is needed. We definitely were inconsistent, but we were still a very formidable team. Joe's inexperience was a factor, but I truly believe with a year under his belt and hiring some experienced assistants he will be better next year. The coaches have to drill in a better focus on defense for 48 minutes.

Obviously, Jaylen has to work on his ball handling skills. A tweak here and there is all we really need. As much as I love PP, if we could get a tough hard nosed rebounding power forward for him that might help. We are lacking a little toughness inside. Blake provided some, but we need another dog inside.

The Miami series really still bothers me. We gave them 2 home games, and then had no margin for error like a Tatum sprained ankle on the first play in game 7. We were the better team, but didn't attack their zone defense well. Miami hit every open (and some contested) 3 pointer against us (48%). Somehow Caleb Martin was an all star for 7 games. Pierce and KG both said we should have put Martin on his ass, but we didn't. We let him get too comfortable. If game 1 of the finals is any indication, Miami is reverting to the mean.

Consistency and toughness is all we need. I think with a tweak this team can be consistent. Our stars are still learning. I think they will figure it out and get tougher and more consistent. Add one younger vet on the boards that is dog.

All year when certain players were in a groove against us and going off in a zone, we didn’t change the defense fast enough, ex double teaming, forcing someone else to beat us. Agreed we need a Naz Reid type….we never knew what we would get from Al and Rob.

Cowens

Naz Reid would be too much too ask for, we would be unstoppable with him (barring injury). I just want someone that is tough , can rebound , play tough d, get us a few hoops and is a dog that doesn’t back down

Post Season Post Mortem:






It took A minute.
I had to decompress and as my Pastor, the late Kenneth Marcus would say-
“Shake it off”!

Don’t get it twisted, we not talking bout the “Shake it off” that appears 44 times in that Taylor Swift song.
That’s an entire different thought with an entirely different meaning.
We talking bout -

‘Get the stench out and… shake it off’!

‘Let go of the emotion and…shake it off’!

Put the entire week of of 5/29 behind and …..Shake it off’!

This… may take a minute as well.

Game 1 of the finals has come and gone and our beloveds weren’t there.

Game 2 of the finals is about to tip off and I’m even more convinced that our team in Green should be there.

We are not. There are several reasons why and personnel wise, it’s not even close.
We should be there. We ain’t.
It certainly hurts. Ain’t gonna lie.

Deborah Cox had a hit song out back in the late late 90’s called-
“How did we get here? Nobody supposed to be here”
How many of y’all have felt this way after another disappointing loss?-

“This time I swear I’m through. But if only you knew how many times I’ve said those words?
Then fall again, when will I ever learn”?
Never.

We’re hopelessly addicted Celtsaholics that cannot be helped cuz there ain’t no rehab for it.
Celtsaholism is real.

I’ve read just about every post season analysis on this site and I do declare that they are for the most part very well thought out. Some expert analysis here.
I also heard Brad.
Lots of Sunshine and lollipops!
You’d think we didn’t lose.
Oh he’s good in front of that camera and behind the mic.
Bull slinging Brad might want to coach coach on how to address and handle the media.

Brad’s presser:




-Did anyone notice that when Brad would make or finish a statement his face would display a look like he was expecting for someone to call bulls$$t?
No one did but many, including here had it top of mind.

-Brad: “A lot went right”. -Do tell.

-Brad: ”Everybody is gonna overreact to the best players and coaches” -

Screech! Stop!!
Full stop!!!

Sorry Brad. You tried to sneak it in but Joe is not yet in “best”category: “We tried to get more coaches. When Damon left we tried. Its hard”

Ewwww good job! Great effort! But..unacceptable.

-Brad: “Joe has a ton of coaching experience”

The scale is off.

Brad’s “Press conference” came off so sweet that everyone in the entire room left with type 2.

Now, back to the business at hand.

-Joe Mazzulla:




A lots been said about Coach Joe and not whole lot has been good.
I guess you can say that about any coach.
Go on any teams board during games and you’ll surmise that the NBA coaching ranks are full of Dummies.
Let’s not fool ourselves. There are a few. Joe is not one of them.
Btw where Did this “Joe is soft on players” come from? I never got THAT impression. Softer than Ime? Yes. Softer than 2 hand touch football? No!

However for a first year coach with very little experience, Joe at times came off as a cocky, rude, stubborn and bland know it all which didnt help his public persona.

Joe took the job offered to him (anyone here ever turn down a job offer). It wasn’t thrusted on him. He could have said no. I know. Not realistic but he did have a choice and so didn’t the team.

So let’s not thrust that factor into the equation. I don’t think Joe would want it that way either.

The team knew about the Ime situation months before they dropped it on us. They hired Joe as the interim and then in my opinion made a poor business decision to remove the tag a good distance before the playoffs began.

So, Joe as the head coach of the Boston Celtics did a pretty good job.
Not exceptional but that was expected. We won a few more games this year than last year but in the playoffs we did not.
I believe that Joe had a lot to do with the C’s getting to where they got this year.
I also believe that Joe had a lot to do with the C’s not getting to where we were supposed to be, you know..the unfinished business.
Yes. Joe cost us a championship ring.

His stubbornness, lack of awareness when it came to time outs, His going into vapor lock when adjustments were needed, his rotations and benching’s along with his emphasis on offense and not so much defense cost us a championship ring.
Some of us expected that it was going to go down this way and it did.

I wont bother to delve into his handling of the media. I think you all know my thoughts on that. Besides, it didn’t factor into our not winning a championship.

Joe is staying. Joe will have more help. However, the coaches leaving and going to Houston could mean 1 or 2 things or both.

1-The simply want to reunite with the guy that hired them in the first place. Someone they know well and respect-Ime Udoka

2- They are leaving a team thats on the cusp of winning a title and going to a team that may not get in or out of the play-in next year.
Is this a subtle signal of discontent with their current surroundings or simply their loyalty and desire to be with the one who brung ya?
Either/or. It Really doesn’t matter.

Joe should do better come next season and I believe that Joe will.
Joe did become more humble during the playoffs where he was getting assaulted on a daily basis. He admitted faults and thats a good thing.
At least we know he’s not ignoring us anymore.

Im already looking forward to next season. I believe that our team will get better. I also believe that Joe will be a better coach next season.
Well, As Coach Mass used to say. “You better”.

A few of “The Fella’s”:

What’s the future look like for Jaylen?
I’d love for Brown to stay green but either way there’s a short list of musts he got to get to.

-I like Jaylen a lot but outside of shooting middies, he needs keep his hands to himself.

-Tie his hands until he finally learns how to bounce that ball and complete a pass.
Of course i’m speaking more from a mental standpoint as opposed to physical.
Jaylen needs to either get better and get it in his head that dribbling into a crowd of 3 or more can be as fatal as taking a long walk off a short pier.
And, speaking of water, stay out of the pool until you’ve mastered the art of the dribble.

Remember what I told you to forget:

-Forget those missed free throws that you haven’t been able to forget.
Go see a psych. You were once terrible at it then became good and almost damn good but here lately you’ve been damn shaky at the line.
Also-Stop the pretending and get back to defending.
We KNOW you can do that when you want to.
And…add some toughness while you’re at it.

THE Max not Cedric

I don’t know what Wyc and the Bain Capital boys are caucusing about but it’s almost time to cut the cheese.(I’m hearing there is no plans to pay him Super Max)
I speak only for myself when I say I want Brown to stay green. I have faith that he’ll work on his shortcomings and get better.
His ceiling may not be as high as the Golden Boy but he’s more than worth keeping around.
And speaking of….

Tatum:

-He can afford to add a bit of toughness too.
It’d also be nice if he’d become more predictable. For us-Not them.
Consistency.
-Tatum reminds me of a box of Cracker Jacks.
Ive long grown out of buying Cracker Jacks and guessing what the surprise inside will be. You feel me?
Quit keeping us in game to game suspense. We need to be able to count on you so get to working on it. Fix the 3 while you’re at it too. The regression has been appalling.
-Oh, and please cut the referees some slack every call they make ain’t whack!
Also, Find a Sitter for Deuce and distance yourself from your War Criminal friend, Draymond. Please?

And….FOCUS!

D.White/ Malcolm B:

Keep doing youz!

D White just keeps on getting better.
Who Knew?
-We do. Now. Joe did not. Joe misused him early on. Now Joe knows.
We know he can be trusted with the ball. Very rarely makes a dumb play. Can D his narrow butt off and can put it in the hole. Fundamentally fine as wine.
We need him on floor more. I think we’ll see that come October and future forward.
Right Joe?

-Malcolm almost made it. Made it through the entire season without any significant injuries. Almost. Suddenly in round 3 his shot stopped falling and then the word came. Elbow injury. Damn. Elbow-gotta go.
Our 6th man of the year couldn’t help us scoring wise and I am sure no one felt worse about it then he did. Another key player misused early on and off and on by Joe throughout the season.
Malcolm should still be around.We need him. We need his maturity.His common sense and his ability to rise up when called up.
When of the few moves that Brad made that paid off big time.
Rumors are floating about his whereabouts future forward.
Better be careful Brad.

Smart:

-He’s always been somewhat polarizing and that’s not always a bad thing.
This dude bleeds green. A true Celtic in the tradition of Celtics past.
Sure he can drive us crazy at times but his positives on and off the floor makes him well worth it.
If there is one dog in the TD Garden kennel, it’s Marcus.
We’ll get into pedigree in a few.
-If anyone is thinking that the C’s should put him on the ‘3 o’clock train to Yuma’
(My boss used to say that when he was getting ready to whack someone), forget it.
Marcus is where he belongs. In Bosstown Green.

Rob:

-Fragile. Handle with care.
Let’s face it. Our much needed center defender suffers with injury proneness.
I don’t count on that changing much.
The kid could be a Nomar but he just can’t seem to stay healthy. Instead he’s more of a blunder kind, an accident seeking somewhere.
It’s a shame because Rob is so talented and so key to the success of our team.
Will his status ever get better? Better to a point that the team and fans can count on him being on the floor-more?
I’m More than starting to have doubts. This is one where I wish I could “Shake it off”.
The angst will not go away. I’m less encouraged that i will ever see the day when this dude kicks a$$ without hurting his own.
It’s just the way it is.

Grant:

Another player misused by Joe. We know it and now Joe knows it.
It took his teammates to rattle that stubborn cage sitting inside Joe’s melon to get him to see that we need this guy on the floor.
Grant make great strides last year under Ime. This year not so much.
I think it’s pretty clear as to why but now the bigger question is, whats next?
Will Wyc and Bain pay him or will Brad market his services to others that will probably swoop him up in seconds. Not like seconds. IN seconds.
We will soon find that answer.

What’s next? My thoughts on what may be coming:


Not so Bosstown:

The Celtics and Bruins lost to 8th seeds in the same year. Bruins blew a 3-1 year and The C’s blew 3 games at home where they were a dreadful 5-6 throughout the playoffs.
As my Grandmother used to say “Who ever heard of the like”?

-We know that winning a championship is hard. Very hard.
We also know that you don’t get many chances to be in a position to win a championship.
22-23 was our best Chance in 15 years.

-This year our beloveds were blessed and highly favored, till they weren’t.
I concluded earlier as to the major reason why we didn’t make it-Coaching.
Coaching was not the only reason just a major reason.

-This group of players. This roster should never have lost to the Miami Heat.
I truly believe that we worked harder not to win as opposed to working hard to win.

Even if we had a crummy coach this team still should be in the finals at the very least.
We have the talent but the most talented players on this team lacks the inner strength and the rip the heads off of who ever is in the way mentality.

-Folk say We need dogs on this team?
We have dogs!
They’re dogs without the ferocious dog mentality.

We have one Doberman (Smart)

The rest of this squads pedigree consist of Border Collies, Pugs, Shih Tzu’s
Basset Hounds and Poodles.
We Don’t even house a Boston Terrier.
We have the above mentioned pedigree but we need 1 or 2 pitbulls!
Hell. I’d even settle for one!
This should be on Brad’s agenda. Seek and find Pit Bull(s)

-We cannot continue to let also rans become stars on our watch.
Like Paul Pierce said during the conference finals,

“Someone needed to put Caleb Martin on his ass”

We’ll be adding more coaches, hopefully with NBA cachet.
That should help us.

-We should clear the bench of dead weight. We don’t need players sitting in folding chairs disguised as assistant coaches and not contributing to the teams needs.
The Lukes of the world are cute to have but its time-
elbow ya gotta go!








-PP will be elsewhere. Thats a given.

-Jury is still out on Sam. Joe Mazzulla whatcha gonna do ah?
Hauser’s ‘In n out’ burger status needs to become either-or.
Quit screwing around with this dude. Im not saying give him minutes that he hasn’t earned.
I’m saying, decide to either give him decent minutes to prove he does or doesn’t belong or let him go.

-I don’t know if Jaylen will be here much longer. Again, I would like him to be but I don’t think he would like to be so the premonition that hovers over my thoughts tells me he will not.
Please don’t shoot the messenger.

-So we’ve already ID.Me’d the 2 Superstars and what their personalities will not allow them to be- Pit Bulls.

-That is the case and Its not changing so Brad needs to find someone(s) who compliments the 2 pups. Someone who will take a bite out of or ‘put somebody on their a$$”

That is part of your job. Go do it.

-This team is not missing much. We are title ready and have been that the past 2 years.
There.Is.No.More.Time.To.Waste.
It has ran out..

So I declare that Next Season..will be the time of the season.
And I really want to know that our our beloved will come out like Zombies with a ““What’s your name? Who’s your Daddy?” Attitude. Nasty is a must!.

This shall be our motto:

“Those who have nothing shall have less and that which they have shall be taking From them”!

Body snatching beasts from the East. Make a hole for that mean green and banner 18.





The league has been officially put on notice!

The Autopsy Report revealed that there were several factors that contributed to the Celtics demise in the ECF.  Everything was not put on CJ.   I just want to point that out to the bashers against the intuitive club.

However, the lack of an experienced coach was the primary factor.  

The funny thing is that I did a pre-series analysis and specifically mentioned the Heat and their zone defenses as a potential pitfall for the Celtics.  If you care to review it and compare it to what happened I think that you will find that it was pretty much on target.  In that review I even mentioned a need for the Celtics to find a rotational matchup for Caleb Martin.

In Brad's recent,  full of BS presser, truth still found a way to come out.  He even mentioned the problem with the Celtics offense.  He talked about the 2-2-1 zone that Miami was playing but failed to mention how they would also morph into different zone configurations in the same possession.

I realize that it may be hard for some of you to see this but those zones defenses killed our offense.

Since Brad mentioned 'problems with the curve' (zone defense) and if you believe that along with his entire pile of horse dung I am certain you can find a way to understand what really happened to the Celtics offense.  

The next question is why did it happened?  Were the Celtics players prepared to run an offense against a team that plays more zone than any other team in the NBA?  The results would indicate that they were not prepared .

Is it the coaches job to prepare his team to play against a variety of zone defenses?

Are our players suffering from a lack of intelligence?  In other words, do you believe that the team as a collective has a high basketball IQ?


When a team has played a certain way all year long in terms of being reliant on taking and making a high volume of 3 pointers by being able to do certain things that contributes to those 3 point attempts and makes, what changed while playing the Heat?

The Zones and the Celtics inability to play inside out against it.  The Celtics missed a lot of open looks but what I saw was a complete lack of fluidity in their offense.  

Jaylen mentioned in one of his post game interviews that he was confused (I'm paraphrasing)  He was telling the truth.  

Since the team as a whole with few exceptions (Derrick White) could not score effectively against the zones it usually means that the coach did not teach them how to do that. White is a Pop guy and it really shows.  

There should be no surprise here.  All of the folks on this board know how the Heat play defense.

Brad indicates how comfortable he is with the core.  I am sure anyone one of us can identify a position of need.  He can go out there and make changes but who knows if CJ will use them correctly?

Worse case scenario, CJ's one year as a head coach does not translate into dog years of experience.

CJ will be back next season but he was given a position way above his abilities as the HEAD coach.  I believe Brad made a mistake that may very well impact this team into the future.  Of course he is going to support his decision what else would anyone expect him to do.   Since this core was assembled we have never had a great coach with the exception of Ime who was given a team without quality depth.

As a fan I hold the Celtics entire organization to the highest of standards.  I have seen a lot of losing seasons but there have been more winning seasons.  This 2022-23 season was one of the most disappointing seasons I have ever witnessed since becoming a Celtics fan.

Ktron and Dboss, I am so with you on all the points you raised.

Regardless of what new players and assistant coaches we may get, the Celts simply must do the following:

STOP WHINING! It is detrimental to our play. Too often Celtics are focused on the last play and not mobilized for the next. Too often they are haranguing/antagonizing the refs, when everyone knows you attract more bees with honey rather than vinegar.

That's my piece. Peace out.

worcester wrote:
Regardless of what new players and assistant coaches we may get, the Celts simply must do the following:

STOP WHINING! It is detrimental to our play. Too often Celtics are focused on the last play and not mobilized for the next. Too often they are haranguing/antagonizing the refs, when everyone knows you attract more bees with honey rather than vinegar.

That's my piece. Peace out.

I'm in total agreement with you here.

I would go as far as to say this is my second biggest wish for the Celtics, surpassed only by the hope of miraculously finding the next incarnation of Bill Russell.