Phoenix Hires Frank Vogel

Won't fix having a 38 year old point guard who is under contract for two more years at $30M each year.  Nor does it help they have a power forward that will be 35 years old in 3 months and who is under contract for another 3 years for a total, including likely incentives, of $144.5M.

BTW, Malcolm Brogdon + Robert Williams for DeAndre Ayton is a trade that works, per an NBA Trade Machine.  If Phoenix throws in a future year first round pick, that might be interesting.  Between CP3 and KD I don't know how many more years they have to stay in the running fefore their top talent becomes a burden rather than an asset.


Bob


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Here's a comparison Bob
Rob  played in 35 games and averaged 23.5 minutes per game, 8.0 ppg and 8.3 RB pg
Malcom was in 67 games, 26.0 mpg, 14.9 ppg, and 4.2 RB pg

Totals = 2564.5 minutes, 1278 points, 573 RB

DeAndre was in 67 games, 30.9 mpg, 18 ppg and 10.0 RB pg

Total =2070.3 minutes, 1206 points, 670 RB

A very informative set of stats which unfortunately ignores defense.
DeAndre had 54 blocks
Rob 49, Malcolm 20 = 69

worcester wrote:Here's a comparison Bob
Rob  played in 35 games and averaged 23.5 minutes per game, 8.0 ppg and 8.3 RB pg
Malcom was in 67 games, 26.0 mpg, 14.9 ppg, and 4.2 RB pg

Totals = 2564.5 minutes, 1278 points, 573 RB

DeAndre was in 67 games, 30.9 mpg, 18 ppg and 10.0 RB pg

Total =2070.3 minutes, 1206 points, 670 RB

A very informative set of stats which unfortunately ignores defense.
DeAndre had 54 blocks
Rob 49, Malcolm 20 = 69

Very interesting scenario, Ayton can actually create his own shot and has a good looking mid range game, with the right coaching and improvement, he’s still young, he could be a legit center piece. If Celtics were to do it, then they know better than anyone Rob just has certain health issues and it might be the time to get as much value as possible for him. I love the best of Rob, but we need serious minutes, at least 25-30 minutes from that position and Rob may never be able to give us that. Al could be very good in a 12-15 mpg role.

We don’t need a superstar at this position, an 18-10 guy would be huge with all the other pieces we have.

Hey Ayton may not be a great defender, but he’s not Kelly O either….just sayin bob h

worcester wrote:Here's a comparison Bob
Rob  played in 35 games and averaged 23.5 minutes per game, 8.0 ppg and 8.3 RB pg
Malcom was in 67 games, 26.0 mpg, 14.9 ppg, and 4.2 RB pg

Totals = 2564.5 minutes, 1278 points, 573 RB

DeAndre was in 67 games, 30.9 mpg, 18 ppg and 10.0 RB pg

Total =2070.3 minutes, 1206 points, 670 RB

A very informative set of stats which unfortunately ignores defense.
DeAndre had 54 blocks
Rob 49, Malcolm 20 = 69

This is an interesting trade. I love Brogdon and would hate to see him go. Rob is awesome when he plays, but will he ever be healthy for a full season?
This is one Brad would have to consider. Ayton fills a big void. Our guard rotation gets weaker, but maybe we keep PP.

Great thinking, but Phoenix would probably want a heck of a lot more than Brogdon and RWIII for Ayton. Way more.

(And he's no Kelly O, you got that right Cow. He wouldn't get your blood pressure up like Kelly did on D!)

cowens/oldschool wrote:Hey Ayton may not be a great defender, but he’s not Kelly O either….just sayin bob h

Cow,

True, Ayton's a better defender than Kelly.  He also wants a shite-ton more $.

Kelly's Defensive Rating when he was in Boston was a surprisingly good 105.  For his career, including a year on the awful no-defense Detroit Pistons (112) and last year on Utah (115) his career Defensive Rating is a decent 108.  He started all 68 games he played last year, so he's durable.  Furthermore, if he came here I'm assuming he wouldn't start in front of either Al or RWill.  That means he won't be playing the bulk of his minutes against the Jokic/Embiid/AD/Bams of the NBA.  He'd be playing against bench centers/forwards like Patrick Williams of Chicago, Jalen Smith or Theis of Indy, those caliber of players.  BIG difference.

We need upgrades to our front court.  Al's 30-freaking-7 and RWill is a Ming Vase.  The Green Kornet surprised and impressed the Hell outta me, I never expected play that good from him, but is he good enough to be the 1st big off the bench all season long?  I've come around on him but I'm not quite there yet.  While he does shoot from the outside his fg% is not good.

I'm not advocating bringing Kelly back.  Personally I see him as a more expensive Moose Muscala, a mediocre overall defender (although I think Kelly might be a bit more mobile and willing to go out to the arc), certainly a force of nature down low, NOT a strong rebounder, NOT a playmaking big but still a net positive assist-to-turnover ratio, but Moose shot 39.4% from 3 last year too.  Why bring back Kelly for his money when we have Moose who has, effectively, Kelly's game?  Kelly's remaining contract is for one year at $12.2M, but is guaranteed for only $3M until the later of 6/28 or 3 days before the 2023-2024 league year (I'm assuming the "league year" has something to do with the establishment of the salary cap?).  Muscala's has one more year on it (club option) for $3.5M.  So why trade for Kelly, when you'll either have to pay him $3M to let him go or $12M to keep him, when you've already got Muscala locked in for $3.5M?

Payton's gone, pretty much guaranteed.  Grant may be gone to a higher bidder, and that would weaken our front court even more.  Given the choice between Grant and Kelly I'd take Grant all day but that option might not be available and, at $12M, Kelly is almost certainly less expensive than what Grant will be offered. Spinning disgruntled Payton and newly expensive Grant into a one-year contract on Kelly plus Utah's #9 pick might be the best we can do talent and salary-wise, especially if we're looking at giving Jaylen a Super Max contract that goes into effect at the same time Kelly's contract expires.


Bob


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Well I heard theses owners are billionaires.

If we lost Pritch or Malcolm wondering if young Davidson could earn and develop over the season? He’s same size as Smart, super athletic, no where near the defensive liability of PP. I think there is something there.