Post Game - Celtics vs. 76ers - Wednesday, November 15 (W)

Celtics-76ers takeaways: Derrick White plays the hero for short-handed C's

https://sports.yahoo.com/celtics-76ers-takeaways-derrick-white-033035476.html

Justin Leger
Wed, Nov 15, 2023, 10:30 PM EST·4 min read



Celtics-76ers takeaways: Derrick White plays the hero for short-handed C's originally appeared on NBC Sports Boston

Three Key Storylines

D-White leads the way
Horford gets it done on both ends
Bench provides a spark

The short-handed Boston Celtics prevailed against the Philadelphia 76ers on Wednesday night to earn their fourth consecutive victory.

Without stars Jaylen Brown (illness) and Kristaps Porzingis (knee), the bench unit stepped up to help Boston take a 15-point lead into the second quarter. Boston struggled to get stops over the next 12 minutes, however, and the Sixers took a one-point lead into the half.

The C's responded with a strong third quarter in which they limited the Sixers to 17 points -- tied for the fewest they've allowed in any quarter this season. In a hard-fought fourth quarter, Derrick White was the difference-maker as he dropped 12 points in the frame to seal a 117-107 victory at Wells Fargo Center.

White finished with 27 points. Jayson Tatum joined him in taking over in the fourth quarter and notched a game-high 29 points.

All five Sixers starters scored in double figures with Tyrese Maxey and Joel Embiid (20 points each) leading the way.

Next up for the C's is a trip to Toronto for an In-Season Tournament showdown with the Raptors on Friday night. First, here are our takeaways from Wednesday's game.

Big night for the backcourt

Derrick White was due for a big night. The Celtics guard shot just 3-for-12 from the field (1-6 3-PT) with seven points over his last two games against the Raptors and New York Knicks.

He picked a great time to snap out of his slump.

White willed the C's to victory with a brilliant 12-point fourth quarter. When his team needed a clutch shot, he answered the call.



White was efficient, shooting 7-for-12 from the field including 4-of-8 from 3-point range. He added five assists and a steal in what was an outstanding all-around performance when Boston needed him most.

The Celtics are now 10-3 when White scored 20-plus points. They're 85-32 in games White has played since joining the team. Sounds like a Top 100 player to us.

Al Horford does it all

Horford hadn't made much of an impact through the first 10 games of the season, but he rose to the occasion with Brown and Porzingis sidelined.

The veteran big man got the start -- his third of the season -- and did a little bit of everything for the C's against his former team. He made his presence felt in the third quarter, helping Boston make up for its sluggish second quarter with three made 3-pointers.



Horford hadn't made multiple 3s in a game since the regular-season opener. He ended that streak with three 3-pointers in five minutes.

He finished 5-of-9 shooting (4-8 3-PT) for 14 points, but his impact may have been even greater on the defensive end. He kept Joel Embiid in check and tallied five blocks on the night.

This was Horford's best game of the season thus far. The Celtics will hope the 37-year-old has plenty more of these performances left in the tank.



Bench provides much-needed spark

The second unit was the catalyst in the Celtics' 37-point first quarter. Dalano Banton, Svi Mykhailiuk and Luke Kornet each got an early chance to shine with Brown and Porzingis out, and they made the most of their opportunity.





Kornet led the bench unit with nine points and was a perfect 4-for-4 from the field. Mykhailiuk had five points, including a 3-pointer, in his 15 minutes. Banton hit just one of his four shot attempts but gave the Celtics an energy boost in the opening frame. He had five boards and a steal in eight minutes.

After the strong first quarter, the reserves held their own for key stretches while Tatum and the starters took a rest. Overall, it was an encouraging showing from the group and a big reason why the C's were able to avenge last week's loss vs. their Eastern Conference rival.

From another perspective:

3 observations after Sixers finish 0-2 back-to-back by falling to Celtics

https://sports.yahoo.com/3-observations-sixers-finish-0-030511440.html

Noah Levick
Wed, Nov 15, 2023, 10:05 PM EST·6 min read

3 observations after Sixers finish 0-2 back-to-back by falling to Celtics originally appeared on NBC Sports Philadelphia

On Tuesday night, the Sixers' winning streak ended at eight games. At the conclusion of Wednesday night, they've got their first losing streak of the season.

The team fell to a 117-107 loss at Wells Fargo Center to the Celtics, dropping to 8-3 overall. Boston improved to 9-2.

Joel Embiid and Tyrese Maxey were the Sixers' joint top scorers with 20 points apiece.

The Celtics got 29 points from Jayson Tatum and 27 from Derrick White.

The Sixers were without Kelly Oubre Jr. (fractured rib) and Nicolas Batum (personal reasons). Boston’s Jaylen Brown (non-COVID illness) and Kristaps Porzingis (right knee contusion) were sidelined.

Sixers head coach Nick Nurse said pregame that he’d talked recently with Batum and the French forward indicated he might join the team for its game Friday night in Atlanta. Batum said he’d be in Brooklyn on Sunday afternoon when the Sixers visit the Nets, according to Nurse.

Here are observations on the Sixers' defeat Wednesday night:

Three-point volume central again

De’Anthony Melton drilled a corner three on the game’s first play, carrying forward the momentum from his 30-point outing Tuesday night vs. the Pacers.

Meanwhile, Tyrese Maxey had another slow scoring start. After posting zero points in Tuesday’s first quarter, he did the same against Boston and missed all three of his field-goal attempts.

Al Horford started and played his usual solid defense on Embiid, who was listed as questionable for a second straight game with left hip soreness. Embiid did not look his most spry or explosive.

The Sixers needed players to hit long-range jumpers around the reigning MVP. That’s typically the case, but it felt especially true Wednesday given Boston often beats its opponents behind the arc and the Sixers’ three-point volume has been low. Per Cleaning the Glass, the Sixers entered Wednesday’s action 29th in the NBA in three-point frequency. The Celtics ranked second.

The Sixers did ultimately improve upon their season-low three-point volume of 22 attempts against Indiana, getting up 30 long-range shots, making 11 and declining fewer good looks. The Celtics still gained a major advantage on threes, though. They fired up 50 and sunk 18.

Surprisingly, Robert Covington’s inside-the-arc offense was an early positive for the Sixers. Covington, who started a second consecutive game, threw down a couple of put-back dunks within the first four minutes. The 32-year-old forward also converted a leaner and made two free throws after a nice cut along the baseline late in the shot clock.

Second-quarter Springer

The Sixers’ bench had a dreadful first stint.

Boston’s lead swelled to 30-18 when Jrue Holiday intercepted a Marcus Morris Sr. pass and cruised in for a layup. Patrick Beverley missed a floater on the Sixers’ final first-quarter possession and fouled White on the ensuing fast break. The Sixers’ bench players shot 0 for 7 from the floor in the first quarter and the team trailed 39-22 after a Tatum jumper to begin the second.

Again, it’s fair to assume that a Sixers team with both Batum and Oubre would’ve complemented Embiid better and simply had greater talent on the floor.

Jaden Springer did the trick for the Sixers’ bench. To start the second quarter, Nurse subbed in Springer, who’d played five minutes total over the Sixers’ past four games. The 21-year-old guard immediately made a corner three. He then stole the ball in the backcourt — the Sixers’ first steal or block of the night — and went in for an unguarded dunk. Impressive work from a youthful player to make such an immediate impact.

“You don't know when you’re going to be on the court,” Springer said on Nov. 3. “That’s probably the biggest thing: Whenever your name is called, being able to go out there, be ready and produce — no matter if it’s two minutes, three minutes, five, whatever. Just go out there and play as hard as you can.”

Springer earned himself the entire second quarter. Though he made a few mistakes offensively, including a travel and a moving screen, he continued to hunt the ball, apply defensive pressure and provide necessary energy. Thanks in part to Springer, the Sixers’ defensive activity surged in the second quarter. Covington nabbed two steals in quick succession, Paul Reed leapt high to reject a Tatum layup, and Boston’s offense didn’t appear as comfortable.

Reed’s first made three-pointer of the season trimmed the Celtics’ lead to 49-45. Tobias Harris then closed the second quarter strong, tallying five straight Sixers points late in the period. The Sixers overtook Boston and built a 62-57 lead early in the third quarter.

Too many flaws for Sixers to overcome

Three Horford triples over the first 5:01 of the third lifted the Celtics. The last one put Boston up 70-69, and Tatum then swished an impossible-to-guard, superstar's fadeaway jumper over Harris.

A Nurse timeout didn't stem the tide. Following two missed Beverley foul shots late in the third quarter, the Sixers conceded a wide-open corner three to Holiday that gave the Celtics an 83-75 lead.

Along with those sorts of deflating sequences, the Sixers' inability to exploit the Celtics' swarming defense on Embiid hurt. Seconds after cutting to the rim and catching a pass from Embiid, Beverley found himself open for a three that he shot well long. Beverley, Morris, Danuel House Jr. and Furkan Korkmaz combined to go 0 for 9 from the floor. A decent performance from one or two of those of those players would've likely given the Sixers a strong chance to win.

White tends to show his All-Defensive chops vs. Maxey. He limited the 23-year-old's touches and and chances to drive downhill, making almost everything taxing. Maxey again seemed to be frustrated at times with how much physicality was permitted against him.

Maxey initially wasn't very aggressive with Embiid out to start the fourth. On a couple of possessions, the Sixers ran dribble weave actions that wound up with White successfully denying Maxey the ball. However, everyone else contributed for the Sixers' offense early in the fourth. Springer pocketed another steal from Tatum and slammed home a dunk, and a Melton transition three cut Boston's advantage to 89-88.

The game was still tight when Embiid checked back in, but the Sixers then got two unproductive possessions from their stars, which proved costly.

An Embiid turnover led to Tatum storming up the court for an and-one layup. Maxey then zoomed in from the baseline to the rim, but Horford rotated over and blocked his fourth shot of the night. White made that rejection sting even more with a straight-on three-pointer that built the Celtics' lead to seven points.

With Boston's drive-and-kick game humming down the stretch, that was too large a hill for the Sixers to climb.

I just love the defensive tandem of Jrue and White. They combine a great sense of position/situation defense with individual defense. Today we were able to contain Embiid and Maxey because of defensive switching, weak side help and great rotations.

Old man Horford showed up to play today. Don't leave him on an island with Embiid and he does a great job.

Pritchard is finding his feet. I like that he is driving inside and forcing defenses to rotate.

Watching the evolution of this team with great interest.

Amazing win and as enjoyable to watch as any game this season. Tatum wasn’t in one of his do it all zones, but was cagey and clever making winning plays; not just chucking up bad shots as in some past years, when he might have been slightly off, letting situations come to him. He seems to really get it.

Holiday reminds me of Havlicek, yup I said it. Not so much in style, but in demeanor and poise all over the floor. His defense was beyond clutch as was the pace and intensity he played with. He at 33 seems fresher than 90% of the league, similar to Hondo. So many winning plays at crunch time and such an impactful versatile defender like Hondo.

How great was White? Great match up with Maxey and he outplayed Maxey!! Best game I ever saw from Luke, could not believe some of those dunks and he ripped down a defensive board, just ripped it. Where did that ferocity come from? Pritch is heady and relentless, his game is rounding into shape. Al was so clutch, his defense dramatic/dominant. He played Embid to a standstill. Enjoyed seeing Banton and Svi, would have loved to see Queta. Again enjoyed this game as much as any this season. Thanks guys you made me proud!!!!

I grabbed as early a dinner as I could (dinner time doesn't really start in earnest in Argentina until 8pm, but you better have a table because the places fill up FAST!) so I could watch the game, but when I got back plenty early I thought I'd just lay down for a second after a long day and then watch the game. I never learn.


Just looking at the boxscore makes me go "wow".

1. No Jaylen and no Z.
2. 50 of our 88 fgas were 3s and we only shot 36% on them.
3. Both teams shot 36%, we just took 20 more than them.
4. We had 9 turnovers and they only had 8.
5. We only had 3 more fgas than them.
6. Our 47.7% fg% is only slightly better than their 45.9%
7. They took 3 more ftas than us.

All those factors should have resulted in a Celtic loss.

Our bench scored 2 more points than theirs. That is particularly impressive given that two of our starters were out and, therefore, two of our bench players had to start.

We had 8 blocks vs 1 for them. Horford with 5. I cannot wait to read the Comments From The Other Side for this game. You know the Sixer fans are going to lose it, they always do whenever Al plays big against them.


https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401584822





Bob


.

I grabbed as early a dinner as I could (dinner time doesn't really start in earnest in Argentina until 8pm, but you better have a table because the places fill up FAST!) so I could watch the game, but when I got back plenty early I thought I'd just lay down for a second after a long day and then watch the game.  I never learn.


Just looking at the boxscore makes me go "wow".

1.  No Jaylen and no Z.
2.  50 of our 88 fgas were 3s and we only shot 36% on them.
3.  Both teams shot 36%, we just took 20 more than them.
4.  We had 9 turnovers and they only had 8.
5.  We only had 3 more fgas than them.
6.  Our 47.7% fg% is only slightly better than their 45.9%
7.  They took 3 more ftas than us.

All those factors should have resulted in a Celtic loss.

Our bench scored 2 more points than theirs.  That is particularly impressive given that two of our starters were out and, therefore, two of our bench players had to start.

Sean Grande
@SeanGrandePBP
Celtics with the NBA's...

* Best record (9-2)
* #3 offense
* #2 defense
* Best Scoring Margin
* Best Net Rating

Four of the top five Net Ratings in the league...




We had 8 blocks vs 1 for them.  Horford with 5.  I cannot wait to read the Comments From The Other Side for this game.  You know the Sixer fans are going to lose it, they always do whenever Al plays big against them.

Sean Grande
@SeanGrandePBP
In addition to everything else he did tonight, and he did quite a bit, Al Horford became the 9th man to make 500 3's as a Celtic.







Souichi Terada @SouichiTerada
yesterday
Jayson Tatum on Al Horford: "As I've gotten older, our relationship has grown. It's based off respect and the respect that I have for him, and likewise. We know we need each other." Says he sits next to Horford on the plane and calls him his "favorite teammate."


Derrick White with 14 4th quarter points. He had 13 after 3 and ended up with 27. He also had 3 assists in the 4th. Marcus who?


https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401584822





Bob


.

Lots of things to talk about here.  For one, as BobH so eloquently put it...WOW!  

IMHBAO, this game was all about whether or not our bench would show up/step up when asked given the late news.  I believe one giant leap forward for our bench would be an understatement here.  Who would have thought Kornet would lead the bench scorers?!!  That's stepping up.  Doogie and Al were moved up to starters with the late scratches of KP and JB.  And it looked like for 2 quarter, Al was going to continue in his lack of scoring funk for yet another game.  Well, thank God one half does not a game make.  Al was killin' it on both ends shutting down Embiid and bombing threes.  Al, you may officially take your seat at the table.  Scrappy P-Squared is just inches away from planting his behind on the chair.  I just need to see the scoring consistency ala Doogie we all want to see.  But in the meantime, he's dang near doing everything else asked of him and then some.  You would think he's a big playing under the basket getting rebounds and scoring layups the way he does!  

What may be covered up on this is how valuable Derrick White is and is going to be to this team.  Remember, typically he's our 4th or 5th scorer.  It's nice to know he can fill it up and step up beyond the call when asked.  Dang!  What an asset.  

cowens/oldschool, I know you don't use that comparison lightly and especially on this site as you would be hung out to dry and banned from the site if you were wrong, but I have to agree with you about Hondo 100%.  Jrue is the real deal, flirting somewhere between 2D's and 3D's every night.  Just as cool as a cucumber. And again, our 4th or 5th scorer on a normal night.  Kudos to Brad for wanting him since Day 1 as GM.  

Now I've got to go to the bank today to get a loan to back dboss's paycheck going forward.  After tonight, my skepticism is wearing thin.  Hope my credit rating is good enough!  

We might want to mark this game and/or etch it in our memories.  A lot was revealed here.  Let's see if the media picks up on it.  Steven A. is off the hook since he's green lighted us to and through the Finals.  He'll give them a huge vote of confidence today I'm sure if they'd quit talking about football!!  WHO CARES??!!!

I did notice the 3-ball dominating for us.  But that's how opposing teams are responding to the new scouting report.  Now they have to pack down inside because we will come in for layups and dunks until the cows come home.  Celtics taking what is offered.  The problem for the competition is it doesn't matter.  You can't double anyone because we are all threats to score from any and everywhere.  We know what one-on-one against Tatum looks like.  Fuggedaboutit.  Then you have to worry about a DW going apeshit in the 4th.  Or a JH steadily eating you alive for points, rebounds and assists.  Or JB waking up and going for 30 or KP bombing from 3-ville and pulling your Big out.  Take your pick.  Good luck.  On to Toronto.  

db

A little more on Hondo, he won titles at 34 and 36. When we first acquired Holiday, Steve W and I were discussing how much does he have left? Should we have given up an all defensive caliber big and the reigning 6th man of the year for a 33 year old? Well I don’t even have to answer that, because Brad knows so much more about hoops than an amateur fan like me….and Holiday has so much left just like Hondo. Teams really don’t know how to defend us, we have so many options. Every starter can drive, finish, shoot midrange and 3’s and post up and J’s are highlight reel dunkers. Last night another great attack was old school give and go, Sixers hadn’t prepared for it and it worked time and again. Great job Joe!!’

A little more on Hondo again. If you have time go to you tube and check out film clips of the 74 Finals and check out Havlicek’s defense. Stonewalls anyone he’s guarding, defending Oscar and Dandridge at a KG breathing right on you level. Then on offense multiple drives and finishes right over Jabbar.

Hi,
It was a very important win.
Psychologically: 76's are shaping as a EC contender - so it's great to put them down.
Our bench showed up and did it when most needed.

Now, I hope KP's knee will keep him off no more than a game or two.

AK

Bobby Manning @RealBobManning
about 1 hour ago
#celtics won the non-Tatum minutes again last night for only the second time this season (excluding 51pt win vs. IND where they did so in the 4Q). Boston outscored the #76ers by 51.7 pts per 100 with Tatum OFF for 10 minutes. Without Brown. 65 def rating


Bob


.

Tremendous win last last. I thought this may have been the best game the Celtics have played this year. Their offense was crisp all night, almost every possession produced a good look. Defense was also stellar.

JT didn't shoot the three ball well, but once again made the big plays. His decision making is so much better, and his rebounding and defense were once again outstanding.

Holiday is an amazing defender, both on and off the ball. Yes, Cowens he does have some Hondo in him!! He locked down Maxey when he was on him and also contributed some big shots, timely rebounds, and ran the offense beautifully.

D White was the player of the game. He just is so composed and gives the team whatever it needs. If he was on any other team, he would be an All Star. We needed someone to gives us scoring when the fourth quarter started and he made huge buckets, but also made some great passes. In addition his defense (particularly on Maxey) was just outstanding. This guy deserves such credit, he just does whatever the team needs.

What can you say about Al? I was getting concerned about his three point shot, then he knocks down 4 huge ones in the second half. He plays Embiid about as well as anyone. Embiid has to have nightmares about Al.

PP played well. His shot is still not really falling, but he is doing a great job running the offense and getting timely boards. His assist to turnover ratio is a lofty 5.6 to 1. He is only going to get better with consistent minutes.

Sam didn't shoot great last night. I think he was 2-8 from three, but he took all the right shots in the flow of the offense. That is all you can ask, and with his stroke he will hit a lot of shots.

Kudos to Kornet as well. If he can give us quality minutes like last night, then the rotation is set. He got a huge put back and seems to know when to cut to the basket.

Svi and Banton also contributed good minutes. They didn't make any real mistakes and brought great energy.

This game was a pleasure to watch. There will be ups and downs in a long season so let's enjoy this one.

Lets call it what it is.

A Signature Win on the road with 2 Allstars missing.

The old man managed to reel in the big fish and get it back to shore before the sharks devoured his catch.  Sweet revenge characterized by another 3 pointer and a great big FY to those Philly fans who could never appreciate what they had.  Not enough?  How about 5 get it out of here blocks?

This storyline is filled with a multitude of truths that screams we are better than you are.

Question answered.  Our bench delivered the goods right on time with no spoilage.

The Celtics spacing on offense was great but equally adept on defense.  The paring of Jrue and our not 100 best players, D White, looks like the top duo in the NBA because they are 2-way guys.

At what point did I know that the Celtics would win this game?  When the Sixers were taking 2's while the Celtics were taking 3's.  Arithmetic was in our favor.

The Sixers had every reason to win this game.  They lost the previous night to the Pacers and were once again playing at home.  The Celtics did not have 2 of their star players available.  In the end, the only reason that matters is which team is better than the other one.

I'm on board now, dboss!! My loan went through! The bank loan officer said you make too much, though. Further self-induced mouth running on my end to continue until the bank realizes I have a problem!

db

dbrown4 wrote:I'm on board now, dboss!!  My loan went through!  The bank loan officer said you make too much, though.   Further self-induced mouth running on my end to continue until the bank realizes I have a problem!

db

db

Certainly nothing wrong with fans having high expectations for this team and occasional doubts.

Yes, I expected a win last night even after the no KP/JB wrinkle showed up.

The Celtics remain in an ownership equity position when it comes to the Sixers. They simply are not a better team than we are.

Championship level teams impose their will on the competition. They step on their throats and mess with their heads. They display superior mental fortitude under extreme circumstances and still come out and win.

Tell that bank manager that dboss has extended a line of credit on your behalf to be utilized at your discretion.

If you take a hundred triples, and make 36 you have scored 108 points. Take the same number of shots fom two point range , make 50, and you have a hundred points.I'm not saying that bombing from distance is necessarily the best tactic. We had a couple of terrible games from distance and lost them. What I AM saying is that the three point shot is , and will continue to be, an integral part of the game because 3 point makes are more valuable than twos. I know, I'm stating the obvious. GS would never have won any of those rcent championships, if they hadn't been so proficient from distance. We've got some pretty good three point shooters. They need to take their shots when they are open. You are never going to win a modern day NBA game if you forego shooting threes. When you think of it in those terms, mabe 36 % isn't so awful. Finally, it's not necessarily how many threes you make, or even what percentge of your attempts. It's WHEN you make them. Every time the 6ers threatened to gain control last night, White or Horford came through with an arrow to the heart, or , if you want to be less hyperbolic, a punch to the solar plexis, from beyond the arc.

jrleftfoot wrote:If you take a hundred  triples,  and make 36 you have scored 108 points. Take the same number of shots fom two point range , make  50, and you have a hundred points.I'm not saying that bombing from distance is necessarily the best tactic. We had a couple of terrible games from distance and lost them. What I AM saying is that the three point shot is , and will continue to be, an integral part of the game because 3 point makes are more valuable than twos. I know, I'm stating the obvious. GS would never have won any of those rcent championships, if they hadn't been so proficient from distance. We've got some pretty good three point shooters. They need to take their shots when they are open. You are never going to win a modern day NBA game if you forego shooting threes. When you think of it in  those terms, mabe 36 % isn't so awful. Finally, it's not necessarily how many threes you make, or even what percentge of your attempts. It's WHEN you make them. Every time the 6ers threatened to gain control last night, White or Horford came through with  an arrow to the heart, or , if you want to be less hyperbolic, a punch to the solar plexis, from beyond the arc.

Foot

The Celtics lead the NBA Iin 3PA at 44.3 per game.

The quality of their 3 point attempts is dependent on great ball movement and excellent spacing.   Overall I am seeing improvement in both of those areas.

There are several high volume 3 point shooting teams but the thing that separates the Celtics from those teams is the Celtics defense.

Chemistry seems to be coming together.  That is no easy task when you change out 2 starters and 4 rotation players.

dboss wrote:

jrleftfoot wrote:If you take a hundred  triples,  and make 36 you have scored 108 points. Take the same number of shots fom two point range , make  50, and you have a hundred points.I'm not saying that bombing from distance is necessarily the best tactic. We had a couple of terrible games from distance and lost them. What I AM saying is that the three point shot is , and will continue to be, an integral part of the game because 3 point makes are more valuable than twos. I know, I'm stating the obvious. GS would never have won any of those rcent championships, if they hadn't been so proficient from distance. We've got some pretty good three point shooters. They need to take their shots when they are open. You are never going to win a modern day NBA game if you forego shooting threes. When you think of it in  those terms, mabe 36 % isn't so awful. Finally, it's not necessarily how many threes you make, or even what percentge of your attempts. It's WHEN you make them. Every time the 6ers threatened to gain control last night, White or Horford came through with  an arrow to the heart, or , if you want to be less hyperbolic, a punch to the solar plexis, from beyond the arc.

Foot

The Celtics lead the NBA Iin 3PA at 44.3 per game.

The quality of their 3 point attempts is dependent on great ball movement and excellent spacing.   Overall I am seeing improvement in both of those areas.

There are several high volume 3 point shooting teams but the thing that separates the Celtics from those teams is the Celtics defense.

Chemistry seems to be coming together.  That is no easy task when you change out 2 starters and 4 rotation players.

Wont catch me arguing with any of har, boss

Love ya, dboss!  You're the best, my friend!!  My goal this year will be to remove all my Celtic doubts and be the towel-waving Celtic fan I've always wanted to be.

Yep.  We're in their heads just as we were in the Lakers heads in the 50's & 60's and partially in the 80's and briefly in 2008.  9-3 still ain't bad for Finals record vs. one team.  MIA may be our nemesis/kryptonite.  We'll see.  They have us 4-2 in playoff series, 20-17 in those games.  Interesting.  Need to start correcting that if we see them again this season.

db

jrleftfoot wrote:If you take a hundred  triples,  and make 36 you have scored 108 points. Take the same number of shots fom two point range , make  50, and you have a hundred points.I'm not saying that bombing from distance is necessarily the best tactic. We had a couple of terrible games from distance and lost them. What I AM saying is that the three point shot is , and will continue to be, an integral part of the game because 3 point makes are more valuable than twos. I know, I'm stating the obvious. GS would never have won any of those rcent championships, if they hadn't been so proficient from distance. We've got some pretty good three point shooters. They need to take their shots when they are open. You are never going to win a modern day NBA game if you forego shooting threes. When you think of it in  those terms, mabe 36 % isn't so awful. Finally, it's not necessarily how many threes you make, or even what percentge of your attempts. It's WHEN you make them. Every time the 6ers threatened to gain control last night, White or Horford came through with  an arrow to the heart, or , if you want to be less hyperbolic, a punch to the solar plexis, from beyond the arc.

I agree with your thinking.

I would add, perhaps the most basic concept, rebounding. I mention that because the best 3-point shooting teams miss the majority of their attempts. There have to be 2nd chance shots.

To me, efficient 3-point shooting + boards = title shot.

If no one is pulling down rebounds, despite a decent 3-point %, I believe the odds of success are low.

I’ve never looked into actual stats on that, but that’s the way I would expect it would have to read.

Sorry, guys. My college Probability and Statistics course is blaring in my head and it will help bring some clarity. I've touched on this before.

You're hitting all around the issue, jrleftfoot. No disputing that a 3 point shot counts more than a 2 point shot. Absolutely there is nothing to dispute here.

Let's suppose the 3 point line was moved to the opposite zone line 94 feet away from the basket. You heave it from there and it goes in your basket, you get three points. The problem is, no one in their right mind is going to shoot from there. There's no value in that.
What gives?

NBA data shows that the league average for 3-point success is about 38%, correct? The statistical/analytical concept that teams care about and why teams are shooting more 3's than 2's is Expected Value (EV). EV = Point Value x Probability of Success of obtaining that point value. It's all relative not absolute. If you get 2 points for shooting a shot and you hit that 50% of the time, the EV is 2 x .50 = 1. Same calculation for 3's. EV = 3 x .38 = 1.14.

This tells you it is statistically better to shoot a 3 than a 2...ON AVERAGE. Unfortunately a live game is not played on averages. It's in the moment and constantly changing. At game's end, you get the averages. That's what has been making the Celtics so successful here recently is they are much more quickly determining what works and what doesn't all in the context of what the game (or the opponent) is giving them. Put simply. When Doogie's hot, give him the dang ball!! When the lane is wide open or JT going on a bender? Let him iso. But the instant or couple of plays you start barfing it up, look at the defense and make the adjustment. Find the next hot hand. This is what distorts the statistics during the game. The range, not the average. Dunks and layups for 2 points have a higher percentage of success vs. the league average for 2's. Better than 50% for the average. Wide open threes or a hot hand like Doogie or now Al, set them up and give them the dang ball.

Last few seasons, we have been 3-balling 'til the cows come home. Ball not going in from there? Just keep shooting. It will fall eventually.

What keeps teams from shooting all 3's is the range determined intra-game. When you shoot less 25% or less from 3-ville, it's time to stop shooting threes or you may knock yourself out of the game completely by the huge hole you will dig. But if you're Doogie or Al, and your hitting 80% of those for the game, you get the ball. Heck even 50% is more than enough.

To make the EV's for 2's and 3's equal or close to equal you have to move the 3-point line back. You would need to move the line back for equality to a 2-point shot so that the EV equals 1 for a 3-point shot, where the league percentage would be 33%, not 38%.

Right now the league like the 3-line where it is. And that's where it will stay.

You can win in this era with nothing but 2-point shots. You just have to be very efficient at it, i.e. much greater than 50% league average and greater than the 3-point average. That team would shoot nothing but dunks and layups. But it would work...on paper. But we know defenses wouldn't allow that and same for shooting 3's all the time, as we found out last season. Hence it's the guessing game and keeping the defense on it's toes as to what shot is going up next. That's where we have been trending. Our play almost looks like school ball where we're just ramming it down our opponents throats from all directions. Layups, 3's dunks...all coming in from everywhere. This is where the coach and his assistants come in.

db

Read this for one viewpoint on the 3 vs 2 argument =
https://www.bruinsportsanalytics.com/post/nba_stylistic_differences

In 2023-4 the NBA averaged 36.0% from 3. =108 points per 100 attempts
This year the NBA is averaging 53.5% from 2 =107 points per 100 attempts

TomAto. Tomahto.