Lonnie Walker

Dboss we are in total agreement on everything, was looking at the highlights that Bob provided and have seen Walker play before with Spurs and Nets. He has already went thru his development stage and can start for many teams. Whenever he got minutes he put up 20 points no problem. The commentators would marvel at his game and say he’s on a discount of a contract to show what he can do, that he’s worth more and he could blossom on his next contract/team. He really provides a dimension off the bench athleticism/scoring at a level no one else on the bench provides. I said in a previous post he might have as much or more scoring ability than D White and Jrue right now and was expecting Bob Heckler to rip me. Anyway another athlete to run and dunk with the J’s has me excited for b2b.

Three things that stand out to me with Walker. Every team had a chance to make him a bargain priced offer and declined. Why is that? Also Brad's own statement that he wasn't going to be pursuing anyone that would have an impact on the roster (paraphrasing here). He was signed to an E-10 contract, which gives the team the ability to pay him a bonus and send him to Maine. A 1-year, minimum level, non-guaranteed, salary deal and a possible $75,000 bonus to play a minimum of 60 days in the G-League? That, to me, says "I couldn't get more" and "compete for that last chair."

We've seen him play, so he's not a mystery. OK scorer, not a defensive force.

Even offering up the possibility that Brad was being guarded in his statement, Walker doesn't seem like the next Derek White surprise gift to me. When Cracker Jack used to have toy surprises, sometimes you would get one that was somewhat amusing. Hopefully Walker fits into that category. That would be nice.

I'll take another DW!!!  Brad's 1-0 now.  Why not go 2-0?!!

db

I read that during the trade deadline portion of the season Brad kicked a tire or 2 on possibly adding Walker.

Several guys are being brought in on E10 contracts.  Unlike the rest he is a legit NBA player.  However, that may not matter if the Celtics recent history of keeping the 15th spot open for later in the season.  

He could come in and play exceptionally well in camp and in the preseason and still not be retained.  Or he could come in and be who he really is.

Perceptions of good defense vs not good defense is very subjective.  But I am a numbers guy so I look at the defensive rating of a player and the team that he is on.  Walker had a defensive rating of 111.8 on the nets last year which was almost 4 points better than the team defensive rating of 115.4

Offensively he was not a great fit on that team.  Maybe he was impacted by a reduced role down from 23 MPG to 17.   I think you have to go back to see what he did with LAL for one year and also with the Spurs.

His LAL numbers produced an offensive rating of 108 and a defensive rating of 116.1  (that is a -7.3 net rating.

In his last year with the Spurs his offensive rating was 108.5 and his defensive rating was 111.5 (that is a -3.0 net)

Last season he did have a good defensive rating of 111.8 but his offensive rating was 111.3.  That produced a -0.6 Net rating.

Clearly he has improved (lol)

In all seriousness, what this tells me is that he does not add value to his team (does not make players around him better)

It is unlikely that the Celtics would spend $2.6 million plus tax for a player that while talented, has yet to learn how to play basketball at a level that makes his team better.

dboss,

You make a great, alluding point about what makes Celtic players different than the rest.  They hang around if they make those around them better.  On to a B2B!!

db

P.S.  Can anyone find/verify what, say, $100 would get you if the Celtics win the next two in a row (for a 3-peat) or next 3 in a row (for a 4-peat).  Initially I heard it was in the neighborhood of 2,000:1 but that sounds about right.  That's quite a lot of dough!

Dboss interesting, I’ve never looked at those ratings, just curious do you know what D Whites offensive and defensive ratings were his last 2 years with Spurs? Also I would think those stats are influenced by who else you are playing with? I know the +/- has been debunked by many.

Cowens

I do not look at the +,- numbers.  They only tell you how many points/scored and points/surrendered happened when a player is on the court with 4 other guys.  They do not isolate a player's individual impact.

Walker played 4 years with the Spurs.  Def/Off/Net ratings are as follows

1st  87.4/111.7/-24.3
2nd 109/109.4/-0.1
3rd  109.4/115.7/-6.3
4th  108.5/111.5/-3.0

His Net rating was negative during all 4 years

D White (last 3 years including 36 games with the Spurs before the trade to Boston)

111.9/107.1/+4.8
110.1/109.2/+1
113.9/108.8/+5.1

If you drill down on why Walker has been in the minus category you have to first forget about his athleticism and think about his assists for example, and Hockey assists, spacing, screening and willingness to move the ball for example.  Defensively maybe he is poor at rotating or reading the offense in front of him.

If you are a minus on the court there is something wrong with your game.  D White played 3 years with him.  Walker has been on the negative side of the equation in all 6 years in the league while on 3 different teams.

Thanks dboss

Well now I have an idea what all those official looking people sitting in those great seats on the sidelines are tabulating….everything

dboss wrote:Cowens

I do not look at the +,- numbers.  They only tell you how many points/scored and points/surrendered happened when a player is on the court with 4 other guys.  They do not isolate a player's individual impact.

Walker played 4 years with the Spurs.  Def/Off/Net ratings are as follows

1st  87.4/111.7/-24.3
2nd 109/109.4/-0.1
3rd  109.4/115.7/-6.3
4th  108.5/111.5/-3.0

His Net rating was negative during all 4 years

D White (last 3 years including 36 games with the Spurs before the trade to Boston)

111.9/107.1/+4.8
110.1/109.2/+1
113.9/108.8/+5.1

If you drill down on why Walker has been in the minus category you have to first forget about his athleticism and think about his assists for example, and Hockey assists, spacing, screening and willingness to move the ball for example.  Defensively maybe he is poor at rotating or reading the offense in front of him.

If you are a minus on the court there is something wrong with your game.  D White played 3 years with him.  Walker has been on the negative side of the equation in all 6 years in the league while on 3 different teams.

Dboss

Excellent point, thx.

All we can hope is his defense will improve enough that CJ thinks he adds value.

cowens/oldschool wrote:Well now I have an idea what all those official looking people sitting in those great seats on the sidelines are tabulating….everything

The bean counters are hard at work.

The Celtics are a team from top to bottom that embrace analytics and they develop players accordingly.  They are a smart team.  

I truly believe that Brad chose CJ to coach because they are kindred spirits when it come to basketball analytics.  We gotta ride this wave!  

By the way, did you notice my updated avatar?  My granddaughter is wearing a 2024 Celtics Championship T-shirt.  Got it for her when I was in Boston.  It is never too soon to become a Celtics fan

Celtics17 wrote:

dboss wrote:Cowens

I do not look at the +,- numbers.  They only tell you how many points/scored and points/surrendered happened when a player is on the court with 4 other guys.  They do not isolate a player's individual impact.

Walker played 4 years with the Spurs.  Def/Off/Net ratings are as follows

1st  87.4/111.7/-24.3
2nd 109/109.4/-0.1
3rd  109.4/115.7/-6.3
4th  108.5/111.5/-3.0

His Net rating was negative during all 4 years

D White (last 3 years including 36 games with the Spurs before the trade to Boston)

111.9/107.1/+4.8
110.1/109.2/+1
113.9/108.8/+5.1

If you drill down on why Walker has been in the minus category you have to first forget about his athleticism and think about his assists for example, and Hockey assists, spacing, screening and willingness to move the ball for example.  Defensively maybe he is poor at rotating or reading the offense in front of him.

If you are a minus on the court there is something wrong with your game.  D White played 3 years with him.  Walker has been on the negative side of the equation in all 6 years in the league while on 3 different teams.

Dboss

Excellent point, thx.

All we can hope is his defense will improve enough that CJ thinks he adds value.

Celtics17

His training camp spot may be valuable to increase the level of competition among our young guys. Most of good defense is about hard work and energy. Smarts can temper the lack of great athleticism. It seems that his defense is better than his offense (His offensive rating is the reason for his negative net rating)

Start her young DBoss. She will love the Celtics forever just like you!!!!
She is adorable

Great avitar dboss, you are blessed and hope they are future Celtic fans!!

There is no doubt that she will be a Celtics fan. She is just 3 years old and is already pretty athletic. The Dr has estimated that she is going to be between 5' 9" and 5' 11' She wants to shoot on my hoop but I will need to lower it a bit..lol

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5749464/2024/09/09/celtics-lonnie-walker-signing-training-camp/?source=freedailyemail&campaign=601983&userId=13921316



What can Lonnie Walker bring to Celtics after signing training camp deal?




NEW YORK, NEW YORK - FEBRUARY 13: Lonnie Walker IV #8 of the Brooklyn Nets dribbles against Payton Pritchard #11 of the Boston Celtics during the first half at Barclays Center on February 13, 2024 in the Brooklyn borough of New York City. NOTE TO USER: User expressly acknowledges and agrees that, by downloading and or using this photograph, User is consenting to the terms and conditions of the Getty Images License Agreement. (Photo by Sarah Stier/Getty Images)


By Jared Weiss



Just when it looked like things were quiet in Boston, the Celtics made another move to end the summer. Deals get done late in the offseason, though it’s usually with relatively unknown players getting their shot to make an NBA roster.

But the Celtics finished August by signing Lonnie Walker IV to an Exhibit 10 training camp deal, a notable name for this kind of move.

Soon, social media was full of graphics lumping Walker into the Celtics’ rotation. Fans responded by expressing shock that Brad Stevens could nab such a familiar name to a non-guaranteed deal. But the reality is the NBA moves fast and while Walker has something to offer, he’s battling more than just his teammates for a roster spot.

The Exhibit 10 contract for Walker reflects the impact of the new luxury-tax regime. Walker is entering his seventh season and hasn’t grown enough as a playmaker to lock down a rotation spot on a playoff team. The 25-year-old just hit the tipping point of his career where teams are prioritizing younger players with more upside at the end of the bench.

There are plenty of players in the draft who have to make way for the next generation to claim roster spots. It’s the same reason Oshae Brissett is still looking for a new team, even if he showed last year that he is worthy of a roster spot somewhere in this league.

But Walker is battling the luxury tax more than anything heading into training camp. Boston is deep enough into the tax that just signing a player to the full-season minimum is a luxury. Walker signed an Exhibit 10 contract, a non-guaranteed training camp deal that provides him a bonus of up to about $78,000 if he is waived and then signs a G League contract with the Maine Celtics.

The Celtics most likely want to keep that spot open and then eventually add a player later in the season. Unless Walker can prove to be such a dangerous shooter that they can’t live without him. Boston has had good health with its perimeter players the past few years, so it’s mostly prioritized veteran depth at the center position. If the Celtics pick up injuries for their non-centers, there are plenty of players they can sign short term to address that. But there are few free agents available during the year who can catch-and-shoot as well as Walker.

Walker’s touch fell off late in the season, but he was shooting 42.7 percent on 4.9 3-point attempts a night with the Brooklyn Nets heading into March. There is one particular look he can knockdown consistently, the semi-open spot-up going to his left. He likes to twist his hips around and jumps fairly high, so hopping to his left on the catch gives him the balance he needs to knock the shot down.

This highlight tape from his memorable playoff performance with the Los Angeles Lakers in 2023 shows most of the package in his game.




Walker can handle just enough to go left over screens and can hit a 20-foot pull-up jumper off the catch, though that shot is not very consistent. The thing he does well is driving hard into space, where he gets high in the air and hits an up-and-under layup over the league’s tallest centers.

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2024/09/06002132/lonnie-drives.mp4?_=1


There isn’t a lot of variety in his drives and he doesn’t pass that much once he hits the paint, but he is acrobatic enough to get away with it. He has sufficient offensive ability to play in the NBA. The question is whether he can improve his defensive awareness.

On the ball, he can stay in front of players but doesn’t show enough balance to handle physicality well. But as a bench wing, he typically gets the weakside help role and that’s where he most often gets lost. When he’s responsible for helping off a pair of shooters, he’ll often turn his back to his man and get a bit lost when he tries to recover.

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2024/09/06002152/walker-off-ball-D.mp4?_=2


Walker’s camp invite may have something to do with Jordan Walsh’s summer league performance, where the second-year wing looked like he needed another year in Maine before being ready to see the floor. While Walsh projects to be a capable defender in the future once he catches up to NBA speed, Walker can at least defend without fouling now and provide floor spacing on offense.

This is also insurance against rookie Baylor Scheierman struggling to find a rhythm shooting the ball early on, in case the Celtics need someone at the end of the bench who they know can get his shot off. Jaden Springer is the other wing deep in their reserves, but he fills more of an on-ball role on both ends and is a far superior defender to everyone else fighting for playing time.

Considering how important developing bench players is for a second-apron team, Boston should prioritize Scheierman’s growth. But Walker at least is a known commodity at this point who can rip the net and finish over NBA bigs. In all likelihood, he will go to Maine and fight to earn a call-up from the Celtics or some other team at some point in the season.

Now that he is dipping his toes down into the G League, he’ll face the reality that his time in the league may end if he can’t improve his defense. If any franchise is going to help him turn that around, it’s the Celtics.


Bob


.

When we're still talking about Lonnie Walker in a topic started August 28, you know the fans here are anxious for camp to start.

Late summer has surely been a slow NBA and Celtics news period.

NYCelt,

So true.  October 22nd can't get here soon enough!  Will they do the Banner hanging at the game beginning or halftime? I would guess they wouldn't do it at the end of the home  opener as there is always the risk of losing that game and that would suck!!  Nothing would make the media happier.  

db

what I would give for a few of those inches in height Dboss. I am 4'11" and shrinking!!!!!!!!!

RosalieTCeltics wrote:what I would give for a few of those inches in height Dboss.  I am 4'11"  and shrinking!!!!!!!!!

We are all shrinking! but our bills keep growing. You know my mom was 4' 11" but she had a big heart as you do.

Regarding the Lonnie thread it could continue to perpetuity. I am ready to wager that we will definitely have another post or two.

This downtime leaves me speechless so how bout them Patriots? What a great win on Sunday. At some point rookie QB Drake Maye will run the offense but until then we may be seeing a 2003 version of the Patriots. Big offensive line, engaged special teams play including a strong kicking game, controlling the game by controlling the clock (run the ball) and a bend but don't break defense. I have them winning 6 games this year because they have the toughest SOS but who knows. Maybe they improved sooner than expected.

i have always been a Mayo fan, way back. Glad he got his first win, but this is still going to be a long season. I do believe they may surprise some teams and come up with wins when otherwise predicted!

You are right this down time leads to silly talk. So here is one for you, what would be the chances that the Celtics tried to get Rob Williams back here? His next two years are relatively cheap, would love for him to be on our bench, but, then again the health issue will rear its ugly head. This is what I mean about silly talk

dboss wrote:

RosalieTCeltics wrote:what I would give for a few of those inches in height Dboss.  I am 4'11"  and shrinking!!!!!!!!!

We are all shrinking! but our bills keep growing.  You know my mom was 4' 11"  but she had a big heart as you do.

Regarding the Lonnie thread it could continue to perpetuity.  I am ready to wager that we will definitely have another post or two.

This downtime leaves me speechless so how bout them Patriots?  What a great win on Sunday.  At some point rookie QB Drake Maye will run the offense but until then we may be seeing a 2003 version of the Patriots.  Big offensive line, engaged special teams play including a strong kicking game, controlling the game by controlling the clock (run the ball) and a bend but don't break defense.  I have them winning 6 games this year because they have the toughest SOS but who knows.  Maybe they improved sooner than expected.

Go Bills!

(Sorry, Western New Yorker... Couldn't resist.)

gyso wrote:

NYCelt wrote:

dboss wrote:

RosalieTCeltics wrote:what I would give for a few of those inches in height Dboss.  I am 4'11"  and shrinking!!!!!!!!!

We are all shrinking! but our bills keep growing.  You know my mom was 4' 11"  but she had a big heart as you do.

Regarding the Lonnie thread it could continue to perpetuity.  I am ready to wager that we will definitely have another post or two.

This downtime leaves me speechless so how bout them Patriots?  What a great win on Sunday.  At some point rookie QB Drake Maye will run the offense but until then we may be seeing a 2003 version of the Patriots.  Big offensive line, engaged special teams play including a strong kicking game, controlling the game by controlling the clock (run the ball) and a bend but don't break defense.  I have them winning 6 games this year because they have the toughest SOS but who knows.  Maybe they improved sooner than expected.

Go Bills!

(Sorry, Western New Yorker... Couldn't resist.)

How 'bout them Panthers!!!  Not my team, but the word around heah is, "Worst team in the NFL."

Panthers and Hornets?  Saddest fans on the planet?

Positive thought for the day; It can only get better.

And the weather is moderate and pretty nice compared with most of the country...

So you can go to a football game in something nicer than 28 degrees and windy.