Orlando trades...........

It's entire roster for a bag of peanuts, a loaf of bread, and a quart of milk.
Wonder if they also aquire some amo?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AhgIZiiH96aWOQAj_uXZeg68vLYF?slug=aw-arenastradetalks121810

beat

wow

weird

lateral moves mostly, seems desparate

jeb wrote:wow

weird

lateral moves mostly, seems desparate

Jeb

Certainly appears a bit of a panic button decision. Think they regret losing Turk and wanted him back. Not sure how Arenas fits in.

Will be interesting to see how it all pans out!

off topic

Probably about as big a mistake as I made in a long time today when I went shopping with the wife and kids. As we waited in one stor for her I asked Marcus to text her to see if she would be back in time for his graduation ( he's in 10th grade)
She was NOT impressed.

beat

So, they get rid of Vince Carter, a ME-baller who chokes in the clutch for Jason Richardson, a somewhat younger ME-baller who chokes in the clutch.

They get rid of Rashard Lewis and get Turkoglu, a player they could have kept all along and then would have had both of them.

Gilbert Arenas goes to Orlando where he and JRich can fight over who gets the ball from Nelson. Arenas and JRich played together in GSW, but now there's a little matter of a 3rd player wanting time.

Designated Pierce-stopper Michael Pietrus goes to Phoenix where he assumes the role of designated Kobe-stopper. I'll take that. Gortat, one of the best backup centers in the NBA heads west too. That works for us too, although I'll be damned if I see who spells Howard now. Rookie Daniel Orton, who hasn't played one single minute yet this season?

Bottom line, Orlando gives up a first round draft pick next year, an athletic 2, a 5, a 3pt shooting 4 and a physical defender and 3pt shooting 3 and gets an athletic 2, a 3 they let go because they didn't want to pay him the money he ended up getting anyway and a 1 1/2 (Arenas is really a 2 that can play one). Huh?

Phoenix gets a very dependable and fundamentally sound backup center and two guys who will run with Nash as well as a draft pick. I see JRich as a younger VC, which means that Phoenix got Gortat and Pietrus and what will probably end up being a mid-1st round draft pick for Turk. If I'm not missing something, Phoenix made out like a bandit.

Washington gives up Arenas, which not only puts an end to a PR nightmare but also gets more playing time for $9M Hinrich, and gets Lewis which will help fill the short term hole created by Blatche's sore knee.

Team chemistry for the Magic just disappeared like abracadabra. I'd say the same thing too for the Suns except for one thing, Steve Nash. If players run, he'll get them the ball wherever they run to. I have MUCH less faith in Jameer Nelson to be able to do the same.

Pretty unusual for two teams with decent records (Phoenix is 12-13, Orlando 16-9) to toss their deck of cards up in the air a quarter of the way into a season. When you see stuff like this, it's usually teams that are struggling badly (like Washington) or are positioning themselves salary-wise for free agency or that have taken a serious season or career ending injury to a key player and they need to scramble. Not this time, though.

IMO, the east just became a two-team conference.

bob

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IMO, the east just became a two-team conference.

bob

The C's and the Knicks?

beat

Just BS ing thanks for the quick analysis.

Wow

I am flabergasted!

The Orlando Magic just went from being one of the top 4 or 5 teams in the NBA to a team with a collection of selfish ball players, no Power forward and no BU center. Are you freakin kidding me...

Any team that would relieve Washington of the albatross $80 million salary for Gibert 'less than zero' Areneas has gotta be out their rabbit ass minds.

Gortat is arguabbly one of the best BU centers in the NBA and could easily start for a lot opf teams.

Lewis has struggled shooting the ball this year but now they are down to brandon bass at the PF spot with no reliable BU.

And on top of all that they give up on pietrus, a true PP pain in the butt.

The only one who should have been leaving ntown is Van Gundy.

dboss

not sure why but my gut is saying these deals arent the last for orlando, and that this is somehow going to payoff for orlando... just a gut feeling.

If it stands like this it feels like Orlando traded some players in a "circle" and lost Pietrus and Gortat.

Hi,
Beat, I'm sorry, pal, but you are nuts.
Now back to Magic. I'm not sure what they're up to. Maybe getting ready for D12's free agency?
On the one hand it's good to have less competition, on the other hand Magic could've got Heat in the playoffs and make Celtics life easier.
BTW, are we close to playoffs, yet?

AK

sinus007 wrote:Hi,
Beat, I'm sorry, pal, but you are nuts.
Now back to Magic. I'm not sure what they're up to. Maybe getting ready for D12's free agency?
On the one hand it's good to have less competition, on the other hand Magic could've got Heat in the playoffs and make Celtics life easier.
BTW, are we close to playoffs, yet?

AK

Thats fine

This trade is NUTS too

beat

I know its early but Washington is up on miami 25-19 after 1 quarter

beat wrote:I know its early but Washington is up on miami 25-19 after 1 quarter

No John Wall tonight. Good luck Wizards. They'll lose by at least 15.

steve

probably will but Hinrich is not a bad replacement. Wash still up 2 near the 1/2 way point of the third.

beat

Matty wrote:not sure why but my gut is saying these deals arent the last for orlando, and that this is somehow going to payoff for orlando... just a gut feeling.

Arenas gets flipped for Carmelo, he's the real target.

They both make just over 17mil, so the salaries match.

RealGM:
Trade ID #5773379

Hey Gyso

I dont think melo will play in orlando...it aint shiny enough.

I agree with Bob. Phoenix made out on this deal and got allot better, IMO. Only time will tell, but I would not be worried at all about Orlando now. I think that they should start printing finals tickets now in Boston. They probably would if they only knew who would be coming out of the West. I for one don't have any idea yet who is coming out of the West. Too many question marks for the Lakers to repeat and San Antonio is looking tough.

MG.

Beat,
I should've pointed that "nuts" comment was in re you going shopping with your wife AND kids.

AK

dboss wrote: Are you freakin kidding me...

Any team that would relieve Washington of the albatross $80 million salary for Gibert 'less than zero' Areneas has gotta be out their rabbit ass minds.

dboss

Unbelievable.

Unless gyso and Matty are on to something, and they just could be, I've got to go with the dboss quote above.

Based on matchups, I've been more concerned about Orlando than Miami; until now.

Not a terrible move for Phoenix.

Hmm, guess I should check my meds, because my initial thought was that all this a a big plus for Orlando. No one here thinks so?

Here's my twisted logic.

They never should've let Hedo go, and now he's back -- plus for Orlando.

They never should've gotten Vinsanity, and now he's gone -- plus for Orlando.

Lewis has been declining the past three years and completely disappears sometimes, and now he's gone -- plus for Orlando.

They lose Gortat, who was a very good backup center -- minus for Orlando.

They lose Pietrus, who was a very good bench player at both ends -- minus for Orlando.

They get Arenas, who has a history of going rogue, but is also very talented -- we'll have to wait and see, but I think this could be a significant plus for Orlando (room for a difference of opinion there, I know).

They get Richardson, also known as a somewhat selfish guy, but he has been a solid player at Phoenix and can be another dangerous weapon -- wait and see, but I think this is also a plus.

The hole at backup center is huge. As others have theorized, the Magic may not be done dealing yet, and if so, this figures to be no. 1 on the list.

Another thing that makes me think this is good for Orlando -- they acquired three starters (Hedo, Arenas, and Richardson) for two (Carter and Lewis), and even if they deal one of those for a backup center, any two of the three are better than Carter and Lewis, in my view. I think Carter and Lewis are the major reasons why Orlando has regressed the past two years. And they get rid of both of them? In my mind, there's no way this isn't a good thing for Orlando.

What does this do for the Magic vs. the Celtics? Again, they get rid of the two guys who disappeared in the playoff series against the Celtics last May. The loss of Gortat is big considering the Magic need to counter the Celtics' size, but assuming they do another deal for a backup 5 and with the increased presence of Brandon Bass this year, replacing Carter and Lewis makes the Magic potentially much better. (Of course, the Celtics are better too, but I'm just sayin'.)

Of course it's a risk, and there are no guarantees that the new guys will fit in, but Orlando hasn't played well this year and felt desperate enough to seize this opportunity. It will take time before we know the results, and they're probably not done yet, but I see this as a good move by Orlando. Am I nuts? (About the trade, folks, about the trade.)

Outside

Outside,

Thanks for the qualifier, son of General Anthony Clement McAuliffe.

The loss and regain of Hedo seems like an attempt to 'get back' to where they were a couple of years ago, in the finals and all. That would be similar to Danny trying to get Posey back to recapture the magic of 07-08. Both had offers that were deemed too expensive for the home team and left for greener pastures. (BTW, I think both ended up regreting their decisions.)

I don't believe they are done yet either. If not Carmelo, than perhaps a big that can be a backup for Howard. They will not get through the early rounds in the playoffs without one.

Outside wrote:Hmm, guess I should check my meds, because my initial thought was that all this a a big plus for Orlando. No one here thinks so?

Here's my twisted logic.

They never should've let Hedo go, and now he's back -- plus for Orlando.

They never should've gotten Vinsanity, and now he's gone -- plus for Orlando.

Lewis has been declining the past three years and completely disappears sometimes, and now he's gone -- plus for Orlando.

They lose Gortat, who was a very good backup center -- minus for Orlando.

They lose Pietrus, who was a very good bench player at both ends -- minus for Orlando.

They get Arenas, who has a history of going rogue, but is also very talented -- we'll have to wait and see, but I think this could be a significant plus for Orlando (room for a difference of opinion there, I know).

They get Richardson, also known as a somewhat selfish guy, but he has been a solid player at Phoenix and can be another dangerous weapon -- wait and see, but I think this is also a plus.

The hole at backup center is huge. As others have theorized, the Magic may not be done dealing yet, and if so, this figures to be no. 1 on the list.

Another thing that makes me think this is good for Orlando -- they acquired three starters (Hedo, Arenas, and Richardson) for two (Carter and Lewis), and even if they deal one of those for a backup center, any two of the three are better than Carter and Lewis, in my view. I think Carter and Lewis are the major reasons why Orlando has regressed the past two years. And they get rid of both of them? In my mind, there's no way this isn't a good thing for Orlando.

What does this do for the Magic vs. the Celtics? Again, they get rid of the two guys who disappeared in the playoff series against the Celtics last May. The loss of Gortat is big considering the Magic need to counter the Celtics' size, but assuming they do another deal for a backup 5 and with the increased presence of Brandon Bass this year, replacing Carter and Lewis makes the Magic potentially much better. (Of course, the Celtics are better too, but I'm just sayin'.)

Of course it's a risk, and there are no guarantees that the new guys will fit in, but Orlando hasn't played well this year and felt desperate enough to seize this opportunity. It will take time before we know the results, and they're probably not done yet, but I see this as a good move by Orlando. Am I nuts? (About the trade, folks, about the trade.)

Outside

outside,

You take a different approach to this than I did and, I have to say, there's some merit to it.

VC and Lewis are not good for Orlando, so ridding themselves of them should be viewed as a positive.

One thing that you wrote that I disagree with, at least with your conclusion, is that it's a good thing Orlando got 3 starters for 2. That's a chemistry killer, even though Arenas is now saying he's ok with coming off the bench (A $17M player coming off the bench?). Granted, if they trade one for a backup center that issue is resolved, but what backup center is worth a starter, both talent-wise and money-wise? There would almost HAVE to be a minimum of one or more players in that deal for it to work, perhaps one of them a 3 to replace Pietrus. If Arenas is the goner, then it'd probably have to be more than 2 players coming since he makes $17M. Name one team that has a surplus of backup centers and outside shooting wings that might fit the bill.

The only one that jumps out at me are the Celtics. If we were willing to give up JON and Wafer that would work for Jameer Nelson, but not Arenas. That'd let Nate play 2 (which is really where he's more comfortable), let Q play 3 exclusively (good longterm for Pierce's rest). The downside of that, for us, is that our 5 position would then be 38-year old Shaq (who only plays low 20's in minutes), injured Erden (who also doesn't play a ton of minutes) and an unready Perk (and who knows how much will be back this year with him?). A precarious movement for us just to get another point guard when we have already a young Rondo and Nate/West as backups and why would we want to bail Orlando out? A Dwight Howard having to do more during the season means a Dwight Howard able to do less in the playoffs.

Still a mystery to me.

bob

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gyso wrote:

Matty wrote:not sure why but my gut is saying these deals arent the last for orlando, and that this is somehow going to payoff for orlando... just a gut feeling.

Arenas gets flipped for Carmelo, he's the real target.

They both make just over 17mil, so the salaries match.

RealGM:
Trade ID #5773379

gyso,

You may be onto something here. Billups is 34 and Ty Lawson is inconsistent, so getting Arenas would make sense and he'd be able to play the minutes he probably should because of Billups' injury (partially torn ligament in his shooting wrist). That could be a season-ender for Billups, so Denver needs help badly at the 1. Melo and Turk in the frontcourt? Still no help for Howard but offense sure wouldn't be a problem and you sure as hell would put asses in the seats in Orlando (not referring to Magic fans in particular, just figuratively speaking).

NJ is doing everything except auctioning off Atlantic City in their effort to get Melo, but does the injury to Billups change the game for the Nuggets? Are they thinking this team for this year and next, or are they looking longterm with all those draft picks NJ is going to be throwing at them? In 3-4 years those picks might make for a nice team and the Lakers and Spurs will be rebuilding. A few key veterans and those 5 first rounders from the Nets (one or more of which could be used to get a veteran) could produce a Denver-OKC rivalry between 2013-2017.

This is getting crazy, to me. The reason why it's so crazy is because the Orlando deal doesn't make sense, standing as-is, to me.

bob

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Hi,
Interesting article from AWoj.
For whatever reason he didn't even mention that Magic lost Gortat and how they gonna deal with this problem.

AK

Well there are certainly some very interesting ideas presented here although I am not sure any of us knows exactly why these moves were made. There is more going on than meets the eye.

I watched the Orlando game last night and they did an interview with GM Otis Smith. He was not convincing that this was a deal he felt comfortable with.

Let's take a closer look.

Firstly the reason why the Magic can only go so far has little to do with having hedo or not, or having carter or Lewis on the team or not having them.

The Magic cannot win because Van Gundy is a average coach and their startegy of shooting 3 pointrs cannot succeed in a grind em out playoff series against a team like Boston or LA.

I think that fact has alreay been established.

So let take a look at the pawns in the chess match.

Lewis is basically a small foward who was expected to play like a power forward. His offensive game has been declining the last few years and if he is not making shots it simply does not balance out his other deficiencies as a PF. Moving him makes sense but for Gilber Arenas???

Arenas has been avraging 17.3 PPG on a team leading 15.7 shots per game. The guy has no clue. He is shooting a dreadful .394% from the field. Whether he comes off the bench or starts his addition is like shooting a torpedo into a sinking ship..

The notion that there is another shoe to fall and it could be a move to trade him to the Nuggets for Melo does not seem realistic to me. The Nuggets may be vulnberable with the pending loss of Carmelo but they are not stupid. Arenas is comiung off knee problems, shoots the ball too much, cannot defend his position and has salary guarantees of $17.7, $19.3 $20.8 and $22.3 million dollars through the 20113-14 season.

The Nuggets are looking for draft picks not Gilbert Arenas...

Hedo had his best year one year before he became a free agent. when he averaged 19.5 PPG, 5.3 rebounds and 5.3 assists. His last year in Orlando he was 16.8, 4.7 and 4.1. The one year stint in Toronto showed a continbued decline to 11.3 PPG and this year he is down to 9.5 PPG. I do not see how him coming back makes the Magic any better. He was not worth the money he signed for 2 years ago and he is not worth the money today and he is another guy that cannot defend his position. I guess Van Gundy has been having way too many wet dreams over him.

Vince Carter is a player that so many people love to criticize. he was an unbelievable gifted athlete. He has fought through many injuries and was shooting a career high .470 % from the field while averaging 15.1 PPG on only 12 shot attempts. Talent wise this is pretty much a wash in gettinbg Jason Richardson. This is JR's last contract year and the Magic had a team option for Vince next year. in other words either one of them could be gone. I do not see how this helps the Magic.

Pietrus, a 1st round pick and $3,000,000 in cash was also part of the deal with the Suns. Next to Howard, Pietrus was the only player on the Magic that could defend his position. He has been in the dog house with van Gundy this year.

Lastly we have Gortat a physical center that provided needed relief for Howard. And the thow in Earl (who is he) clark.

If Orlando made this moves to somehow pry carmelo away from Denver, they have too few chips to bargain with and one less 1st round pick.

I think this trade happened because of coach Van Gundy. There have been several times in the past few years where he almost lost this team. This year I think some players stopped listening to him because it may be apparent to them that his formula is not one that you can ever win with.

Shaq said "He panics" . If there was ever a panic attack Van Gundy had one and Otis Smith left his nuts on the table.

dboss

Not one good defender coming back to ORL in the deal.....which is funny for a coach that prides himself on defense, in a conference that you HAVE to play defense to win.

Magic might win some games 120 to 119 - but they are not going to have the horses to dig deep in the grind it out playoffs.