POST GAME LAC

Sorry I am not able to give you any insight as to the first half as I had cable trouble and only was able to see some summer league game being played in LA.

Well a Win is Win is Win and should help to heal wounds ........ create some bonding.......and move on!

Great...I mean great great game by West on both ends of the floor.......Paul.....well Paul is Paul a soon to be Celtic legend!

Just one comment....I don't know who is tsaying he can play the 4 spot...has no body for that position.

Going to take time...and I mean time for this team to jell to where we need to be. We need another wide body at 5, sorry but even with Shaq we need! N. Krstic will be gone by year end.

Celtic coaching will teach Green Celtic basketball and defense...hell if they can teach VWafer they can teach anyone!

Let's see what Danny brings by Tuesday besides Spring Crocus'!

112288

PS Got to tell you I had tears in my eyes at the beginning of the broadcast when they showed Perk!

is it just me or did anyone notice Baby getting posted on really easily?

Cow

They were getting real deep in the paint on him. It was not just you. It happened. They are pretty damn long up front and Kaman is tough.

From an observational point of view:

• More and more, the Celtics continue to exemplify what I call the "Andre Agassi Syndrome": Use the early part of the match to figure out the opponent, retool your strategy accordingly, and beat the hell out of him as the match progresses. I would definitely tout the Celtics coaching staff as the best in the league at making halftime adjustments. This is an area that is not given sufficient due by those who moan about the possible absence of this or that player.

• I can definitely see a five of Kristic, Davis, Green, Wafer and Delonte becoming a transition juggernaut over time. As it was, the Celts had 22 fast break points tonight despite being really out of synch (especially the bench) for most of the first half. Both the starters and the bench participated in the transition game, although I have no way of knowing whether it was skewed more one way or the other. I just see those five guys becoming a great energy group.

• When new players are being integrated into the rotation, emphasizing an up-tempo offense is a great way to avoid placing too much pressure on halfcourt basketball, in which synchronization is at a premium. The Celts didn't do this in the first half (and suffered in terms of turnovers as aresult), but they did do it in the second half. Holding their own on the boards helped in this effort.

From a statistical perspective:

• It was wonderful to see the Celtics shoot 85.4% from the free throw line. It "helped" that Rondo did not shoot any freebies . Frankly it was nice just not to be depressed when our center was fouled when missing a bunny. In such instances, Kristic either scored or was reasonably reliable from the line. I'm going to reduce my weekly order from my Tums dealer.

• For a change, the Celtics outrebounded the opponent at both ends: 14 to 10 on the offensive boards and 29 to 26 on the defensive boards. The six offensive rebounds by Kristic appeared to be no fluke. He's energetic. He positions himself very well. And he rebounds with two hands and doesn't bobble the ball when he grabs it. He also has a good upfake and is crafty in the offensive end.

• The Celtics assisted on 50% of their made field goals in the first half and 83% of their made field goals in the second half. Rondo had one assist every three minutes, and Delonte had one assist every four minutes. Teams are going to find it progressively more difficult to deal with a two-headed monster at PG. And I'm sure everyone noticed that Delonte played the bulk of the minutes at PG down the stretch. I wouldn't expect that to be the norm. Doc mentioned that Rondo was obviously tired, so Delonte got more of a run. What a luxury to have.

• The Celtics turned the ball over three times as much as the Clips in the first half. The Clips turned the ball over twice as much as the Celts in the second half. In the second half, the Celtics defense was a torrent of deflections, playing in the Clips' shorts, and help on the big guys.

• The Celtics starters averaged a +/- score of +13. The Celtics bench (and this includes Glen Davis, who played some with the starters) averaged -6. There's little question where the most work needs to be done in developing chemistry.

• The Celtics had almost as many field goal attempts as the Clips. I'm habituated to seeing opponents take at least 20 more shots than the Celtics, which puts pressure on the Celtics to make a high percentage of their shots. Tonight, they only shot 40% but got away with it because of their shot volume (from both the field and the foul line). Being aggressive (which they were in the second half) was really major. The superlative offensive rebounding also played a large role in an inflated shot attempt stat.

The New Guys:

• I certainly don't expect six offensive rebounds out of Kristic night in and night out. However, watching him tonight strengthened my believe that (reversing the conventional wisdom) the best defense can sometimes be a good offense. One key to defense (especially transition defense) is to make the opponent keep taking the ball out of the basket. Even though the Celtics shot a low percentage tonight, they mitigated that with their offensive rebounding. It was a pleasure to see a Celtics center calmly, and with great reassurance, drop in a midrange jumper. It's an entirely new dimension for this team. Sure, Kristic got burned a few times by Clips' bigs. Even Bill Russell seldom pitched a shutout. However, as I've been saying repeatedly over the past couple of days, adjustments in the system (or even in defensive assignments) can often compensate when someone's overmatched. After the game, Heinsohn was commenting on how the Celts adjusted in the second half, with KG coming up under Griffin, spreading out, and preventing Griffin from driving. And the Celtics also sent occasional help on Griffin. That's called adjusting, folks, and there are numerous adjustments available to deal with various problems. It takes a savvy coach to determine what adjustments are warranted, and there's no problem in the savvy coach department.

• I don't think Green displayed more than a fraction of his eventual value to this team. But he showed me enough to reassure me that he should be a mainstay for years. He can hit the jumper (he wisely avoided forcing threes), fill lanes, post up. I want to watch him some more on the defensive end. But, in terms solely of body type (not necessarily style of play or caliber of skills), he could actually be the closest thing the Celtics have had to Len Bias. I feel I have a better read on Kristic than Green at this juncture, but I'm really happy with both of them.

It's only one game against a mediocre opponent. However, it was an interesting test against a team with some pretty good bigs and a propensity to run. So far, so good in a new era, and it should only get better. There are still many regular season games left in which to hone their togetherness. And, for Danny, miles to go before he sleeps (with apologies to Robert Frost).

Sam

It seems as though Green hasn't developed any trademark plays for himself, like Ray's outside shot, KG's 20 footer, or Paul driving and getting fouled. He still has to find himself, what he does best, what he's most comfortable with, how he can use his skills to make the most impact.

In college, from what I remember, it seemed as though he wasn't assertive enough. In the pros, he was in Durant's shadow, a complementary player trying to figure out what the team needed. He's multi-skilled, has tremendous speed and quickness, excellent fundamentals, but no real identity on the court.

He's raw material in Doc and Danny's hands. Can't wait to see where they take him.

spike

Good observation on Greens developing game,haven't seen enough Thunder games to know what to expect from him,but remember he does have a perimeter game.Shocked Thunder had him as a 4,he doesn't look like a 4 to me,his body type is a prototype tall athletic 3,similar to Danny Granger.No wonder Barkley used to say Thunder are too small.I do like what I see and he will be great for Paul and Ray,letting Paul not have to over expand his minutes.A fresher Paul is gonna be a beautiful thing to watch in the stretch run.

Sam

I thought Baby had a bad game,he put in the effort,but relying on him for 30 minutes as they did last night is not the way to go IMHO.If we have no Shaq and JON,would hate to have to go to war with just these bigs,even though Kristic looked good,which is why I'm still afraid of this trade.Was alot of fun watching KG matched up with Blake Griffen,thought KG's defense was his usual textbook in your grill intense,Blake did hit some difficult shots that I'll take as they weren't the shots that Clippers could rely on.

On the game on thread you said as game progressed our defense got better and tighter,thats a trait of this team in the KG era.Alot of times we have baited teams early seeing what they were gonna do,then later making adjustments as you pointed out and taking those things away,alot of fun to watch.In martial arts we call that ABD,attack by draw,you can leave a subtle opening in your stance that an experienced fighter will notice,then as you bait him,you know what they are going to do,so then in a flash you can break their balance as your striking or controlling and presto they're on their back.Ofcourse in a b-ball game its a much longer process than fighting,but the principle is the same.

Well without Perk and not knowing what were gonna get from Shaq/JON?even though the defense did enough,looked good for stretches overall,there were also stretches where we didn't look good,like in the paint against Kamen.We will still have enough overall versatility both ends to win more than we lose I hope,but the lockdown power that we had against the fully loaded BIG boys may not be there......just gonna have to rely on another way to win.Also loved seeing Delonte,hes so patient,what a difference with the rally killer Nate.

cow

Cow

There were stretches where we looked defenseless and helpless in the paint. But they were just stretches and not too long. At this juncture any win is a good one. They still looked pissed about Perk to start the game but as they played their natural ability and desire to compete took over. I also saw a couple of points where they started to realize what Green and Kristic can bring to the party that seemed to put a bounce in all their steps and some serious wind at their backs. Lets hope for more of these moments as we learn each other and steadily improve all the way up to the coaching staff.

Cow,

DW just gets it. Smooth and shoots when needed or open. Can't wait to see him back in the groove.

Jeb,

I sensed the bounce too after the hustle displayed by both newcomers. Krytic missed a pass on the break from RR and RR nodded and said OK but keep hands up big fella. Jeff Green will take more time to develop because they are gonna ask a lot of him. He's got the talent to pull it off and plays good D. I like our future.

Hoop

I'm expecting this to be a tough few weeks as we integrate the newbies and figure out what and when and how to use them best. Nevertheless, it's still better to win than lose. This was a strange type of win for us, though.

It was mentioned on the Game On thread, and also on a new thread today, about the whole "Danny as a horsetrader" pulled off an amazing trade over the course of years (Perk+Nate+Wally for Ray+Green+Krstic+draft pick). I think it's irrefutable that Danny has shown he is an exceptional GM, but I think he's getting a little too much credit here and a few considerations were left out. How could he have known that the #5 pick, that we sent to Seattle as part of the Ray deal, would turn out to be a player we would want years later? How could he know that Delonte West would have a "did I actually do that or did I just dream it" event that got him suspended by the league and cut loose and made available (not to mention not going to jail)? I'd also like to make a correction on the trade. If we're going back back years on this, you could argue he didn't give up Nate, he gave up Eddie House, JR and Bill Walker. I'm not saying this still wasn't a good deal, but it's not as good, when you replace Nate with Eddie, nor is it that simple. Danny's good, he's really good, but he's not Nostradamus. Some of this was luck and timing as well as good trading.

1. My game ball goes to one of our newbies, Nenad Krstic. Doesn't know the plays, doesn't know his teammates, doesn't matter. He showed up to work and work he did. A little overeager in the first few minutes to pick up 2 quick fouls, but his energy level was outstanding last night. As has been pointed out, he got 6 rebounds, all of them my beloved offensive. Being a newbie, I guess he didn't get the memo that says we're the worst offensive rebounding team in the league. Good thing as it turns out, but made for a strange (for us) win. We shot 41% for the game. It's hard to win when you shoot 41%. One way to offset your poor shooting is by creating additional possessions for yourself. An uptempo, running game will do that and so will offensive rebounding. He played 21 minutes in his debut and didn't turn the ball over once. This is only one game, but that right there helps me get over Perk a little more easily too. It also may buy Chris Johnson a one-way ticket back to palookaville. On the other hand, he shoots free throws much better than Gadzuric, so maybe he still has a shot.

2. We took 20 more fta than the Clips. Considering how aggressive they were and how relatively passive we were I don't understand how that happened. When was the last time we took more fts than the other guys? When have we ever taken 20 more fts than the other guys? Very strange indeed.

3. Griffin is as big and fast and smooth and strong and explosive as a jaguar. He needs to fill out parts of his game but the parts he already have are pretty damn good. His spin move, once he backs into his defender and has him right on him, with his back to the basket is as good as I've seen in a long time.

4. Did Ryan Gomes hurt himself? If not, then I don't understand why he only played 29 minutes and they put Aminu on Pierce. Pierce spent a lot of time on the line, courtesy of Aminu. I'm glad our old friend Gomes finally is getting a chance to play on a halfway decent and getting better team. He's a tweener, but he's solid and an overachiever.

5. Why does DeAndre Jordan start ahead of Chris Kaman? Kaman should have been an all-star last year and he played like one last night. Jordan got eaten alive by Krstic on the boards. Kaman did something that you don't see a lot; he shot from outside as well and he backed down Baby and shot from the paint. He was an unstoppable force. I've always liked Kaman, always thought he wasn't getting the respect he deserved just because he played for "the other team" at the Staples Center. Too bad he'll be under contract next year too. Maybe we could pick him up, as an expiring contract, at the all-star break next year?

6. Jeff Green started off rough, but smoothed out later. Krstic created his own splash by working the boards, Green didn't. The second unit looked completely discombobulated. We all know why, we lost 3 subs and replaced them with 1, so there were fewer "veteran second unit" players to stabilize the situation (as opposed to the starting unit which only did a 1-for-1 swap with 4 players providing continuity). Just as we shouldn't assume Krstic's game is what we can expect all the time, we certainly shouldn't make that assumption about Green's. He will only get better. If Krstic doesn't get a lot worse, this trade is looking good (I'm still gonna tear up, though, when I see Perk in his Thunder jersey). A second unit, with Baby at 5 and shooting 3-10, and a new 4 didn't blow the game for us. Delonte West gets more rebounds than Green. Strange.

8. Delonte West is obviously feeling much more confident. The ball is flowing out of his hands. He had 5 assists and NO turnovers. I keep reminding myself, and pinching myself, he was a starting guard on a team that had the best regular season record just last year and now he's coming off our bench. Now that is serious depth.

9. Rondo has been very sloppy for a few weeks now. He's shown very poor judgment on some of his attempted passes. Sure, he had 11 assists last night, but he also had 7 turnovers. 1.5:1 is not good for a starting point guard. Hell, that's not even all that great for a backup point guard. Doc needs have a chat with him and settle him down. Turning the ball over is just as much of a rally killer as heaving up 3pt bricks.

10. Ray Allen dropped 22 but Randy Foye was the winner of that contest last night. He showed up to play and did it from everywhere. 32 points. I forgot that he was a first round pick by the Celtics in 2006 and then traded to Portland. As long as we're swooning over Danny's horsetrading, we might as well be thorough. We gave up Randy Foye (the #7 pick in 2006), Raef and Dickau for Sebastian Telfair, Theo Ratliffe and a second round pick in 2008. I'm not sure who that pick turned out to be, but it probably was either Bill Walker or Erden. If a good trade is ending up with the best player in the whole package, who won that one? The guys who got Foye or the guys who got Erden/Walker?

A day off before playing Utah tomorrow evening means the opportunity for the newbies to spend some time with the coaches and players. We beat a very mediocre team last night ('mediocrity' is an impressive upgrade for the Clips) and we did it in a sloppy fashion, but winning ugly is still winning and I'll take every one I can get over the next couple of weeks while the newbies, these two and the next batch that's coming, are integrated.

bob

.

BobH,

Of course, Danny couldn't divine those events in advance. But that's not how advantageous deals are made. Advantageous deals are made by setting up flexibility and possibility, just as he did by getting and developing a bunch of young players so that, when opportunity arose, he could pounce on it. I do believe (and subsequent events support this) that Danny wanted to win a championship with veterans; but the only way to get good veterans was to stockpile trading chips.

He's doing that again right now by having opened up three slots, when some had been criticizing him all season long for not allowing for roster flexibility. Once again, he has paved the way for being opportunistic without knowing precisely who was bought out. He has guarantee that anyone attractive will be bought out. But those general managers who wait for guarantees seldom make good deals.

Wasn't the Raef, etc. deal part of getting rid of Walker? I believe that addition by subtraction might have actually saved the Celtics from adding another decade to their "lull" because it paved the way for the identity of the team to shift into serious contender mode. Danny's all about paving the way and acting boldly to take advantage of the possibilities he has set up.

Agreed about Kaman. Based on last night's game, I'd so much rather have Kristic than Jordan. We'll see what happens long-term.

As I said above, a win versus a loss was immaterial in proving anything conclusive about the trade. But the fact that this revamped team continued the Celtics' propensity to pull away in the second half in their very first game together was a good sign. So did the fact that they put their collective foot on the accelerator at a time when the team has often looked tired.

Sam

Cow,

Defense is important, but a balance between offense and defense is more important. There's very little that's as debilitating for a team as making stops but not being able to pull away at the offensive end. It has happened frequently to the Celtics this season. Danny has articulated that fact that such lulls were a factor in the trade.

No, the Celtics did not play a perfect game. Far from it. But I was encouraged by how the new players were eventually able to find productive niches in their first game with the team. In fact, Kristic did it from the get go. And do you know what most encouraged me? The good guys outscored the bad guys. That will always be the name of the game. I'd rather have them win by 99-92 than to play the greatest defensive game in recorded history and lose 32-31.

You've said the Celts will now need to fine a new way to win. I don't think it's as serious a need as you do. Their average score this season has been 97.8 to 91.2. Last night, they won 99 to 92. A tiny increase in both points scored and points given up, which is precisely what I've anticipated in a number of posts.

I realize there will be some people who may be on the lookout for anything that can appear to invalidate the trade. Every bucket given up by Glen Davis (who played what Walton called something like a "fabulous" game last night) will be cause for wailing. But the pure and simple fact is that the Celtics team we saw last night (which hasn't even had the benefit of one real practice together) displayed the same trait the Celtics have been demonstrating for most of the season—putting the other team away in the second half (59-45).

One thing that some people may overlook in their fetish for defense. Defense is more physically demanding than offense. The more they have to rely primarily on defense as their calling card, the more taxing it is on them—especially on Paul and Ray, who are often covering the high scorers. I liked the balance I saw in the second half last night between offense and defense. As far as I'm concerned, the first half doesn't count because it was predictably like a game of musical chairs.

Sam

Bob,

Very good and thorough analysis, as usual. (Easy for me to say since I didn't see the game.) Even if I disagreed with with half of what you wrote in your game summaries, I'd still appreciate how thorough you are, that you often take the wider view, and that you back up your opinions. I'd say your meds are working.

Since it was a Clipper game, I'll chime in on a few points.

bobheckler wrote:5. Why does DeAndre Jordan start ahead of Chris Kaman? Kaman should have been an all-star last year and he played like one last night. Jordan got eaten alive by Krstic on the boards. Kaman did something that you don't see a lot; he shot from outside as well and he backed down Baby and shot from the paint. He was an unstoppable force. I've always liked Kaman, always thought he wasn't getting the respect he deserved just because he played for "the other team" at the Staples Center. Too bad he'll be under contract next year too. Maybe we could pick him up, as an expiring contract, at the all-star break next year?

Kaman has basically been hurt all year and is coming back from a nasty ankle sprain. He originally got hurt November 9, came back ill-advisedly for two games in December, and didn't play again until a week and a half ago. The Celtic game was his 5th game back. He's still easing into it.

Kaman's absence has been a great opportunity for Jordan. As I posted on a thread 2-3 weeks ago, he's a raw talent who is very athletic and has potential to be an impact player. He's played pretty well, though tailing off recently (even before Kaman's return). He needs playing time, and this is a season when it makes sense to give it to him. He'll have good games, and he'll take his lumps some games. But playing him is an investment when you think about what he can become.

I agree with your assessment of Kaman. When healthy, he's one of the better centers around. As you point out, he has an inside-outside offensive game, he rebounds, he blocks shots, he's pretty good defensively. Unfortunately, he plays on the Clippers, so he doesn't get as much visibility as he should. He actually was an all-star last year -- he was on the West roster as an injury replacement -- but as far as I'm concerned, he should've been on regardless.

What I'd like to see the Clippers do is play around with a lineup that includes both Jordan and Kaman when Griffin sits. I'd even give a Jordan-Kaman-Griffin front line a try. Being doomed to the lottery with a third of a season to go isn't ideal, but it gives them the chance to try things like that for more extended periods than you might when you're in the playoff chase.

bobheckler wrote:9. Rondo has been very sloppy for a few weeks now. He's shown very poor judgment on some of his attempted passes. Sure, he had 11 assists last night, but he also had 7 turnovers. 1.5:1 is not good for a starting point guard. Hell, that's not even all that great for a backup point guard. Doc needs have a chat with him and settle him down. Turning the ball over is just as much of a rally killer as heaving up 3pt bricks.

I'd sure like to know what's going on there. He's been having high-turnover games sporadically all year. Here's his turnovers from the last three weeks: 7, 1, 5, 1, 1, 0, 6, 6. You look at his game log, and that's how he's been all year. He and Doc need to figure out what the difference is between those 0-1 turnover games and the 5-7 turnover games so they can fix it for the playoffs.

bobheckler wrote:10. Ray Allen dropped 22 but Randy Foye was the winner of that contest last night. He showed up to play and did it from everywhere. 32 points. I forgot that he was a first round pick by the Celtics in 2006 and then traded to Portland. As long as we're swooning over Danny's horsetrading, we might as well be thorough. We gave up Randy Foye (the #7 pick in 2006), Raef and Dickau for Sebastian Telfair, Theo Ratliffe and a second round pick in 2008. I'm not sure who that pick turned out to be, but it probably was either Bill Walker or Erden. If a good trade is ending up with the best player in the whole package, who won that one? The guys who got Foye or the guys who got Erden/Walker?

Foye has been playing pretty well the last month, averaging 17.1 points, 2.3 3-pointers, 4.1 assists, and 1.5 steals. His turnovers are bit high (2.5 during that span) and his shooting percentage isn't good (.403 the past month, .380 for the season), and he was out a lot of games with a hamstring strain. But if the Clippers are to become a playoff team, consistent play from Foye will be part of the puzzle. We'll see if he continues to develop.

As I've said before, the Clippers have potential. They've been unlucky with injuries to key players (Griffin last year, Kaman, Foye, Eric Gordon this year), and that has exposed their lack of depth. They have some young players who need to develop, but Griffin, Gordon (who I consider their best player, Griffin notwithstanding), and Kaman are a good group to build around. The biggest problem I see is their despicable owner (don't get me started on Donald Sterling) and always being in the shadow of the Lakers (they didn't have to be, but that was one of Sterling's stupid decisions). Plus, I'm not too sure about Vinnie Del Negro. But if you look at their roster, man, they've got possibilities.

Outside

sam wrote:BobH,

Of course, Danny couldn't divine those events in advance. But that's not how advantageous deals are made. Advantageous deals are made by setting up flexibility and possibility, just as he did by getting and developing a bunch of young players so that, when opportunity arose, he could pounce on it. I do believe (and subsequent events support this) that Danny wanted to win a championship with veterans; but the only way to get good veterans was to stockpile trading chips.

He's doing that again right now by having opened up three slots, when some had been criticizing him all season long for not allowing for roster flexibility. Once again, he has paved the way for being opportunistic without knowing precisely who was bought out. He has guarantee that anyone attractive will be bought out. But those general managers who wait for guarantees seldom make good deals.

Wasn't the Raef, etc. deal part of getting rid of Walker? I believe that addition by subtraction might have actually saved the Celtics from adding another decade to their "lull" because it paved the way for the identity of the team to shift into serious contender mode. Danny's all about paving the way and acting boldly to take advantage of the possibilities he has set up.

Agreed about Kaman. Based on last night's game, I'd so much rather have Kristic than Jordan. We'll see what happens long-term.

As I said above, a win versus a loss was immaterial in proving anything conclusive about the trade. But the fact that this revamped team continued the Celtics' propensity to pull away in the second half in their very first game together was a good sign. So did the fact that they put their collective foot on the accelerator at a time when the team has often looked tired.

Sam

sam,

I agree about "creating advantageous deals", all I was trying to say was that the people who are trying to combine all these deals into one big multi-year deal are missing the point. They were a bunch of smaller deals and some stockpiling of talent for trading (due to the fact we couldn't get a marquis player like KG to come here without upgrading first). Danny wasn't some mastermind who worked all this out, he's the mastermind who planned his work and then worked his plan.

Time will tell, as always.

bob

.

BobH,

On one hand, I agree. Obviously, Danny didn't make specific deals with specific additional deals in mind as a master plan.

However, I believe the only appropriate evaluation of a gm's body of trades is the net total product of all his deals—not deal by deal by deal. The outcome of each season represents a convenient checkpoint of that body of work.

You win some, you lose some. Fortunately, for the most part over the decades, the Celtics' trade wins have tended to be big ones, and their losses have tended to be little ones.

To gain big wins, it's often necessary to give up really good players. Two future hall-of-famers (revered Ed MacAuley and rookie Cliff Hagan Hagan) for untested Bill Russell. Many people thought Red was crazy for giving up Joe Barry Carroll for a journeyman named Parish. And, even when the third pick netted them McHale, many people felt he was an untested slow guy who wouldn't fit with Boston's up-tempo preference.

A maximum of vision and a minimum of emotion is important in the trade game. Vision means more than simply looking at what a team is giving up and focusing, instead, the possibilities of what you've obtained. In this case:

• They gained a serviceable center and someone who represents a brand new dimension for the Celtics now and a possible franchise building block for the future in exchange for Perk

rather than

• risking the very strong likelihood of getting nothing in exchange for Perk.

Danny has established his legacy as a Celtics executive by fashioning one of the three best trade deals or trade flurries in Celtics history in getting KG and Ray. Anything he adds to that legacy is gravy as far as I'm concerned.

Sam

All great points and posts above. Here's two more cents.

1) Loved the fact that Krstic battles and scores for the first points of the game. Also, he is huge. Looked bigger than Perk to me. makes 75% FT's? Silky smooth jumper? Offensive rebounds? What are those?!! I always gasp when we get an offensive rebound. I almost hyperventilated in this game.

2) DWest is Back and looking really good. Enough said.

3) The LAC announcers were very insightful. I couldn't tell if these guys had been doing this for a while, but they were very knowledgable and probably knew more about Boston than LAC. Problems with backing off Rondo, Celtics turning LAC into jump shooters, etc. All very good stuff. Very objective even when Clips were ahead. They weren't the run of the mill obnoxious homer ones we have to deal with all the time.

4) We got a few calls that on the replay clearly should have gone the other way. (Clips get 2 free throws instead of 3 when he was way behind the line, out of bounds off PP and we get the ball, etc.) I know we have a HUGE bank of calls we've had go against us in the past that should have been made in our favor to cash in for these egregious offenses, but that's not my point. My point is the Clippers coaching staff reaction to these calls. And that would be absolutely nothing. The one shot of Del Negro after the PP out of bounds call was priceless. I hope I'm wrong here but it appears when you've lost as much as the Clips and have been invalid for so long, you just begin to accept what's given to you. Granted they are showing signs of life with Griffin and the fans are really into it there, but there were some very strange sequences with lack of response from their staff on these calls.

5) Green played exactly like PP, KG, RA and RR played coming off the bench for the first times in their careers in the All Star game last week. It kind of had the "WTF is this" look and feel to it. I was a starter just last week, now I'm playing 18 minutes backing up? Give him a game or two. But the C's in the All Star game figured it out intra game. Delonte's been out 3 months and in two games, he has given me all I could ask for. Give Green another game or two and Doc's going to have a great luxury on his hands.

P.S. What's the deal with us getting to play our new guys but OKC gets damaged goods in Perk and waits 2-3 weeks? I know physicals have to be passed, but clearly trading an injured player isn't that big of a deal. Just curious. I guess OKC agreed to it. So desparate for an inside presence that they'll take someone injured. Don't understand the whole behind the scenes medical requirements, fairness, etc. Just looks like we opened our presents first. No biggie.

Sam

I like Baby and love you,but what is wailing? I thought Baby was getting scored/posted on more than usual.....it seems we won alot despite Perks bad hands,turnovers and FT shooting that I believe you've mentioned before.If its up to me I take Perk over Baby,and Baby can close, but 30 plus minutes of him won't work vs Heat, Bulls or Lakers IMHO.

cow

dbrown

Love the last take, "we get to open our presents first!"

great line but I wondered the same thing. How can we trade an injured player without their doctors looking over the situation? Befuddles me. Seems every time you hear about a trade you hear the words about the player passing a physical or the trade is off. Not here though, Sort of reminds me when I put a for sale sign on my 1980 Pontiac Firebird that had engine issues. (and 140,000 miles on it) it was a babe magnet, candy apple red, sun roof ect..........) Bough it brand new! Had it for 6 years!

Sold it a couple days later for $500 and on the bill of sale wrote AS IS!

I found out about 2 months later they blew the engine up. Told them not to horse around with it! They tried to come back on me but AS IS protected me.

Wonder if Danny got an AS IS from OKC?

beat

Cow,

I believe that, if you'll look back to my post, you'll see that I mention "some people." I would never single you out for wailing. I'm sorry if you identified with my statement.

Sam

According to RedsArmy, Doc turned to Frank and asked him if Krstic's offensive rebounding was "normal" for him. Frank replied "if it was, I'd still be at NJ".

Lawrence Frank coached Krstic for 4 years with the Nets.

bob

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sam wrote:Cow,

I believe that, if you'll look back to my post, you'll see that I mention "some people." I would never single you out for wailing. I'm sorry if you identified with my statement.

Sam

sam,

Nothing wrong with wailing.

Bunny and the Wailers
Wailin' Jennings (I know, but close enough)
Jump, Jive and Wail


bob

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dbrown4 wrote:3) The LAC announcers were very insightful. I couldn't tell if these guys had been doing this for a while, but they were very knowledgable and probably knew more about Boston than LAC. Problems with backing off Rondo, Celtics turning LAC into jump shooters, etc. All very good stuff. Very objective even when Clips were ahead. They weren't the run of the mill obnoxious homer ones we have to deal with all the time.

If you can believe it, Ralph Lawler is in his 30th season as a Clippers broadcaster. He is very good. He's knowledgeable and tells it like it is, and somehow he doesn't let the fact that the Clippers have been so bad for so long dampen his enthusiasm.

As for "obnoxious homers," umm... you do realize that people from other cities who watch Celtic broadcasts listen to Tommy, right? From what I can tell, most Celtic fans love Tommy, but if you love your homer, it seems only fair to accept the homers for other teams. After all, Tommy sets the standard of being totally endearing to home team fans and barely tolerable to fans of other teams.

dbrown4 wrote:P.S. What's the deal with us getting to play our new guys but OKC gets damaged goods in Perk and waits 2-3 weeks? I know physicals have to be passed, but clearly trading an injured player isn't that big of a deal. Just curious. I guess OKC agreed to it. So desparate for an inside presence that they'll take someone injured. Don't understand the whole behind the scenes medical requirements, fairness, etc. Just looks like we opened our presents first. No biggie.

OKC did indeed agree to it. If they determine that his current injury is temporary, then he can pass his physical even though he's currently injured. They're not going to throw away a years-long investment just because of a 2-3 week strain. My guess is that they're more concerned with his shoulder and surgically repaired knee because of the long-term implications.

OKC turned down a trade for Tyson Chandler last year because they thought arthritis in his big toe would limit his long-term health. They got some criticism for that because Chandler has obviously been fine since then, but if he has an issue in the next year or two, then they made the right choice.

The trade I thought might get nixed over a physical was Baron Davis to Cleveland, but Cleveland passed him.

Bob,

Bob Marley and the ________.

Sam

Outside,

As I think you're suggesting, Okla. City probably went over his knee and shoulder carefully, and the trade could have been nixed if either hadn't passed muster. But they had to have agreed not to stop the proceedings because of his more recent knee injury. I would guess something about that would be written into any formal agreement.

In all of the furor over the trade, one thing that hasn't been mentioned as much as I thought it might was that the Celtics gave up a player who could easily have potentially limiting health chronic situations in return for two healthy players. (The longer Kristic's knee goes without flaring up again, the less worrisome it becomes. Same with Perk, of course.)

I believe the shoulder is part of the reason why he frequently tries (usually abortively) to rebound with one hand. (His lack of height and lift is another reason, as it's possible to lean and stretch a little farther by using only one arm.) And, as for the knee, his sheer weight puts a lot of pressure on it.

We all hope that Perk will have an injury-free career from now on. He had become a model and valuable soldier (I'd call him an Infantry man) for the Celtics. But, on a strictly pragmatic basis, there's something to be said for going the route of center by committee rather than on primarily one person with a history of injuries.

Sam

BTW,

Having NYK light up LeBron last night was most enjoyable. LeBron had that exact same look on his face after this game when we knocked them out in the playoffs. "This just isn't going to work."

Has anyone checked out MIA schedule coming up? This is bascially the season for MIA. If they don't figure out how to beat the upper crust, #1-3 seed is over.

NYK, ORL, @SAS, CHI, POR, LAL, MEM, SAS, OKC, @ATL, and DEN! Already 0-1. The only advantage they have is that most are at home. If they can come out 6-5 that would be about as good as you could as for. While ours is no cakewalk with all the adjustments, we may be finally looking at the breathing room we need to hold onto #1 seed. CHI is going to have to help, though. And they will. They are masters of the bonehead, inexplicable losses. Not counting chickens but this is a plus given our mess.

Sam,

To do due diligence, the team has to give the player a complete physical. They'll check his surgically repaired joints to see if there's unacceptable long-term issues. They'll check his currently tweaked knee to verify that it's only a short-term issue, and if they find a long-term issue, that could be a deal-breaker. They'll do a blood workup and check his heart and lungs and whatever else is reasonable to check.

I don't think there's any "as is" clause prior to the physical. The team does the physical, and if he passes, he's now the new team's player. Anything that comes up after that point is on the new team.

It's comparable to Beat's car situation in that it's up to the buyer to review the car to determine if it's acceptable, and once the deal is accepted, anything that happens is on the buyer. I don't know the specifics of the law or how it varies by state, but my expectation is that even if Beat hadn't written "as is" on the title, the engine blowing up on the new owner is the new owner's responsibility. It's a "driveway guarantee" -- the guarantee expires as soon as you leave the driveway.

Maybe the trade agreement includes something about Perk's current knee issue, sort of like a real estate disclosure for a known issue about a piece of property. But if OKC felt the current knee issue was more serious, they could refuse to let Perk pass the physical and void the deal. It's not like the Celts could say, "oh, Perk has an issue with his knee that will keep him out a couple of weeks," and that protects them against anything wrong with the knee.

Outside