POST GAME OKC

Welcome back Perk......We miss you! The Celtics got some good rhythm in the game and flashes of old but the turnovers in key situations killed us especially RA with 3 and KG with 5. Problem tonight, we got PP back into the game and scoring but RA just disappeared mostly due to the fact that he had no real good looks at the basket. Pietrus really looking good with energy and scoring! Problem is we do not have enough shooters like him! With all the good I saw tonight a loss is still a loss, 5th in a row, and now we are 4-8. Thank god the Atlantic division is not that good so we have a shot at the playoffs.

Of note, I like this kid Moore, he has nice size at 6'5'' and he is really quick. Although he did not score, once he gets confidence he's going to be a good one. Perhaps we have seen the last of Bradley.

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WEEI 850 RECAP

FAST BREAK: CELTICS CAN’T CATCH UP TO THUNDER
By Ben Rohrbach


In a reminder of just how different this team is from the one that won the NBA title in 2008, the Celtics welcomed former center Kendrick Perkins to town, and his new team handed his (really) old team their fifth straight defeat, 97-88.

As Kevin Durant (28 points) and Russell Westbrook (26 points) combined for 54 points, the Thunder improved to 12-2 with their sixth road win in seven tries, leaving the Celtics (4- still searching for their first victory against a .500-plus team.

WHAT WENT WRONG

Slow me the way: The Celtics shot 34.1 percent in the first half and failed to scored 40 points before the break for the fourth time in six games, trailing the Thunder 46-39 after the opening 24 minutes. Once again, the C’s dug themselves into an early hole and spent the rest of the night tiring themselves out trying to dig out of it. Twice in the second half — once in the third and again late in the fourth quarter — they made runs to get back into the game, only to watch OKC widen the gap again.

Can they get a lift? The Celtics made a concerted effort to get to the rim, and they succeeded in getting to the basket, but their old legs just didn’t have the lift to finish the job. Thunder forward Serge Ibaka totaled four blocks in the first half alone, leaving the C’s with little to show for their effort.

Russell Westbrook > Rajon Rondo: At least for one night, in a battle of two point guards who have been mentioned in possible trade scenarios for each other, Westbrook got the best of his counterpart Rondo. Sure, Rondo nearly had a triple-double (12 points, 9 assists, 9 rebounds, 4 turnovers), but Westbrook buried impossibly big shot after impossibly big shot down the stretch, totaling 26 points, seven rebounds and four assists.

WHAT WENT RIGHT

Ain’t that The Truth: Entering Monday night, Pierce had converted only 13-of-46 field goals (or 28.3%) in his previous four games, still playing himself back into game shape after missing much of training camp with a heel injury. Against Oklahoma City, the C’s captain showed signs of returning to form, netting 24 points on 8-of-15 shooting.

Marvelous Pietrus: The Celtics needed somebody who can score and play defense off the bench, and they found him in Pietrus. The newest C’s reserve has shown few signs of a knee injury that nullified his trade to the Raptors this past offseason. He finished with 14 points on 5-of-9 shooting (3-6 3P).

A Marquis Daniels sighting: Daniels hadn’t scored in almost two weeks, playing a grand total of 55 seconds in the C’s last three games. Whether or not it’s a result of his recovery from spinal cord surgery, the three-year C’s veteran has had a rough start to the 2011-12 NBA season, but he made the most of his five first-half minutes — totaling four points on a pair of layups and grabbing three boards.

Welcome back, Perk: As they’ve done for the likes of Brian Scalabrine and Eddie House in the past, the Celtics paid homage to Perkins in a Jumbotron montage as the crowd stood in ovation during a timeout break. Between the whistles, though, the Celtics kept their former starting center in check — holding him to seven points and five boards. Both Jermaine O’Neal (12 points, 11 rebounds) and Kevin Garnett (12 points, 12 rebounds) outperformed Perkins on the evening.

AGAIN, our three old Hall Of Famers shoot a miserable combined 36.6% this evening (15 for 41). Sam, I know you don't agree but age is caught up QUICKLY. Ray has had a mostly good year (although he was invisible tonight), Paul's had a couple of solid games in an otherwise terrible start to the season, but KG has been playing like he's 40 all year. 5 for 19 against OKC and missing a lot of easy buckets. No spring in his step anymore. Losing the ball or getting it tipped away from him all too often.

And Rondo, Ray and KG's turnovers killed any momentum we had going at times. Too many from those guys. And many were unforced. Three really bad passes for easy steals by Ray.

It's always something to beat us against any good team. And that's a sign of a bad team, which we are right now. I think one announcer said Boston has been outscored 83-26 on second chance points the past four games not counting tonight. So much has to go right for us to beat anybody decent it's hard to imagine us being competitive against the four or five elite teams in the league. Four straight losses at home. Yikes.

Is Philly really gonna run away with this division? We're already 5 1/2 games out.

Not lookin' good so far.

Give me a game in which Rondo has a virtual triple double, both KG and Jermaine hav double-doubles, Paul Pierce goes off for 24 points (including some important forays into the paint), and Pietrus scores (including some big threes) and defends really well off the bench, and I'll usually take my chances. There were two flied in that ointment. (1) The Thunder kept Ray Allen in check, almost completely blanketing him from the perimeter. (2) terrible crosscourt passing decisions and dribbling into traffic created far too many turnovers of the type that set the Thunder off and running.

Maybe I'm imagining it, but I actually see progress on a number of fronts despite the losing streak. An increasing number of spurts with good energy and better ball movement. Acceptable defense against a dangerous offense manned by a couple of greyhounds. The offensive emergence of Paul Pierce. The continued inspirational play of Pietrus at both ends of the floor (he's really acclimating to the team in a hurry). I thought Quis gave them a real spark, particularly in the second quarter.

Maybe it was just the matchups, but Doc seems to be moving away from Bradley, Wilcox and Steamer. I'm liking Moore's heady instincts as a backup POINT, although he hasn't played enough minutes to get all that excited about. I know many people are enthused about Stiemsma, and he's had some good moments. I believe his limited minutes of late reflect Doc's decision to inject as much athleticism as possible by going small when Jermaine's out of the game.

I'm mindful of the continuing entreaties that Danny needs to get them a decent center. I'm sure that, if the people making those demands would present Danny with a list of qualified, available candidates and some way of paying for one of them, he'd strongly consider making a move.

One observation related to the future. The number of trips Rondo is way out in front of his teammates in zipping up the floor continues to make me salivate for days when the rotation becomes more athletic. I don't believe this should be that year, as their direction is one of leveraging experience one last time. But seeing guys like Quis and Pietrus (to say nothing of Bass) flanking Rondo on the break really gets my attention.

Sam

sam wrote:Give me a game in which Rondo has a virtual triple double, both KG and Jermaine hav double-doubles, Paul Pierce goes off for 24 points (including some important forays into the paint), and Pietrus scores (including some big threes) and defends really well off the bench, and I'll usually take my chances. There were two flied in that ointment. (1) The Thunder kept Ray Allen in check, almost completely blanketing him from the perimeter. (2) terrible crosscourt passing decisions and dribbling into traffic created far too many turnovers of the type that set the Thunder off and running.

Maybe I'm imagining it, but I actually see progress on a number of fronts despite the losing streak. An increasing number of spurts with good energy and better ball movement. Acceptable defense against a dangerous offense manned by a couple of greyhounds. The offensive emergence of Paul Pierce. The continued inspirational play of Pietrus at both ends of the floor (he's really acclimating to the team in a hurry). I thought Quis gave them a real spark, particularly in the second quarter.

Maybe it was just the matchups, but Doc seems to be moving away from Bradley, Wilcox and Steamer. I'm liking Moore's heady instincts as a backup POINT, although he hasn't played enough minutes to get all that excited about. I know many people are enthused about Stiemsma, and he's had some good moments. I believe his limited minutes of late reflect Doc's decision to inject as much athleticism as possible by going small when Jermaine's out of the game.

I'm mindful of the continuing entreaties that Danny needs to get them a decent center. I'm sure that, if the people making those demands would present Danny with a list of qualified, available candidates and some way of paying for one of them, he'd strongly consider making a move.

One observation related to the future. The number of trips Rondo is way out in front of his teammates in zipping up the floor continues to make me salivate for days when the rotation becomes more athletic. I don't believe this should be that year, as their direction is one of leveraging experience one last time. But seeing guys like Quis and Pietrus (to say nothing of Bass) flanking Rondo on the break really gets my attention.

Sam

Sam, you praise KG's double-double but fail to mention his woeful 5 for 19 shooting and 5 turnovers. I don't want that kind of double-double from him ever again.

Steve, I fully recognize that age can affect performance. But I see many more mental than physical errors out there. Yes, I think KG's alley oop days are pretty much behind him, and I believe he was lucky to tip one of those in tonight. And perhaps the lethargy I see in the hafcourt is caused by age. But, for the most part, I believe that age factor is overrated.

I continue to maintain that their performance improves as games progress. They're losing first halves and winning second halves. They're holding opponents to 92 points per game. To me, those things are not a sign of decrepit players. Their execution is not good because they're out of synch. But the good news with respect to the effect of age is that they're picking it up at points in the game when they should be most fatigued.

Yes, I don't place as much emphasis on individual stats as you do because there are few games when not one player on the team has a lousy stat. Think of the great games Rondo has helped to win despite having six turnovers. I look at the performance of the TEAM, and I'm seeing a team that is in the early stages of learning how to blend well. Maybe they'll never get beyond that stage, but I'm hoping they will. Heck, just a few games ago, people were complaining because KG wasn't getting enough touches. In this game, he got a lot of touches but missed a lot of shots. Maybe in the next game, he'll make a lot of shots. Who knows? Before this game, he was shooting .492 from the floor and .824 from the line. Which is the aberration—this one game or the other eleven games?

We'll see.

Sam

P.S. I'm adding this as an edit because I thought of it after making this post. One thing age is doing is forcing Doc to play the older veterans for shorter stints. And one effect of that fact is that, unlike previous seasons, they're not so likely to be playing as a consistent unit. Getting used to a variety of combinations takes a while. You can see Celtics (including the older veterans) getting surprised by their teammates out there. I call that being out of synch. There's plenty of time (barring serious injuries) for them to get better used to one another. I'm happy to wait patiently to see if it happens.

And, by the way, I don't believe I gave KG any particular praise for his double double. I simply mentioned it as one of several positive things that happened in the game. You should know that, most of the time when I mention an individual player, it's within the context of some team phenomenon.

There is some chatter about Westbrook for Rondo. Do we make that deal and perhaps expand on it with Ray Allen going as well?


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112288,

What's the source reporting the chatter?

Sam

sam wrote:Steve, I fully recognize that age can affect performance. But I see many more mental than physical errors out there. Yes, I think KG's alley oop days are pretty much behind him, and I believe he was lucky to tip one of those in tonight. And perhaps the lethargy I see in the hafcourt is caused by age. But, for the most part, I believe that age factor is overrated.

I continue to maintain that their performance improves as games progress. They're losing first halves and winning second halves. They're holding opponents to 92 points per game. To me, those things are not a sign of decrepit players. Their execution is not good because they're out of synch. But the good news with respect to the effect of age is that they're picking it up at points in the game when they should be most fatigued.

Yes, I don't place as much emphasis on individual stats as you do because there are few games when not one player on the team has a lousy stat. Think of the great games Rondo has helped to win despite having six turnovers. I look at the performance of the TEAM, and I'm seeing a team that is in the early stages of learning how to blend well. Maybe they'll never get beyond that stage, but I'm hoping they will. Heck, just a few games ago, people were complaining because KG wasn't getting enough touches. In this game, he got a lot of touches but missed a lot of shots. Maybe in the next game, he'll make a lot of shots. Who knows? Before this game, he was shooting .492 from the floor and .824 from the line. Which is the aberration—this one game or the other eleven games?

We'll see.

Sam

P.S. I'm adding this as an edit because I thought of it after making this post. One thing age is doing is forcing Doc to play the older veterans for shorter stints. And one effect of that fact is that, unlike previous seasons, they're not so likely to be playing as a consistent unit. Getting used to a variety of combinations takes a while. You can see Celtics (including the older veterans) getting surprised by their teammates out there. I call that being out of synch. There's plenty of time (barring serious injuries) for them to get better used to one another. I'm happy to wait patiently to see if it happens.

This team is playing decent defense. I'm not as impressed at the 92 PPG opposing teams are scoring against us because we play a slower game than most teams, decreasing their offensive opportunities. What we are is offensively challenged, scoring under 90 points per game on the season, lowest since the pre-Russell days of '53-'54. And an awful rebounding team.

Steve,

I agree about the offensive issues. Of course, I've been talking about that for three years. I've always disliked all the standing around, especially when the results are so good when they move out there and swing the ball like they did in the third quarter tonight. Standing around make them difficult to guard, makes their passes predictable, leads to too many bailout shots as the clock winds down, and is an open invitation for opponents to lurk in the passing lanes.

One difference (and this could possibly be age-related) is that, in previous years, they hit a lot of those bailout shots. Yhis year, not so much. They're definitely going to have to speed up their offense, and I don't mean via the fast break. I mean they need to get into their first halfcourt option earlier than in the pass so they have alternatives if the first option doesn't work out.

Sam

I think the Westbrook for Rondo proposal was actually part of the Westbrook and Perk for Rondo and Green offer that Ainge floated to OKC after last season and prior to the lock out. Danny was quoted on it in a couple of places that I recall and it seemed like more of a trial balloon, but I'm not sure what he was fishing for. I think it was in The Herald and reported on ESPN. I don't know if it hit The Globe, but I would think it should have.

It was in one of the sites that I scanned tonight which are about 15 and I need to check where I saw it tomorrow as it is getting late. NY is correct, I saw the same articles written about Rondo & Westbrook.

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112288 and NYCelt,

I noted that tonight's TNT announcers mentioned some "give and take" between Durant and Westbrook. I wasn't certain (and I'm still not certain) what they may have meant by "give and take." Is it possible that they don't see eye to eye or that they both need the ball too much to coexist with maximum effectiveness?

A related question (although I believe there won't be a Rondo-Westbrook trade) is how a PG who needs the ball and likes to score the ball will fit in with the current bunch of Boston Celtics. Also, I'm not in love with Westbrook's defense.

Sam

Sam,

Not sure what they were thinking. Westbrook is a young guy like Rondo but he is a little rough around the edges, but boy he can shoot. Rondo had the advantage of Doc tutoring him. Wonder what Westbrook would look like with Doc teaching him?

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SAM,

Last paragraph in "What Went Wrong" WEEI 850 RECAP from my original post tonight which talks about Rondo/Westbrook match up and rumors.


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One thing that has gotten my craw on the Perkins & Baby trades is why are they in so fantastic shape with considerable weight loss playing for OKC & Orlando and they never made the effort when playing for the Celtics. I just don't get it!

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Westbrook to me, is a great talent – with no head for the game. You can be sure he will score in bunches in January, and when the season is on the line – he will throw the ball away, dribble off his foot, or throw up a terrible off balance 3 pointer.

I would MUCH rather have Rondo here for a number of reasons. 1) Rondo is a much better defender and enjoys making steals and moving his feet on defense. 2) Rondo is a much better distributor, and any big name free agent would love to play with a guy like that. Can you imagine Dwight Howard getting fed by Rondo all night? 3) In spite of his off the court actions, Rondo has a lot more on the court maturity – and moxy.

Westbrook and his holstering his guns after each big shot is going to come back to bite him in the ass later in the season…he needs to grow up and do a lot less talking and a lot more playing…at least until he has actually won something.

Mrkleen,

I agree as well on all your points.

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steve3344 wrote:AGAIN, our three old Hall Of Famers shoot a miserable combined 36.6% this evening (15 for 41). Sam, I know you don't agree but age is caught up QUICKLY. Ray has had a mostly good year (although he was invisible tonight), Paul's had a couple of solid games in an otherwise terrible start to the season, but KG has been playing like he's 40 all year. 5 for 19 against OKC and missing a lot of easy buckets. No spring in his step anymore. Losing the ball or getting it tipped away from him all too often.

And Rondo, Ray and KG's turnovers killed any momentum we had going at times. Too many from those guys. And many were unforced. Three really bad passes for easy steals by Ray.

It's always something to beat us against any good team. And that's a sign of a bad team, which we are right now. I think one announcer said Boston has been outscored 83-26 on second chance points the past four games not counting tonight. So much has to go right for us to beat anybody decent it's hard to imagine us being competitive against the four or five elite teams in the league. Four straight losses at home. Yikes.

Is Philly really gonna run away with this division? We're already 5 1/2 games out.

Not lookin' good so far.

Steve

Ditto the age thing. For some it may be tiny regressions for others a lost 1/2 step or no spring. The mind may still be willing but the body no longer responds like it did even a year ago. Short spurts is not going to cut it but that may be all we have left. We are not a very good team right now. For a team that relies so much on so few and those few are "old" by NBA standards this season will be difficult. Doc has his work cut out to get this bunch to play consistantly.

Long season.....

beat

Trading deadline is March 15th. By February 15th teams will know where they are headed. If by then we are still sub 500, look for Danny to begin the bartering of talent to other teams who seriously have a shot at the title and are looking for that one extra vet to put them over the top.

112288

112288 wrote:Trading deadline is March 15th. By February 15th teams will know where they are headed. If by then we are still sub 500, look for Danny to begin the bartering of talent to other teams who seriously have a shot at the title and are looking for that one extra vet to put them over the top.

112288

112288

I betcha DA already is

beat

Beat,

Did not want to be the first but, ya. Listen I rather take my lumps and have a team with a bunch of exciting young players like Green and Rondo that would attract a few stars to come join the Celtics next year as free agency opens.

I think we have a number of players we can package out side of KG and RA.
Pietrus could garner some value because he's only 29, has experienced and plays defense and can shoot the 3, and Bass who is young at 26 and has an all round game.

stay tuned!

112288

Some of the comments in this thread are interesting. I saw a HUGE leap forward last night.

On offense, I saw more ball and player movement, and purposeful movement, than previously. Pierce looked like a different player. Jermaine O'Neal contributed offensively. They got quality contributions from Bass, Pietrus, and Daniels off the bench. No, it wasn't perfect and an L is still an L, but this was a quality effort against the team with the best record in the league. They looked half a step quicker on everything. They outrebounded the Thunder, including 15 offensive rebounds. This is a game they can build on.

There were a few downsides that weren't resolved. They absolutely must find a way to have better first quarters. It's such a killer to put themselves behind like that. One hallmark of the big 3 era is to play basically even in the first half except for a five-minute stretch when they enforce their will and get the lead. Then the other team expends energy in the third to get back in it, but that energy surge is followed by an energy lull, and the Celtics keep the lead going into the fourth. The most common problem they've had the past couple of years is poor fourth quarters, but they're ahead at that point and forcing the other team to expend the extra energy. When they get off to a bad start, that turns that whole dynamic on its head, and they now become the team having to expend extra energy to get back in the game. They absolutely must find a way to have better starts.

KG isn't KG anymore. Maybe we should call him Garnett instead of KG, because KG isn't walking through that door. He is still a valuable member of this team, but man does he need quality center play. But he'll do what he can with what they have.

A couple of key turnovers turned into OKC fast breaks, Westbrook was on for a change, and Ray was cold when he happened to be left open. The turnovers were particularly vexing, but Westbrook being hot and Ray being cold just happens (and OKC paid a lot of attention to keeping someone on Ray). OKC is a very good team. There's a reason they're the favorite to come out of the West.

A 4-8 record isn't exactly what Boston had in mind, but lucky for them, they're in the East. In the West, 4-8 would have them tied for 12th, one game out of last, but it puts them tied for ninth in the East, 1.5 games out of eighth. This is definitely doable, and playing like they did last night, especially if they can avoid slow starts, will get them lots of W's. Now it's up to them to show whether this is the start of something or an aberration.

As for any hypothetical Rondo for Westbrook trade, I'm in the "keep Rondo" camp. Westbrook is a better scorer, but with the pace they play, the young legs they have on the break, and the shooters they have on the wing, this guy should be averaging 12 assists, yet he had 8.4 last season and is averaging a measly 5.4 so far this season. He fancies himself as an equal to Durant and chafes at the notion that he should be something less. He's got some knucklehead in him and hasn't fully bought into everything being about the team, not him, which is why OKC has entertained the notion of trading him. I don't see how it helps to trade one guy who can be something of a head case for another. Keep the guy who at least knows it's about the team.

Outside

beat wrote:

112288 wrote:Trading deadline is March 15th. By February 15th teams will know where they are headed. If by then we are still sub 500, look for Danny to begin the bartering of talent to other teams who seriously have a shot at the title and are looking for that one extra vet to put them over the top.

112288

112288

I betcha DA already is

beat

112288 and beat
My post of a few days ago echoed the same sentiment.I believe that when and if Danny thinks its over, he will try to get something for Allen and Garnett, even if its only a late round draft pick. By the way,Pierce's 2013-14 salary is only guaranteed for 4-5 million if he is waived by 6/30/14, so its likely that next year will be his last with the Celts.

Swish

Pietrus & Bass are valuable. I wouldn't deal them. Garnett and Allen are different stories. I doubt if Pierce will be moved, too big of a contract, also he stuck with the organization during the lean times which look like are upon us as I speak. We may not get much for Allen or Garnett but clear cap space for next year. This team as it is constituted is sinking in quicksand. My guess is the Celtic team in mid April, the one going on hiatus after the regular season will look vastly different than the one that started last night vs. OKC. In retrospect it really is sad that we let 2010 get away when we had the Lakers 3-2 going back to LA. That looks like as close as we'll get for the forseeable future