Perk vs. Steamer

I post this with some trepidation because it's purely hypothetical.

Sam

Im going for Perk, man i miss that dood. the teams loss of him has cost us two titles i beleive

first vs the lakers

secondly, vs heat last yr, if the rondo injury had happened, perk i think would have leveled the playing feild.

but thats the past, as for today and beyond.. yeah id still take him. his game is exactly the sort of prototype i prefer in a Center

I'm going with Steamer.

1. His outside shot opens up the floor.
2. He is a MUCH better shot blocker and shot intimidator than Perk.
3. He is a MUCH better free throw shooter than Perk, so he can be in @ crunch time.
4. He doesn't have stone hands.
5. Steamer's assist-to-TO ratio is slightly negative. Perk's was awful.

Per 36mpg:
Perk, in his last season with us
10.0ppg, 54.2fg%, 11.2 rpg, 1.2 assists, 1.2 bpg, 2.6 TOs, .531 ft%

Steamer
7.5ppg, 51.5fg%, 8.5rpg, 1.4assists, 1.6stls, 4.1bpg, 1.6TOs, .722% ft%

Steamer, in his last 10 games
19.8mpg, 5.0ppg, 70.4fg%, 4.7rpg, .7apg, 1.9bpg, .9spg

Steamer's a rookie. This is his first time through this obstacle course. The numbers for Perk was after how many years in the league?

Last, but not least, let's also remember we're comparing a starting NBA center and a backup center. You expect more from a starter.

Steamer could be a flash in the pan, but right now he's getting the job done for me.

bob


.

I'm going with Steamer, as the smarter Bob above mentioned Steamer is a rookie, though probably about the same age as Perk, and I think his overall game will ultimately be better than Perk's.

Steemer's smarter, better hands, better shot blocker, and is just now refining his game. Perk has already peaked, will never get smarter, will never get better hands, draws too many T's, and is more expensive. Both about the same age.

Steamer, for the reasons Bob listed, plus he's younger.

Steamboat.

If Perk was in the game last night and the calls from the refs went down the same way, Perk would have cost the C's a tech or two down the stretch. That would have meant the game may have (probably would have?) gone the other way.

I saw an article recently that mentioned that Perk is on the cusp of missing games due to his season tech total being one away from the limit. I do not miss that crap at all.

I like the saying, "Act like you have been there before." Steamboat gets it, Perk never did. Perk was voted "Most overrated player in his own mind" (or something like that) by the PLAYERS a couple of years ago.

I don't know how much upside Steamboat has in his game, but his attitude and what I have seen in his first year wins it for me.

Perk with Perk we're the baddest team, look how he defends the really BIG bigs out there, Steamer while a very good shotblocker is not the physical enforcer Perk is.....if I'm going at Howard or Lakers I want that Beast in the lane, if KG doesn't go down, then Perk in game 6 the next year we realistically could have had 3 titles. Perks stats were never great, but its all the dirty work, occuppying the biggest mofo on the other team and bangin and pounding him, enabling everyone else to roam and play their games. That starting 5 never lost a playoff series, right now Steamers not even starting.

I love what I'm seeing from Steamer, he can defend, but I still gotta take the Beast

Tough one.

First who knows what we will have next season to go with either of these?

So I qualify this for this team as it is right now.

For what we have or better yet DON'T have I guess I'd take Perk. Would allow KG to roam on D and that appears to be what he does best. Would set some mean picks to free up all our shooters and of course get called for at least one moving one every game.

Steamer will never be an enforcer period.

Look at OKC record. Look at what they have said about him. Look at how much weight Perk lost yet he still plays tough under the hoop. Makes the other teams big guys work.

Yeah Perk has probably reached his upside and Steamer has a ways to go but RIGT NOW for me it is Perk but not by a lot.

So my next option would be BOTH!!

beat

5-3 in favor of Perk yet the comments favor Steamer 5-3??

This ain't Florida with the hanging chads!

There are 8 comments and 8 votes. So if all 8 of us voted something is amiss.

beat

beat wrote:Tough one.

First who knows what we will have next season to go with either of these?

So I qualify this for this team as it is right now.

For what we have or better yet DON'T have I guess I'd take Perk. Would allow KG to roam on D and that appears to be what he does best. Would set some mean picks to free up all our shooters and of course get called for at least one moving one every game.

Steamer will never be an enforcer period.

Look at OKC record. Look at what they have said about him. Look at how much weight Perk lost yet he still plays tough under the hoop. Makes the other teams big guys work.

Yeah Perk has probably reached his upside and Steamer has a ways to go but RIGT NOW for me it is Perk but not by a lot.

So my next option would be BOTH!!

beat

beat,

Good point about Steamer never being an enforcer. An eraser, yes, an enforcer, no.

As far as Perk enabling KG to roam on D, the situation we have now is that Steamer usually comes in for KG because we are so thin at 5 (which KG rarely played when Perk was here). There are periods where they play together, but not usually (I think). It's Doc's substitution patterns, working with the roster he's got due to injuries to JON and Wilcox. When they are in together, does KG roam on D like he did when Perk was here?

bob

.

Bob

Think KG is roaming closer to the basket on D, his rebound numbers on the D boards appear to reflect that. On offense he's shooting a mess of jumpers in the 15-20 foot range but still goes inside enough to remember where the paint is. Steamer is still getting use to playing, Perk would be playing twice the minutes for us now that Steamer is, which would mean KG would be on the floor a lot more with Perk than with Steamer.

In another year who the heck knows what or who we will have.

A lot depends on egos and salaries I guess. At least I can see MOST of these guys wanting to stick together. And then bring our wounded back (no JON please) and we might be pleasantly surprised.

beat

beat

beat wrote:Bob

Think KG is roaming closer to the basket on D, his rebound numbers on the D boards appear to reflect that. On offense he's shooting a mess of jumpers in the 15-20 foot range but still goes inside enough to remember where the paint is. Steamer is still getting use to playing, Perk would be playing twice the minutes for us now that Steamer is, which would mean KG would be on the floor a lot more with Perk than with Steamer.

In another year who the heck knows what or who we will have.

A lot depends on egos and salaries I guess. At least I can see MOST of these guys wanting to stick together. And then bring our wounded back (no JON please) and we might be pleasantly surprised.

beat

beat

beat,

Steamer has averaged 19.8mpg over the past 10 games.

In his last year with us Perk averaged 27.6mpg. At no time in his career has Perk averaged 30mpg (2008-2009 he averaged 29.6). Even now, with OKC, he's only averaging 26.7.

My point is that, if playing 30mpg regularly is the mark of a starter (or, as in the case with Ray Allen, a former starter who is now off the bench to provide firepower and leadership to the second unit but still plays starter minutes) then Perk was never really a starter. Yes, he started games. So does Avery Bradley, but he probably plays 10mpg less than Ray.

As Sam pointed out, this poll and discussion is about now, when you write it. By the second round of the playoffs we might change our opinions and it certainly might be different at this time next year. Perk getting suspended because he gets too many Ts (he only needs 1 more) might shade our opinion a bit too.

bob

.

Actually Bob this is what Sam put out as the crux of the poll. It's right above the voting graph in the green block letters

Suppose, for one reason or another, you could have either Perk or Steamer with the Celtics next season and beyond. You can't have both. Which would you prefer and why? We'll keep this thread going through the playoffs, and changing votes is allowed.

I sort of reworded it to the NOW to suit my vote as to me it depends so much on whom we have to go with either of these guys.

Agree that Perks T's are a factor NOW but not really a consideration for whom I would pick next year.

So I am sort of playing on both sides of the fence.

But my vote would still go to Perk both for now and next year.

Steamer is a close second though and certainly like the wind I might change my direction on this later.... today tomorrow or next week.

beat

maybe I'll pretend I'm in Chicago and vote multiple times

Pretty close so far, and I noticed the discrepancy Beat mentioned between the voting and the supporting comments. Loved Gyso's "Steamboat" moniker for Greg. I'm envisioning this sidewheeler chugging up the floor, although "Steamboat" moves pretty well.

Sam

beat wrote:Actually Bob this is what Sam put out as the crux of the poll. It's right above the voting graph in the green block letters

Suppose, for one reason or another, you could have either Perk or Steamer with the Celtics next season and beyond. You can't have both. Which would you prefer and why? We'll keep this thread going through the playoffs, and changing votes is allowed.

I sort of reworded it to the NOW to suit my vote as to me it depends so much on whom we have to go with either of these guys.

Agree that Perks T's are a factor NOW but not really a consideration for whom I would pick next year.

So I am sort of playing on both sides of the fence.

But my vote would still go to Perk both for now and next year.

Steamer is a close second though and certainly like the wind I might change my direction on this later.... today tomorrow or next week.

beat

beat,

Yep, you're right, he did say "next year and beyond".

I'm still sticking with Steamboat but, as you pointed out, it's a very tough call.

In Perk's first year (he was 19), he played an average of 3.5mpg over 10 games. That's right, he played a total of 35 minutes his first year. In his second year he averaged 9.1mpg. It wasn't until his 3rd year in the league that he averaged 19.6mpg, about what Steamer has averaged in his last 10 games in this, his 1st season.

In that 3rd year, where Perk was playing a solid 19.6mpg, here are his /36mpg stats from that year:

9.6ppg, 51.5fg%, 61.5ft%, 10.9rpg, 1.9apg, 2.9TOpg, .6stlspg, 2.8blkspg.

Steamer's /36mpg stats:
7.5ppg, 51.9fg%, 72.2fg%, 8.6rpg, 1.4apg, 1.6TOpg, 1.6stlpg, 4.0blkspg

Here's their actual stats, not adjusted for time.

Perk (19.6mpg): 5.2ppg, 51.5fg%, 61.5ft%, 5.9rpg, 1.0apg, 1.6TOpg, .3stlspg

Steamer's last 10 games (19.9mpg) 4.6ppg, 66.7fg%, 4.8rpg, .7apg, .9TOpg, .9stlspg

Pretty close. Edge to Perk on ppg and rpg. Edge to Steamer on fg%, ft%, ast-TO ratio and steals.

I don't miss Perk having to compulsively bounce the ball after he received a pass underneath and then get stuffed because the defense had a chance to collapse on him.
I do miss watching him lay out penetrators.

I don't miss watching the offense play 4-on-5 when he was in.
I do miss him glaring at opponents and daring them to drive to the hoop.

bob

.

Ok, here is a quick observation.

We are talking about the two of them in the same sentence, and, look what we would have had to pay Perk to stay. Based on that, my vote goes to Steamer!

Pete

I do not think that Perk alters a game the way that Steamer can. I do think he
is a little better rebounder. I like what Steamer brings to the game, expecially this second half of the season, could it be Garnett?? No doubt, if the kid is smart, he will learn all he can from KG, I understand he spends a good amount of time with the young guys now.

Anyway, I always loved Perk, but.......I 'm going with Steamer, who knows how much more he can learn and accomplish?

Hi Pete -- long time since I talked to you, hope all is well.

Rosalie

Perk.

And some may recall I wasn't sorry to see him go, either.

Can't even begin to compare an established NBA center with a first year sub when picking one to stick with going forward.

For me it's not even a discussion, although gyso's argument comes as close to selling me as you can get. I hope he doesn't start selling cars and call me; it'll be over quick.

Regards

Hi Rosalie,

All is well. Hope the same for you, so nice to have you back.

Pete

I voted for Steamer, but had to think first. I loved Perk when he was ours and wish him well (TA, too). He anchored the D, made the drivers pay, earned his lunch nearly every game, but his stone hands, three-second layups and wooden offense cost me two TVs as I tried to make the play for him in the living room.
Steamer hasn't broken any TVs yet, but I worry about his sore feet. Still, I think he has tremendous upside if the refs will let him play and he avoids ticky-tacky fouls. He's already a force on D when those long arms go up to alter shots, he owns a nice, almost unstoppable 15-foot jumper, passes well, and isn't afraid to go to the hole. Here's hoping! Hawksnest

One also has to factor in the fact that Perkins is making 7M+ a year and Steamer is not (700kish for this season).

If there is no clear cut advantage to one guy I would not be able to justify paying almost 10% of the team payroll or team times as much for Perkins vs Stiemsma.

For the money you might be able to get Stiemsma and a really solid guy off the bench instead of just Perkins. Something along the lines of Stiemsma + Green next season for the money Perkins costs.

Maybe not Green I just realized since he was set to make like 13M last year. On the other hand who knows if he can ask for that kind of money now.

Hawksnest,

He anchored the D, made the drivers pay, earned his lunch nearly every game, but his stone hands, three-second layups and wooden offense cost me two TVs as I tried to make the play for him in the living room.

Too funny!!!

gyso