How do you see the next two weeks?

Well we got out real strong to start. The first 5 games had many of us feeling 86 was come around again. Everything looked like it was working. We played smothering team d and pretty damn good O. The new parts seemed to be coming together seamlessly. Everyone was delighted by the grit and hustle of Shelden Williams.

Then we went to minny and sort of phoned in a win. The legs looked tired on D. a cagey euro lit us up for 24 points. We held the ball and took street ball shots on O. The extra pass went away.

Back to Boston where we ran into a good Suns team and then let them dictate the pace of the game and lost the first game of the year.

We fell in love with the 3 ball ...we quit playing team D. We got outhustled in our gym. A very talented but erratic player JRich just flat out ate our lunch. Nash buried us with a 3 ball late. We fought hard all night and were in the game late but couldn't get there.

The Suns punished us on the pick and pop all night. I thought some of those picks were moving but it don't change how you defend.

Then off to NJ to play one of the worst teams in the nba. A team who only has about 8 players due to injury. It seemed like the first half we were tired and I didn't see the second half but the guys pulled together and managed to win. Albeit in an ugly fashion.

Even Rondo looked a step slow in the 1rst half.

My thoughts are Doc will use this next stretch to practice and respond to some of the bad habits the club is forming. Doc had 8 games to look at his new talent and he is a great coach. I feel confident adjustments will be made.

However, I am let down that the guys I feel to some degree let go of that beautiful start. Defense to me is just effort and we should never get outhustled on a basketball court. I'd like to see more interior passing and just general inside play. I'd like to see better rebounding. I'd like to see less 3 balls. I'd like to see the extra pass. I'd like to see players (esp Perk and rondo) make free throws.

Looks like we have some work to do. What do you guys see in the teal leaves for the next two weeks?

Regards,

Jeb

I think you worry too much Jeb.

The Celtics are strong, talented, and destined for a deep playoff run. They are playing against the best players in the world and will not be able to blow people out on a nightly basis, so if that is the basis that we judge them on - we are in for a season full of second guessing.

They are 7-1. If anyone told you at the beginning of the year, we would be 7-1 after 8 games.... you would have taken it. It makes no difference how we got there, a win is a win.

They played a grueling first 12 days, and have certainly made mistakes...but Doc will right the ship....KG will continue getting healthy....Sheed and Daniels and House will find their spot playing with each other....Ray will find his shot....Perk and Rondo will continue to mature. All is well, RELAX bro.

Kleen

Well 7 and 1 is hard to argue. More than worryin i guess i am a bit bored today. It's Sunday and it's raining.

What do you think the problems were from Minny on and where should we make adjustments?

Any thoughts?

Jeb

Number one I think this team is still coming together and with a lack of time to practice, it is impossible to re-work problems with defensive rotations, switching assignments etc. I think that a more regular schedule of game, two days off to practice, another game - is going to greatly benefit them. You simply cannot teach this defensive system to people like Rasheed and Daniels in a pre-game shoot around - so I think having two days of practice tomorrow and Tuesday will be a great benefit.

Second, I think that while Doc keeping the starters minutes down in the pre-season and early in the year will be beneficial in the long run, it is hurting their flow a bit early on. Especially with KG and Ray Allen. Neither of them have really gotten into a good offensive flow in back to back games, but that will come.

Lastly, and this up to Doc to counter....I think they have started to fall for that common trap that they are so good they think they can just turn it on when necessary and win. Need to nip this one in the bud right away and get back to preaching that every team is capable on any given night.

They will be just fine....but some practice time, some rest, and better defensive rotations will right the ship.

I concur on the bench. It has helped the starters stay fresh but has slowed down our flow. These guys are still getting to know each other. I think practice will help as well. Doc should stick with it even if it cost us a few. Playing those guys with the game on the line will help them all grow. Esp. Shelden. Geeze Kleen we aint even got BBD right now.

Kleen what is your take on KG? He looks good to me but does not seem to have his lift just yet. I think he is having to by and large play his way into shape. To me he is def back but still not but about 85%

You cant simulate real game experience in practice or even the pre-season. People that may have been taking it a bit easy on him, are now moving him out of positoin - and he is drifting deeper and deeper out on the perimeter to avoid the contact and find a place he is comfortable - hence his shot is often coming up short.

When he gets a little stronger, he will be ready to battle down low again - and will be back to his 18ft and in range and he will be fine. Patience.

Kleen

Well one good thing with KG you know he's taking notes and when he is stronger he will flat punk some doodes.

Again seems like he is playin himself into shape. Knee seems ok. All in all a helluva good outlook.

Yes, the Celtics have shown some vulnerabilities the last few games, but I wouldn't worry too much about it. They had a compressed schedule (eight games in 13 days) that is tough anytime but can be particularly challenging at the start of the season when players aren't necessarily in the best shape. I think what you saw the last three games was just a tired bunch at the end of a schedule crunch. They have six games over the next two weeks, and 5-1 sounds like about right for those six games. They're probably pointing toward the Nov. 20 game against Orlando, and that's really the highlight of the next two weeks.

While a win at the beginning of the season counts as much as a win at the end, how well you're playing at the beginning doesn't mean squat compared to how well you're playing come playoff time. I think they're actually better off losing some games early so that they're not tempted to push themselves into a long winning streak. Streaks are great, but it can take a lot of energy to keep them going, and when they finally end, you can go through a rough patch, like last season when the Celtics went 2-7 after their 19-game winning streak. I think you're better off giving consistent effort throughout the majority of the season and accepting that you'll have off nights now and then rather than pushing too hard to win the game on those off nights and draining yourself in the long run. I think Popovich with the Spurs is the master of keeping regular season games in perspective and saving his team for the playoffs rather than pushing harder for playoff position.

Outside

Outside

Well said. I would rather lose a few but have some gas in the tank come playoff time.

What's your take on KG? What do you see in his play?

Jeb, I know the KG question was directed at Outside, but I'm bored so I thought I'd give my opinion!

I think I had unrealistic expectations for KG's return so I am a little disappointed. I don't know why, but I expected him to be playing more like KG by now. I'm not so concerned about his offense. It's been noted that he's taking that outside jumper just a couple feet outside of where he normally takes it. Whether this is because he's trying to avoid contact, I don't know. I'll have to watch that more closely. It doesn't seem like a spot where he would be taking heavy contact, and I'm not sure a couple feet closer to the hoop would make much of a difference in regards to getting banged around.

He seems tentative on defense, which is totally the opposite of what we have come to expect from him. I don't know if he's physically limited by his injury or if it's a confidence thing. He's playing way off his man as he doesn't want to get beat to the hoop and as a result guys are hitting jumpers over him. If a guy drives on him, he's not recovering and blocking the shot as is normally his M.O.

My hope is that these things will work themselves out as he gets back into shape, but I do worry that he's just older and has lost a step. I'd like to see him let out that inner beast a bit more, he really hasn't been too vocal or shown much emotion this year. Maybe he's waiting until his skills can match that intensity.

jeb65 wrote:Outside

Well said. I would rather lose a few but have some gas in the tank come playoff time.

What's your take on KG? What do you see in his play?

Jeb,

I haven't had much opportunity to see the Celts play this year, either pre-season or regular season. I'm in California, so we don't get that many Celtic games in the first place, and life's other obligations keep me from watching bball as much as I'd like.

From what I have seen, I'm hopeful that he's going to be fine. He doesn't seem to jump that well, but that could just be an indication of where he is in the recovery process. "Explosion" would be the last thing to come back completely, and if he does regain that, then I'd consider him 100% recovered physically. Even if he doesn't get it all back, he's still an all-star, and he's smart enough to adapt his game to changing physical abilities. Offensively, I've always considered him more of a finesse player, not a power player, and his length gives him such an advantage in the "finesse zone" 8-15 feet from the basket that he can get by quite successfully without his old vertical leap.

What encourages me most is his demeanor on the court. He seems aggressive, while someone still hampered by injury is typically tentative. To draw something of a parallel, I saw a play in the Patriots-Ravens game a few weeks back when Brady got bumped down low (one of the disputed penalty plays), and Brady immediately reacted by shifting all his weight to his good leg and lifting his surgical leg in the air to protect it. Brady's surgical leg wasn't in danger, but his immediate reaction to protect it showed that he lacked confidence in it. Again, I haven't seen the Celts that much, but I haven't seen any of that type of thing from Garnett.

In addition to not being tentative or unduly worried about his leg, I like what I seen defensively. As you know, his defensive attitude is one of his most valuable assets. While I don't consider him a power player offensively, I most certainly do defensively, and his defensive mindset and confidence seem the same to me. Very good sign.

Outside

It's interesting that KellyGreen's observations were almost the opposite of mine. That could very well be due to the fact that I haven't seen the Celtics play much at all. I'll do my best to see them play more in the near future.

Kelly, I'd be interested to know if your observations are based mainly on the last three games. The schedule had the Celtics playing eight games in 13 days. My guess is that the whole team was gassed the last three games, and a grueling stretch like that would be particularly taxing on Garnett considering these are his first games back. Let me know what you think.

Outside

Not to speak for Kelly but the last three games were worse for KG spec on D.

I think he just aint in game shape and my worries are not as dire as Kelly's.

I think Kevin.s fire is so hot that these guys that are beating him right now will get beat down the line cause KG will remember.

I dont think his confidence is quite there yet.


KellY?

Outside, my observations aren't only based on the past three games. Really they are based on pre-season to the present. He's looked really good at times, but even without seeing the games a quick look at his numbers will tell you that he's not playing like himself so far. His FG % is right around his average, but all other numbers are down. That in and of itself really isn't cause for worry, he's playing fewer minutes, but little things like his free throw shooting and his lower assist numbers seem to indicate that something is off. I don't know if it's mental or physical. Like I said, I think I may be expecting too much too soon, but he just doesn't seem like himself. I think part of his defensive dominance has a lot to do with him intimidating his opponent. I think players are testing him more than they might in the past knowing that he's coming off an injury. He just seems to be lacking the quickness and the confidence to play his brand of D.

Jeb, I hope what you said about KG's fire is true and I think if he gets back to 100%, or maybe even 90%, we will see people pay for beating him now. I'm just concerned that he may not get there. This may be one of those situations where I'm predicting something worse so I can be pleasantly surprised mid-way through the season though!

Kelly,

It really does take a while to get back from a leg injury and surgery. Based on what little I've seen, I'm not saying that he's recovered now. What I'm saying is that I've seen signs that he's going to be back eventually. Time will tell.

Outside, I hope you are right. I don't mean to sound all doom and gloom about it, it's mostly something that I'm concerned about but certainly not panicking over. Clearly we've done well in spite of it. 7-1 start is not too shabby.

Kelly

Dig this. We can win it with KG at 80% and nowhere near an allstar team.

Jeb

The Celtics completed there third Back to back series which is pretty uncommon.

There has been some issues with their defensive rotations and overall execution but at 7-1 who of us can really gripe about that. Through the end of the month there are several tough matchups beginning with the Jazz and the Hawks at home and we then have Indiana, Golden State, the magic, Knicks, Philly, Toronto and Miami. That looks to be s difficult stretch of games but there is only one back to back set of games.

I think an even more difficult stretch will be in December where I think we play 11 out of 14 games on the road.

The first 30 games of the season given the way the schedule has been designed is really brutal.

I think this is where the bench can play a decisive role in the fortunes of the team. I'm still not sure how Doc intends to divide up the minutes but I think it will serve the big picture well if the bench plays more minutes even when the game is close. I hope Doc does not automatically turn back to the starter every time the team hits a bad patch in the game.

dboss

Dboss

I concur the hottest fire makes the strongest steel. Leave em in with the game on the line. Esp Shelden. This will pay off even if we lose.

Jeb, I agree that we can still win it all with KG at 80%. We will win the championship as a team, not because of one individual player. It would certainly be easier with a healthy KG, but I don't think our championship aspirations hinge solely on him. I think we are deepest at the PF spot so I'm not worried about the team, just a little worried about KG. It's very early though. I'm not going to make a mountain out of a mole hill just yet!

Kleen says I worry too much. Maybe I infected you. Still we all see what we see and sometimes it's very different.

I see KG about 80 to 85% right now but think most of the prob is conditioning.

Jeb

Maybe kleen doesn't worry enough! JK. You are spot on when you say we all see what we see. Still, it's nice to have a place to voice our opinions and even be talked down off the ledge from time to time. The fact the nobody else seems concerned about KG tells me one of two things: 1) everyone else is in denial or 2) I'm just being paranoid.

Most likely it's the latter! Thanks for the conversation Jeb!

Kelly

Mos def. All the opinions help balance my thinking and everybody knows their stuff.

Hoop heaven!

Cleveland plays Orlando tomorrow.

CLE vs. ORL should be an interesting game. Supposedly CLE was built to beat ORL, but they certainly aren't playing well right now. I think ORL has some guys out with injuries, and I don't think Lewis is off his suspension yet. I still think ORL wins by a comfortable 12 pts. or so.