Plug-and-Play or Specialist?
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bobheckler
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Plug-and-Play or Specialist?
http://www.celticsblog.com/2012/9/14/3331538/christmas-vs-smith-plug-and-play-vs-specialist
Christmas vs. Smith, Plug-And-Play vs. Specialist
You're going to hear this term a lot from me in the coming weeks before training camp: "plug-and-play" players. They are guys that fit into any system because they can generate offense for themselves and for their teammates, finish at the rim or on the perimeter, and play defense. They're iPhones. They're Swiss Army knives. They're all-of-the-above.
For the last five years, Danny had surrounded the Big Four with more complimentary pieces rather than with these plug-and-play types. You need someone to hang around the perimeter and space out the court so KG can work the paint? Put in Eddie House for the occasional 3. You need a guy to play intense D on the other team's best scorer but not be relied on to provide anything offensively? Have Tony Allen guard Kobe. In a lot of ways, even Ray Allen and Kendrick Perkins were complimentary players too, guys with very specific skill sets that were less rounded than say Pierce, Garnett, and Rondo.
This off-season, however, was a departure from Danny's MO of finding specialists. Instead, he focused on these plug-and-play type players. With Jason Terry, Jeff Green, and Courtney Lee, you get an influx of guys that are threats all over the court, on defense and on offense. Maybe they can't shoot like Eddie House or defend like Tony Allen, but they're going to give you more at all facets of the game rather than just a few. And if we're assessing players like that all the way down to the 15th man on the roster, Dionte Christmas will win the camp battle over Jamar Smith (and Rob Kurz).
At this point of their careers, Dionte is just a more complete player than Jamar. In summer league play, Christmas averaged a robust 13.2 points, 5.3 rebounds, 3.1 assists, and 1.8 steals to Smith's 9.7-1.8-1.5-1.0 stat line. Most of Smith's shots came from behind the arc, where as Christmas scored from a variety of spots and went to the line more consistently. Dionte is also a bigger, more rugged defender and a more natural leader at the point guard position. We can qualify his performance by saying it was "just the summer league," but he's undeniably a baller, a plug-and-play guy that will find ways to contribute somewhere on the court.
After a game against the Magic, I wrote:
I'm not sure how it works in terms of summer league invites and any proprietary rights to players who aren't under contract by the team, by Dionte Christmas may have played himself into a camp invite today. He's been solid all week but today's 21-5-4 performance may have solidified a spot for Vegas and possibly training camp in October. He had one sick behind-the-back pass to Melo on the break that we'll see on summer league highlight reels whenever NBATV runs summer league highlight reels. He's another one of those players that fits the E`Twaun Moore/Kris Joseph mold: not necessarily a great athlete, but show's a keen understanding of the game and can score from anywhere on the floor.
He's been a fringe NBA player with appearances in summer leagues the last three years and has played professional in the Czech Republic, Greece, and Israel. He's got a great story and as much as I'd love to see him in training camp, realistically, he'd have a better shot at making on another team. With potentially five rookies and sophomores already on the roster, I doubt Danny uses another spot for another project.
Now, that was all before the trade for Courtney Lee that sent E`Twaun Moore, JaJuan Johnson, and Sean Williams to Houston and Sasha Pavlovic to Portland. But even with all that player movement, Dionte's goal to make the team is still an uphill battle. With five guards ahead of him (Rondo, Bradley, Lee, Terry, and Dooling), he's trying to make the Final 15 as a 6th guard. Ultimately, he won't be gutting out training camp to necessarily be a contributor this year. He needs to play the long game and impress Doc and Danny enough to stash him away in Maine and keep him in the Celtics system. Consider this: when the Celtics acquired Lee, they gave up three 2013 second-round draft picks; next summer, they'll only have their own first rounder. And outside of the Reverend, the Celtics don't have a pure back up point guard. Dooling's playing on a one-year veteran minimum and will be 33 by the end of season. This all has to be on Dionte's mind. He's toiled in international ball for years and at 25, this could be his last chance to make it in the NBA. If he can build on the potential that he showed in Orlando and Las Vegas, his contract could go from non-guaranteed to guaranteed and he could very well be a Celtic in 2013 as well.
For what it's worth, it looks like he's really embracing the opportunity. He's found a mentor in Jason Terry and is already getting comfortable with the Boston sports scene:
Dionte Christmas @Dchristmas22
Got my Redsox jacket on Reppin lol...still a phillies fan tho pic.twitter.com/njavdgxi
11 Sep 12
After taking in a game at Fenway, Christmas and Terry went back to Waltham for another late night workout in the basketball lab. It's great to see that he's not resting on his laurels. On October 30th, I'm sure he'll gladly trade in that Red Sox jacket for Celtics' green.
bob
My Note: I like this distinction: Plug-and-Play vs Specialist. I think it really brings into focus the different skill sets players have and what role they can play, which teams will covet them, which systems they will fit best in and which teams will cut them. It makes you appreciate Eddie House (not that we didn't already) while drooling over a player that can "do it all". Smith's challenge will be that Xmas can shoot too. Another Smith challenge is the same one Moore faced, Doc expects his guards to be able to play point too. Xmas's challenge is that we are loaded in the backcourt and we know how well Doc's system works with role players, especially a role player who can come in and go off like a firecracker. I've been a big Xmas fan and have effectively written off Smith. Maybe I've been too quick to judge.
Christmas vs. Smith, Plug-And-Play vs. Specialist
You're going to hear this term a lot from me in the coming weeks before training camp: "plug-and-play" players. They are guys that fit into any system because they can generate offense for themselves and for their teammates, finish at the rim or on the perimeter, and play defense. They're iPhones. They're Swiss Army knives. They're all-of-the-above.
For the last five years, Danny had surrounded the Big Four with more complimentary pieces rather than with these plug-and-play types. You need someone to hang around the perimeter and space out the court so KG can work the paint? Put in Eddie House for the occasional 3. You need a guy to play intense D on the other team's best scorer but not be relied on to provide anything offensively? Have Tony Allen guard Kobe. In a lot of ways, even Ray Allen and Kendrick Perkins were complimentary players too, guys with very specific skill sets that were less rounded than say Pierce, Garnett, and Rondo.
This off-season, however, was a departure from Danny's MO of finding specialists. Instead, he focused on these plug-and-play type players. With Jason Terry, Jeff Green, and Courtney Lee, you get an influx of guys that are threats all over the court, on defense and on offense. Maybe they can't shoot like Eddie House or defend like Tony Allen, but they're going to give you more at all facets of the game rather than just a few. And if we're assessing players like that all the way down to the 15th man on the roster, Dionte Christmas will win the camp battle over Jamar Smith (and Rob Kurz).
At this point of their careers, Dionte is just a more complete player than Jamar. In summer league play, Christmas averaged a robust 13.2 points, 5.3 rebounds, 3.1 assists, and 1.8 steals to Smith's 9.7-1.8-1.5-1.0 stat line. Most of Smith's shots came from behind the arc, where as Christmas scored from a variety of spots and went to the line more consistently. Dionte is also a bigger, more rugged defender and a more natural leader at the point guard position. We can qualify his performance by saying it was "just the summer league," but he's undeniably a baller, a plug-and-play guy that will find ways to contribute somewhere on the court.
After a game against the Magic, I wrote:
I'm not sure how it works in terms of summer league invites and any proprietary rights to players who aren't under contract by the team, by Dionte Christmas may have played himself into a camp invite today. He's been solid all week but today's 21-5-4 performance may have solidified a spot for Vegas and possibly training camp in October. He had one sick behind-the-back pass to Melo on the break that we'll see on summer league highlight reels whenever NBATV runs summer league highlight reels. He's another one of those players that fits the E`Twaun Moore/Kris Joseph mold: not necessarily a great athlete, but show's a keen understanding of the game and can score from anywhere on the floor.
He's been a fringe NBA player with appearances in summer leagues the last three years and has played professional in the Czech Republic, Greece, and Israel. He's got a great story and as much as I'd love to see him in training camp, realistically, he'd have a better shot at making on another team. With potentially five rookies and sophomores already on the roster, I doubt Danny uses another spot for another project.
Now, that was all before the trade for Courtney Lee that sent E`Twaun Moore, JaJuan Johnson, and Sean Williams to Houston and Sasha Pavlovic to Portland. But even with all that player movement, Dionte's goal to make the team is still an uphill battle. With five guards ahead of him (Rondo, Bradley, Lee, Terry, and Dooling), he's trying to make the Final 15 as a 6th guard. Ultimately, he won't be gutting out training camp to necessarily be a contributor this year. He needs to play the long game and impress Doc and Danny enough to stash him away in Maine and keep him in the Celtics system. Consider this: when the Celtics acquired Lee, they gave up three 2013 second-round draft picks; next summer, they'll only have their own first rounder. And outside of the Reverend, the Celtics don't have a pure back up point guard. Dooling's playing on a one-year veteran minimum and will be 33 by the end of season. This all has to be on Dionte's mind. He's toiled in international ball for years and at 25, this could be his last chance to make it in the NBA. If he can build on the potential that he showed in Orlando and Las Vegas, his contract could go from non-guaranteed to guaranteed and he could very well be a Celtic in 2013 as well.
For what it's worth, it looks like he's really embracing the opportunity. He's found a mentor in Jason Terry and is already getting comfortable with the Boston sports scene:
Dionte Christmas @Dchristmas22
Got my Redsox jacket on Reppin lol...still a phillies fan tho pic.twitter.com/njavdgxi
11 Sep 12
After taking in a game at Fenway, Christmas and Terry went back to Waltham for another late night workout in the basketball lab. It's great to see that he's not resting on his laurels. On October 30th, I'm sure he'll gladly trade in that Red Sox jacket for Celtics' green.
bob
My Note: I like this distinction: Plug-and-Play vs Specialist. I think it really brings into focus the different skill sets players have and what role they can play, which teams will covet them, which systems they will fit best in and which teams will cut them. It makes you appreciate Eddie House (not that we didn't already) while drooling over a player that can "do it all". Smith's challenge will be that Xmas can shoot too. Another Smith challenge is the same one Moore faced, Doc expects his guards to be able to play point too. Xmas's challenge is that we are loaded in the backcourt and we know how well Doc's system works with role players, especially a role player who can come in and go off like a firecracker. I've been a big Xmas fan and have effectively written off Smith. Maybe I've been too quick to judge.
bobheckler- Posts : 62620
Join date : 2009-10-28
Re: Plug-and-Play or Specialist?
I decided to put this here for two reasons: 1) I'm not convinced Jamar Smith deserves his own thread (yet) and 2) the "yet". As I said above, maybe I've been too quick to write this kid off. If lights out shooting is what Doc is looking for, he could (possibly) beat out Xmas for the last slot.
http://celticsgreen.blogspot.com/2012/09/player-profiles-jamar-smith.html
6'3"
185 lbs
25 years old
Jamar Smith earned 4 varsity letters at Richwoods High School in Peoria, Illinois. He led the Mid-State 6 Conference in scoring as both a junior and a senior. He shot nearly 46 percent from 3-point range his senior year and averaged 23.1 points per game. He was first-team All-State He was Associated Press second-team All-State. He led Richwoods to a 21-8 record and the IHSA sectional final during his senior season. He finished his Richwoods career with 1,525 points.
After high school, Jamar went on to the University of Illinois. In his freshman season, he was the Illini's first guard off the bench and saw action in 32 of 33 games. Despite playing 19.2 minutes per game, he was just fifth on the team in scoring, averaging 8.0 points per game but still led the Big Ten in 3-point field goal percentage at 48.2 percent. In his sophomore campaign, he appeared in 21 games, starting 6 of them. He was fourth on the team in scoring, averaging 8.1 points per game. He missed six games early in the season due to an ankle injury and had a major upheaval in his life midway through the season.
Once he got to college, he enjoyed the college lifestyle a little too much and developed a drinking problem. On February 12, 2007, Smith's world came crashing down. He was playing a drinking game with Brian Carlwell, a teammate on the Illini team and several girls from the same apartment complex. He and Carlwell left the party with Jamar driving, and there was an ugly car accident in which the heavily intoxicated Smith plowed his grandparents' 1996 Lexus into a tree with Carlwell in the passenger seat.
Smith returned to the apartment after the accident with Carlwell unconscious in the car. Smith believed his teammate was dead. Still heavily intoxicated, he began throwing things and tried to kill himself at one point. The next day, he found out that his teammate was in an induced coma. He spent 15 days in the Champaign County Jail, was sentenced to 100 hours of community service, fined $850 and was also put into counseling. He also had to live with the memory of nearly killing himself and his teammate. Carlwell did eventually recover and the two remain friends.
Smith was suspended for the remainder of the 2007 season and the suspension lasted through the 2008 season Just months before he was to return to practice with the team, a police officer caught him outside a bar with alcohol on his breath, which was a violation of his two-year probation. It resulted in his dismissal from the team. As he was returning home with his mother, thinking of his 2 year old son made him admit he had a problem, seek help for it, and check into a residential treatment facility that turned his life around.
At the treatment facility, he became close with Chuck, who was a year younger and in the facility for drug treatment. Chuck was released before Jamar and when Jamar was released, he learned that his friend Chuck was found dead in his garage of an overdose. That was Smith's second and biggest wake up call. Jamar knew that he needed to get away from his home town and enrolled at Southern Indiana to play basketball there. The fall semester was already underway at Southern Indiana but Smith moved from Peoria to Evansville, Indiana into an apartment and lived by himself with his dog. He got a job at a grocery store and would work there 7 hours a day and then would spend 3 hours a day shooting and working on his game while his future teammates practiced.
On Dec. 30, 2008 Smith played in his first game in nearly 2 years. He made just 1-of-7 shots from long range and finished with 11 points. As he struggled to regain his game, he was also heckled in almost every arena he played in as a result of having to wear and ankle bracelet that would indicate if he had any alcohol to drink. He accepted the heckling as a result of his own poor decisions and just kept working. His shot returned to him and he finished the season averaging 18.5 points and shooting 48% from beyond the arc in 21 games. His final season at Southern Indiana, he averaged 21.6 points, 4.1 rebounds, 3.7 assists, 1.2 steals and shot 42.7% from beyond the arc.
Jamar went undrafted in the 2010 NBA draft. He was invited to the Celtics training camp in 2010 but was released before the season. He played the 2010-11 season with the Celtics' D-League affiliate, the Maine Red Claws. He played in 48 games, starting 45 of those games. He averaged 13.6 points, 2.8 rebounds, 5.0 assists and shot 46.7% from the field and 43.2% from long distance.
In April of 2011, he played one game for Guaiqueries de Margarita in Venezuela and scored 5 points. He played the 2011-12 season with BK Prostejov Czech Republic, averaging 14.9 points, 3.1 rebounds, and 2.4 assists while shooting 57.5% from the field.
He is very open about the mistakes of his past. He has learned from them and has moved past them. He is chasing his dream of playing in the NBA and staying fully sober. His coach at Southern Indiana had this to say about him, "In my 23 years in Division II, I’ve never seen anyone as good as Jamar Smith." He will be fighting with Kris Joseph and Dionte Christmas for the 15th spot on the team. If he doesn't make the Celtics roster, it is possible that he may play on the Red Claws again, and wait for his chance to make it in the NBA.
bob
.
http://celticsgreen.blogspot.com/2012/09/player-profiles-jamar-smith.html
6'3"
185 lbs
25 years old
Jamar Smith earned 4 varsity letters at Richwoods High School in Peoria, Illinois. He led the Mid-State 6 Conference in scoring as both a junior and a senior. He shot nearly 46 percent from 3-point range his senior year and averaged 23.1 points per game. He was first-team All-State He was Associated Press second-team All-State. He led Richwoods to a 21-8 record and the IHSA sectional final during his senior season. He finished his Richwoods career with 1,525 points.
After high school, Jamar went on to the University of Illinois. In his freshman season, he was the Illini's first guard off the bench and saw action in 32 of 33 games. Despite playing 19.2 minutes per game, he was just fifth on the team in scoring, averaging 8.0 points per game but still led the Big Ten in 3-point field goal percentage at 48.2 percent. In his sophomore campaign, he appeared in 21 games, starting 6 of them. He was fourth on the team in scoring, averaging 8.1 points per game. He missed six games early in the season due to an ankle injury and had a major upheaval in his life midway through the season.
Once he got to college, he enjoyed the college lifestyle a little too much and developed a drinking problem. On February 12, 2007, Smith's world came crashing down. He was playing a drinking game with Brian Carlwell, a teammate on the Illini team and several girls from the same apartment complex. He and Carlwell left the party with Jamar driving, and there was an ugly car accident in which the heavily intoxicated Smith plowed his grandparents' 1996 Lexus into a tree with Carlwell in the passenger seat.
Smith returned to the apartment after the accident with Carlwell unconscious in the car. Smith believed his teammate was dead. Still heavily intoxicated, he began throwing things and tried to kill himself at one point. The next day, he found out that his teammate was in an induced coma. He spent 15 days in the Champaign County Jail, was sentenced to 100 hours of community service, fined $850 and was also put into counseling. He also had to live with the memory of nearly killing himself and his teammate. Carlwell did eventually recover and the two remain friends.
Smith was suspended for the remainder of the 2007 season and the suspension lasted through the 2008 season Just months before he was to return to practice with the team, a police officer caught him outside a bar with alcohol on his breath, which was a violation of his two-year probation. It resulted in his dismissal from the team. As he was returning home with his mother, thinking of his 2 year old son made him admit he had a problem, seek help for it, and check into a residential treatment facility that turned his life around.
At the treatment facility, he became close with Chuck, who was a year younger and in the facility for drug treatment. Chuck was released before Jamar and when Jamar was released, he learned that his friend Chuck was found dead in his garage of an overdose. That was Smith's second and biggest wake up call. Jamar knew that he needed to get away from his home town and enrolled at Southern Indiana to play basketball there. The fall semester was already underway at Southern Indiana but Smith moved from Peoria to Evansville, Indiana into an apartment and lived by himself with his dog. He got a job at a grocery store and would work there 7 hours a day and then would spend 3 hours a day shooting and working on his game while his future teammates practiced.
On Dec. 30, 2008 Smith played in his first game in nearly 2 years. He made just 1-of-7 shots from long range and finished with 11 points. As he struggled to regain his game, he was also heckled in almost every arena he played in as a result of having to wear and ankle bracelet that would indicate if he had any alcohol to drink. He accepted the heckling as a result of his own poor decisions and just kept working. His shot returned to him and he finished the season averaging 18.5 points and shooting 48% from beyond the arc in 21 games. His final season at Southern Indiana, he averaged 21.6 points, 4.1 rebounds, 3.7 assists, 1.2 steals and shot 42.7% from beyond the arc.
Jamar went undrafted in the 2010 NBA draft. He was invited to the Celtics training camp in 2010 but was released before the season. He played the 2010-11 season with the Celtics' D-League affiliate, the Maine Red Claws. He played in 48 games, starting 45 of those games. He averaged 13.6 points, 2.8 rebounds, 5.0 assists and shot 46.7% from the field and 43.2% from long distance.
In April of 2011, he played one game for Guaiqueries de Margarita in Venezuela and scored 5 points. He played the 2011-12 season with BK Prostejov Czech Republic, averaging 14.9 points, 3.1 rebounds, and 2.4 assists while shooting 57.5% from the field.
He is very open about the mistakes of his past. He has learned from them and has moved past them. He is chasing his dream of playing in the NBA and staying fully sober. His coach at Southern Indiana had this to say about him, "In my 23 years in Division II, I’ve never seen anyone as good as Jamar Smith." He will be fighting with Kris Joseph and Dionte Christmas for the 15th spot on the team. If he doesn't make the Celtics roster, it is possible that he may play on the Red Claws again, and wait for his chance to make it in the NBA.
bob
.
bobheckler- Posts : 62620
Join date : 2009-10-28
Re: Plug-and-Play or Specialist?
Bob
Couple things I wonder about. We were using an ankle alcohol detector on some people I deal with but had a terrible time with false positives, just walking into a hospital would set it off. As for drug/alcohol treatment goes without saying that it will not begin to work unless you want it too.
Can he make the final roster spot??? On lights out shooting alone?? Think he will have to shoot out of his mind in the preseason to beat out anyone. Who knows? Certainly has overcome a lot of adversity and unfortunately most of that was self inflicted, but if he's been on the straight and narrow for nearly 4 years now that speaks a lot of his desire to be and remain sober. Sort of hard not to root for the kid.....perhaps he will make it, if not here on another team.
beat
Couple things I wonder about. We were using an ankle alcohol detector on some people I deal with but had a terrible time with false positives, just walking into a hospital would set it off. As for drug/alcohol treatment goes without saying that it will not begin to work unless you want it too.
Can he make the final roster spot??? On lights out shooting alone?? Think he will have to shoot out of his mind in the preseason to beat out anyone. Who knows? Certainly has overcome a lot of adversity and unfortunately most of that was self inflicted, but if he's been on the straight and narrow for nearly 4 years now that speaks a lot of his desire to be and remain sober. Sort of hard not to root for the kid.....perhaps he will make it, if not here on another team.
beat
beat- Posts : 7032
Join date : 2009-10-13
Age : 71
Re: Plug-and-Play or Specialist?
beat wrote:Bob
Couple things I wonder about. We were using an ankle alcohol detector on some people I deal with but had a terrible time with false positives, just walking into a hospital would set it off. As for drug/alcohol treatment goes without saying that it will not begin to work unless you want it too.
Can he make the final roster spot??? On lights out shooting alone?? Think he will have to shoot out of his mind in the preseason to beat out anyone. Who knows? Certainly has overcome a lot of adversity and unfortunately most of that was self inflicted, but if he's been on the straight and narrow for nearly 4 years now that speaks a lot of his desire to be and remain sober. Sort of hard not to root for the kid.....perhaps he will make it, if not here on another team.
beat
beat,
False positives are especially bad because, unless and until those incidences are recognized and taken into account, they effectively convict an innocent person (your example of someone simply walking into a hospital being a great example) who is already living under a cloud of suspicion (that's why they're wearing the ankle bracelet in the first place). I suppose it's a much better option than locking them up, both from their perspective as well as the taxpayers', but they still are far from perfect. We forget that these crazy kids were kids just like us, except that they were living gods on campus, with everybody wanting to party with them and be seen with them. That's powerful medicine for a teenager, many of whom pay greater attention to peer pressure and flattery than adults do. Sometimes, a little bounce off the bottom is good for the soul and personal development and shouldn't be seen as an indelible character flaw unless they can't break free.
I'm rooting for Xmas, I like his all-round game, but I keep thinking back to Eddie House and what he brought us. Not a good playmaker or ballhandler, nor a good defender but damn if he couldn't drain clutch 3s like they were 1st quarter layups! I'm trying to be more open-minded about Jamar Smith than I have been. I certainly don't want to get too far down on him, since he could end up in green and that makes him one of mine.
If what Forsberg is saying is right, he's not missing in these informal workouts. That will open Doc's eyes a bit. It's opening mine, especially since I didn't see that in summer league. Another good reason not to put too much weight on summer league.
bob
.
bobheckler- Posts : 62620
Join date : 2009-10-28
Re: Plug-and-Play or Specialist?
Bob
Even today I am dealing with a mess regarding a failed drug test. Person is taking a prescribed drug. Has tested positive for a controlled substance. Claims this is because of drug X, and I am told on one end from "professionals" that the positive test is a result of the new script and on the other hand from "professionals" that the drug will NOT test positive for the same substance.
Waiting for a more quantitative test but even then does the new test prove or disprove something that was apparently in her system a month ago?
Those ankle alcohol units we used were so usless, that we don't even use them any more instead if we think someone is drinking ( that are not suppose to be) they are brought in for a 90 hour (alcohol) urine screen is done.
Certainly Smith is to be commended for his dilligence during the past 3+ years. The hole you climb out of is a whole lot steeper than the one you fell in. I usually tell my kids that as long as it took you to get to where you are (on the negative side) it will take youtwice as long to get back to where you were before the downfall.
Smith is 25 now, obviously he has a kid that must be 7-8 now. This might be his last chance. How many guys make the NBA for the first time once they get past 25 years old? Betcha you can count them on your fingers... and if need be a toe or two.
You mentioned House, he sure could light it up and fashioned a pretty nice career as a virtual one trick pony.
In the bigger picture though gotta think what is best for MY team. Guess we can wait and see what a little preseason does but certainly the top brass are making/taking notes............wonder if by any strange chance DA or Doc ever look at our ramblings on here for their amusment or entertainment. If so caution, contents may vary by container.
beat
Even today I am dealing with a mess regarding a failed drug test. Person is taking a prescribed drug. Has tested positive for a controlled substance. Claims this is because of drug X, and I am told on one end from "professionals" that the positive test is a result of the new script and on the other hand from "professionals" that the drug will NOT test positive for the same substance.
Waiting for a more quantitative test but even then does the new test prove or disprove something that was apparently in her system a month ago?
Those ankle alcohol units we used were so usless, that we don't even use them any more instead if we think someone is drinking ( that are not suppose to be) they are brought in for a 90 hour (alcohol) urine screen is done.
Certainly Smith is to be commended for his dilligence during the past 3+ years. The hole you climb out of is a whole lot steeper than the one you fell in. I usually tell my kids that as long as it took you to get to where you are (on the negative side) it will take youtwice as long to get back to where you were before the downfall.
Smith is 25 now, obviously he has a kid that must be 7-8 now. This might be his last chance. How many guys make the NBA for the first time once they get past 25 years old? Betcha you can count them on your fingers... and if need be a toe or two.
You mentioned House, he sure could light it up and fashioned a pretty nice career as a virtual one trick pony.
In the bigger picture though gotta think what is best for MY team. Guess we can wait and see what a little preseason does but certainly the top brass are making/taking notes............wonder if by any strange chance DA or Doc ever look at our ramblings on here for their amusment or entertainment. If so caution, contents may vary by container.
beat
beat- Posts : 7032
Join date : 2009-10-13
Age : 71
Re: Plug-and-Play or Specialist?
beat wrote:Bob
Even today I am dealing with a mess regarding a failed drug test. Person is taking a prescribed drug. Has tested positive for a controlled substance. Claims this is because of drug X, and I am told on one end from "professionals" that the positive test is a result of the new script and on the other hand from "professionals" that the drug will NOT test positive for the same substance.
Waiting for a more quantitative test but even then does the new test prove or disprove something that was apparently in her system a month ago?
Those ankle alcohol units we used were so usless, that we don't even use them any more instead if we think someone is drinking ( that are not suppose to be) they are brought in for a 90 hour (alcohol) urine screen is done.
Certainly Smith is to be commended for his dilligence during the past 3+ years. The hole you climb out of is a whole lot steeper than the one you fell in. I usually tell my kids that as long as it took you to get to where you are (on the negative side) it will take youtwice as long to get back to where you were before the downfall.
Smith is 25 now, obviously he has a kid that must be 7-8 now. This might be his last chance. How many guys make the NBA for the first time once they get past 25 years old? Betcha you can count them on your fingers... and if need be a toe or two.
You mentioned House, he sure could light it up and fashioned a pretty nice career as a virtual one trick pony.
In the bigger picture though gotta think what is best for MY team. Guess we can wait and see what a little preseason does but certainly the top brass are making/taking notes............wonder if by any strange chance DA or Doc ever look at our ramblings on here for their amusment or entertainment. If so caution, contents may vary by container.
beat
beat,
It must be tough. You don't want to be too easy on them, after all they're in your custody for a reason, and yet you don't want to accuse them of stuff that is easily disputable. I wonder why better tests aren't performed on things like those ankle bracelets before the county/city/etc spent $ to buy a boatload of them?
Other than Steamer? I'm not sure I can come up with any. Rodman was 24 when he started with Detroit as a walk-on, so there's nothing intrinsically wrong with a late start. In fact, it could be argued that a few years in Europe or D-league is good for players like Xmas, Steamer, Smith.
If Danny or Doc do read the posts here they haven't private messaged or confided in me.
bob
.
bobheckler- Posts : 62620
Join date : 2009-10-28
Re: Plug-and-Play or Specialist?
Hi,
I'd say go with plug-n-play. The reasoning for that is this.
There's no such thing as a very deep bench. Look what happened with Celtics recently. They were staffed with 5s - at the end of the season they had only one standing; they were staffed with wings - in the playoffs no one showed up healthy.
So, I think Doc will rather rely on someone who can plug 2 holes than on someone better but who's able to plug only 1 hole. Kind of.
Also, I think they've already got 2 very good outside shooters (CL and JT).
AK
I'd say go with plug-n-play. The reasoning for that is this.
There's no such thing as a very deep bench. Look what happened with Celtics recently. They were staffed with 5s - at the end of the season they had only one standing; they were staffed with wings - in the playoffs no one showed up healthy.
So, I think Doc will rather rely on someone who can plug 2 holes than on someone better but who's able to plug only 1 hole. Kind of.
Also, I think they've already got 2 very good outside shooters (CL and JT).
AK
sinus007- Posts : 2652
Join date : 2009-10-22
Re: Plug-and-Play or Specialist?
Bob
there is a lot more to the story... but I don't feel like being Paul Harvey.....suffice to say I have much more than disputable tests to take to court next month.
Still with limited slots available each year, is 2-3 per team stretching it too much that makes perhaps 60+ new players total. That seems a bit high to me actually but even then perhaps a third are no brainers that will make a roster, the remainder.... lets go to the crap table cause its a crap shoot.
Even on our team we have our 3 picks, Christmas and Smith, plus insert names here, vying for apparently 4 slots. An unfortunate injury might make this matter moot.
Personally I's take a player that can do multiple things OK vs the player that is lights out good at something, but like the weather I can change my mind.
Man do we ever need something to happen so we can discuss it, 2 weeks is too dam long to wait. How the heck did we survive last season with the lockout??
beat
there is a lot more to the story... but I don't feel like being Paul Harvey.....suffice to say I have much more than disputable tests to take to court next month.
Still with limited slots available each year, is 2-3 per team stretching it too much that makes perhaps 60+ new players total. That seems a bit high to me actually but even then perhaps a third are no brainers that will make a roster, the remainder.... lets go to the crap table cause its a crap shoot.
Even on our team we have our 3 picks, Christmas and Smith, plus insert names here, vying for apparently 4 slots. An unfortunate injury might make this matter moot.
Personally I's take a player that can do multiple things OK vs the player that is lights out good at something, but like the weather I can change my mind.
Man do we ever need something to happen so we can discuss it, 2 weeks is too dam long to wait. How the heck did we survive last season with the lockout??
beat
beat- Posts : 7032
Join date : 2009-10-13
Age : 71
Re: Plug-and-Play or Specialist?
Beat and Bob,
On many occasions, I've written about Red Auerbach's penchant for players who could fill a specialist role superbly. However, that's not the entire story. They also had to be proficient in other important areas.
Russell could easily have averaged 20-25 ppg if he had been called upon to do so, just on pick-and-rolls alone.
K.C. Jones was a defensive specialist (hear that Avery), but he could also hit the jumper, was a more-than-adequate ball distributor, and executed the break beautifully (arguably fewer dribbles per transition than when even The Cooz was playing).
Sam was far more than a jump shooter. He and K.C. got their starts with the Celtics as a defensively disruptive duo. Sam also played some PG in school, and he averaged 6.4 rebounds per 36 minutes in his pro career.
Even The Cooz was vastly more than the best playmaker of all time. He averaged 18.4 ppg and 5.2 rebounds per game over his career (Rondo to date = 4.4).
Satch always drew the tough defensive challenge, but he also contributed 14 points and nine rebounds per 36 minutes.
You could go down the rosters of those teams and seldom find someone who was only a specialist. And I haven't even mentioned Ramsey and Havlicek, who were jacks of all trades.
That's one reason I'm so excited about this season's team. There aren't any positions in which they trade off a major specialty for a serious weakness. There are questions, to be sure. Will Bradley becomes sufficiently consistent offensively to complement his defensive skills? Will Bass become more of a rebounder to complement his jumper and hops? Will Pierce still be able to cut it in the Celtics' defensive system while remaining a major offensive threat? Will the defense and ball distribution skills of Terry be sufficient to complement his offensive spurts? You could go on and on.
But all of those questions combine to form the potential for an intrigue that hasn't accompanied the Celtics for years.
Sam
On many occasions, I've written about Red Auerbach's penchant for players who could fill a specialist role superbly. However, that's not the entire story. They also had to be proficient in other important areas.
Russell could easily have averaged 20-25 ppg if he had been called upon to do so, just on pick-and-rolls alone.
K.C. Jones was a defensive specialist (hear that Avery), but he could also hit the jumper, was a more-than-adequate ball distributor, and executed the break beautifully (arguably fewer dribbles per transition than when even The Cooz was playing).
Sam was far more than a jump shooter. He and K.C. got their starts with the Celtics as a defensively disruptive duo. Sam also played some PG in school, and he averaged 6.4 rebounds per 36 minutes in his pro career.
Even The Cooz was vastly more than the best playmaker of all time. He averaged 18.4 ppg and 5.2 rebounds per game over his career (Rondo to date = 4.4).
Satch always drew the tough defensive challenge, but he also contributed 14 points and nine rebounds per 36 minutes.
You could go down the rosters of those teams and seldom find someone who was only a specialist. And I haven't even mentioned Ramsey and Havlicek, who were jacks of all trades.
That's one reason I'm so excited about this season's team. There aren't any positions in which they trade off a major specialty for a serious weakness. There are questions, to be sure. Will Bradley becomes sufficiently consistent offensively to complement his defensive skills? Will Bass become more of a rebounder to complement his jumper and hops? Will Pierce still be able to cut it in the Celtics' defensive system while remaining a major offensive threat? Will the defense and ball distribution skills of Terry be sufficient to complement his offensive spurts? You could go on and on.
But all of those questions combine to form the potential for an intrigue that hasn't accompanied the Celtics for years.
Sam
Re: Plug-and-Play or Specialist?
With all of this information, I find myself now pulling for Smith. When I first heard they had signed him, I asked "who the heck is HE"?
I am a sucker for the underdog...been down that road in my lifetime with people close to me. They (he) not only succeeded but became a union president and held down a good job for 32 years. Life was not easy for him either, so, I find myself drawn to Smith's story. If his head is in the right place and he puts forth all the energy he has, he has just as good a spot on this team as any.
Remember, if we had a "Plug and Play" player last year to just come in and hit a bunch of shots, those dry spells would not have existed.
Great story Bob, and Beat, I know exactly where you are coming from.
My daughter is a social worker working for a hospital for substance abuse.
Tough, tough job.
Rosalie
I am a sucker for the underdog...been down that road in my lifetime with people close to me. They (he) not only succeeded but became a union president and held down a good job for 32 years. Life was not easy for him either, so, I find myself drawn to Smith's story. If his head is in the right place and he puts forth all the energy he has, he has just as good a spot on this team as any.
Remember, if we had a "Plug and Play" player last year to just come in and hit a bunch of shots, those dry spells would not have existed.
Great story Bob, and Beat, I know exactly where you are coming from.
My daughter is a social worker working for a hospital for substance abuse.
Tough, tough job.
Rosalie
RosalieTCeltics- Posts : 41267
Join date : 2009-10-17
Age : 77
Re: Plug-and-Play or Specialist?
Rosalie,
It's not McLean is it? We're looking into that right now for a friend who is in bad need of an alcoholic intervention.
Sam
It's not McLean is it? We're looking into that right now for a friend who is in bad need of an alcoholic intervention.
Sam
Re: Plug-and-Play or Specialist?
No she works at a walk in, Cambridge Health Alliance. They may do some in house intervention, they are affiliated with Somerville Hospital.
It is a tough job, same people week in and week out, coming in to keep their appointments so that the courts won't get after them and they can get their prescriptions. She has been doing this for toooooo long. She is a constant learner though, took certification classes in yoga and teaches sometimes at night as a fill in, and a certification class in nutrition, which is where she would like to channel her future. She's a hard worker though, and, with these times it is tough to walk away from a job that pays for her insurance and is a decent salary. It gives her the opportunity to do some of these other things on the side.
It is really hard these days to get people into programs and hospitals, the funding for alot of this has dried up and alot of the places have closed, certainly not for lack of patients, we are living in tough times.
Rosalie
It is a tough job, same people week in and week out, coming in to keep their appointments so that the courts won't get after them and they can get their prescriptions. She has been doing this for toooooo long. She is a constant learner though, took certification classes in yoga and teaches sometimes at night as a fill in, and a certification class in nutrition, which is where she would like to channel her future. She's a hard worker though, and, with these times it is tough to walk away from a job that pays for her insurance and is a decent salary. It gives her the opportunity to do some of these other things on the side.
It is really hard these days to get people into programs and hospitals, the funding for alot of this has dried up and alot of the places have closed, certainly not for lack of patients, we are living in tough times.
Rosalie
RosalieTCeltics- Posts : 41267
Join date : 2009-10-17
Age : 77
Re: Plug-and-Play or Specialist?
RosalieTCeltics wrote:With all of this information, I find myself now pulling for Smith. When I first heard they had signed him, I asked "who the heck is HE"?
I am a sucker for the underdog...been down that road in my lifetime with people close to me. They (he) not only succeeded but became a union president and held down a good job for 32 years. Life was not easy for him either, so, I find myself drawn to Smith's story. If his head is in the right place and he puts forth all the energy he has, he has just as good a spot on this team as any.
Remember, if we had a "Plug and Play" player last year to just come in and hit a bunch of shots, those dry spells would not have existed.
Great story Bob, and Beat, I know exactly where you are coming from.
My daughter is a social worker working for a hospital for substance abuse.
Tough, tough job.
Rosalie
rosalie,
My sister is a social worker at a mental health clinic. I always tell her she's a stronger person than me. Some of those people are legitimately crazy and dangerous. Men who are seeing her because they threatened their wives with a violent death due to a mental instability, stuff like that. It scares me, but stimulates her. Personally, if stimulation is what she searches for I'd prefer she get into chocolate or jogging or anything where her passion doesn't put her at such risk. At least she's moved to a new company/facility in a nice neighborhood. She used to work for Catholic Charities in a not so nice neighborhood and Catholic Charities were not very charitable towards their employees, and that's putting it charitably. Honestly, the inmates ran the facility, they just had advanced degrees. I've never met a more neurotic bunch (just my lay opinion, NOT a clinical diagnosis), and that's just the staff. Where she works now respects and honors the service she provides and doesn't just want to ride her like a horse until she comes up lame and then shoot her.
bob
bobheckler- Posts : 62620
Join date : 2009-10-28
Re: Plug-and-Play or Specialist?
It's amazing Bob, my niece ran the drunk driving school at the Metropolitan State hospital here. She did it for a couple of years, she then told my husband, her uncle, that she just couldn't do it anymore. The same people over and over again, drunk driving, coming there because it was court mandated, and then back on the roads to do it again.
She quit, bought a little consignment shop where she lived, and is quite happy now. She and her family moved to Scituate, right on the water, she opened another shop and lives there now quite happy with her decision. No looking back.
Rosalie
She quit, bought a little consignment shop where she lived, and is quite happy now. She and her family moved to Scituate, right on the water, she opened another shop and lives there now quite happy with her decision. No looking back.
Rosalie
RosalieTCeltics- Posts : 41267
Join date : 2009-10-17
Age : 77
Re: Plug-and-Play or Specialist?
Sam, Regarding alcoholism, AA is still the best help long term for anyone willing to commit to the program. One useful herbal tip: 50% of rats bred to be alcoholic avoid alcohol altogether and prefer water when the herb pueraria root (kudzu) is added to their diet. I use it with my patients, and it does help to reduce cravings for alcohol. The Chinese name is Ge Gen, and it is available from Chinese herbal stores or licensed acupuncturists.
Having said that, there's no magic cure, and alcoholism is such a tough disease. I strongly recommend Al-Anon for family members.
Having said that, there's no magic cure, and alcoholism is such a tough disease. I strongly recommend Al-Anon for family members.
Re: Plug-and-Play or Specialist?
Bob and Rosalie, Regarding alcoholism, I recommend the recent film "Being Flynn" with Robert DeNiro and Paul Dano. True story, set in Boston. Flynn is a friend of my older son. Very moving and provides a great deal of insight.
Re: Plug-and-Play or Specialist?
W,
Thanks for the tip. I have found a good Chinese herbal store in Boston's Chinatown and was there just a week ago to get a refill of herbs that Cowens recommended to me. (Thanks again, Cow.) The writing on the package is entirely in Chinese, so I asked the man behind the store counter what the name is. He replied, "We just call them white pills." So much for my Chinese lesson.
It appears that the six of us in this 28-year-old's support group (but not including the 28-year-old) will be attending some Al-Anon meetings to get a better feeling of what to do next and—most important—how to persuade this obstinate guy to make a commitment to better health. He's usually drunk by 6:00 in the evening; and, when he goes out to eat, he orders three beers at a time. He's been married only a month. They lived together two years, and NOW his wife can't stand his drinking. We're all wondering why the heck she didn't notice anything during those two years. Perhaps she engaged in the most stupid reality game of all time—hoping that marriage would change him.
It's likely that all six of us will attend one meeting together (perhaps at McLean hospital), thereafter attending meetings that are geographically convenience to each of us. We'll use email and occasional face-to-face meetings to share our insights, and then (I hope sooner rather than later for the 28-year-old's sake) we'll formulate an action strategy. The whole thing is complicated by the fact that two of the six support people will be his divorced parents who are barely on speaking terms. I guess no situation is anywhere close to ideal where alcoholism is involved.
Sam
Thanks for the tip. I have found a good Chinese herbal store in Boston's Chinatown and was there just a week ago to get a refill of herbs that Cowens recommended to me. (Thanks again, Cow.) The writing on the package is entirely in Chinese, so I asked the man behind the store counter what the name is. He replied, "We just call them white pills." So much for my Chinese lesson.
It appears that the six of us in this 28-year-old's support group (but not including the 28-year-old) will be attending some Al-Anon meetings to get a better feeling of what to do next and—most important—how to persuade this obstinate guy to make a commitment to better health. He's usually drunk by 6:00 in the evening; and, when he goes out to eat, he orders three beers at a time. He's been married only a month. They lived together two years, and NOW his wife can't stand his drinking. We're all wondering why the heck she didn't notice anything during those two years. Perhaps she engaged in the most stupid reality game of all time—hoping that marriage would change him.
It's likely that all six of us will attend one meeting together (perhaps at McLean hospital), thereafter attending meetings that are geographically convenience to each of us. We'll use email and occasional face-to-face meetings to share our insights, and then (I hope sooner rather than later for the 28-year-old's sake) we'll formulate an action strategy. The whole thing is complicated by the fact that two of the six support people will be his divorced parents who are barely on speaking terms. I guess no situation is anywhere close to ideal where alcoholism is involved.
Sam
Re: Plug-and-Play or Specialist?
Al-Anon teaches the three C's, that we didn't Cause another's alcoholism, can't Cure it, and can't Control it. But we can contribute to it. Our best shot is to develop the peace of mind (sanity) in our own lives so we won't be thrown off by another's insanity and won't contribute to it. Having that sanity in our own lives is often the best stimulus for another to commit to the path of recovery.
Re: Plug-and-Play or Specialist?
W,
Thanks for the amplification. All six of us in the support group are babes in the woods on this thing.
Sam
Thanks for the amplification. All six of us in the support group are babes in the woods on this thing.
Sam
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