The Case For/Against Tony Allen

I can honestly say that there have been times when I have seen TA do something quite athletic on the hardwood and I say to myself, "Self,..if Doc could fit this guy into the rotation properly, this could be good..."
but then there are many other times when this guy looks clueless...as in, very low basketball IQ, as in, I can't ever see this guy really fitting in.
If there was ever a time for this guy to show up and fit in, get with the program, use that athleticism constructively....Now is that time. This may be his last chance as a Celtic to come off the bench and contribute consistently. Does he have it in him...or is he just another guy who's movin on soon?

Tony Allen has used up all of his get out of jail cards IMO and if there was even a iota of interest, he would have been gone in the off season.

Over the next month or so, he has what I believe to be his last chance to prove his worth to the team – but more so, as an NBA player. He is extremely physically gifted, but his basketball IQ is about as low as anyone I have ever seen. I hope he can pull himself together and contribute over the period that Daniels is out. But I am not holding out much hope for that to happen in more than spurts here and there.

Seems to me the best chance would be if Doc could simplify it for Tony.

Despite his lack of great height, I'd prefer to see Tony play only forward. Less complication than getting reoriented at two positions. Fewer ballhandling demands. Don't try to use him to space the team on the perimeter...less perimeter shooting temptation. Put his propensity to substitute athleticism for guile to good use by making him play bigger guys...and making them play him on the offensive end. Against bigger SFs, use Scal.

Sam

Oh where to begin on Tony. I guess bottom line, for me, is that he has much more downside than upside at this point. I do still remember how well he was playing prior to his knee injury, so every time I see him take the floor a part of me is waiting for that guy to show up. Unfortunately we've seen more Tony Turnover than the guy who filled in for PP so admirably.

A lot of people have said he has a low basketball IQ. I've said this on another thread, but I'll repeat it here. I'm not sure if it's as much a low b-ball IQ as it is his body moving faster than his brain. I think he understands what he's supposed to do, he just has a hard time putting it all together. Maybe that's the same thing as a low b-ball IQ, I don't know, but I tend to think not.

I do agree that this is pretty much his last shot to prove that he belongs in the NBA. On the bright side, his contract expires this year! If he doesn't make improvements, and the C's still re-sign him, my head just might explode.

Sam

Are you saying use him to spell PP. Gives us another slasher? I am just poking my head in here where I can at work.

Jeb

Well bust my chops...who comes up with the biggest +/- tonight?

Jeb,

Yes, I'm suggesting, in effect, that Tony be used mainly as Pierce's "caddy," at least until Daniels returns. It was pretty much that way for an extended period last night after Paul got into foul trouble.

Since Doc continues to want a starter to play with the bench, my preference for that starter would be Ray. So far this season, the combination of Ray and the bench has a far more positive +/- stat per minute than even the starters, while Pierce's +/- stat with the bench is a minus.

What that would entail is having Eddie relieve Ray midway through the first period. Eddie has a decent +/- working with the starters, and The floor would still be spaced for the starters. Then Ray would come in and play with Eddie and the rest of the bench. Those two would space the floor nicely so free Sheed up for working down low and free Tony up for slashing. The fifth bench member would be Williams, Scal or (eventually) Davis, depending on the matchups at PF.

Sam

the PP back up question has sprung up high profile since Daniels went down. i cringe, mostly, when i see TA try to help out in that role. his back-and-forth at mid-court last night was another "oh no!" moment in a career that unfortunately is becoming defined by such moments.

i suppose it could happen to anybody - but it didn't.

M in Denver

Tony had a good game last night against Washington. He played with aggressively, with energy and focus (other than the carrying call).

We need him to do this consistently. Last night Pierce had an off night. Having a good backup, especially with Daniels on the IR is hugely important.

He played like it was contract year/last chance.

Hopefully he can use that sense of urgency for something positive and not become desperate.

I guess I have to give Tony props for his performance last night. He did show some flashes of the pre-injury Tony, and that's good. Let's hope he can sustain that type of play over the rest of the season, and stay injury free. We need him to be at his best with 'Quis out.

swedeinestonia wrote:He played like it was contract year/last chance.

Hopefully he can use that sense of urgency for something positive and not become desperate.

swede,

It IS his contract year/last chance, and don't think he doesn't know it.

bob

Let's hope that he can take some of that raw talent and FOCUS it. That's my wish.

As long as TA does not try to dribble th ball alot he is ok.

I like his ability to score around the basket, I also like his instinctive rebounding and I like his on the ball defense.

I am going to make a prediction that over the next 6-8 weeks TA will reestablish himself in the 9 man rotation.

For



dboss

dboss wrote:As long as TA does not try to dribble th ball alot he is ok.

I like his ability to score around the basket, I also like his instinctive rebounding and I like his on the ball defense.

I am going to make a prediction that over the next 6-8 weeks TA will reestablish himself in the 9 man rotation.

For



dboss

dboss,

I have said that TA is one of, if not the best slashers on the team. PP obviously would probably be better than TA, but he does so many other things too. PP is an "on the ball" offensive player while TA has shown he can play off it, not as a jumpshooter but as a slasher.

With Sheed and maybe RA on top, Tony could really make some hay if he moves without the ball, cuts to the hoop and looks for the pass from them.

bob

I have seen TA have some good moments,unfortunately last years playoffs wasn't one of them.My thinking is if he can stay healthy and playing off all this talent,learn how to go to the right spots when needed,play his usual aggresive D and not go for the head fake,he should be fine as a role player to contribute some and give Pierce some rest.Its not like hes the third option,just don't force it,when the game comes to you,go strong.....he should help.

I'm glad that TA is on the roster since, with Daniels on the shelf, he's the closest thing the C's have to a backup for Pierce.

Like others said, he's best when he is not put in a position as a decison maker. Let him finish, slash and ballhawk.

So he went 2-6, made both his free throws. 3 boards (2 offensive), 1 steal and 2 turnovers.

I honestly did not pay much attention to his game, did anybody else?

here's a story in the Globe today ...
"Tony Allen is from Chicago and he needed 32 tickets for family and friends for Saturday’s game. Every player receives an allotment for each road game and generally when a player returns to his hometown, his teammates will offer their tickets. Allen didn’t get much assistance Saturday and he will remember the lack of charity.


“Oh, I didn’t get a lot of help,’’ Allen said. “But I’m going to remember that though. When I go to these brothers’ cities and they need tickets, I am going to go to the mall and just ask somebody if they want to go to the game. It’s going to happen like that, for real.’’
Gary Washburn

what does this imply or mean about his role on the team, how he's viewed by his teammates, and maybe most importantly, how he views his teammates? TA's going to hold a grudge of hurt feelings now ... so how does that translate to play on the court? no sharing the ball? TA neither gives nor receives? it sure doesn't sound good !!! what it sounds like is that Tony's decided to be into Tony, not team ... this isn't what we need from him in any play, and particularly as PP's putative back up with Quis out.

Michael in Denver

bigpygme wrote:here's a story in the Globe today ...
"Tony Allen is from Chicago and he needed 32 tickets for family and friends for Saturday’s game. Every player receives an allotment for each road game and generally when a player returns to his hometown, his teammates will offer their tickets. Allen didn’t get much assistance Saturday and he will remember the lack of charity.


“Oh, I didn’t get a lot of help,’’ Allen said. “But I’m going to remember that though. When I go to these brothers’ cities and they need tickets, I am going to go to the mall and just ask somebody if they want to go to the game. It’s going to happen like that, for real.’’
Gary Washburn

what does this imply or mean about his role on the team, how he's viewed by his teammates, and maybe most importantly, how he views his teammates? TA's going to hold a grudge of hurt feelings now ... so how does that translate to play on the court? no sharing the ball? TA neither gives nor receives? it sure doesn't sound good !!! what it sounds like is that Tony's decided to be into Tony, not team ... this isn't what we need from him in any play, and particularly as PP's putative back up with Quis out.

Michael in Denver

bigpygme,

KG and Doc are both from Chicago. Maybe the other players allotments went to them. I don't care how popular or unpopular Tony is with his teammates, he's not going to pre-empt KG and Doc.

As far as how it will affect his attitude and play, we already know that Tony's biggest enemy is his own head.

bob

In the Herald article today, 12/15, Doc mentioned that Tony's good on defense, although he has to stop gambling so much, but if he can't handle the ball on offense, he can't play. That's because Doc doesn't want Eddie handling the ball since that detracts from his game as a shooter and that's what Doc really wants Eddie to do. If TA can't play point, TA sits.

Bad news for TA. Ballhandling has not been his hallmark over the years.

bob

bobheckler wrote:

bigpygme wrote:here's a story in the Globe today ...
"Tony Allen is from Chicago and he needed 32 tickets for family and friends for Saturday’s game. Every player receives an allotment for each road game and generally when a player returns to his hometown, his teammates will offer their tickets. Allen didn’t get much assistance Saturday and he will remember the lack of charity.


“Oh, I didn’t get a lot of help,’’ Allen said. “But I’m going to remember that though. When I go to these brothers’ cities and they need tickets, I am going to go to the mall and just ask somebody if they want to go to the game. It’s going to happen like that, for real.’’
Gary Washburn

what does this imply or mean about his role on the team, how he's viewed by his teammates, and maybe most importantly, how he views his teammates? TA's going to hold a grudge of hurt feelings now ... so how does that translate to play on the court? no sharing the ball? TA neither gives nor receives? it sure doesn't sound good !!! what it sounds like is that Tony's decided to be into Tony, not team ... this isn't what we need from him in any play, and particularly as PP's putative back up with Quis out.

Michael in Denver

bigpygme,

KG and Doc are both from Chicago. Maybe the other players allotments went to them. I don't care how popular or unpopular Tony is with his teammates, he's not going to pre-empt KG and Doc.

As far as how it will affect his attitude and play, we already know that Tony's biggest enemy is his own head.

bob

lots for me to learn - i didn't know KG and Doc are Chicagoans. that'd explain at least part of TA's coming up short on tix. but your re-telling of the Herald article today makes it sound l ike we're soon not going to see a lot of TA, since we've all seen him dribble it off his foot, as GC said recently.

Michael in Denver

BobH, do you have a link for that Herald article? (I assume you mean the BOSTON Herald.) I can't find it in today's Herald.

Thanks,

Sam

It's possible most people already read this. I have a feeling we all soak up every ounce of Celtic news that is available, but just in case, this was in the Globe yesterday:

Posted by Gary Washburn Globe Staff December 14, 2009 11:32 AM
In the Tony Allen note in today's paper about not getting tickets from teammates and being irked about it, Allen was completely joking and was not angry about it. I'm sorry if it didn't come across that way for the readers, but Allen said it all in fun. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Doc loves Allen's defense and hard work. Allen is still on the team because, honestly, he defenses the pick and roll better than any Celtic player. Doc has had more patience with Allen than I would ever have, but Doc realizes Allen can still play lock-down defense. I believe his steals per minute continues to be very good, possibly very close to Rondo.

Tony picks up a lot of turnovers in transition because he doesn't know what he is going to do with the basketball. His teammates do not know what Allen is going to do because Allen is so unsure.

And yet Tony on the court picks up game tempo. He causes disruption (many times Celtic disruption). You can tell the players Tony guards are not overjoyed with his "in-your-face" defense. Many times Allen makes a difference.

I would play Allen more minutes when the defense is having trouble. If the offense is struggling, play House and Daniels. Tony would get more playing time, and possibly build up his offensive confidence. If so, play him more offensively. If not, play Allen when defense needs a shot in the arm.

Go Celtics!