Re: How about it, Brad?

by **bobheckler** Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:49 pm

Is Brad setting himself up for departure?

It's one thing to accept responsibility for a team's poor performance but according to this article the players are trying to step up and shoulder some the blame and Brad's not letting them.

It's a team, Brad. You, ALL OF YOU, are in it together. Leading by example is great but you have to let your team step up with you too.

http://www.nba.com/celtics/news/sidebar/prac-010615-stevens-unwilling-let-players-take-blame

Stevens Unwilling To Let Players Take Blame

Posted: Jan 06, 2015

By Marc D'Amico | @Marc_DAmico
Celtics.com
January 6, 2015

WALTHAM, Mass. – Celtics players have attempted to take the blame for Monday night’s loss to the Charlotte Bobcats. Brad Stevens is having none of it.

“I really appreciate the fact that those guys would say that,” Stevens said prior to Tuesday morning’s practice, “but a coach’s job is to have a team put their best foot forward.

“It doesn’t mean you’re going to win every game. It doesn’t mean you’re going to play perfectly. It doesn’t mean you’re going to do every little thing right. But our best foot wasn’t put forward and that is a coach’s first and foremost responsibility.”

By using the term ‘best foot forward,’ Stevens was referencing his team playing with effort and energy from start to finish. Those characteristics were not on display Monday night against the Charlotte Hornets.

“We got out-hustled. We got out-played,” said Stevens. “It’s not an acceptable thing for any of us. It starts with me.”

One has to wonder why this has become an issue for Boston as of late. After all, this is a team that has been commended by nearly every opposing coach over the past two seasons for how hard it plays every night. That was a defining characteristic of this team, but it has somehow disappeared over the course of the past two weeks.

Asked why such has been the case, Jeff Green responded candidly.

“Getting content,” he said. “Winning a few games and getting content with that. I think we dropped our play. That comes with the long season, and when you win a couple of games you think it’s going to come easy the next game, and I think we lost our focus a little bit.”

Boston had won six of nine contests from Dec.3 to Dec. 19. Since Dec.21, it has gone 1-7, including four losses that reached blowout status during the second half.

The recent stretch of losses happens to coincide with the date in which the Celtics and Mavericks pulled off a five-player trade. Boston just hasn’t looked like the same team since.

Jameer Nelson, an 11-year veteran who was a part of that trade, watched the Celtics’ two most recent losses from the sideline with a sprained right ankle. The point guard has seen exactly what his coach has seen: a lack of effort.

“You can’t give up the amount of offensive rebounds and loose balls that we give up. You can’t be lackadaisical with the ball,” he said. “We have to value the ball offensively and we have to be tenacious defensively and be there for one another.”

Nelson also revealed that he delivered a similar message to his teammates on Monday.

“Like I told guys yesterday, you don’t have to execute every play well. You don’t have to get there defensively, because you’re going to make mistakes,” Nelson said. “But as long as you play hard – if you play harder than the other team you won’t be down 20 every other game and you’ll give yourself a chance.”

The Celtics have failed to play harder than the opponent for the majority of the last two weeks, and Stevens is taking full blame for that fact. He says it is his job to get this team to play hard each and every night.

Boston’s next opportunity to do so arrives on Wednesday, when it takes on the Nets in Brooklyn. If the C’s come out and play well, we won’t need to discuss who is to blame. Instead, we’ll be able to talk about who deserves credit, and that’s much more enjoyable for all parties involved.

bob

.

by **Shamrock1000** Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:34 pm

Honestly, I have not been impressed with Brad. I don't hate the guy, or think he is fundamentally incompetent, but I have never understood the amount of praise he has gotten from the media (both local and national). Based on his performance in the NBA, I think I am justified in my reservation. For one thing, the Celtics lose too many close games. Of course the players bear some responsibility, but you also have to look at the coach. Secondly, we weren't that bad defensively last year when Ron Adams was an assistant, yet we suck now. In general, the Celtics are worse than last year. Also, I just have a hard time seeing him commanding respect from NBA players - probably not fair, but he just seems to kiddish... All that being said, I don't follow college ball, so maybe his record with Butler warrants some of the praise.

Another possibility is that Brad is actually coaching to lose... unlikely, but you have to wonder.

by **k_j_88** Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:21 pm

I've literally been saying for months now that Brad's coaching should be called into question.

The way I see it, he has three primary weaknesses: 1. He is very slow to adapt and adjust, 2. His understanding of the pro game remains severely limited, and 3. His substitution and rotation patterns are not adequate.

I mean, why the hell did it take so long for him to start Zeller, the ONLY legit center on the team? Instead, he wanted to keep throwing Sullinger and Kelly into that role, a role neither of them are equipped for. He is slow to recognize when the team is not executing properly on offense. I'm not talking simply missed shots, either. I'm talking players just aimlessly playing disjointed basketball (jacking up unnecessary threes, throwing weak passes, dribbling into trapping situations) while the other team is going on runs.

To refer to a previous game against the Bulls, the free throw attempt discrepancy was ATROCIOUS! 40 to 11? Really? The team also shot 5-17 from 3, a measly 29%. Following the loss, Brad has the nerve to say "we weren't aggressive." Well, no shit. Three-point shooting is not a means of "aggressive" basketball! Instead, it is very passive because it doesn't force the other team to do much more than set up a stout defense and wait for you to miss a low percentage shot. How can one propose a three-point shooting philosophy and still expect his team to play aggressive?

It's almost as if there's this growing "deer in headlights" syndrome going on in his head. His "throwing darts" comment is really quite telling. It's a self admission that he doesn't have a damn idea of what's going on or what to do. That sends a bad message to your players, because they won't play for someone that doesn't have any idea of how to handle the situation. Has he already mentally checked out 30 something games in?

I'm sure the locker room is sure to be lost soon if it hasn't already. Why? There's not a damn bit of leadership there now. And that's just sad.

KJ

by **Sam** Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:45 pm

Off the board, Cow. Thank you. The board doesn't need antidote to insomnia.

Cow

by **Sam** Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:04 am

Hawk,

Yeah, I consider it part of my moderating job to start conversations, some of which can become spirited. BobH often does it by posting articles. I prefer to post my own thoughts.

Both approaches are usually effective. Unfortunately, on occasion, either approach can also generate reactions that can miss the point or even become contentious. But it's a source of pride that, in the roughly 125,000 posts this forum has produced, the level of sustained conviviality has been amazing. It's a credit to the judgment and character of forum members.

Sam

by **mrkleen09** Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:37 am

I am not a big fan of Brad Stevens in game decisions and substitution patterns, but he is the right guy for the job AT THE MOMENT. Not sure he is the guy at the helm when the Celtics come out of this period of darkness, back into the light. But for now, with a fairly young team - full of guys who need encouragement more than reprimands and criticism, he is the right guy.

And in spite of losing many close games, they have shown a real desire to play together, play hard, make runs to get back into games vs. giving up like many of the NBA bottom dwellers. The guys clearly like him and he is a smart basketball mind, so I am sure they are learning a lot (clearly more about offense than defense), but learning just the same.

I think he is having a hard time adjusting to the team management, rigorous travel schedule, learning who the refs are and what they will and will not tolerate etc. But to suggest he is "lost" is just silly. He is a very qualified, very bright basketball coach - one who isnt here by chance.

If you want to talk about darts - put up a list of the 20 best college programs in the NCAA. And save for Duke, Kentucky, Syracuse and maybe Kansas - this guy could throw a dart and whatever team he hit, would hire him tomorrow.

by **Sam** Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:54 am

One of the things I like best about Brad is that he has a tendency to ride the hot hands regardless of starter or bench status. And I don't mean just in terms of shooting. There is a growing number of occasions when he sticks with a bench combination that is clicking (on offense, defense, or both), even in the clutch. He did that with Young, Smart and Crowder against the Hornets. That was definitely not garbage time—not if the number of panic timeouts taken by Charlotte was any indications. It was a good test, over a substantial number of prime time minutes, and they passed the test pretty well. They played superb trapping defense. And I believe James Young is the best pure shooter on the team. Last night, he prove to me that he's better than most at shooting in traffic. I even liked his defense.

Sam

by **swedeinestonia** Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:46 am

What teams are doing better with similar/less talent? Could it not be argued that this team has the least talent/scoring of the whole NBA? I am guessing that by this time Stevens has been assigned to figure out which players are "worth keeping" either talent per dollar or has potential ala Young so Ainge can do his thing while keeping the ones Stevens thinks are worth keeping.

Unfortunately winning this season is mostly detrimental to the team. It is not even really possible to use it to "build a winning culture" (which I agree can be very important) since most players are either on their way out of the league/the team or simply will not be resigned, they are more a collection of individual assets than a team.

by **mrkleen09** Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:46 am

sam wrote:One of the things I like best about Brad is that he has a tendency to ride the hot hands regardless of starter or bench status. And I don't mean just in terms of shooting. There is a growing number of occasions when he sticks with a bench combination that is clicking (on offense, defense, or both), even in the clutch. He did that with Young, Smart and Crowder against the Hornets. That was definitely not garbage time—not if the number of panic timeouts taken by Charlotte was any indications. It was a good test, over a substantial number of prime time minutes, and they passed the test pretty well. They played superb trapping defense. And I believe James Young is the best pure shooter on the team. Last night, he prove to me that he's better than most at shooting in traffic. I even liked his defense.

Sam

I agree about 80% of the way. I like the Coach Pop vision that you ride the hot hand...but that only gets you so far, particularly when your bench is made up of marginal players vs what hte Spurs have to offer. The problem that I see with the Celtics is that Coach Stevens rides this strategy until the wheels fall off...which they usually do.

There other night was a perfect example. Yes, it was Pressey, Crowder, Young, Smart who were on the court when the Celtics made their big run. BUT, at some point with about 6 minutes left - he could have seen (I could see it, so could Tommy) that a few of the guys were gassed and starting to force shots. At that point, if you think you are going to need some fresh legs to finish - you need to make some substitutions then....not wait until there are 3 minutes left in the game.

You cannot sit down Jeff Green and AB at the end of the third quarter, let them cool off to the point that they are on the bench for 20 or 25 minutes, and then expect them to be able to come back with 3 minutes left on the game clock and hit shots to win the game. That is not going to happen.

Stevens does this all the time. IMO he is still stuck in a college mentality where you often swap out 3 or 4 players as a unit.

This will rarely work in the NBA, as you need to constantly mix and match players and if you have a guy like Jeff Green, who clearly needs time to get into the flow before he can really start clicking - then you simply cannot let him sit until the last few minutes of the game and expect him to pick up where he left off.

by **Shamrock1000** Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:48 am

swedeinestonia wrote:What teams are doing better with similar/less talent? Could it not be argued that this team has the least talent/scoring of the whole NBA? I am guessing that by this time Stevens has been assigned to figure out which players are "worth keeping" either talent per dollar or has potential ala Young so Ainge can do his thing while keeping the ones Stevens thinks are worth keeping.

Unfortunately winning this season is mostly detrimental to the team. It is not even really possible to use it to "build a winning culture" (which I agree can be very important) since most players are either on their way out of the league/the team or simply will not be resigned, they are more a collection of individual assets than a team.

Currently, yes, the team is lacking talent. However, the team with Rondo and Green was not without talent - not a contender, but certainly should have been better than they were. The thing that worries me most is that the Celtics did not improve between last year and this year (I'm talking with Green and Rondo - the current team can't be compared to last year's team). Furthermore, both last year and this year, the team has gotten worse as the season progressed. Not good signs. Additionally, I just can't figure out his approach - he doesn't seem to be coaching to win, nor does he seem to be coaching to develop the young guys. The result is a shitty team with no one developing the confidence to evolve into a valuable player/asset.

Taking all things into consideration, he is probably somewhere in between the "boy genius" the media paints him as and the "deer in the headlights" some fans see. If I seem to be taking a negative perspective, it is partly to offset the knee-jerk positive spin he gets in the press.

by **Sam** Wed Jan 07, 2015 1:48 pm

Nicely put, Shamrock. A particularly well thought-out post, and a fair evaluation. While I wouldn't agree 100% with the degree of negativity, you even anticipated that and preempted it nicely with your last comment.

Comparing the team this year with last year is of questionable validity because last year's team had all year to improve and received reinforcements (in the form of Rondo) as the year progressed. This "year" consists of only about one-third of the season, and the depletion of resources (also in the form of Rondo) has run counter to the reinforcements of last season. You don't see me posting my usual "See me in April" comment this season because I can't think of a single type of discontinuity that could disrupt a team as much as losing an upper echelon floor general.

I'm not knocking Danny for trading Rondo. Under the circumstances, I think he had to do it. But, regardless of the justification for the trade, it created as much discontinuity for Brad as for the players.

This is why I started this thread. There are so many variables involved, my feelings about Brad have reached the "on the other hand...." stage. And the diversity of opinions on the matter have only strengthened my consternation.

Sam

by **Sam** Wed Jan 07, 2015 1:59 pm

Mrkleen,

I couldn't agree more with your "80%" assessment of my post. It's a perfect example of the "on the other hand" situation in which I now find myself regarding Brad. In terms of trying to leverage the comeback with fresh starters to try for the win, he failed to do it. On the other hand, if the bench guys had held on and eked out a win, what might it have done for their confidence? And, when people clamor for Brad to play the young guys (literally the Young guy), isn't it part of the development process to learn how to play down the stretch.

I believe there was more good than bad that emerged from that loss. (1) Regardless of whether Brad went too long with them, some key young guys got not just some minutes but some prime time minutes. (2) We saw what kind of defensive intensity and success can be mounted by the right combination (which did not, by the way, include Bradley), if only for a relatively short period. (3) The young guys did experience some confidence-building minutes. (4) It could potentially have been the introduction of Young to the rotation or at least it could have given Danny some perspective about making certain trades with Young waiting in the wings.

So, in a season when wins are pretty obviously not the primary yardstick of success, one could argue that Brad erred in the right direction by playing Young, Smart, Crowder and Pressey (I forgot Phil in my post...thanks for adding him). On the other hand.........

Sam

by **mrkleen09** Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:34 pm

Sam

I agree that we may well be seeing exactly that on the court....a collaboration between Danny and Brad to basically worry about everything BUT winning in support of perfecting the recipe so to speak.

The issue I have with that however, is two fold.

One is that losing becomes a habit that is very hard to break. Tommy has spoken about this often, particularly in regard to teams like Philly, Minnesota and Milwaukee. It is harder to teach a winning attitude than it is to teach X's and O's. The Washington OT game and a few others this season were good learning exercises, but would have been even more valuable to the team psyche and long term believe in themselves if they pulled it out.

Secondly, if the group being throw into the fire includes people you have a long term commitment to - great - you are correct. But if the 5 being given the run over the starters includes Gerald Wallace, Brandon Wright or others who are clearly not part of the long term solution here - I am not sure what you accomplish.

In addition, even if you are going for the long view - and winning isn't of paramount importance - you have to grow during this experiment, and not just the players but the coaching staff as well.

If you as the coach, are leaving opportunity on the table and for example, not calling a time out to urge your guys on, or not making it known to the officials that there is a 29 free throw discrepancy and you expect some fairness down the stretch, you are missing out on half the goal.

by **dboss** Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:59 pm

FYI

dboss has not left the board but he has left the shipwreck (emotionally)

I have a few additional comments to make.

I would not consider this game to be a comback. It was a run... plain and simple. It happens each day and everyday during most games. You cannot have a comeback unless in fact you came back.

As far as giving credit to the young pups, hold your horses. The Celts outscored the Hornets by 8 points in the 4th 33-25. Sully scored 10 and Bass scored 4 points. Crowder had 7 and Pressey had 4. Smart chipped in with 2 free throw. But the eye opening performance was James Young's 8 points.

The only significant thing that was revealed is that james Young can shoot the rock as he looked just like those recent video clips that we saw from the D-League games. Crowder is not a guy that is going to be a finisher on most nights and neither is Pressey. The next time they play they are just as likely to miss every shot they take.

Defensively the Celtics still gave up 25 points in the 4th QTR against a horrible team that was playing without their primetime scorer.

That was not a good loss. There was nothing absolutely nothing about Brad's coaching that deserved any kudos.

Your team is down 79-62 at the start of the 4th so you put some bench players in a game that is already out of control. Is that supposed to be some clairvoyant or intellectually perceptive decision by coach brad? I dare say not. Brad stevens is somewhere between being a Horrible coach and a Bad coach.

Let's take for example the benching of our only center Tyler Zeller who played only 16 minutes. So the younger Zeller is being schooled by his older brother. Cody knocks him on the head a few times and he runs into the house crying to his mama. The mama has one of two things to say. "Would you like a cup of chocolate"? or "get your ass back out there and knock your brother upside the head...and stop crying just keep playing hard."

By coach Brad taking Tyler out of the game and limiting his minutes to only 16, he might as well have been telling him that his brother is better than he is.

Coach Stevens is a real nice guy. He appears to also be a smart person but he suffers from the paralysis of analysis. Who will be running the 1/5 pick and role these days? When will his team learn how to defend the pick and role? When will we see one freakin game where his team is able to take one thing, just one thing away from their opponents.

This is a shipwreck...This is a trainwreck...This is a pileup on 128. There is nothing but made up glimmers. There is no light at the end of this dark tunnel. The earth is no longer in orbit around the sun.

Let's blame Danny Ainge...why not? He's at the rudder..

So whadda think? negative enough for ya?

dboss (safely inside the lifeboat) lol

by **Sam** Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:02 pm

Mrkleen,

There are obvious pros and cons about being (or at least appearing to be) an even tempered NBA coach. On one hand, an encouraging demeanor rewards success without allowing failures to cause irreparable psychological damage. On the other hand (here I go again), there can be a difference between encouraging and exhorting (or even insisting), and this is where Brad may fall short. A career strongly influenced by college coaching may have convinced him that delivering benign messages is better than risking injured psyches among "fragile" college players. An, on this team, some of the players aren't much older than college kids.

As for the free throw discrepancy, Brad seemed sanguine about it after the game, noting the difference in aggressiveness between the two teams. On one hand, his candor could be considered refreshing. On the other hand (you knew it was coming), on this team, who other than the coach is responsible for jacking up the aggressiveness? And, on the third hand, how can he reconcile the lack of aggressiveness with his love of the three ball?

On the other hand, he seems to have been willing to sit starters for non-performance. He did it with Rondo. He did it with Green. He did it with Sully. He did it with Kelly (in fact, sat him all the way down to the bench). So maybe he does have an element of firmness. But, strictly based on the atmosphere around the team and NOT based on ability, I sense a strong lack of intensity that I've become used to feeling with Celtics teams.

Sam

by **gyso** Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:30 pm

When Sam looks in the mirror lately, this is what he sees:

How about it, Brad? - Page 2 Multi-10

by **Shamrock1000** Wed Jan 07, 2015 7:19 pm

sam wrote:Nicely put, Shamrock. A particularly well thought-out post, and a fair evaluation. While I wouldn't agree 100% with the degree of negativity, you even anticipated that and preempted it nicely with your last comment.

Comparing the team this year with last year is of questionable validity because last year's team had all year to improve and received reinforcements (in the form of Rondo) as the year progressed. This "year" consists of only about one-third of the season, and the depletion of resources (also in the form of Rondo) has run counter to the reinforcements of last season. You don't see me posting my usual "See me in April" comment this season because I can't think of a single type of discontinuity that could disrupt a team as much as losing an upper echelon floor general.

I'm not knocking Danny for trading Rondo. Under the circumstances, I think he had to do it. But, regardless of the justification for the trade, it created as much discontinuity for Brad as for the players.

This is why I started this thread. There are so many variables involved, my feelings about Brad have reached the "on the other hand...." stage. And the diversity of opinions on the matter have only strengthened my consternation.

Sam

Slightly off topic, but just wanted to say what a pleasure it has been posting on this board. Sam's response to my post (both of which are quoted above) is a perfect example of why I feel this way. An interesting thread was started, I put in my two cents, and Sam responded politely and intelligently. Although we may not entirely agree, he actually read my thread and commented on the content rather than simply attacking or regurgitating some stale agenda. After posting at BDC, it is such a pleasure to post with folks who try and respond to both the content and the "spirit" of the post rather than rigidly focus on some literal phrase to belittle someone else and/or advances one's own agenda. Sam was singled out here, but I have seen/read similar inclusionary (is that a word??) posts from so many others here. This is obviously a hoops-literate board, with many knowledgeable posters who know each other well. Yet, I felt welcome here after my 1st post...

LONG LIVE CONVIVIALITY!

by **Sam** Wed Jan 07, 2015 7:38 pm

Thanks for the nice comments, Shamrock. Despite the fact that, as a moderator, I sometimes am forced to respond to very occasional discussion problems, my undying belief is that people deserve to know how appreciated they are. And, on this board, there's no shortage of people to appreciate. My wife and I will forever be grateful for the friends we've made from the board. And I have learned more about basketball since founding this board than I absorbed during the previous 54 years as a Celtics fan.

Sam

by **Shamrock1000** Wed Jan 07, 2015 7:51 pm

Sam - thanks for the nice comment earlier, but judging from your last few posts, I wonder if you mean to be on the "game on" post Razz

by **Sam** Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:22 pm

Thanks, Shamrock. You are correct. I'm amazed it doesn't happen more often. When I'm on the Game-on Thread, I also switch back and forth to monitor posts on the Hot Topics forum, I print out the stats after every quarter in case I wind up starting the post-game thread, I watch the game and post, and I try to show up on time for dinner so there will be peace in the house.

That's why it's great to have eagle eyes like yours helping to keep me straight.

Sam

by Sponsored content