Re: Post-Game Thread, vs GSW Away

by **Sam** Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:40 pm

Swish,

Nicely stated. I'm particularly interested in what happens in the future.

Sam

by **cowens/oldschool** Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:11 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:He was my pick before that draft, if we had him he'd make Sully so much better.

Put a legit 7 footer like Gobert next to Sully, he could do alot more than Charles Oakley, he'd be a 20-10 beast.

That is fair. I watch Sully and sometimes it is him against 2 or 3 guys who are all bigger than him, and he still out hustles and toughs them. Sully next to an imposing Center would be a nice front court.

hello Danny just cause you wiffed with Melo, don't be gun shy, in the paint size does matter, Gobert already has 3 blocks at halftime, Sully and Gobert would make Sully a perennial all star, those 2 guys together would have owned that paint.

by **mrkleen09** Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:43 pm

There are a couple of Centers on the Kentucky team this year who could fit the bill. Maybe Danny felt like he had a chance at Asik or Gortat....not sure.

by **Outside** Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:55 pm

MrKleen,

I had intended to let your post go, but it's been gnawing at me the past couple of days, so here goes.

mrkleen09 wrote:The Warriors are a very good team, but very reliant on the jump shot. Not sure this is a formula that works in a grind it out 7 game series in the playoffs with the San Antonio or Memphis, but guess we will find out in April and May.

While we'll see if the Warriors' regular season success translates to the playoffs, this "they rely too much on jump shots" argument is mitigated by several factors:

• They are third in the league in points in the paint, behind Memphis and New Orleans (http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/points-in-paint-per-game).

• Like many NBA teams, including the reigning champion Spurs, they use three-point shooting to spread the floor. They move the ball well and take advantage of that spacing to lead the league in assists, just as the Spurs did last season.

• They are particularly good at three-point shooting. They have two of the best in the game with Curry and Thompson. They are fourth in the league in three-point attempts (26.5 per game, compared to the league-leading Rockets at 33.6 and 13th Boston at 23.0) and first in three-point percentage (an excellent 39.0 as a team). This is similar to the Spurs last season, who were middle of the pack in three-point attempts during the season but led the league in three-point percentage both during the regular season and playoffs, and their three-point shooting was a key part of how they won the title (along with spacing, ball movement, and player movement, which the Warriors also do).

The Warriors are first in the league in points in the paint, assists, three-point percentage, two-point percentage (and obviously overall FG percentage and effective FG percentage), margin of victory, defensive rating (points allowed per 100 possessions), opponent FG percentage, and opponent effective FG percentage. They're second in blocks, third in steals, and fourth in offensive efficiency (points scored per 100 possessions) and FT percentage. They defend all over the court, share the ball, and are playing excellent team basketball, not hero ball.

Are they guaranteed to win the West? Of course not, because there are so many tough teams in the West. But that doesn't invalidate their style of play or how well they execute it.

mrkleen09 wrote:As a team they have a bit too much swagger for a group that has won exactly nothing. Again, that is kind of the way modern sports has gone - but I would like to see teams like the Warriors (add the Clippers, Houston to the list) take one step back in terms of humility

I didn't see this game, so I don't know what you're referring to specifically. However, having seen them play in other games, my observation is that they play with joy and confidence but not "swagger," which to me implies a sizable dose of arrogant attitude. A few of their guys can be feisty, particularly Green, but that's a good thing. They revel in their own good play, particularly when they make runs, but do it by celebrating among themselves, not by rubbing it in the opponents' faces.

I don't buy the argument that they aren't allowed to do any of that until they've won a championship. To win a championship, they have to play like champions, and that includes confidence in their own play. I like their attitude very much. I suggest watching them play sometime against someone other than Boston.

mrkleen09 wrote:Watching Sullinger push around Green and Speights was a blast. He has a ton of heart, great hands and is strong as a bull. Scalabrine kept telling us how great Green was, meanwhile Sully was abusing him over and over.

Speaking of Speights, this guy has got to have the worst attitude in the NBA behind DeMarcus Cousins and Lance Stevenson. Relax buddy...you are a 6 ppg scorer.

Again, I didn't see this particular game, but if you took your green glasses off, you'd see that Green in particular is a guy you'd like. Sullinger is smart enough to use his size and height advantage on Green, but I'm sure Green wasn't "abused" all night long. Sullinger had a particularly good game -- good for him. Green does a lot of things to help his team win and is far more versatile than Sullinger -- good for him, too.

Speights had a tough night, so perhaps he was frustrated, but he's not a bad attitude guy -- certainly not like Cousins (who has improved in that area) and Stephenson. Speights has been a very good rotation player for the Warriors this season, and by the way, he's averaging 12.4 points and 5.0 rebounds in 18 minutes per game, so he's been nicely productive.

Sorry, had to get this stuff off my chest. The Warriors have had a fantastic season and are playing excellent basketball. I've purposely avoiding talking about them here because it would be poor form to talk about how well they're playing while the Celtics are going through a tough season, but if you're going to call them out, I'll respond on their behalf.

by **mrkleen09** Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:15 pm

Outside wrote:But that doesn't invalidate their style of play or how well they execute it.

No one is invalidating anyones style of play. Simply saying, when you are in the playoffs, the game slows down - and without an inside presence to match up with Duncan or Gasol/Randolph - I think the Warriors will struggle. Time will tell, and if Klay keeps driving the ball as well as he has been it may be a non factor. But I dont see Lee, Bogut and Speights being able to deal with Memphis down low.

Outside wrote:I didn't see this game, so I don't know what you're referring to specifically. However, having seen them play in other games, my observation is that they play with joy and confidence but not "swagger," which to me implies a sizable dose of arrogant attitude. A few of their guys can be feisty, particularly Green, but that's a good thing. They revel in their own good play, particularly when they make runs, but do it by celebrating among themselves, not by rubbing it in the opponents' faces.

I don't buy the argument that they aren't allowed to do any of that until they've won a championship. To win a championship, they have to play like champions, and that includes confidence in their own play. I like their attitude very much. I suggest watching them play sometime against someone other than Boston.

I watch the Warriors often - they are the late game at least once a week these days. I like their game and their guards are out of sight. Maybe you are right, that they are celebrating amongst themselves - but IMO, I see Curry, Green, Bogut, Lee and a few others - walking around like the expect to get the call. Like they deserve it. Hate to inform them, they havent proven anything...and that is my point. Paul Pierce, D Wade and Lebron James have that same look - but yeah, those guys have earned it. Warriors are still earning that respect.

Outside wrote:Again, I didn't see this particular game, but if you took your green glasses off, you'd see that Green in particular is a guy you'd like. Sullinger is smart enough to use his size and height advantage on Green, but I'm sure Green wasn't "abused" all night long. Sullinger had a particularly good game -- good for him. Green does a lot of things to help his team win and is far more versatile than Sullinger -- good for him, too.

Speights had a tough night, so perhaps he was frustrated, but he's not a bad attitude guy -- certainly not like Cousins (who has improved in that area) and Stephenson. Speights has been a very good rotation player for the Warriors this season, and by the way, he's averaging 12.4 points and 5.0 rebounds in 18 minutes per game, so he's been nicely productive.

Sorry, had to get this stuff off my chest. The Warriors have had a fantastic season and are playing excellent basketball. I've purposely avoiding talking about them here because it would be poor form to talk about how well they're playing while the Celtics are going through a tough season, but if you're going to call them out, I'll respond on their behalf.

You are entitled to your opinion. Dont happen to agree with it.

I think Green is a good young player who is improving every year. More versatile than Sully? Yes, agree. Better than Sully - not a chance.

Maybe Speights is just a sour puss. But to me, everytime I see him he is crying to the refs and fouling repeatedly. Glad to hear you like him and he is having a productive season. I will chalk this one up to not seeing him play often enough. I still loved watching Sully drive the ball down his throat.

Not sure what the Warriors having a good year has to do with my ability to mention a few things about them I dont like. They are a very good team and are looking like strong contenders. I also know titles are not won in January. My money is on Memphis and San Antonio, but again - different strokes.

If I were a SF basketball fan, I would also be a bit sensitive to people criticizing my team, particularly when it has been so long since you had a real contender. BUT my comments were in response to ONE GAME and lets not forget, this is a Boston Celtics Forum. Our home town team is having a great trip, and I was happy to see them go right at the Warriors. Sorry if that rubbed you the wrong way.

by **cowens/oldschool** Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:43 pm

Green is a very good hardnosed player, hes flies up and down the floor, very good on the break, in an era of the stretch 4, he's an excellent perimeter defender. Sully has more size and skill as a post up player and defender, but I like Green as he can help any team as can Sully.

On Speights, his game has improved, he can play effectively both ends next to Bogut or Green. I would take him over our own KO in a heartbeat.

by **Outside** Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:39 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:Paul Pierce, D Wade and Lebron James have that same look - but yeah, those guys have earned it.

I'm pretty sure Pierce, KG, and Perk carried themselves with far more attitude during the 2007-08 season, before they had "earned" it, in your view.

mrkleen09 wrote:Not sure what the Warriors having a good year has to do with my ability to mention a few things about them I dont like. They are a very good team and are looking like strong contenders. I also know titles are not won in January. My money is on Memphis and San Antonio, but again - different strokes.

That's all fine. Nothing wrong with you giving your opinion. Also nothing wrong with me countering with one of my own.

mrkleen09 wrote:If I were a SF basketball fan, I would also be a bit sensitive to people criticizing my team, particularly when it has been so long since you had a real contender. BUT my comments were in response to ONE GAME and lets not forget, this is a Boston Celtics Forum. Our home town team is having a great trip, and I was happy to see them go right at the Warriors. Sorry if that rubbed you the wrong way.

I'm not "sensitive" about it. You really think you need to point out that this is a Celtics forum? LOL, everything from my screen name to my avoidance of discussing the Warriors is in recognition of my status as a non-green-blooded Celtic fan who defers to this being primarily a Celtic board. But when you post that the Warriors have too much swagger, have won "exactly nothing," and need to take a step back in terms of humility, that Sullinger "abused" Green repeatedly, and that Speights has one of the absolute worst attitudes in the league, that's going beyond celebrating their great road trip and their performance against the Warriors. When you call them out like that, it doesn't seem unreasonable for me to poke my head up as a Warriors fan and comment.

If you want to talk about what a great trip the Celtics are having and how well they played against the Warriors, great. I agree wholeheartedly.

by **worcester** Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:32 pm

This Warriors team is a joy to watch. They play great fundamentals basketball, and i hope the wind up facing the Spurs in a West championship series. The NBA IS WELL SERVED having GSW on the court as are the fans.

by **mrkleen09** Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:19 pm

Outside wrote:
I'm pretty sure Pierce, KG, and Perk carried themselves with far more attitude during the 2007-08 season, before they had "earned" it, in your view.

KG, Pierce and Ray Allen had about 60K points and 25 All Star appearances by the end of 2008 - apples and oranges.

by **swish** Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:43 pm

Outside

Any chance of a Warrior- Celtic roster swap. Sure would speed up the Celtic remake. I'm sure that its been a fun season for you so far.

Swish

by **cowens/oldschool** Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:57 am

WOW Draymond Green just beat Noah and Gasol on a total hustle play, offensive tip in to put the game into OT!!! great game Rose looks great, but has alot of turnovers and Warriors have not hit a 3 the whole 2nd half.

by **Sam** Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:59 am

Outside, I'd be interested in your opinion of whether the current Warriors success (to put it mildly) has any carryover whatsoever from the Nelson regime. Of course, I'm talking mainly about the offense because I can't recall Nellie's teams ever being noted for great defense.

Just curious as a Don Nelson fan and won't be at all surprised by a negative response.

Sam

by **Outside** Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:31 am

Sam,

There's not much direct carryover from the Nelson years. His last season there was 2009-10, and the only player on the current roster who was on that team is Steph Curry, who was a rookie then.

I don't recall much about the year with Keith Smart as coach. Mark Jackson took over after that, and he imprinted the team with his stamp on both offense and defense. Defensively, that led to steady improvement, but offensively, they used relatively limited and predictable sets. They were middle of the pack in offensive efficiency, but that was masked somewhat because they had good shooters who bailed them out of poor possessions.

Steve Kerr and Alvin Gentry have implemented a combo-type offense -- part motion offense, part set plays. What you can say about this year's team that is similar to Nelson's teams is pace and that they emphasize the fast break. "Nellie ball" was all about pushing the pace and getting out on the break, usually because he had undersized teams and that was the best way to leverage that in his favor. Whether the faster pace and emphasis on the fast break can be attributed to Nelson's influence, I can't say, but it's a definite similarity.

by **Outside** Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:42 am

swish wrote:Outside

Any chance of a Warrior- Celtic roster swap. Sure would speed up the Celtic remake. I'm sure that its been a fun season for you so far.

Thanks, Swish. For a long-suffering Warriors fan, it's been great seeing their resurgence the past few years, and this season has been a treat. Of course, the day I pipe up about how good they've been, they lose a home game for the first time since November 11, but it was a great game, and they're not going to win them all.

As for the roster swap, it's a generous offer, but I'll have to get back with you on that. Don't wait up.

by **Sam** Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:50 am

Thanks, Outside. I'm not surprised by your answer. I do wish the Celtics had the benefit of Nellie's wisdom in improving their tempo. But he's apparently very happy in Hawaii marketing his flavored shaved ice, inventing his own brand of dog food (I couldn't make that up), and having a lot of fun with his friends.

Sam

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