What stats show a good rim protector big man?

So now our guys rate thusly:

55--Bos----T. Zeller
63--Bos---K. Olynyk
65--Tot----J. Jerebko (why is he "Tot"?)
66--Bos---J. Sullinger
86--Bos----B. Bass

The other Zeller dropped a bit:
37--Char--C. Zeller

Other players of interest:
22--Mia--H. Whiteside (UFA in 2016)
33--Tot---K. Perkins (for Cowens)
56--Tot----B. Wright (I knew there was a reason we didn't keep him)
68--Clev---K. Love (No love here!)
69--NO-----O. Asik (somewhat surprised by this, but not really)
73--Char---A. Jefferson (we all knew this, so do the Charlotte fans in the stands)
95--Det----G. Monroe (is he really that much of an upgrade over what we already have?)
103-Wash---K. Humphries (just for old time's sake)
104-Clev----A. Varajeo (fading away . . . ?)

gyso

kdp,

Your most recent version seems like a decent list in that the guys at the top of the list are generally the guys who I'd expect to be there, though people can always quibble about order.

DeAndre Jordan is fourth in the league in blocks, so his percentage-at-th- rim score must not be very good for him to wind up 26th on the list. That confirms what I've learned from watching him play, that he is very good at blocking shots as an off-the-ball defender but mediocre at guarding his own guy. Nerlens Noel has a similar adjustment (sixth in blocks, 29th on your list). It goes to show that your list is an improvement over using blocks alone.

A suggestion -- rather than just a straight ranking, it might be useful to see the score you came up with. It would be nice to know whether the difference between, say no. 20 and no. 40 is really small, meaning that the there's not much difference, or more significant, meaning that that the 40th guy is significantly worse in terms of your ranking.

Another suggestion -- I like that you dropped defensive win shares and defensive rating, but one stat you can consider including in your mix is defensive rebounds, since a defensive rebound ends an opponent's possession. The best variation to use is probably defensive rebound percentage, which adjusts for minutes played and pace. DeAndre Jordan would find redemption on your list with that since he leads the league by collecting 32.3 percent of the available defensive rebounds.

It's easy for me to come up with suggestions since I'm not the one doing the work. Kudos for doing the work.

Bass doesn't seem that poor of a defender according to my eye test, but my guess is that he suffers from being undersized in his matchups. Even though he's short for the power forward position, he's good enough as a defender that you can trust him to be a backup center, but I assume that would hurt his score on the ranking.

Gyso,

(Tot) is just a catch all for players who have played for more than one team.

and checking out players is exactly why I thought about doing this.

Outside,

the last list used blocks per game and a stat I found that is FG% differential (meaning how much an opponant shoots beter or worst on FG's when guraded by this player).

I can put the numbers for each "vauation" in also. the hardest part is formatting to this site from a spreadsheet.

I wil look at defensive rebounds % as another row, as I agree it might give a beter overall view of total abiity for big men. though I am purposely keeping rebounds/steals/etc out of the equation for now.

in fact i want to do a run using just blocks per game and Opponeents FG% at the rim as the ONLY two values, to see what comes up. that would be TRUE "rim protectors" to me.

obviously, I enjoy this type of thing so its never work (until it becomes work of course).

kdp,

I thought Tot was short for Toronto, so that really confused me.  Thanks for it's real definition.

Just a couple suggestions that you may find useful:

There are a number of formats that can be "hosted" on this site.  They are for Pictures; bmp, jpg, png, gif, tif, and for HTML; htm, html.  I am surprised that pdf isn't included at this time because it is so universal and has replaced many of the older formats.  You could "save as" from one of your spreadsheets, Excel allows you to save into the htm and html formats.  You could also print out a spreadsheet and then scan it into one of the picture formats and then host it from there.

gyso

thanks Gyso, I will try some of those options

I've tried a bunch of options together, but am not happy with any of them. so I thought I would just list rankings of each of the three categories  that I think are best for rim protectors separately, with the data.

It maybe helpful in the off-season, If Ainge looks to bring in any vet big men at least.

I'll start with the one stat I like best:
opponents FG% at the rim
UFA- Unrestricted Free agent
RFA- restricted Free agent


Rank -Team---Player ---FG% at rim
1----Utah---Rudy Gobert-------39.1
2----GS----Andrew Bogut------40.6
3.---Okl----Serge Ibaka--------40.8
4----Ind-----Roy Hibbert-------42.9
5----Utah---Derrick Favors-----43.8
6----Port----LaMarcus Aldridge--44.9- UFA
7----Phil-----Nerlens Noel--------45.1
8----NY-----Sam Dalembert -----45.4-UFA
9----Hou----Dwight Howard-----45.5
10---NY-----Quincy Acy----------46.0-RFA
11---Char---Bismack Biyombo---46.1-RFA
11---Hou----Terrence Jones -----46.1
11----Mil-----Larry Sanders------46.1-UFA
11--Okl/Clev--Kendrick Perkins---46.1-UFA
15----SA------Tim Duncan--------46.2-UFA
15----Tor----Jonus Valanciunas---46.2
17----Chic-----Taj Gibson---------46.4
18---Wash----Kevin Seraphin-----46.8
19--Den/Clev---Tim Mozgov------47.0
19----GS--------David Lee--------47.0
21----Port-----Robin Lopez-------47.1-UFA
22----Ind-----Ian Mahinmi--------47.2
23----Sac----DeMarcus Cousins---47.4
24--Det/Hou----Josh Smith-------47.5-UFA
25----Den-----Jusuf Nurkic--------47.6
26----SA------Aron Baynes--------47.8-RFA
27----Okl-----Steven Adams------47.9
28----Orl------Klye O'Quinn ------48.1-RFA
29----Mia----Hassan Whiteside---48.2
30----Mil-----John Henson--------48.3
30----Chic-----Pau Gasol---------48.3
30----Ind-----Lavoy Allen--------48.3-UFA
33----Mem---Kosta Koufas-------48.4-UFA
34----NO----Anthony Davis ------48.5
34----LAC---DeAndre Jordan-----48.5-UFA
34----Det---Andre Drummond----48.5
37----GS----Marreese Speights---48.6
38---Wash----Marcin Gortat-------48.7
39---Dal/Bos/Phoe---Brandan Wright---48.9-UFA
39----Hou-----Donatas Motiejunas-----48.9
41----Char-----Cody Zeller---------49.0
42----Phoe ------Alex Len-----------49.2
43----Utah-----Trevor  Booker-----49.3
44----Bkn------Brook Lopez -------49.4
44----Phil------Henry Sims---------49.4-RFA
46----Mem----Marc Gasol----------49.5
46----Atl-------Pero Antic----------49.5-RFA
48----Ind------Luis  Scola----------49.8
49----SA------Tiago Splitter -------50.0
49----NO------Omer Asik----------50.0-UFA
51----Atl------Al  Horford----------50.2
51----Mil-----Ersan  Ilyasova------50.2
53----Mia----Chris  Andersen------50.3
53---Mia/Det---Shawne Williams----50.3
53----LAC------Blake Griffin -------50.3
56----LAC-----Spencer Hawes-----50.4
57----Den-----Darrell Arthur-------50.5
57----LAL------Ryan Kelly----------50.5
57----Atl-------Mike Scott----------50.5
60----Tor-----Patrick Patterson----50.6
61---Phoe/Mil---Miles Plumlee-----50.8
62----NY------Jason Smith---------50.9-UFA
63----Wash-----Nene--------------51.0
64----NO-----Dante Cunningham---51.1-UFA
64---Det/Bos---Jonus Jerebko------51.1-UFA
66----Tor----James Johnson--------51.4
66----Dal----Tyson Chandler-------51.4-UFA
66----Bos----Tyler Zeller-----------51.4
66----Bos----Kelly Olynyk----------51.4
70---NY/Dal---Amare Stoudemire---51.5-UFA
71----Clev----Tristan Thompson-----51.7-RFA
71----Den-----JJ Hickson------------51.7
71----Phil---Luc Mbah a Moute------51.7-UFA
74----Chic-----Joakim Noah ---------51.8
75----Char----Marvin Williams------51.9
75---Bkn/Minn---Kevin Garnett-----51.9-UFA
77----NY------Cole  Aldrich----------52.0-UFA
77---Clev/NY----Lou  Amundson----52.0-UFA
79----Tor------Amir Johnson--------52.2
79----Orl------Channing Frye-------52.2
79----Mil-----Zaza Pachulia --------52.2
82----Port----Chris Kaman----------52.3
82----Bkn----Mirza Teletovic--------52.3-RFA
82----Phoe----Markieff Morris-------52.3
82----LAL-----Carlos Boozer---------52.3-UFA
86----Bos-----Jared Sullinger--------52.5
86----Mem----Zach Randolph--------52.5
88----Mia-----Josh McRoberts--------52.7
88----Phoe----Marcus Morris---------52.7
90----Clev-----Kevin Love------------52.9
91----LAL------Ed Davis--------------53.0
92----Den-----Kenneth Faried-------53.1
92----Okl------Nick Collison ---------53.1
94----Sac-----Jason Thompson------53.3
95----Bos------Brandon Bass--------53.4-UFA
96----Wash----Drew Gooden--------53.5-UFA
97----LAL------Robert Sacre---------53.7
97----Ind-------David  West ---------53.7
97----Sac-------Carl  Landry---------53.7
100---Dal------Dirk Nowitzki--------53.9
101---Orl------Nikola Vucevic-------54.1
101--Wash-----Kris Humphries-----54.1
103--Phil/Bkn--Brandon Davies-----54.4-UFA
103--Phoe/Det--Anthony Toliver----54.4
105--Clev-----Anderson Varajeo----54.6
106---Okl----Mitch McGary----------54.8
106--Mia/Minn--Justin Hamilton----54.8-RFA
108---Det-----Greg Monroe --------54.9-UFA
109---Char----Al Jefferson----------55.1
109--Hou/LAL---Tarik Black --------55.1
111---LAL------Jordan Hill----------55.2
112---Atl-------Paul  Milsap--------55.3-UFA
112---Mia------Chris Bosh---------55.3
114---NO-----Ryan Anderson------55.7
115---Minn----Gorgui Dieng-------55.8
115---Chic----Nikola Mirotic -------55.8
117---Bkn----Mason Plumlee------56.2
118---Mia----Udonis Haslem-------56.3
119---Minn---Nikola Pekovic-------56.5
120--Utah/Okl---Enes Kanter------57.1-RFA
121---Minn----Anthony Bennett----57.2
121---SA------Boris  Diaw----------57.2
123---Sac-----Derrick Williams-----58.0-RFA
124---Sac-----Reggie Evans--------60.1-UFA
125--Atl/Minn---Adreian Payne-----60.7
126----NY-----Andrea Bargnani----60.9-UFA

next will be blocks per 36 min.

Rank -Team----Player------Bkl/36 min
1---Mia---Hassan Whiteside ---3.9
1---Mil----John Henson--------3.9
3---Utah--Rudy Gobert--------3.2
4----NO---Anthony Davis------2.9
4---Char---Bismack Biyombo----2.9 -RFA
6----NY----Sam Dalembert-------2.7 -UFA
7---Okl----Serge Ibaka----------2.6
8---GS-----Andrew Bogut-------2.5
8---Phoe----Alex Len------------2.5
10---Ind----Roy Hibbert---------2.4
10---Hou---Terrence Jones------2.4
10---Mil----Larry Sanders-------2.4 -UFA
10---SA-----Tim Duncan--------2.4 -UFA
10---Den----Jusuf Nurkic-------2.4
10----NY-----Cole Aldrich------2.4 -UFA
16----LAC---DeAndre Jordan----2.3 -UFA
16--Dal/Bos/Phoe--Brandan Wright---2.3-UFA
16----Bkn----Brook Lopez-------2.3
19----Phil----Nerlens Noel-------2.2
20----Det----Andre Drummond---2.1
20----Minn---Gorgui Dieng-------2.1
22----Utah----Derrick Favors-----2.0
22----Chic-----Pau Gasol---------2.0
22--Phoe/Mil--Miles Plumlee------2.0
22----LAL-----Ed Davis-----------2.0
26----Port----Robin Lopez-------1.9 -UFA
26----Tor----James Johnson-----1.9
26--Clev/NY---Lou Amundson----1.9 -UFA
29--Den/Clev--Tim Mozgov -------1.8
29----Sac----DeMarcus Cousins----1.8
29--Det/Hou----Josh Smith --------1.8 -UFA
29---Mem-----Kosta Koufas -------1.8 -UFA
29---Mem-----Marc Gasol----------1.8 -UFA
29---Mia-----Chris Andersen-------1.8
35---Tor---Jonus Valanciunas------1.7
35---Okl----Steven Adams---------1.7
35---Orl-----Klye O'Quinn----------1.7 -RFA
38---Wash---Kevin Seraphin-------1.6
38---Wash---Marcin Gortat---------1.6
40---Hou----Dwight Howard--------1.5
40---Chic----Taj Gibson------------1.5
40----Ind----Lavoy Allen-----------1.5 -UFA
40----Atl-----Al Horford-----------1.5
40----LAC---Spencer Hawes-------1.5
40----Port---Chris Kaman----------1.5
40----Char---Al Jefferson----------1.5
47----Dal----Tyson Chandler------1.4 -UFA
47----Chic----Joakim Noah--------1.4
47----LAL----Robert Sacre--------1.4
50--Okl/Clev---Kendrick Perkins---1.3 -UFA
50----Ind------Ian Mahinmi--------1.3
50----SA------Tiago Splitter -------1.3
50----Bkn----Mason Plumlee------1.3
54----Char-----Cody Zeller--------1.2
54----Chic-----Nikola Mirotic------1.2
54-----NY----Andrea Bargnani-----1.2 -UFA
57-----GS------David Lee----------1.1
57-----GS-----Marreese Speights----1.1
57-----NO------Omer Asik----------1.1 -UFA
57-----Bos-----Tyler Zeller---------1.1
57-----Bos------Kelly Olynyk-------1.1
57---NY/Dal---Amare Stoudemire----1.1-UFA
57----Okl------Mitch McGary--------1.1
64----Port-----LaMarcus Aldridge ---1.0-UFA
64----Clev----Tristan Thompson-----1.0-RFA
64----Den------JJ Hickson-----------1.0
64----Tor-----Amir Johnson --------1.0
64----Den----Kenneth Faried-------1.0
64--Mia/Minn---Justin Hamilton-----1.0-RFA
64----LAL------Jordan Hill-----------1.0
64----Atl-------Paul Milsap ---------1.0-UFA
72----Utah-----Trevor Booker-------0.9
72----Den------Darrell Arthur--------0.9
72----Bos------Jared Sullinger-------0.9
72----Sac------Jason Thompson-----0.9
72-----Ind------David West---------0.9
72-----Clev---Anderson Varajeo-----0.9
78-----NO-----Dante Cunningham----0.8 -UFA
78-----Okl-----Nick Collison-----------0.8
78-----Orl-----Nikola Vucevic---------0.8
78---Hou/LAL---Tarik Black ----------0.8
82-----SA------Aron Baynes ----------0.7-RFA
82-----Tor----Patrick Patterson-------0.7
82-----NY------Jason Smith-----------0.7-UFA
82-----Orl-----Channing Frye---------0.7
82-----Bos-----Brandon Bass---------0.7-UFA
82----Wash----Kris Humphries-------0.7
82----Minn-----Anthony Bennett-----0.7
89-----NY-------Quincy Acy ----------0.6-RFA
89-----Hou---Donatas Motiejunas ----0.6
89-----Phil-------Henry Sims---------0.6-RFA
89-----Mil------Ersan Ilyasova-------0.6
89---Mia/Det---Shawne Williams-----0.6
89-----LAL-------Ryan Kelly ----------0.6
89-----Char-----Marvin Williams------0.6
89--Bkn/Minn---Kevin Garnett-------0.6-UFA
89-----Bkn-----Mirza Teletovic-------0.6-RFA
89-----Sac------Carl Landry---------0.6
89---Phil/Bkn---Brandon Davies-----0.6-UFA
89-----Det------Greg Monroe--------0.6-UFA
89-----Mia-------Chris Bosh ---------0.6
102----Atl--------Pero Antic---------0.5 -RFA
102----LAC-----Blake Griffin--------0.5
102----Wash-----Nene--------------0.5
102---Det/Bos--Jonus Jerebko-----0.5 -UFA
102----Phoe----Markieff Morris-----0.5
102----Clev-----Kevin Love---------0.5
102----Dal-----Dirk Nowitzki--------0.5
102----Minn---Nikola Pekovic-------0.5
102--Utah/Okl---Enes Kanter-------0.5 -RFA
111----Ind-------Luis Scola---------0.4
111----Phil----Luc Mbah a Moute----0.4- UFA
111----Mil-----Zaza Pachulia---------0.4
111----Mia----Josh McRoberts-------0.4
111---Wash----Drew Gooden--------0.4- UFA
111--Phoe/Det---Anthony Toliver----0.4
111----NO-------Ryan Anderson------0.4
111----Mia------Udonis Haslem-------0.4
111----SA-------Boris Diaw----------0.4
111--Atl/Minn---Adreian Payne-------0.4
121----Phoe-----Marcus Morris-------0.3
122-----LAL-----Carlos Boozer--------0.2- UFA
122----Mem-----Zach Randolph------0.2
122----Sac-------Reggie Evans-------0.2- UFA
125----Atl--------Mike Scott ----------0.1
125----Sac-----Derrick Williams------0.1- RFA

now to complete this exercise, I will combine the final FG% at rim and blocks per 36 min. I feel this gives us a good snapshot of the best "rim protecting" big men in the NBA this season. Keep in mind they may of may not be the best over all defensive players, just rim protection.

Rank -Team--Player
1--Utah---Rudy Gobert
2--GS-----Andrew Bogut
3--Okl-----Serge Ibaka
4--Ind-----Roy Hibbert
5---NY-----Sam Dalembert-UFA
6---Char---Bismack Biyombo-RFA
7---Hou----Terrence Jones
8---Mil-----Larry Sanders-UFA
9---SA-----Tim Duncan-UFA
10--Phil----Nerlens Noel
11--Utah---Derrick Favors
12---Mia---Hassan Whiteside
13---Mil----John Henson
14---Den---Jusuf Nurkic
15---NO----Anthony Davis
16---Port---Robin Lopez-UFA
17--Den/Clev---Tim Mozgov
18---Hou----Dwight Howard
19---Tor----Jonus Valanciunas
20---LAC---DeAndre Jordan-UFA
21---Phoe---Alex Len
22---Sac----DeMarcus Cousins
23---Chic----Pau Gasol
24---Det/Hou--Josh Smith-UFA
25---Det----Andre Drummond
26-Dal/Bos/Phoe--Brandan Wright-UFA
27---Wash---Kevin Seraphin
28---Chic----Taj Gibson
29---Bkn----Brook Lopez
30--Okl/Clev--Kendrick Perkins-UFA
31---Okl----Steven Adams
32---Mem---Kosta Koufas-UFA
33---Orl-----Klye O'Quinn-RFA
34---Port----LaMarcus Aldridge-UFA
35---Ind-----Lavoy Allen-UFA
36---Ind-----Ian Mahinmi
37---Mem----Marc Gasol-UFA
38---GS------David Lee
39---Wash---Marcin Gortat
40---Mia-----Chris Andersen
41--Phoe/Mil--Miles Plumlee
42---NY------Cole Aldrich-UFA
43---Atl------Al Horford
44---Tor-----James Johnson
45---GS------Marreese Speights
46---Char----Cody Zeller
47---LAC-----Spencer Hawes
48---NY------Quincy Acy-RFA
49---SA------Tiago Splitter
50--Clev/NY---Lou Amundson-UFA
51---NO------Omer Asik-UFA
52---SA------Aron Baynes-RFA
53---Dal-----Tyson Chandler-UFA
54---LAL-----Ed Davis
55---Utah----Trevor Booker
56---Chic-----Joakim Noah
57---Port-----Chris Kaman
58---Bos-----Tyler Zeller
59---Bos-----Kelly Olynyk
60--NY/Dal---Amare Stoudemire-UFA
61---Hou-----Donatas Motiejunas
62---Den-----Darrell Arthur
63---Phil-----Henry Sims-RFA

The following players are BELOW average rim protectors

64---Clev---Tristan Thompson-RFA
65---Den----JJ Hickson
66---Minn---Gorgui Dieng
67---Mil-----Ersan Ilyasova
68--Mia/Det--Shawne Williams
69---Tor-----Patrick Patterson
70---NO-----Dante Cunningham-UFA
71---Tor-----Amir Johnson
72---NY-----Jason Smith-UFA
73---LAL----Robert Sacre
74---LAL----Ryan Kelly
75---Atl-----Pero Antic-RFA
76---Char---Al Jefferson
77---LAC----Blake Griffin
78---Den----Kenneth Faried
79---Bos----Jared Sullinger
80---Ind-----Luis Scola
81---Orl-----Channing Frye
82---Okl-----Mitch McGary
83---Char---Marvin Williams
84--Bkn/Minn--Kevin Garnett-UFA
85---Wash----Nene
86--Det/Bos---Jonus Jerebko-UFA
87---Sac----Jason Thompson
88---Bkn----Mason Plumlee
89---Ind-----David West
90---Chic----Nikola Mirotic
91---Okl-----Nick Collison
92--Mia/Minn--Justin Hamilton-RFA
93---Bkn-----Mirza Teletovic-RFA
94---LAL-----Jordan Hill
95---Atl-----Paul Milsap-UFA
96---Bos----Brandon Bass-UFA
97---Clev---Anderson Varajeo
98---Orl-----Nikola Vucevic
99---NY-----Andrea Bargnani-UFA
100--Atl-----Mike Scott
101--Phil--Luc Mbah a Moute-UFA
102--Wash---Kris Humphries
103--Phoe---Markieff Morris
104--Sac-----Carl Landry
105--Hou/LAL--Tarik Black
106---Mil-----Zaza Pachulia
107---Clev----Kevin Love
108--Phil/Bkn--Brandon Davies-UFA
109---Det----Greg Monroe-UFA
110---Mia----Josh McRoberts
111---Mia----Chris Bosh
112---Dal----Dirk Nowitzki
113--Minn---Anthony Bennett
114---LAL----Carlos Boozer-UFA
115---Wash---Drew Gooden-UFA
116---Mem----Zach Randolph
117---Phoe----Marcus Morris
118--Phoe/Det---Anthony Toliver
119---Minn----Nikola Pekovic
120--Utah/Okl--Enes Kanter-RFA
121----NO----Ryan Anderson
122----Mia----Udonis Haslem
123----SA-----Boris Diaw
124--Atl/Minn--Adreian Payne
125----Sac----Reggie Evans-UFA
126----Sac----Derrick Williams-RFA


Hopefully this will be helpful when looking at potential "rim protecting" big men that could be available this off-season.

there are a few surprises , but mostly I think it also passes the eye test for most of the players on the list.

Pekovic to have Achilles surgery.

Man, that is a bad, bad injury to have. Fortunately, he never relied upon the springs in his legs for his play. Still, I think this would take him off of any list I would keep.


bob


.

I would say ANY player below #63 would be a player I would stay away from.

Pekovic was already #119, I doubt the injury can make him much worst.

but another bad extension/signing for Minny I guess when they extended him.

I thought it might be nice to compare last seasons numbers here also.

so here is the list based on last years FG% at rim and Blocks per 36 min.

Rank---Team-----Player
1---Char----Bismark Biyombo
2---Ind------Roy Hibbert
3---Mil-------Larry Sanders
4---Okl-------Serge Ibaka
5--Clev/Ind---Andrew Bynum
6---Minn------Ronny Turiaf
7---Bkn-------Brook Lopez
8---GS--------Andrew Bogut
9---Mem------James Johnson
10---Orl-------Kyle O'Quinn
11---Ind------Ian Mahinmi
12---LAL------Chris Kaman
13--Port------Robin Lopez
14---Bos-----Vitor Faverani
15---Mil------John Henson
16---Den-----Tomifey Mozgov
17---SA------Tim Duncan
18---NO------Anthony Davis
19---Chic-----Taj Gibson
20---Mil------Ekpe Udoh
21---Mem----Ed Davis
22---Mia-----Chris Andersen
23---Mem----Kosta Koufos
24---Hou-----Dwight Howard
25---LAC-----DeAndre Jordan
26---Chic----Joakim Noah
27---Hou-----Omar Asik
28---Atl------Elton Brand
29---Atl------Al Horford
30---GS-----Jermaine O'Neal
31---NY------Andrea Bargnani
32---Okl-----Steven Adams
33---Den-----Darrell Arthur
34---Det-----Josh Smith
35---Bkn-----Kevin Garnett
36---Minn----Gorgui Dieng
37---Okl------Kendrick Perkins
38---Tor------Amir Johnson
39---LAL------Robert Sacre
40---NO------Greg Stiemsma
41---NO------Alexis Ajinca
42---Wash---Marcin Gortat
43---Phoe----Miles Plumlee
44---Ind-----David West
45---Dal-----Sam Dalembert
46---Utah----Derrick Favors
47---Phil/Ind---Lavoy Allen
48---Den-----Quincy Miller
49---Clev-----Tyler Zeller
50---SA------Tiago Splitter
51---Phil------Arnett Moultrie
52---Chic/Phil---Jarvis Varnado
53---NY-------Kenyon Martin
54---Bos------Kris Humphries
55---Hou-----Terrence Jones
56---NY-------Tyson Chandler
57---LAl-------Jordan Hill
58---Det------Andre Drummond
59---Orl-------Andrew Nicholson
60---Sac------DeMarcus Cousins
61---Sac------Jason Thompson
62---Mem-----Marc Gasol
63---Den------Kenneth Faried
64---NO-------Jason Smith
65---Okl-------Nick Collison
66---Dal-------Brandan Wright
67---Port------LaMarcus Aldridge

Below average rim protectors

68----NY------Amar'e Stoudemire
69---LAL------Pau Gasol
70---Bkn------Mason Plumlee
71--Char/Mil---Jeff Adrien
72---Tor------Jonas Valanciunas
73---Hou-----Donatas Motiejunas
74---Utah----Marvin Williams
75---Port------Joel Freeland
76--Phil/Clev--Spencer Hawes
77---Char------Al Jefferson
78--Wash/Den---Jan Vesely
79---Atl--------Paul Milsap
80--Tor/Sac---Quincy Acy
81--LAL------Shawnee Williams
82---Mia------Chris Bosh
83---Den-----JJ Hickson
84--Clev/Phil---Henry Sims
85--Phoe------Channing Frye
86---Bos------Brandon Bass
87---Minn----Dante Cunningham
88---Atl--------Pero Antic
89---GS-------David Lee
90---Orl-------Jason Maxiell
91---Bkn------Mirza Teletovic
92--Sac/Minn---Luc Mbah a Moute
93----Bos------Jared Sullinger
94---Wash------Trevor Booker
95----Det-------Greg Monroe
96----Wash------Nene
97----Utah------Enes Kanter
98----Wash-----Drew Gooden
99----Atl-------Gustavo Ayon
100--Tor-------Tyler Hansbrough
101---Dal-------Dirk Nowitzki
102--Sac/Tor----Patrick Patterson
103--Clev------Anderson Varejao
104---Bkn------Andray Blatche
105---Char-----Josh McRoberts
106---Char------Cody Zeller
107--Orl/LAC----Glen Davis
108---LAL-------Ryan Kelly
109---LAC-------Blake Griffin
110---Orl--------Nikola Vucevic
111---Char------Anthony Toliver
112---Phoe------Markieff Morris
113---NO-------Al-Faroug Aminu
114---Bos-------Kelly Olynyk
115---Mia-------Udonis Haslem
116---NO-------Ryan Anderson
117---Dal-------DeJuan Blair
118---Bkn------Andei Kirilenko
119---Minn-----Nikola Pekovic
120---Mem-----Zach Randolph
121---Ind-------Luis Scola
122---Mem-----Jon Leuer
123---SA-------Boris Diaw
124---Chic-----Carlos Boozer
125---Mil-------Ersan Ilasova
126--Minn------Kevin Love
127--Mia-------Rashard Lewis
128--Clev------Tristan Thompson
129--Mil--------Zaza Pachulia
130--Phil-------Thaddeus Young
131--Phoe------Marcus Morris
132--Minn/Sac---Derrick Williams
133--Atl---------Mike Scott
134--Wash------Al Harrington
135--Bkn/Sac---Reggie Evans

Blocks is a very misleading stat. It catches the eye, and passes the eye test, but that's why it's so misleading.

Similarly, steals are also very misleading. Rondo admitted himself that he hadn't been trying on defense for a few years, after he was traded to DAL.

Rondo's supporters in Boston would always point to his consistently high steal rate and insist that he was still a good or even elite defender. Meanwhile, in the real world, all Rondo was doing was going for the steal just about every freaking time. He'd let his man drive right by him in a lazy attempt to poke the ball away from behind. Sometimes this worked, enough to make his stats look good, trick his supporters, and trick Hollywood Mark Cuban into trading for him.

Blocks can be just as misleading. A stats and Sportscenter driven defender can just go for the block every time without discipline and without thinking about the team defense. They can pad their block stats, but then the majority of the time fall for pump fakes, get blown by after the pump fake, or go for a block they have a miniscule chance of blocking, while removing themselves from decent rebound/box out position.

Rebounding stats can also be very misleading. Kevin Love for years would never contest a single shot basically, and turn around to box out as soon as his man went into shooting motion. It made him look like an amazing rebounder, but his terrible defense only showed up in the advanced stats.

The goal isn't to get the best rim protecting center anyway. The goal is to win as many games as possible and to win championships. By any means possible, not by getting precise roles out of every specific position.

What good is an elite shot blocking center if they don't lead to wins, or upgrade the center position over an offensive standout like Zeller and KO? If the elite shot blocking center doesn't actually improve the team's record, plus minus contribution from the center position, and our ability to win a championship, then that shot blocking center hasn't improved anything.

Right now our most glaring weakness is shotblocking, but if getting an outstanding shot blocker creates equally glaring but different team weakness(es), then we're just treading water at best.

And the advanced stats might actually show that our elite shot blocker isn't actually a good defender overall. He may even be terrible despite his gaudy block stats. Gogui Dieng falls into this category. He gets pushed around like a rag doll/doormat, despite his flashy block stats.

The reason Anthony Davis doesn't show up among leaders in FG% allowed at the rim is because he is rail thin and gets pushed around down low, even though he's a great shot blocker and help defender. He's still a good defender overall, but not as good as sportscenter highlights or blocks stats would indicate.

I'm not a stats guru, but the best stat for measuring defense may be one not listed yet, which is defensive real plus minus. It's similar to plus minus, but it accounts for every teammate on the floor and maybe even every opponent.

Overall plus minus is an important stat, though it can be misleading based on who a player is playing with. But overall real plus minus may just be the best stat to measure a player's quality, assuming the foremost goal is quality and victories, which it should be.

Defensive real plus minus may be the best stat to measure defensive impact. Certainly a better stat than blocks or FG% at the rim.

to be continued below

Here are the rankings of defensive real plus minus. Keep in mind that overall real plus minus is a much more important stat:
RK NAME TEAM GP MPG ORPM DRPM RPM WAR
1 Andrew Bogut GS 67 23.6 -1.34 5.59 4.25 6.69
2 DeMarcus Cousins SAC 59 34.1 1.38 4.76 6.14 10.89
3 Jusuf Nurkic DEN 62 17.8 -1.70 3.95 2.25 3.28
4 Kosta Koufos MEM 81 16.6 -2.55 3.73 1.18 2.93
5 Rudy Gobert UTAH 82 26.3 -1.65 3.64 1.99 5.56
6 Zaza Pachulia MIL 73 23.7 1.34 3.56 4.90 7.76
7 Tyson Chandler DAL 75 30.5 1.22 3.52 4.74 10.22
8 Nerlens Noel PHI 75 30.8 -4.89 3.37 -1.52 1.21
9 Marcin Gortat WSH 82 29.9 -0.43 2.77 2.34 7.10
10 Joel Anthony DET 49 8.3 -1.82 2.69 0.87 0.80
11 Timofey Mozgov CLE/DEN 81 25.3 -0.42 2.68 2.26 5.91
12 Tiago Splitter SA 52 19.8 0.75 2.67 3.42 3.66
13 Ian Mahinmi IND 61 18.8 -3.22 2.48 -0.74 1.14
14 Roy Hibbert IND 76 25.3 -2.47 2.44 -0.03 2.70
15 Marc Gasol MEM 81 33.2 1.76 2.29 4.05 10.39
16 Dewayne Dedmon ORL 59 14.3 -2.80 2.21 -0.59 0.92
17 Alex Len PHX 69 22.0 -2.89 2.18 -0.71 1.62
18 Joakim Noah CHI 67 30.6 -1.38 2.02 0.64 3.76
19 Omer Asik NO 76 26.1 -3.01 1.86 -1.15 1.45
20 DeAndre Jordan LAC 82 34.4 2.07 1.85 3.92 11.12
21 Robin Lopez POR 59 27.8 -0.73 1.79 1.06 3.48
22 Kelly Olynyk BOS 64 22.3 1.83 1.75 3.58 5.34
23 Hassan Whiteside MIA 48 23.8 -0.97 1.65 0.68 2.10
24 Meyers Leonard POR 55 15.4 -2.36 1.63 -0.73 0.86
25 Bismack Biyombo CHA 64 19.4 -2.58 1.59 -0.99 1.02
26 Robert Sacre LAL 67 16.9 -2.60 1.59 -1.01 0.93
27 Steven Adams OKC 70 25.3 -2.73 1.58 -1.15 1.33
28 Dwight Howard HOU 41 29.8 0.07 1.54 1.61 3.05
29 Cole Aldrich NY 61 16.0 -4.80 1.51 -3.29 -0.55
30 Joel Freeland POR 48 12.9 -1.76 1.48 -0.28 0.79
31 Tyler Zeller BOS 82 21.1 -0.79 1.39 0.60 3.27
32 John Henson MIL 67 18.3 -4.01 1.32 -2.69 -0.26
33 Kendrick Perkins CLE/OKC 68 16.9 -4.99 1.24 -3.75 -1.01
34 Aron Baynes SA 70 16.0 -1.22 1.09 -0.13 1.57
35 Al Horford ATL 76 30.5 0.67 1.05 1.72 5.75
36 Jonas Valanciunas TOR 80 26.2 -1.72 1.05 -0.67 2.18
37 Joey Dorsey HOU 69 12.4 -2.29 1.00 -1.29 0.58
38 Nikola Pekovic MIN 31 26.3 -0.50 0.99 0.49 1.45
39 Alexis Ajinca NO 68 14.1 -1.00 0.89 -0.11 1.27
40 Andre Drummond DET 82 30.5 -0.09 0.83 0.74 4.75

Here's overall real plus minus for centers, perhaps the single most important stat:

RK NAME TEAM GP MPG ORPM DRPM RPM WAR
1 DeMarcus Cousins SAC 59 34.1 1.38 4.76 6.14 10.89
2 Zaza Pachulia MIL 73 23.7 1.34 3.56 4.90 7.76
3 Tyson Chandler DAL 75 30.5 1.22 3.52 4.74 10.22
4 Andrew Bogut GS 67 23.6 -1.34 5.59 4.25 6.69
5 Marc Gasol MEM 81 33.2 1.76 2.29 4.05 10.39
6 DeAndre Jordan LAC 82 34.4 2.07 1.85 3.92 11.12
7 Kelly Olynyk BOS 64 22.3 1.83 1.75 3.58 5.34
8 Tiago Splitter SA 52 19.8 0.75 2.67 3.42 3.66
9 Marcin Gortat WSH 82 29.9 -0.43 2.77 2.34 7.10
10 Timofey Mozgov CLE/DEN 81 25.3 -0.42 2.68 2.26 5.91
11 Jusuf Nurkic DEN 62 17.8 -1.70 3.95 2.25 3.28
12 Rudy Gobert UTAH 82 26.3 -1.65 3.64 1.99 5.56
13 Al Horford ATL 76 30.5 0.67 1.05 1.72 5.75
14 Dwight Howard HOU 41 29.8 0.07 1.54 1.61 3.05
15 Kosta Koufos MEM 81 16.6 -2.55 3.73 1.18 2.93
16 Robin Lopez POR 59 27.8 -0.73 1.79 1.06 3.48
17 Joel Anthony DET 49 8.3 -1.82 2.69 0.87 0.80
18 Andre Drummond DET 82 30.5 -0.09 0.83 0.74 4.75
19 Chris Bosh MIA 44 35.4 0.69 -0.01 0.68 2.82
20 Hassan Whiteside MIA 48 23.8 -0.97 1.65 0.68 2.10
21 Tristan Thompson CLE 82 26.8 1.63 -0.97 0.66 3.98
22 Joakim Noah CHI 67 30.6 -1.38 2.02 0.64 3.76
23 Tyler Zeller BOS 82 21.1 -0.79 1.39 0.60 3.27
24 Nikola Pekovic MIN 31 26.3 -0.50 0.99 0.49 1.45
25 Roy Hibbert IND 76 25.3 -2.47 2.44 -0.03 2.70
26 Boris Diaw SA 81 24.5 -0.36 0.27 -0.09 2.75
27 Alexis Ajinca NO 68 14.1 -1.00 0.89 -0.11 1.27
28 Aron Baynes SA 70 16.0 -1.22 1.09 -0.13 1.57
29 Chuck Hayes TOR 29 8.8 -0.33 0.10 -0.23 0.34
30 Joel Freeland POR 48 12.9 -1.76 1.48 -0.28 0.79
31 Brook Lopez BKN 72 29.2 -0.68 0.23 -0.45 2.41
32 Mason Plumlee BKN 82 21.3 -0.23 -0.26 -0.49 1.95
33 Dewayne Dedmon ORL 59 14.3 -2.80 2.21 -0.59 0.92
34 Jonas Valanciunas TOR 80 26.2 -1.72 1.05 -0.67 2.18
35 Alex Len PHX 69 22.0 -2.89 2.18 -0.71 1.62
36 Meyers Leonard POR 55 15.4 -2.36 1.63 -0.73 0.86
37 Ian Mahinmi IND 61 18.8 -3.22 2.48 -0.74 1.14
38 Gorgui Dieng MIN 73 30.0 -1.49 0.62 -0.87 2.03
39 Al Jefferson CHA 65 30.6 -1.48 0.59 -0.89 1.78
40 Bismack Biyombo CHA 64 19.4 -2.58 1.59 -0.99 1.02

And here is Offensive real plus minus for centers:

RK NAME TEAM GP MPG ORPM DRPM RPM WAR
1 DeAndre Jordan LAC 82 34.4 2.07 1.85 3.92 11.12
2 Kelly Olynyk BOS 64 22.3 1.83 1.75 3.58 5.34
3 Marc Gasol MEM 81 33.2 1.76 2.29 4.05 10.39
4 Tristan Thompson CLE 82 26.8 1.63 -0.97 0.66 3.98
5 DeMarcus Cousins SAC 59 34.1 1.38 4.76 6.14 10.89
6 Zaza Pachulia MIL 73 23.7 1.34 3.56 4.90 7.76
7 Tyson Chandler DAL 75 30.5 1.22 3.52 4.74 10.22
8 Enes Kanter OKC/UTAH 75 28.5 1.12 -3.88 -2.76 -0.55
9 Tiago Splitter SA 52 19.8 0.75 2.67 3.42 3.66
10 Chris Bosh MIA 44 35.4 0.69 -0.01 0.68 2.82
11 Al Horford ATL 76 30.5 0.67 1.05 1.72 5.75
12 Marreese Speights GS 76 15.9 0.29 -1.44 -1.15 0.96
13 Dwight Howard HOU 41 29.8 0.07 1.54 1.61 3.05
14 Amar'e Stoudemire DAL/NY 59 21.1 -0.04 -1.10 -1.14 0.90
15 Andre Drummond DET 82 30.5 -0.09 0.83 0.74 4.75
16 Mason Plumlee BKN 82 21.3 -0.23 -0.26 -0.49 1.95
17 Chuck Hayes TOR 29 8.8 -0.33 0.10 -0.23 0.34
18 Boris Diaw SA 81 24.5 -0.36 0.27 -0.09 2.75
19 Timofey Mozgov CLE/DEN 81 25.3 -0.42 2.68 2.26 5.91
20 Marcin Gortat WSH 82 29.9 -0.43 2.77 2.34 7.10
21 Nikola Pekovic MIN 31 26.3 -0.50 0.99 0.49 1.45
22 Brook Lopez BKN 72 29.2 -0.68 0.23 -0.45 2.41
23 Robin Lopez POR 59 27.8 -0.73 1.79 1.06 3.48
24 Tyler Zeller BOS 82 21.1 -0.79 1.39 0.60 3.27
25 Jeff Withey NO 37 7.0 -0.86 -0.71 -1.57 0.12
26 Lucas Nogueira TOR 6 3.8 -0.92 -0.34 -1.26 0.02
27 Hassan Whiteside MIA 48 23.8 -0.97 1.65 0.68 2.10
28 Alexis Ajinca NO 68 14.1 -1.00 0.89 -0.11 1.27
29 Reggie Evans SAC 47 16.3 -1.07 -0.07 -1.14 0.56
30 Nazr Mohammed CHI 23 5.6 -1.21 -0.13 -1.34 0.08
31 Aron Baynes SA 70 16.0 -1.22 1.09 -0.13 1.57
32 Greg Stiemsma TOR 17 3.9 -1.25 -0.65 -1.90 0.02
33 Andrew Bogut GS 67 23.6 -1.34 5.59 4.25 6.69
34 Joakim Noah CHI 67 30.6 -1.38 2.02 0.64 3.76
35 Matt Bonner SA 72 13.0 -1.43 -2.55 -3.98 -0.94
36 Al Jefferson CHA 65 30.6 -1.48 0.59 -0.89 1.78
37 Nikola Vucevic ORL 74 34.2 -1.48 -0.34 -1.82 0.84
38 Gorgui Dieng MIN 73 30.0 -1.49 0.62 -0.87 2.03
39 Rudy Gobert UTAH 82 26.3 -1.65 3.64 1.99 5.56
40 Jusuf Nurkic DEN 62 17.8 -1.70 3.95 2.25 3.28

Real plus minus is undoubtedly a flawed stat like every other stat, but it's certainly a very important one, and perhaps THE most important one.

If a team simply plays very well while player x is on the floor, or the team plays very poorly while they are on the floor, what could matter more?

Andre Drummond has a reputation as a defensive monster, but he plays without discipline, heart, and intelligence. He's also admitted that he sometimes misses bunnies on purpose so he can improve his rebounding stats.

So it's not a huge surprise that Drummond would rank very low in defensive real plus minus, even if it is a bit of a surprise that he ranks rock bottom.

The biggest flaw of real plus minus is probably that you cannot fully separate a player's performance from that of his teammates, especially when a player plays in one consistent role all season.

For instance, we wouldn't expect DeAndre Jordan to have the highest offensive real plus minus in the league, or Kelly Olynyk to have the second best offensive real plus minus.

Both players played in very consistent roles: DeAndre as a starter alongside CP3, Blake, and Reddick, three outstanding offensive players.

And KO came off the bench almost every game, the last couple dozen of which were alongside ultimate 6th man Isaiah Thomas.

And KO playing more against bench players than starters would make him look better than if he was a starter.

But it's a very useful stat none-the-less.

Our starting power forward, Brandon Bass, ranked near the very bottom of the league in real plus minus among power forwards:

54 Brandon Bass BOS 82 27.6 -1.49 -0.43 -1.92 - .61

Jared Sullinger, our talented youngster with conditioning, attitude, and injury concerns, comes in well ahead of Bass at:
23 Jared Sullinger BOS 74 27.6 -0.25 1.58 1.33 4.69

But given all of Sullinger's red flags, and the fact that he's a free agent to be next summer, and the fact that quality power forwards are a less-rare commodity than quality centers, we may be looking at the wrong position (center) in our search for roster improvements.

Zeller and KO are both solid centers, and they're both young and getting better/stronger/smarter/more skilled/more confident.

When you consider that quality power forwards are generally more plentiful than quality centers, and the fact that we already have two quality centers, along with Sullinger who can play center at a roughly average level, Danny may want to look for an upgrade at power forward first, and he can look for the same traits we've been looking for at center: defense, rim protection, and rebounding.

this stat is on espn by the way. I can't link because I'm a new poster. You might need to do a google search of "nba real plus minus" to find it.

They list Evan Turner as a shooting guard, rather than small forward, but the real plus minus numbers do not look good for Turner. 45th among shooting guards:

45 Evan Turner BOS 82 27.6 -1.10 -0.26 -1.36 1.41

Jae Crowder, listed as a SF, doesn't stand out at all:
32 Jae Crowder BOS/DAL 82 20.1 0.58 -1.07 -0.49 1.94

Clearly, our small forward position could use an upgrade, and Crowder may or may not be worth the 7-9 million it might take to retain him.

Jeff Green, who often passed the eye test and was considered by many to be our second best player last year, comes out looking terrible in real plus minus among small forwards:

76 Jeff Green BOS/MEM 78 31.5 -1.54 -2.35 -3.89 -2.35

And Tobias Harris, rumored to be a big money free agent target of Danny Ainge, doesn't look much better:

57 Tobias Harris ORL 68 34.8 -0.34 -2.21 -2.55 -0.29

Marcus Smart finished an impressive 12th among point guards, and would have been 13th among shooting guards if listed there. For a rookie, that's amazing.

Isaiah Thomas finished 20th among point guards, and Avery Bradley, listed among point guards for some reason, was tied for 31st among shooting guards, tied with the aging DWade.

Ranking our needs by position is tricky, because of the unorthodox roles played by our starters.
Our point guard, Smart, mostly played off the ball, and our small forward, Turner, was usually our point guard.
And our shooting guard, Bradley, usually guarded point guards, while our shooting guard, Smart usually defended shooting guards and defended that position significantly better than point guards. This is an important last point, because simply sliding Bradley out of the starting lineup would be a clear defensive downgrade at PG with Smart defending that position full time and against the hyper athletic starting point guards.

But to my eye, Smart is clearly an above average shooting guard already, and makes a great secondary ball handler already. And Bradley is solid if not spectacular.

So ranking positions of need is very tricky indeed. You could say we're set at point guard, but you could also say we could very much use a starting point guard who can shoot, and who can play above average defense, bumping Bradley from the lineup.

Adding such a player, while not easy to get, would also eliminate our need to start Turner at Small forward, where he clearly is not even an average starting player.

But acquiring quality point guards and small forwards is definitely easier than acquiring centers who would be a real upgrade over Zeller and KO.

Without giving it too much thought, I'd view our positional draft needs as:

1) Small Forward: Crowder, Gigi, and Turner are all solid bench guys, but none are starter material.

2) Point Guard: Smart's defense at sg is already elite, and point guard duties take up energy and effort that he could otherwise spend on defense and scoring.

3) Power Forward: Sullinger decent but unpredictable, and in the last year of his contract. Also, his defense is below average, and our two quality centers are both better on offense than defense. KO can play power forward, but he's a question mark as a starter next year, and he has thrived off the bench at center.

4) Center. Our strength at this position is depth, but we could use an upgrade at starter. It's just that finding such a player isn't easy, even if the grass looks greener on the other side of the fence. We could also use a strong, big center off the bench for situational use against the big boys of the league.

5) Shooting guard. Smart looks like a star in the making here, but he is just one guy, and he is also very solid at point guard, and not terrible at SF either. Bradley is solid, and Turner is competent, and James Young is there on the bench, with lots of scoring potential.

To get back more on track with the spirit of this thread, and given that finding a clear cut Overall improvement at center is the hardest thing to do, I'd like to look at power forwards and even small forwards who can provide some of the rim protection, overall defense, and rebounding that we need, while actually being better overall than some of our guys.

But first, looking at center free agents, Tyson Chandler stands out as a player who would quite probably upgrade our team at center, based on his real plus minus both this year and last year with the Knicks.

The tricky part is that Chandler is aging, and this year we saw Joakim Noah's real plus minus drop off a cliff, going from #1 among centers down to the 20s. It's just a matter of time before something similar happens to Chandler, but he certainly might be worth a one year max deal or something.

Roy Hibbert dropped from 18th among centers to 25th, but some of that probably had to do with Paul George being injured.
Another factor that may have been affecting Hibbert is less easy to measure. We've heard that he's a sensitive guy who gets easily distracted and hung up on things off the court. But we also heard that Lance Stephenson would bully him really bad last year, so much so that our own Evan Turner had a fist fight with Lance to stand up for Hibbert.

It's entirely possible that Hibbert was simply in a bad locker room environment these last couple years, and while he got distracted and didn't play very well overall, it's possible that Hibbert would play significantly better in a fresh environment. And we know Stevens is good at turning players' careers around, as he already did with Turner, Humphries, and Jordan Crawford last year.

Hibbert was still a standout defensively last year, and his biggest issue was making the offense worse.
Another reason to strongly consider signing Hibbert is the fact that he would compliment Isaiah Thomas very well in the starting lineup. Thomas' offensive real plus minus was very good, while his defensive RPM was very low. Hibbert is the opposite, and signing him could solve our #2 and #4 team needs at the same time.

"Could" being the operative word. Because it's entirely possible, and perhaps even probable, that Hibbert would not be an overall upgrade over Zeller and even KO, except situationally. But even situational improvement against certain matchups would be a great addition. Just a question of money, and what the intangible factors are that we might not ever hear about as fans.