Re: Souring on The Ainges

by **rambone** Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:08 pm

As far as Marcus Thornton, he's actually really growing on me, and I completely understand the pick now.

He really does have it all as a scorer, he just didn't get a lot of exposure in college, and he was a bit of a late bloomer.

Gilbert Arenas and Monta Ellis, and a lot of other good combo-guard scorers were drafted in the second round, and Thornton really does have the full package to at least be a really good 6th man scorer like IT4.

He scores with ease and efficiency from every level, and he's just about as athletic as any guard in the NBA. He's got good ball handling, can get wherever he wants to go, and he can rise up above defenders, whether at the rim or further out. He puts his 43" vertical leaping ability to use in his jump shot, getting a lot higher than most other players. He's going to be able to get his shot off at will even at the NBA level, and he has all the scoring and pure shooting ability you could ask for.

And post-Warriors Championship, Thornton is going to get much more of a fair shot than he would have previously, when a poor-man's Dwayne Wade type was more valuable than a poor-man's Stephen Curry type.

Yes, I'm very excited about our 45th pick, and you probably will be too once the summer league games start.

by **steve3344** Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:10 pm

rambone wrote:Oldschool, if Upshaw dropped dead on the basketball court, the media would crucify Ainge, Brad, and Celtics ownership. They'd say, "this is the third time" a Celtic dropped dead.

They'd say, "there were so many warning signs", etc etc.
Or what if he goes Aaron Hernandez? Think about the damage that case did to the Patriots as a franchise.

Then there's the laziness of Upshaw, which Brad, being quite possibly the best developmental basketball coach in the world, knew would be a very bad influence on young Celtics like James Young and other young guys.

You don't build a winning culture with losers. Sully was under the influence of Rondo and Green, both who had quit on the team long before they were traded. How did those guys rub off on Sully? He gained like 20 lbs, right in the middle of the season.

Also, Danny didn't draft Upshaw, but he drafted literally the next best thing as far as shot blocking, in Jordan Mickey.

You can get rim protection from positions other than center, especially when you're blessed with two talented offensive centers. Getting our rim protection from PF in Mickey and Amir Johnson is going to work out just fine, and as i've said before, our defense wasn't even the problem last year. The team's biggest weakness was the offense of the starting five, and Ainge addressed that in Rozier.

"What if he goes Aaron Hernandez?" Geez. When was the last time an active NBA player killed anyone? To bring that up as a possibility is just absurd. And as far as dropping dead on a basketball court, no team would ever let a player with a significant health risk suit up and play anymore. They will be checked out thoroughly beforehand and teams will go to extreme lengths to make sure everyone they put out there has been medically cleared to play.

by **rambone** Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:11 pm

bobheckler wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:History has shown you can win without an offensive dominant big at the 5, however you can't win night in and night out in the NBA without a dominant defensive 5.

Cow,

Golden State, 2015. Bogut sat,
San Antonio Spurs. 2014. Splitter isn't a great individual defender.
Miami Heat, 2013. Bosh, an offensive-oriented toothpick.

There's 3 out of the last 3 champions.

How far back in history do we have to go before we can claim what history proves, and then keep marching backwards from there? This is a different league. Howard and Jordan, with strong teams supporting them, lost.

bob

.

Yeah, I didn't see DeAndre Jordan or Dwight Howard getting to the finals, and they both had major star power on their teams. Andre Drummond can't even seem to make much of a positive impact on his teams, much less carry them to the playoffs in the weak east.

by **rambone** Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:13 pm

steve3344 wrote:
rambone wrote:Oldschool, if Upshaw dropped dead on the basketball court, the media would crucify Ainge, Brad, and Celtics ownership. They'd say, "this is the third time" a Celtic dropped dead.

They'd say, "there were so many warning signs", etc etc.
Or what if he goes Aaron Hernandez? Think about the damage that case did to the Patriots as a franchise.

Then there's the laziness of Upshaw, which Brad, being quite possibly the best developmental basketball coach in the world, knew would be a very bad influence on young Celtics like James Young and other young guys.

You don't build a winning culture with losers. Sully was under the influence of Rondo and Green, both who had quit on the team long before they were traded. How did those guys rub off on Sully? He gained like 20 lbs, right in the middle of the season.

Also, Danny didn't draft Upshaw, but he drafted literally the next best thing as far as shot blocking, in Jordan Mickey.

You can get rim protection from positions other than center, especially when you're blessed with two talented offensive centers. Getting our rim protection from PF in Mickey and Amir Johnson is going to work out just fine, and as i've said before, our defense wasn't even the problem last year. The team's biggest weakness was the offense of the starting five, and Ainge addressed that in Rozier.

"What if he goes Aaron Hernandez?" Geez. When was the last time an active NBA player killed anyone? To bring that up as a possibility is just absurd. And as far as dropping dead on a basketball court, no team would ever let a player with a significant health risk suit up and play anymore. They will be checked out thoroughly beforehand and teams will go to extreme lengths to make sure everyone they put out there has been medically cleared to play.

"no team would ever let a player with a significant health risk suit up and play anymore."

That's why he didn't get drafted. And now that the Lakers have Hibbert, don't be surprised if Upshaw doesn't get a contract from them.

The guy didn't even swear off drugs. He actually said, "mistakes are going to be made and I told teams that". Something very very similar to those exact words.

"no team would ever let a player with a significant health risk suit up and play anymore."

exactly.

by **rambone** Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:20 pm

Complaining about how the Celtics don't have shot blocking at center, when the team just drafted the NCAA leader in blocks, and signed Amir Johnson in free agency, is like complaining about Dennis Johnson's passing creativity when you have Larry Bird.

You can get NBA skills from different positions, not just one. It's okay if your shooting guard can't shoot threes, just ask Dwyane Wade. It's okay if your point guard turns it over a lot, just ask Steph Curry. And it's okay if your center isn't a dominant defender, just ask Brook Lopez or Jahlil Okafor. It's okay if your power forward doesn't play with power, just ask Dirk. And it's okay if your small forward isn't small, just ask LeBron.

by **rambone** Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:37 pm

UPDATE (4.29.15) Javaris Crittenton has been sentenced to 23 years for murder of a mother of 4
If the name sounds familiar to you then you might know Javaris Crittenton as the other guy involved in the Gilbert Arenas Mexican standoff that took place on Christmas Eve in the Wizard’s locker room. This lead to a rest of the year suspension for him and Agent Zero but unlike Zero, Javaris had next to zero options once the Wizards cut him.

http://ballislife.com/javaris-crittenton-timeline-from-lakers-to-arenas-to-murder-charge-to-the-unthinkable/

by **steve3344** Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:43 pm

rambone wrote:
UPDATE (4.29.15) Javaris Crittenton has been sentenced to 23 years for murder of a mother of 4
If the name sounds familiar to you then you might know Javaris Crittenton as the other guy involved in the Gilbert Arenas Mexican standoff that took place on Christmas Eve in the Wizard’s locker room. This lead to a rest of the year suspension for him and Agent Zero but unlike Zero, Javaris had next to zero options once the Wizards cut him.

http://ballislife.com/javaris-crittenton-timeline-from-lakers-to-arenas-to-murder-charge-to-the-unthinkable/

He hadn't played a minute in the NBA in two and a half years when that happened.

by **Sam** Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:26 pm

BobH,

You're absolutely right on every count.

This is a case of everybody having a right to voice his opinion, even if it's ironically repetitious and premature at the same time, with so little time gone in the offseason and not yet one Summer League game played.

See me in August. See me in October. See me February. See me in April. I'm an animal lover, and the thought of so many dead horses being beaten scores of times saddens me.

Tomorrow offers an opportunity for something actually interesting to discuss. There will be a Game-on Thread for the first Celtics Summer League game at 7:00 pm on NBA-TV. How about focusing on positives for the future instead of the same old same old grousing?

Sam

by **rambone** Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:28 pm

What about when he pulled a gun on a teammate in the locker room?

We also saw the Celtics have bad luck with what's his name, Terrence Williams. We signed him out of China despite a long trail of character concerns, and he ended up pulling a gun on his baby momma or something as soon as the season ended. Just after Danny gave him a multi-year contract:

Boston Celtics guard Terrence Williams was arrested Sunday and accused of brandishing a gun at the mother of his 10-year-old son during a visitation exchange, police in Kent, Wash., said.

A judge has set bail at $25,000 for Williams, who was booked into the King County Jail in Seattle early Monday for investigation of assault. Bail was set during an afternoon court appearance, and the judge scheduled another hearing for Wednesday.

According to a police report, the 25-year-old Williams went to the woman's apartment complex in the suburb of Kent to drop the boy off Sunday afternoon and displayed a gun during an argument. The report says Williams denied pointing the gun at anyone and told police he showed it because he felt threatened by the woman and her boyfriend.

by **112288** Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:37 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:112288 bet you loved the KO pick LOL.

Ya, loved it so much I turned my Christmas lights on in celbration.

112288

by **worcester** Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:42 pm

I'm amazed that so few remember that Danny also acquired Rajon Rondo - who later proved to be an All Star for us for many years. The Brad Stevens pick deserves props too. I know that some really enjoy kvetching and complaining about Danny, and yes, he has whiffed on several centers that every other GM in the league but one missed on too. Still, he has made the Celts champs once with a bright future again. Kvetch all you want. That's your prerogative. I'll enjoy my half full glass of water, trying to stay cool in the Florida heat.

by **112288** Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:47 pm

rambone wrote:Oldschool, if Upshaw dropped dead on the basketball court, the media would crucify Ainge, Brad, and Celtics ownership. They'd say, "this is the third time" a Celtic dropped dead.

They'd say, "there were so many warning signs", etc etc.
Or what if he goes Aaron Hernandez? Think about the damage that case did to the Patriots as a franchise.

Then there's the laziness of Upshaw, which Brad, being quite possibly the best developmental basketball coach in the world, knew would be a very bad influence on young Celtics like James Young and other young guys.

You don't build a winning culture with losers. Sully was under the influence of Rondo and Green, both who had quit on the team long before they were traded. How did those guys rub off on Sully? He gained like 20 lbs, right in the middle of the season.

Also, Danny didn't draft Upshaw, but he drafted literally the next best thing as far as shot blocking, in Jordan Mickey.

You can get rim protection from positions other than center, especially when you're blessed with two talented offensive centers. Getting our rim protection from PF in Mickey and Amir Johnson is going to work out just fine, and as i've said before, our defense wasn't even the problem last year. The team's biggest weakness was the offense of the starting five, and Ainge addressed that in Rozier.

That is pure conjecture on your part as far as what the press would write or say.. I guess LAL felt he was not at risk. Regarding going to kill someone.......come on that is a real stretch!

Jordan Mickey, he is a 6'8" power forward and let me add an undersized power forward, and Johnson is an undersized center!

112288

by **bobheckler** Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:52 pm

112288 wrote:
rambone wrote:Oldschool, if Upshaw dropped dead on the basketball court, the media would crucify Ainge, Brad, and Celtics ownership. They'd say, "this is the third time" a Celtic dropped dead.

They'd say, "there were so many warning signs", etc etc.
Or what if he goes Aaron Hernandez? Think about the damage that case did to the Patriots as a franchise.

Then there's the laziness of Upshaw, which Brad, being quite possibly the best developmental basketball coach in the world, knew would be a very bad influence on young Celtics like James Young and other young guys.

You don't build a winning culture with losers. Sully was under the influence of Rondo and Green, both who had quit on the team long before they were traded. How did those guys rub off on Sully? He gained like 20 lbs, right in the middle of the season.

Also, Danny didn't draft Upshaw, but he drafted literally the next best thing as far as shot blocking, in Jordan Mickey.

You can get rim protection from positions other than center, especially when you're blessed with two talented offensive centers. Getting our rim protection from PF in Mickey and Amir Johnson is going to work out just fine, and as i've said before, our defense wasn't even the problem last year. The team's biggest weakness was the offense of the starting five, and Ainge addressed that in Rozier.

That is pure conjecture on your part as far as what the press would write or say.. I guess LAL felt he was not at risk. Regarding going to kill someone.......come on that is a real stretch!

Jordan Mickey, he is a 6'8" power forward and let me add an undersized power forward, and Johnson is an undersized center!

112288

112288,

1. LAL is desperate and grasping at straws. we're not.

2. Johnson is a PF, not a center.

bob

.

by **112288** Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:53 pm

worcester wrote:I'm amazed that so few remember that Danny also acquired Rajon Rondo - who later proved to be an All Star for us for many years. The Brad Stevens pick deserves props too. I know that some really enjoy kvetching and complaining about Danny, and yes, he has whiffed on several centers that every other GM in the league but one missed on too. Still, he has made the Celts champs once with a bright future again. Kvetch all you want. That's your prerogative. I'll enjoy my half full glass of water, trying to stay cool in the Florida heat.

I ask you, will Rondo be a HOF'er?

We have yet to draft anyone under Danny who will be a HOF candidate.

112288

by **112288** Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:02 pm

bobheckler wrote:
112288 wrote:
rambone wrote:Oldschool, if Upshaw dropped dead on the basketball court, the media would crucify Ainge, Brad, and Celtics ownership. They'd say, "this is the third time" a Celtic dropped dead.

They'd say, "there were so many warning signs", etc etc.
Or what if he goes Aaron Hernandez? Think about the damage that case did to the Patriots as a franchise.

Then there's the laziness of Upshaw, which Brad, being quite possibly the best developmental basketball coach in the world, knew would be a very bad influence on young Celtics like James Young and other young guys.

You don't build a winning culture with losers. Sully was under the influence of Rondo and Green, both who had quit on the team long before they were traded. How did those guys rub off on Sully? He gained like 20 lbs, right in the middle of the season.

Also, Danny didn't draft Upshaw, but he drafted literally the next best thing as far as shot blocking, in Jordan Mickey.

You can get rim protection from positions other than center, especially when you're blessed with two talented offensive centers. Getting our rim protection from PF in Mickey and Amir Johnson is going to work out just fine, and as i've said before, our defense wasn't even the problem last year. The team's biggest weakness was the offense of the starting five, and Ainge addressed that in Rozier.

That is pure conjecture on your part as far as what the press would write or say.. I guess LAL felt he was not at risk. Regarding going to kill someone.......come on that is a real stretch!

Jordan Mickey, he is a 6'8" power forward and let me add an undersized power forward, and Johnson is an undersized center!

112288

112288,

1. LAL is desperate and grasping at straws. we're not.

2. Johnson is a PF, not a center.

bob

.

Johnson has played both positions and it was said that he will be used at the center position as well. He is listed as CF in a number of sites as well.

LAL desperate............for one they are not...............second who cares...........I worry about one team and they have not improved at all, at least at this stage of free agency. Improving through the draft.....jury is out until way into 2016 and I am not holding my breath on them. Talk to me about trades.......that will be the only road to gaining a super star or a highly regarded asset.

112288

by **dboss** Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:22 pm

Biggest issue I have with Danny.

Mis calculations

Nothing he says ever comes .

Let's see what he does with all of the assets he has acquired.

Thus far his moves pretty much suck.

Dboss

by **rambone** Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:24 pm

worcester wrote:I'm amazed that so few remember that Danny also acquired Rajon Rondo - who later proved to be an All Star for us for many years. The Brad Stevens pick deserves props too. I know that some really enjoy kvetching and complaining about Danny, and yes, he has whiffed on several centers that every other GM in the league but one missed on too. Still, he has made the Celts champs once with a bright future again. Kvetch all you want. That's your prerogative. I'll enjoy my half full glass of water, trying to stay cool in the Florida heat.

The only good draft pick is one that becomes a hall of famer, apparently.

by **cowens/oldschool** Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:41 pm

bobheckler wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:History has shown you can win without an offensive dominant big at the 5, however you can't win night in and night out in the NBA without a dominant defensive 5.

Cow,

Golden State, 2015. Bogut sat,
San Antonio Spurs. 2014. Splitter isn't a great individual defender.
Miami Heat, 2013. Bosh, an offensive-oriented toothpick.

There's 3 out of the last 3 champions.

How far back in history do we have to go before we can claim what history proves, and then keep marching backwards from there? This is a different league. Howard and Jordan, with strong teams supporting them, lost.

bob

.

we can go back and fourth on this all day long.

Bogut sat for the last games of the Finals, but they don't get close to that seeding without his services during the nightly day in-day out grind of the regular season and to the Finals as Sam pointed out on another thread. Right now San Antonio just got the most prized free agent and is the favorite to win the title, they got bigger and younger and more skilled. GS didn't just win by small ball, they had a really deep bench and rim protection when needed, depending on the match up.

by **cowens/oldschool** Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:55 pm

dboss wrote:Biggest issue I have with Danny.

Mis calculations

Nothing he says ever comes .

Let's see what he does with all of the assets he has acquired.

Thus far his moves pretty much suck.

Dboss

ditto, how could he trade up for Olynck? how do you break up a championship contending team for a career underachiever, Jeff Green?

by **gyso** Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:06 pm

This is a very funny thread to read. Lots of nonsense being pawned off as facts. Thanks for the good laughs, guys!!

by **rambone** Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:14 pm

How could Danny trade up for Olynyk? The same reason Michael Jordan wouldn't take four first round picks + two second rounders to trade back 7 spots.

There's a reason Olynyk led this team in plus minus all year, and you don't know what it is.

by **Sam** Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:24 pm

Gyso, repeat after me:

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Sam

by **gyso** Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:38 pm

Sam,

Laughter seemed to be the best medicine with this thread!

Thank goodness for the coming distraction - Summer League!!

gyso

by **Sam** Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:57 pm

I'm really looking forward to the Summer League, Steve. I hope the evening hours of games will result in many of our boardmates joining the Game-on Threads.

Are you willing to set up the Game-on Threads, or would you prefer that someone else do it?

Sam

by **gyso** Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:55 pm

sam wrote:I'm really looking forward to the Summer League, Steve. I hope the evening hours of games will result in many of our boardmates joining the Game-on Threads.

Are you willing to set up the Game-on Threads, or would you prefer that someone else do it?

Sam

Sam,

The first one is already set up and waiting. See the new forum for the 2015-2016 season Game On! Threads. I will continue to set them up as before, with a little help (once in a while) from my friends.

gyso

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