Odds and Ends

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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by swish on Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:54 pm

Is Curry becoming another James? Looks like it so far this year. James is averaging 19.4 shots per 36 minutes on a team that averages 83.2 shots per game for 23.3% of his teams shots. For Curry its 21.2 shots per 36 minutes on a team that averages 86.2 shots per game for 24.6 % of his teams shots. In the 4th quarter of his most recent game James was 9 for 16 while taking  16 of his teams 24 shots.( 66.7%). Curry last game saw him taking 11 shots in the 3rd quarter, hitting on 10  with a team total of 17 shots for the quarter (11/17 = 64.7%). That they both have complete games is illustrated by the fact Curry is putting up 5.3 rebounds and 6.3 assist per 36 minutes while James is averaging 7.6 rebounds and 6.4 assist per game.  Ya gotta cannon - Shoot It

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Last edited by swish on Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:35 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : stat correction)

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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:52 pm

Outside

Agree with all your points, what impressed me about the game was the two covering each other in the end and was impressive the way Lebron used his strength to get under Davis like a running back and score right by him at times, reminded me of when McHale used to cover Dr J. Davis's team also didn't give him much help as they were losing the lead, but he, Davis still hit some bigtime clutch shots to get the game to OT and big shots in the OT to win it. Lebron actually had some great passes in the OT, but his teammates couldn't cash them in.

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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:55 pm

Different era, my son just told me Lebron is taking tonites game off to rest, I just told him Jordan and Bird would never do that.
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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by swish on Sat Dec 05, 2015 7:31 pm

But then, Bird at 220 lbs, never had to tote 250 lbs around the court for 38 minutes.

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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by steve3344 on Sat Dec 05, 2015 9:18 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:Different era, my son just told me Lebron is taking tonites game off to rest, I just told him Jordan and Bird would never do that.

Dwight Howard took last night's game off to rest (he's 29) and Houston even beat Dallas (thank you very much Rockets!) in Dallas without him.

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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:10 pm

New era Steve, remember how many teams rested their best player last year during our 2nd half run?
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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:13 pm

swish wrote:But then, Bird at 220 lbs, never had to tote 250 lbs around the court for 38 minutes.

swish

are you saying there is a defender out there now that can hang with/disrupt him?
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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by swish on Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:36 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:
swish wrote:But then, Bird at 220 lbs, never had to tote 250 lbs around the court for 38 minutes.

swish

are you saying there is a defender out there now that can hang with/disrupt him?

Nope. Just responding to your below statement.

"my son just told me Lebron is taking tonites game off to rest, I just told him Jordan and Bird would never do that."

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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by dboss on Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 pm

Last year the Pelicans finished with a very respectable 45-37 records and I was thinking that this is a team on the rise.

Then they fired Monty Williams and hired Alvin Gentry. They probably thought that he would bring some of that Golden State Magic with him. Not happening!!

They should have kept Williams.

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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by Outside on Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:05 pm

dboss wrote:Last year the Pelicans finished with a very respectable 45-37 records and I was thinking that this is a team on the rise.

Then they fired Monty Williams and hired Alvin Gentry.  They probably thought that he would bring some of that Golden State Magic with him.  Not happening!!

They should have kept Williams.
I don't think Williams was that bad, but under him last season, they were 27th in pace and 23rd in three-point attempts. Despite having a premier defensive force in Davis, they were 22nd in defensive efficiency. They made the playoffs because OKC missed them when Durant got hurt.

This is not a short-term fix where Gentry can come in, give them Golden State's playbook, and sit back while the magic happens. The roster needs a lot of work. They have no depth, and they have mismatched parts. Asik and Davis are terrible together. Holiday has been perpetually hurt since he left Philly, as have Evans and Gordon, and while they show flashes, their best days are in the rear view mirror, and they're not a very good group of perimeter defenders. Ryan Anderson can shoot, but what he gives the Pelicans on the offensive end, he gives away on the defensive end. They made no significant upgrades in the offseason.

Their 45-37 record last season was a huge jump from the previous seasons (34-48, 27-55) and something of a mirage rather than a stepping stone to a 50-win season. Monty Williams did a very good job last year getting them to that record, but seeing the trend toward pace-and-space, they knew Williams wasn't the guy to take them there. Gentry is, but it will take time, as in several years and multiple new pieces.
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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by dboss on Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:47 pm

Outside

I really do not see where something needed to be fixed. It was heading in the right direction. I do not think that last year was a fluke. Williams had been coaching them for a few years and they were improving under him.

When Williams was fired it did not sit well with their top player Anthony Davis.

Pace and Space can be a good system if you have enough players that can play fast and shoot long.. The pelicans are up a few more FGA per game but the real problem is that they have turned into the worst defensive team in the NBA. They are giving up around 109 points per game but last year they only gave up 98 PPG.

They were playing better defense under Williams.

I think the move to let Williams go was a front office decision based on personality and had little if anything to do with his coaching ability or his relationships with the players.

I do not know what makes you think that Gentry is the guy to get them there wherever there is.

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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by Outside on Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:56 pm

I think Williams did a good job last year getting the most out of a limited roster. As far as I know, he's a well-liked guy. His firing may not have sat well with Davis, but management can't let that stop the move if they think it's the right one to make. Steph Curry didn't want Mark Jackson fired, but that was definitely the right move, for multiple reasons, one of which was to dump Jackson's traditional offense for a pace-and-space system, similar to the Pelicans' situation.

However, there aren't too many other parallels that you can draw with the Golden State coaching change. While the Warriors roster was already built for pace-and-space and ready to make the big leap they made last year, New Orleans' roster is not.

Their pace is up significantly this season -- 97.7 possessions per 48 minutes (6th in the league), compared to 91.4 last season (27th), so they are definitely pushing the ball more.

You are right about the defense -- while they were a poor 21st in defensive rating last season, they are dead last this season. However, I don't think that's on Gentry, at least from a coaching standpoint. Gentry is an offensive guy, and he hired defensive guru Darren Erman to take the lead on that side of the ball (Erman was with the Celtics last season). I'm not sure what's going on there, but my guess is that it's more about injuries and roster limitations than coaching, unless Erman's reputation was a mirage.

Gentry has been well-regarded as a coach wherever he's been, both as a head coach and an assistant. He was on D'Antoni's staff during the "eight seconds or less" heyday in Phoenix, and he's been all about pace-and-space for years. You may not think that's the right direction to go for the Pelicans, but management apparently does, and Gentry is as good as anyone to take them in that direction.

The bottom line is whether to use a system that's best for the players you have, or implement the system you want and remake the roster to fit the system. The second option is what they chose, and that's the same option Boston management chose when they got Brad Stevens. As with Stevens in Boston, it's going to take time in New Orleans. At least they already have the elite player that they can build around.
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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by dboss on Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:21 pm

Outside

The key to the pace and space game requires that you can play defense.

The Celts are a perfect example of a team that is not very good shooting the ball but they play defense at a very high level and that helps them force the pace.

So many teams are trying to reinvent themselves by playing faster and shooting more 3 pointers but there is really only one team in the NBA that has perfected that style of play. Of course I'm talking about GS

Their 44% shooting on 31 attempts is unreal and they play a little defense as well. I watched them last night against the 2nd best 3 point shooting team, Indiana and it was no contest.

Boston will need to realize some improvement in this area and perhaps specifically target through trades, free agency and the draft, players that are better 3 point shooters.

The game has definitely changed. The Celts transition into that style of play is already well under way.

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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by dboss on Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:36 am

At 13-9 the Celts are now 4 games over .500

I cannot recall when positions 1-8 were only separated by 2 games top to bottom,

The East is up for grabs as no team has managed to break out from the pack.

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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by dboss on Sun Dec 13, 2015 1:55 pm

The Celtics won their 14th game of the 14-15 season on January 22, 2015.

Both the Hawks and the Magic are over .500 but are currently in 9th and 10th place. Top to bottom with the exception of the 26ers, the East does look stronger than the West.

The Celtics are tied in 22nd place in 3 point field goal percentage at .332 We need better outside shooters.

The Celts are creating 17.6 turnovers per game...Best in the league

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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by Outside on Sun Dec 13, 2015 2:41 pm

dboss wrote:Top to bottom with the exception of the 26ers, the East does look stronger than the West.

You can make a "top to bottom" argument based on the the number of teams above .500, but having the Warriors and Spurs, the two teams with far and away the best records, skews things for the West.

All eight teams currently in playoff position in the East are above .500 compared to only six in the West, but prior to today's games, the combined records of the teams in playoff position is 110-72 (.604) for the East, compared to 121-69 (.637) for the West. After getting out to a fast start against the West, the East's record against the West is now only 71-70, and that's with the West being on the road for nine more of those games.

The East is better than it's been recently, and the West is down with several teams disappointing so far, but I think as the season moves along, the "East is stronger than the West" argument won't hold. It's already beginning to turn.
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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by bobheckler on Sun Dec 13, 2015 2:48 pm

Outside wrote:
dboss wrote:Top to bottom with the exception of the 26ers, the East does look stronger than the West.

You can make a "top to bottom" argument based on the the number of teams above .500, but having the Warriors and Spurs, the two teams with far and away the best records, skews things for the West.

All eight teams currently in playoff position in the East are above .500 compared to only six in the West, but prior to today's games, the combined records of the teams in playoff position is 110-72 (.604) for the East, compared to 121-69 (.637) for the West. After getting out to a fast start against the West, the East's record against the West is now only 71-70, and that's with the West being on the road for nine more of those games.

The East is better than it's been recently, and the West is down with several teams disappointing so far, but I think as the season moves along, the "East is stronger than the West" argument won't hold. It's already beginning to turn.


I think the 'top to bottom' argument is flawed. In 2007-2008 the west was the better, stronger conference 'top to bottom'. There were only 2, maybe 3 good teams in the entire east but the best team in the league that year was Boston. It might make it harder to determine who the best team in the league is if most of your competition is weak but the best team in the league, wherever they are, are the ones that are going to make it to the Finals from their conference barring a big upset.


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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by dboss on Sun Dec 13, 2015 3:00 pm

Outside

"the East does look stronger than the West" is what I said so you really should not use quotation marks around a statement unless you use the exact words.

You said that I said "East is stronger than the West"   That is clearly not what I said.

The season is 25% completed.  Last year teams like Boston made it into the playoffs with a below .500 record.  This year there appears to be more parity in the east than the west.  Obviously GS and the Spurs are top teams but that does not change how the West is playing overall.  Top to bottom the east looks to be more competitive.  Of course things could change but I get a sense that all of the playoff teams in the east will be well over .500 by the end of the year.  I think that would prove that the east has gotten stronger relative to the West.  We can revisit this in April.

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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by Outside on Sun Dec 13, 2015 3:10 pm

dboss,

When I referred to the "'East is stronger than the West' argument," I was referring to it in a general sense, as made by the media and various followers of the NBA. I could have put it this way: East-is-stronger-than-the-West argument. I didn't mean to imply that I was quoting you directly, as I did with the first item in quotes ("top to bottom").

Sorry for the confusion.
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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by dboss on Sun Dec 13, 2015 3:14 pm

Bob

There is nothing flawed about this argument if that is what you choose to call it.  It is more of an observation.

There are more teams in the east with winning records than there are in the west. That is a noticeable change from last year.  

The West is top heavy.  The east is more competitive top to bottom (with the exception of the 26ers as previously recognized)  Teams 1-10 in the east are separated by 3.5 games and in the west the separation is 13.5 games,  

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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by dboss on Sun Dec 13, 2015 3:19 pm

Outside wrote:dboss,

When I referred to the "'East is stronger than the West' argument," I was referring to it in a general sense, as made by the media and various followers of the NBA. I could have put it this way: East-is-stronger-than-the-West argument. I didn't mean to imply that I was quoting you directly, as I did with the first item in quotes ("top to bottom").

Sorry for the confusion.

Outside not a problem.

Still a lot of games to be played and the trends could swing back and forth.

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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by dboss on Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:34 am

Heard a key stat yesterday.

The Celts are 6 and 9 against teams that are .500 or better.  I thought the Celtics should have won games against Indiana and Toronto.  Those are games that must be won if you also want to win the East.

I do think the Celtics are contenders in the East and I expect them to finish in the top half of the conference.

The Celts have identical home and away records at 7-5.
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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by beat on Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:39 am

dboss

6-9 vs them at the time we played, them or now?

Make a bit of a difference.

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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by dboss on Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:21 pm

Beat

Our record is 6 and 9.  Not actually sure if they are or were .500 teams then or now.  Good question though

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Re: Odds and Ends

Post by beat on Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:45 pm

dboss wrote:Best

Our record is 6 and 9. Not actually sure if they are or were .500 teams then or now. Good question though

Dboss


Playing the Lakers or the 76'ers the first game of the season should not count either.

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