LA Times calls Artest a "difficult fit"

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-plaschke-lakers-20100324,0,1475112.column

he may have struggled at times,I think he does a better defensive job on Pierce than Ariza,hes a royal pain defensively

cowens/oldschool wrote:he may have struggled at times,I think he does a better defensive job on Pierce than Ariza,hes a royal pain defensively

cow,

I'm not convinced of that. You can rub Artest off with a solid pick, you couldn't with Ariza. He was too quick and recovered too quickly.

I think the problem is that they don't play smart against Artest. They give the ball to Pierce high, like he likes it, and he tries to "work" Artest. Doesn't work. Artest is quick enough, a little taller and much stronger. The refs let him bump and grind and bang and won't call the foul for Pierce. The thing to do (and I saw the C's run this play and it worked) is to set Pierce up low in the blocks and have a big (Perk, KG, Sheed) start up high and downpick on Artest and have Pierce bust out to the top of the key and hit him with the pass then. If Artest is late off the pick, Pierce has an open shot. If Artest is quick off the pick then the big is downlow for the pass instead. If Artest switches and stays with the big while their big goes out to contest Pierce, then our big has a mismatch with Artest down low.

Too much one-on-one in Pierce's game. Works a lot of the time with a lot of different teams, but Artest isn't Radmanovic (much less Ariza).

bob

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steve3344 wrote:http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-plaschke-lakers-20100324,0,1475112.column

steve,

Thanks. I'm make sure my Laker friends read it. :-)

bob


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As the Lakers 4th option offensively, Artest needs to do a better job of hitting open shots from the outside.
He has lost 15 lbs since the season started which has made him a little quicker.
Defensively he has done a very good job this year, but I would probably grade his overall play as a C.
By the way, Ariza is having a terrible year for Houston.
For qualifying players he has the following stats:
FT%: 66% which is 126th out of 137 players.
FG%: 38% which is 120th out of 121 players.
3 PT FG%: 32% which is 113th out of 125 players.
Ariza is only averaging 5.6 rebs while playing 37 minutes per game.
It is quite different being the 4th guy with LA compared to being the 2nd guy for Houston...

tj

Trevor was a better fit. You guys were brutal with him. Artest is a good on the ball defender but thats about it. Will never understand why you guys let a glue guy like Ariza float away to sign a known headcase like Artest. I have spent enough time in LA to know that some people can handle it and it will devour some people. Artest it will devour.

Cheers

Jeb

It sounds as though everything is less than copacetic in Lakerland. Their fans are saying the same things about their team that our miserable fellows are saying about the Cs. How can this happen when LA has the greatest coach in the history of sports? Next thing you know, they'll be saying, 'Fire Phil'. In reality there were two reasons they won last year: KG got hurt and Odom was in a contract year.

Do these bozos really expect their team to win every time they take the floor? Or do they complain because they enjoy it? Sad to say, but it seems that some people are only happy when they're miserable.

Artest is a good player and a good teammate. Ariza may be better but that isn't Artest's fault. If you had to go into the stands to beat up some fans, who would you want on your side, Artest or Ariza?

I thought they won last year because Kobe finally grew up enough to do what was best for his team. Pass quick out of every double to an able scorer. The Lakers dominated last year and won most every big game they played in.
From game 4 or so of the Denver series on they played unselfish, sweet basketball.

This year Kobe is back to jackin up shots and his team is suffering for it. Gasol has said in public kobe's shot selection is hurting the team. But when it's time for a bailout Gasol is nowhere to be found and it's all mamba.

I dont get it. If Kobe becomes a facilitator and passes quick out of doubles the Lakers are very very tough.

It does not seem like they are happy in their work this year. Look at Denver and you see a team having fun.

jeb and tyrone,

I think you two are way off base on this one:
1) Ariza's agent tried to get Ariza paid like a superstar. He was not happy with the MLE (5 years, $35m) that LA offered so LA called his bluff and they let him walk away.
2) I am a huge LA fan and follow them everyday. Not one time have I heard LA fans say fire Phil.
3) Saying LA won because of Garnett being out is your opinion but saying LA won because Odom was in a contract year is plain false. Look at Odom's stats last year. Last year was his lowest scoring average and assist per game over his entire career.
4) Kobe is not jacking up shots compared to last year. He is averaging 1 more shot attempt per game but is playing 3 more minutes per game.
5) I am not sure what your definition of team basketball is with Denver but LA is averaging more assists per game and only 1 player (Kobe at 5 per game) is averaging more than 3 1/2 assists per game, so that means many people are involved with the offense.

TJ

jeb65 wrote:I thought they won last year because Kobe finally grew up enough to do what was best for his team. Pass quick out of every double to an able scorer. The Lakers dominated last year and won most every big game they played in.
From game 4 or so of the Denver series on they played unselfish, sweet basketball.

This year Kobe is back to jackin up shots and his team is suffering for it. Gasol has said in public kobe's shot selection is hurting the team. But when it's time for a bailout Gasol is nowhere to be found and it's all mamba.

I dont get it. If Kobe becomes a facilitator and passes quick out of doubles the Lakers are very very tough.

It does not seem like they are happy in their work this year. Look at Denver and you see a team having fun.

Denver didn't have too much fun in N.Y. last night.

tj


Good points all. I think stats can tell a part of a story but not the whole story.

I can only judge the lakers by the games that I have seen and in those games Kobe has been reverting back to his old ways. I think this is reflected in the results.

We can disagree on this one and I put more weight in your opinion on this than mine because the Lakers sre your prime focus they are a team I watch close but nowhere near as close as you.

Best

jeb

steve33

No they did not but every time I watch them they seem to be in the flow enjoying the process. I think they are a real threat to win it this year.

jeb65 wrote:steve33

No they did not but every time I watch them they seem to be in the flow enjoying the process. I think they are a real threat to win it this year.

If LA plays against Denver, they will win if they can keep it to a half court offense.
In last years playoffs Denver averaged 108 points against New Orleans, 115 against Dallas and just 102 against LA and just 1 time in 6 games did they score over 106 points.
LA is built for the playoffs, not to run for 82 games.
Kobe can't press hard every regular season game like LeBron can.

I can't remember who the NBA announcer was who recently said that he would take LeBron for the regular season but Kobe for the playoffs.

tj

I am prone to agree with you but they will have to play right or they are in trouble. A lot of it depends on Martin and Lawson and Smith. Lawson is so fast and Smith might score 35 or poo his pants. Martin gives the Lakes something they dont see very much which is a big, tough athletic front line they cant shoot over. The Lakers are when their lights are shining a smarter team but the Nuggs are way more explosive.

That bit about Bron and Kobe rings true to me. It's interesting Tj because yall are in some degree in the same situation we are over here. Will the Lakers turn it on for the playoffs? Probably. Will it be enough this year? I am not so sure. Should be fun to watch.

i like having laker guys here. Keeps the conversation lively. In the meantime tj we both have our hands pretty full tonight eh?

Jeb

to qualify this last bit I was talking @ Kenyon's health...they need him.

I would say Artest is the kind of guy that will show to be of more value in the playoffs.

Jeb,

I don't like talking to fans of a team that aren't realistic about their team.
I like to have conversations as long as we both understand each others points and as long as thoughts are reasonable. Some want to give their team the trophy mid way through the year.
One more thing about me that I probably shouldn't admit to is that I am a huge Yankees fan too.
It was fun living in New England and working with all Celtics/Bruins/Red Sox/Pats fans...
My two teams are the teams Boston fans hate the most...oh well....

Yes, Bos and LA will have to earn the wins tonight!

tj

Yeah this has been an education in patience for me this year. I remain hopeful. I still think the Celts are in the hunt. A favorite? Nope. But to write them off is equally foolish. Must have been some interesting conversations living in New England as a Lakes/ Yankees man.

The Spurs are playing a lot better and Denver is a scary foe...should be a great night of hoop.

Jeb,

The biggest concern for Denver is being able to win on the road this year. They are under .500 on the road. Will that change in the playoffs? Only time will tell. Denver is a completely different team at home than on the road. They will have to steel one in LA to advance past them. Also injuries could decide the playoffs for both teams. Kmart and Bynum for example.

mg

It seems to me that Denver is doing really well in big games. Last year the Lakes won all the big ones. This year to be honest as much as I hate it it's the cavs.

I think the Lakes will likely beat Denver but they will have to play team ball to do it.

Great wins by Boston and LA tonight.
I am starting to believe that Boston could be a contender again after playing .500 ball for 1/2 the season.
Artest was awesome defensively and Kobe was very efficient.
Artest clearly looks thinner then he did earlier in the year.

Artest played really stingy d tj hell the whole team did.

That writer that wrote the story just has own vision,doesn't mean hes right,Artest enables Lakers to win ugly,he had a few 1-9 games so what?Artest can handle all the top wings,letting Kobe stay more energized and his defense better by going at the weaker wing.Ariza was better at certain things,but I'll take Artest if I'm a Lakers fan.

bobheckler wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:he may have struggled at times,I think he does a better defensive job on Pierce than Ariza,hes a royal pain defensively

cow,

I'm not convinced of that. You can rub Artest off with a solid pick, you couldn't with Ariza. He was too quick and recovered too quickly.

I think the problem is that they don't play smart against Artest. They give the ball to Pierce high, like he likes it, and he tries to "work" Artest. Doesn't work. Artest is quick enough, a little taller and much stronger. The refs let him bump and grind and bang and won't call the foul for Pierce. The thing to do (and I saw the C's run this play and it worked) is to set Pierce up low in the blocks and have a big (Perk, KG, Sheed) start up high and downpick on Artest and have Pierce bust out to the top of the key and hit him with the pass then. If Artest is late off the pick, Pierce has an open shot. If Artest is quick off the pick then the big is downlow for the pass instead. If Artest switches and stays with the big while their big goes out to contest Pierce, then our big has a mismatch with Artest down low.

Too much one-on-one in Pierce's game. Works a lot of the time with a lot of different teams, but Artest isn't Radmanovic (much less Ariza).

bob

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bob agree with your post,there are some things Ariza does better,but post defense and one on one defense,Artest with his quick hands and ability to body up can give anybody problems,alot of problems.Hopefully Pierce is back to his old robust self as last few games have shown,hes getting it back,hopefully he could figure out how to draw fouls on Artest.With Pierce on his A game he could score on anybody,but in 7 game series nobody maintains that level for every game.Our key match up with Lakers would have to be Rondo and the bench,Pierce could still have his moments,but the easy days of Radmonovic sure are over.

tjmakz wrote:Great wins by Boston and LA tonight.
I am starting to believe that Boston could be a contender again after playing .500 ball for 1/2 the season.
Artest was awesome defensively and Kobe was very efficient.
Artest clearly looks thinner then he did earlier in the year.

tj/mustangator/babyskyhook,

I have a question to ask you (or anybody else who can answer it, I'm just thinking as a Laker fans that you might have turned this on and watched it).

Last night somebody (NOT a Celtic fan, I live in NorCal, so there's mostly GSW fans here) said that Kobe had an interview aired on Sunday on network TV and said that his teammates were being selfish.

Let me be clear:
1. I did not see this interview and am not claiming I did.
2. I am not saying Kobe said that.
3. I am looking for confirmation or refutation of this rumor. If you didn't see the interview, or haven't heard about it until now, just say so.

thanks for not snapping my head off,
bob


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