The Celtics are getting a max free agent this summer...maybe

Ibaka is not on Ainge's to do list.  I remember that Danny did not try to beat the Raptor's trade package for Ibaka (which would have been easy) because he had no intention of signing him during the off season.

gyso wrote:Ibaka is not on Ainge's to do list.  I remember that Danny did not try to beat the Raptor's trade package for Ibaka (which would have been easy) because he had no intention of signing him during the off season.

perhaps...or perhaps Danny preferred to not give up a young guard and a first round pick ( which is what Toronto gave up) , when he can sign him for nothing next year (if the price is right).

here is a list of the top FA's for next year....

http://hoopshype.com/2017/01/25/nba-free-agency-2017-the-top-players/


find another player that fits the skillset that many here feel this team needs, that might come at a price tag less than $20M per year?

big men on that list:

3. B. Griffin- he'll get a max deal
7. P. Millsap- might get a max deal and is undersized anyway
10. Ibaka
15. P. Gasol- I doubt he'll leave SA
16. G. Monroe- no defense
19. Mason Plumlee- another option if Danny only wants an active defender and rebounder with no outside shooting.
20. N. Noel- see above


that's the only big men in their top 20 and only Ibaka provides the outside shooting to go along with the active defense and rebounding.

Noel and Plumlee could fit if an outside shot is not a requirement and both are a bit younger than Ibaka as well.

I think that Danny's goal is to ADD an elite player to the roster - if not this year then next year for sure. I'll be surprised if he uses any of his valuable cap space or trading chips for any thing less.
He went for it all in 2007-08 - its in his blood to shoot for the moon.

swish

I still don't see how a max level player will be available to the Cs this summer either by free agency or by trade.

First, I would not expect any of the big name, young stars who will be free agents to leave behind tons of money to leave their current team.  The new CBA will keep many players with their current teams just as this portion of the CBA was designed to do.  There are very few guys in the NBA who do not place their rankings in the league by the size of their contracts.  Professional sports egos are very real.  

IT is an example when he mentioned "backing up the Brinks truck" months ago.  This guy could easily live off another four year $32 M contract and feed his family, his family's family and then possibly still another generation on such a contract, but he will demand more money to solidify his ranking with the better players in the league.

This is not to mean that any (and all) professional athlete should not get as much money as some team will pay him, however.  Of course, every NBA player is over paid compared the rest of us normal people, but so be it.

Second, to trade for a max level guy who is a 'star', the Cs will have to gut their core of young, solid and improving players who have all  been parts of developing the "culture" that Stevens preaches, and has led to such dramatic improvements in the last few years.  The Pacers are not going to accept a couple of low second round picks and Green plus Zeller for George.  Think more like a Nets pick, another first round pick somewhere, Bradley, Crowder and Rozier.  Hey, those are just the reasons that this trade was not made at the deadline.

To get a guy making $24M, the Cs have to part with not only top draft picks but also likely guys like Bradley, Crowder, Rozier and Smart to make the salaries match. No teams really want Johnson, Zeller, Young, Mickey and three second round picks for a young star player.  Extra players are extra players in everyone's eyes and teams don't trade stars for only extra players.   Is one such guy worth doing that?  I don't think so, and am really glad that we did not have to make such a trade to get our first max level guy (Horford).

Now that the trade deadline has gone by, I much prefer to get a couple of young guys via trade or free agency who have some NBA experience and fill the most glaring needs that the team has and let Stevens build these guys like he has done with Smart, Bradley, Rozier, Crowder, Bradley, Thomas, etc.  Add the many first round picks in the future and let Stevens build them as well.  I may be foolish but along this line of thinking, I would not trade Jae Crowder even up for Butler even though Butler may score a few more points per game at this time in their careers.  How a player "fits" on his team is sometimes very much more important that a couple of points per game.

I will have to say that I was disappointed in not seeing the Cs do something at the trade deadline to help our rebounding, but I can live without a max player for next season such as Butler or George.

Swish,

I believe that the only 'player' that Ainge ended up giving up to allow him to add Allen and Garnett that summer was Al Jefferson.  Even the number 5 pick turned out to be Green who has now found a way to become a journeyman role player. All of those other guys were only "extra guys".

More of heist looking back at those two combined trades now than they seemed even after the 08 championship.

dboss wrote:It is easy to forget what was given up

http://www.espn.com/nba/team/transactions/_/name/bos/year/2007

Jefferson, Gerald Green, Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair and (2) first round picks.

dboss

At the time I was not too thrilled to see Jefferson and Green leaving - but Danny knew best. He got the ELITE player he wanted.

swish

swish wrote:

dboss wrote:It is easy to forget what was given up

http://www.espn.com/nba/team/transactions/_/name/bos/year/2007

Jefferson, Gerald Green, Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair and (2) first round picks.

dboss

 At the time I was not too thrilled to see Jefferson and Green leaving - but Danny knew best. He got the ELITE player he wanted.

 swish

I wasn`t thrilled about Allen , but in hindsight, none of those guys played a lick of defense . Guys like Bradley, Crowder and Smart are a different matter

I had mixed feeling of the trade myself, really liked Big Al, had no idea KG was so great and team would jell so fast, shame he got hurt in 09 and then Perk in 10 Finals, that team was great enough to be a multi championship team, we made Lebron go to South Beach, he knew he couldn't get past us.

wideclyde wrote:I still don't see how a max level player will be available to the Cs this summer either by free agency or by trade.

First, I would not expect any of the big name, young stars who will be free agents to leave behind tons of money to leave their current team.  The new CBA will keep many players with their current teams just as this portion of the CBA was designed to do.  There are very few guys in the NBA who do not place their rankings in the league by the size of their contracts.  Professional sports egos are very real.  

IT is an example when he mentioned "backing up the Brinks truck" months ago.  This guy could easily live off another four year $32 M contract and feed his family, his family's family and then possibly still another generation on such a contract, but he will demand more money to solidify his ranking with the better players in the league.

This is not to mean that any (and all) professional athlete should not get as much money as some team will pay him, however.  Of course, every NBA player is over paid compared the rest of us normal people, but so be it.

Second, to trade for a max level guy who is a 'star', the Cs will have to gut their core of young, solid and improving players who have all  been parts of developing the "culture" that Stevens preaches, and has led to such dramatic improvements in the last few years.  The Pacers are not going to accept a couple of low second round picks and Green plus Zeller for George.  Think more like a Nets pick, another first round pick somewhere, Bradley, Crowder and Rozier.  Hey, those are just the reasons that this trade was not made at the deadline.

To get a guy making $24M, the Cs have to part with not only top draft picks but also likely guys like Bradley, Crowder, Rozier and Smart to make the salaries match. No teams really want Johnson, Zeller, Young, Mickey and three second round picks for a young star player.  Extra players are extra players in everyone's eyes and teams don't trade stars for only extra players.   Is one such guy worth doing that?  I don't think so, and am really glad that we did not have to make such a trade to get our first max level guy (Horford).

Now that the trade deadline has gone by, I much prefer to get a couple of young guys via trade or free agency who have some NBA experience and fill the most glaring needs that the team has and let Stevens build these guys like he has done with Smart, Bradley, Rozier, Crowder, Bradley, Thomas, etc.  Add the many first round picks in the future and let Stevens build them as well.  I may be foolish but along this line of thinking, I would not trade Jae Crowder even up for Butler even though Butler may score a few more points per game at this time in their careers.  How a player "fits" on his team is sometimes very much more important that a couple of points per game.

I will have to say that I was disappointed in not seeing the Cs do something at the trade deadline to help our rebounding, but I can live without a max player for next season such as Butler or George.

wideclyde

Below is my take, made a few post back, on this issue.

"The best chance to make a trade for an elite player with a huge salary would be when that teams management might be interested in downsizing because of high payroll commitments along with a fear that the team is past its peak or failing to play up to their potential.
Case in point could be the Clippers who have a very high payroll - who have both Paul and Griffin up for unconditional free agency this year and Jordan in 2018. A breakup could be on the horizon in L A. - With Jordan as the prize trade bait for future draft choices. And Ditto for Detroit who is also operating with a huge salary commitment and is bogged down in the middle of the pack. Another mediocre season next year and perhaps they too will be looking to do a rebuild - with Drummond as the trade bait. Of course this is all pure fantasy world stuff on my part but its the fantasy world stuff that I witnessed in 2007-08 when Danny got both Allen and Garnett. And of course any deal that had the Celtics sending out sizable expiring contracts would also enable the Celts to remain below the salary cap - with cap space to bring in additional free agent help. Now back to the real world."
If you want further clarification on the above, let me know.

By the way the Celtics took advantage of this rebuild type of trade when they were the SELLER - remember the Garnett and Pierce trade to the Nets for a trio of number 1 picks. While its not likely that this type of trade opportunity is available every year they can present both teams with the chance to accomplish their goals.

swish

Cow, Yes, I am giving up on Kelly O if he wants more than $7M. He has improved, but no way should we overpay for him. We'll see what the market offers him. No Brinks truck heading up to British Columbia, please!

worcester wrote:Cow, Yes, I am giving up on Kelly O if he wants more than $7M. He has improved, but no way should we overpay for him. We'll see what the market offers him. No Brinks truck heading up to British Columbia, please!

I think many people will be surprised at to what salary the league and/or the Celtics will offer for a player like KO. $7M is MLE money (or close to) and as such, is peanuts. KO probably will make more than that.

Stretch 4/5 that can shoot all the way out to the 3 point line, definitely a rotation player, 1st big off the bench, spot starter, good character (don't discount that!). The money that KO will make will cause many fans to pull out their hair and rend their clothes. (LOL)

gyso

gyso wrote:

worcester wrote:Cow, Yes, I am giving up on Kelly O if he wants more than $7M. He has improved, but no way should we overpay for him. We'll see what the market offers him. No Brinks truck heading up to British Columbia, please!

I think many people will be surprised at to what salary the league and/or the Celtics will offer for a player like KO.  $7M is MLE money (or close to) and as such, is peanuts.  KO probably will make more than that.

Stretch 4/5 that can shoot all the way out to the 3 point line, definitely a rotation player, 1st big off the bench, spot starter, good character (don't discount that!).  The money that KO will make will cause many fans to pull out their hair and rend their clothes.  (LOL)

gyso

 "Stretch 4/5 that can shoot all the way out to the 3 point line, definitely a rotation player, 1st big off the bench, spot starter, good character"

 Great summation gyso.  Very handy guy to have coming off the bench - especially because of his very efficient shooting skills.   Five straight years of being  a 20 minute per game player would seem to indicate that management sees flaws in his game that prevent him from being a 30 plus minute per game starter. Accept him for what he is - a very valuable off the bench role player.  The market place will determine his salary value.

 swish

$10-12 M range if we are lucky will be Kelly's market, IMO.

I mean we're paying Zeller $8M for one year to sit on the bench and cheer after all.


but look at it like this, what if we add Noel at $15M and Kelly back at $12M

Yabusele, Zizic and that first rounder this year on the roster.

we'd sacrifice Amir and Zeller and probably Jerebko (though we can go over the cap to re-sign him, if desired).

how's a roster of:

Horford
Zizic
Noel or Mason Plumlee
Kelly O.
Jerebko ?
Yabusele
Crowder
Brown
Maybe Green back at Vet minimum??
Bradley
IT
Smart
Fultz or J.Jackson
Rozier
Jackson

Did anyone notice that Noel got 17 rebounds in his first start for Dallas?

worcester wrote:Cow, Yes, I am giving up on Kelly O if he wants more than $7M. He has improved, but no way should we overpay for him. We'll see what the market offers him. No Brinks truck heading up to British Columbia, please!

KO should give his entire game check back after today's horrid performance against the Suns.  0 for 5, 0 points, three turnovers and was useless in 22 minutes.  Can't remember the last time I was so angry about a game.  And 11 missed free throws, FIVE by Jaylen Brown who, along with IT missed huge ones in the final seconds that would've iced the game.  This one hurts big time if we have any hopes of finishing ahead of Cleveland.  And Washington is breathing down our neck although we have a far easier remaining schedule than the Wiz.  Felt like smashing the TV after this one.  KO you suck.

Sometimes unfulfilled expectations can be quite unforgiving - and I suspect that it is the reason why KO takes the heat from many while Jerebko seems to get a free pass, while compiling stats very similar to KO's..

Check out the below link for a comparison of the stats for the 2 players for this year. Use the chart based on a 36 minute comparison.

http://bkref.com/tiny/VbnsZ

Also compare their stats for todays Phoenix game.

swish

They have different roles and Jerebko can defend, if KO isn't hitting shots or 3's, his primary job, hes useless. Lately hes been pretty useless, he looks really awkward and his balance is so terrible. Jerebko's primary role is defense, hes more a 4, KO has more size, is a limited 4-5.

Olynyk has again gone south on the Cs. He just cannot seem to stay in the positive groove for some reason(s). He goes on runs of games where he scores in the mid teens and then slumps off to not scoring even 5 points for stretches of times.

Obviously, his ZERO point performance (with no other positives either) may have been his worst of the season last night against the Suns.

These consistent ups and downs will likely cost him lots of money this summer in free agency, and may also be why the Cs let him walk away.

wideclyde wrote:Olynyk has again gone south on the Cs. He just cannot seem to stay in the positive groove for some reason(s).  He goes on runs of games where he scores in the mid teens and then slumps off to not scoring even 5 points for stretches of times.

Obviously, his ZERO point performance (with no other positives either) may have been his worst of the season last night against the Suns.

These consistent ups and downs will likely cost him lots of money this summer in free agency, and may also be why the Cs let him walk away.

KO brought back memories of the equally frustrating Jeff Green last night.

I say let him walk, too bad, I like his hair.

cowens/oldschool wrote:They have different roles and Jerebko can defend, if KO isn't hitting shots or 3's, his primary job, hes useless. Lately hes been pretty useless, he looks really awkward and his balance is so terrible. Jerebko's primary role is defense, hes more a 4, KO has more size, is a limited 4-5.

Can you offer any facts that suggest that Jerebko plays a better defense than KO?

swish

swish wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:They have different roles and Jerebko can defend, if KO isn't hitting shots or 3's, his primary job, hes useless. Lately hes been pretty useless, he looks really awkward and his balance is so terrible. Jerebko's primary role is defense, hes more a 4, KO has more size, is a limited 4-5.

Can you offer any facts that suggest that Jerebko plays a better defense than KO?

  swish

my eye test, if you can't see that.....