WHY DANNY DID IT

Cow - a franchise cornerstone?  You mean like a 25 year old, 4 time all star who has shined on the biggest stage 3 years in a row?

I will never understand the fascination with draft picks vs proven stars.  There are very few players in the NBA who are 25 and have more upside than Kyrie.  The chances of any player in next year's draft having even close to the impact that Kyrie Irving already has on the game, is slim.  And even so, they would not be ready for 2-3 years.  

On this day in August 2017 - Danny Ainge made the best deal available.  Thats all we can expect from him in my opinion.

Also, what are the chances of the Celts getting the #1 pick in 2 successive drafts?

I mean it's really very unlikely that the 2018 Nets pick will also end up #1 after the Celts got the #1 pick from the 2017 Nets pick.

Maybe the 2018 Nets pick will end up in the top 5 or top 10.
That's only fair considering the Celts got Kyrie Irving.

I often wonder what percentage of an opinion can be attributed to wishful thinking..

swish

Exactly.

They have another high pick next year as well that DA just stole from the Sixers. At some point, you have to take that stack of chips you have been stockpiling and start cashing them in.

Bringing a top 3 pick two years in a row and Horford, Hayward and Irving in consecutive years to a city that no one wants to play in - Danny Ainge is playing chess while the rest of the league plays checkers.

There is only one defining element associated with the trade.

Will Boston add more banners.  That is it plain and simple.

It should however be crystal clear that Boston gave up a lot to get Kyrie.  The Nets pick may define this trade for years to come.  

However trades do not have to be even steven.  

Boston has reconfigured their team over the summer in a manner that is unimaginable. They can and will survive the splurge because they have assets to burn.

This was without a doubt a gutsy move by Danny that I think surpasses the 07 campaign.

We added KG and Allen and parted with young assets and picks to make it happen however the current excursion is much different.  In fact it may be even better because we did not acquire two allstars that were on the downward slope of their prime.  To the contrary we got two players that are just hitting their prime which provides the "Time Line" to compete well into the future.

And to go along with that we have added 2 high end draft picks in Brown and Tatum that appear to have tremendous upside.  And to top that off we still have plenty of first round draft picks to use to make this team even better.

We can argue all day long about who won or who lost in this deal but the bottom line is that Danny was willing to take the risk to make this team even better.  Isn't that what we expected?  Isn't that what we wanted?  This deal is more about Boston and much less about Cleveland.  Cleveland has ONE banner.  That is it.  The Celtics are looking to add #18.

I will miss IT and Crowder and the prospective Nets pick but I am completely okay with this deal.  As many of my esteemed board members know I saw the trade of PP and KG as a once in a lifetime opportunity to rebuild this team with high end young talent.  Guess what?  That is exactly what Danny has done and he still has money in the bank.

So I will not lament about this trade because we still have enough young talent and assets to reach the ultimate goal.  

While concerns will persist about team chemistry, I have a feeling that Brad Stevens will create an outstanding team this year.  

The bottom line is that Danny Ainge has added that much sort after superstar that has a long shelf life.  Danny has signed and drafted so many small forwards that we will forget about Crowder real quick and Danny was smart enough to leave the poker table and the unknown 2018 pick because his pockets are still filled with chips yet to be played.

This has been an amazing summer for Celtics fans and it is time to cut the emotional attachment for players gone past.

dboss

Well Said D.

The answer to the question of will the Celtics add more banners is a definite "yes!"

Maybe in 2020?

I think the Celtics can make the Finals in 2018 and 2019, but I don't think they can beat the Warriors.

But in 2020, I think the Celts will be ready.

If Hayward is an upgrade over Crowder, I like this trade on a few levels. I remember Irving burning Rondo and hastening his defensive decline. Irving's only gotten better since then. We lost IT, who IMO just had a career year. We lost Crowder, who was not going to like playing behind Hayward nor sharing time with Tatum. We lost Zizik whom I never saw, but read how he was underwhelming. We lost a draft pick, but I think the Nets have had it with being doormats so that pick may not be great. Before that, we lost Bradley, so now Brown and Smart will play more. We still have Brad and I think Irving will buy into the defense; he does like to win and may have something to prove. Boston-Cleveland games are going to fun and tell us plenty. Hawk

Good points dboss, this move guarantees more playing time for Tatum, something we all want. We still need a rugged type to not get killed on the glass, maybe Yabu? Or maybe this era rebounding bigs don't matter? No question Kyrie is a unique offensive talent that can do it all, his offense easily is as good or better than Curry's.

cowens/oldschool wrote:Good points dboss, this move guarantees more playing time for Tatum, something we all want. We still need a rugged type to not get killed on the glass, maybe Yabu? Or maybe this era rebounding bigs don't matter? No question Kyrie is a unique offensive talent that can do it all, his offense easily is as good or better than Curry's.

Baynes is as rugged as you can get.

Hey Dboss, you came back off the ledge? I am still hanging!! But I am slow to accept change. I was awful during the KG trade, it was Ray Allen that helped me accept that team. I was a huge fan of his.
With Irving I just am not sure. But my other issue is that management today expects nothing but the best from their players, devotion, whatever. Well they had that in IT and there he went right out the door.

I guess the acceptance will come when they start to gel and playing good basketball. My son reminded me that Kyrie tried to woo Hayward to Cleveland before LB returned. I guess they are friends, that could work to our advantage. Actually, the rookie, Tatum, is good friends with him also. Duke players..

I always felt, once they got Hayward that crowder would be gone by February.

Well, time will tell. And we have a lot of that!

Rosalie

mrkleen09 wrote:

bobheckler wrote:
MY NOTE:  Reading the tea leaves here I'm thinking that Danny is basically throwing in the towel on competing for a championship for 3-4 years.  That's how long it will take to develop Tatum and Brown, who is only one year ahead of him, and Yabby/Nader/Semi/etal to where they are either ready to blossom or of value in a trade.


.

Sorry Bob - but that is silly.  Danny keeps mentioning Kyrie's age in saying the Celtics will be competitive LONGER with a 25 year old star vs a 29 year old one, not that they have no chance at competing with Golden State.

The Celtics may take a temporary step back while they establish chemistry and find their new identity, but 3 to 4 years?  No way.  They are one or two players away from being able to hang with anyone.  And maybe the path to getting there is developing Tatum or Brown until they are trade ready - who knows.  You get a big rebounder at the trade deadline and sign a few veterans who can score off the bench and they are in it this year.

Mrkleen,

How many years do you think it will take before Tatum is teady to play at an NBA championship level?  Where is our veteran front court?  If Danny doesn't have at least one more on the roster by late-October then how much longer will it take to get him and integrate him?  You cannot compete for a championship without being 10 deep, minimum, and those 10 have to be really good and playing together as a team..

Sure we could trade for a big.  Who do you think we would have to give up to get one that can/will carry his weight in the championship round?  Spare parts?


bob

.

dboss wrote:This trade is a classic Belichick like move.

dboss

Yup

BleedGreen wrote:

dboss wrote:This trade is a classic Belichick like move.

dboss

Yup

Another poster here already said comparing Ainge to Belichick is ridiculous.

fierce wrote:

BleedGreen wrote:

dboss wrote:This trade is a classic Belichick like move.

dboss

Yup

Another poster here already said comparing Ainge to Belichick is ridiculous.

Cool

On the one hand you demand posters not state things as facts, only opinions

Then when they give an opinion you say they are wrong or ridiculous

Several posters here and in social media said Danny was very Bill Belichick in this move, yet your opinion is that we cannot say this?

I even said I was having fun tongue in cheek b/c Bill coldly sent a star to Cleveland for a lame pick and was celebrated and Danny emotionally sent a star + some to Cleveland for the best player in the deal and was being bashed by half the fans... I found that ironic and amusing and said it is what 5 titles v. 1 gets you. But you were the fun police and decided I was not allowed to 'compare' the two. I was 'not being fair to Danny'. Because I was just having some tongue in cheek fun over irony?

Learn what convivial means fierce your behavior is childish and bizarre

BleedGreen wrote:

fierce wrote:

BleedGreen wrote:

dboss wrote:This trade is a classic Belichick like move.

dboss

Yup

Another poster here already said comparing Ainge to Belichick is ridiculous.

Cool

On the one hand you demand posters not state things as facts, only opinions

Then when they give an opinion you say they are wrong or ridiculous

Several posters here and in social media said Danny was very Bill Belichick in this move, yet your opinion is that we cannot say this?

I even said I was having fun tongue in cheek b/c Bill coldly sent a star to Cleveland for a lame pick and was celebrated and Danny emotionally sent a star + some to Cleveland for the best player in the deal and was being bashed by half the fans... I found that ironic and amusing and said it is what 5 titles v. 1 gets you. But you were the fun police and decided I was not allowed to 'compare' the two. I was 'not being fair to Danny'. Because I was just having some tongue in cheek fun over irony?

Learn what convivial means fierce your behavior is childish and bizarre

It's strange because you said your comparison of Belichick and Ainge was just tongue and cheek.
But when another poster here said it was like a Belichick move, you support the statement.

You're not consistent.

That's weird in my opinion.

fierce wrote:

BleedGreen wrote:

fierce wrote:

BleedGreen wrote:

dboss wrote:This trade is a classic Belichick like move.

dboss

Yup

Another poster here already said comparing Ainge to Belichick is ridiculous.

Cool

On the one hand you demand posters not state things as facts, only opinions

Then when they give an opinion you say they are wrong or ridiculous

Several posters here and in social media said Danny was very Bill Belichick in this move, yet your opinion is that we cannot say this?

I even said I was having fun tongue in cheek b/c Bill coldly sent a star to Cleveland for a lame pick and was celebrated and Danny emotionally sent a star + some to Cleveland for the best player in the deal and was being bashed by half the fans... I found that ironic and amusing and said it is what 5 titles v. 1 gets you. But you were the fun police and decided I was not allowed to 'compare' the two. I was 'not being fair to Danny'. Because I was just having some tongue in cheek fun over irony?

Learn what convivial means fierce your behavior is childish and bizarre

It's strange because you said your comparison of Belichick and Ainge was just tongue and cheek.
But when another poster here said it was like a Belichick move, you support the statement.

You're not consistent.

That's weird in my opinion.

Wow

The summer is not over and Danny still must add one more player to the roster. I trust that will be a big

I understand and agree with Ainge's reasons for the trade.

There is one thing not mentioned in this thread that bothers me. I've been reading Cleveland blogs and they consider Kyrie to be a head-case. Rumor has it that he refused to talk to his teammates during the playoffs. Also wanting to be "the man" and no longer having to play second fiddle to LBJ smacks of a "me first" rather than a "team first" player. Perhaps this is only sour grapes and false scuttlebutt, but it does make me uneasy. These traits are not exactly those of Celtics basketball. I hope Ainge and Stevens know what they are getting into.

Berlin-T

Berlin-T wrote:I understand and agree with Ainge's reasons for the trade.

There is one thing not mentioned in this thread that bothers me. I've been reading Cleveland blogs and they consider Kyrie to be a head-case. Rumor has it that he refused to talk to his teammates during the playoffs. Also wanting to be "the man" and no longer having to play second fiddle to LBJ smacks of a "me first" rather than a "team first" player. Perhaps this is only sour grapes and false scuttlebutt, but it does make me uneasy. These traits are not exactly those of Celtics basketball. I hope Ainge and Stevens know what they are getting into.

Berlin-T

that certainly could be an issue, if true, we will have to see. Perhaps learning from and being in the shadow of the King for a few years he knows what it takes to win also.

one key thing those who dislike this trade need to consider a bit more ,IMO. Kyrie is only 25YO and is already an all-NBA performer. that is BIG. Skip Bayless ( like him or hate him) said yesterday that this trade is on par with the Melo and the Abdul-Jabbar trade. Being that the Celtics are getting an elite NBA player in his early prime.

Now in today's NBA Kyrie could end up being a only a two year rental for us, he could also get injured and never play for us . Lots of things can happen in life, but Brad has a new big three to mold now and obviously Danny and He felt that last years team had peaked.

Hoping for the allure of high draft picks is fun, I do it every year. But you can end up with Morrison, Bias,Milicic, Bennett...the list is long of high draft who never do much in the NBA and yes even in the modern NBA drafts.

I for one will take an NBA all-pro player , in his prime ( or younger) with no injury concerns over the hope of a future draft pick every time.

kdp59 wrote:

Berlin-T wrote:I understand and agree with Ainge's reasons for the trade.

There is one thing not mentioned in this thread that bothers me. I've been reading Cleveland blogs and they consider Kyrie to be a head-case. Rumor has it that he refused to talk to his teammates during the playoffs. Also wanting to be "the man" and no longer having to play second fiddle to LBJ smacks of a "me first" rather than a "team first" player. Perhaps this is only sour grapes and false scuttlebutt, but it does make me uneasy. These traits are not exactly those of Celtics basketball. I hope Ainge and Stevens know what they are getting into.

Berlin-T

that certainly could be an issue, if true, we will have to see. Perhaps learning from and being in the shadow of the King for a few years he knows what it takes to win also.

one key thing those who dislike this trade need to consider a bit more ,IMO. Kyrie is only 25YO and is already an all-NBA performer. that is BIG. Skip Bayless ( like him or hate him) said yesterday that this trade is on par with the Melo and the Abdul-Jabbar trade. Being that the Celtics are getting an elite NBA player in his early prime.

Now in today's NBA Kyrie could end up being a only a two year rental for us, he could also get injured and never play for us . Lots of things can happen in life, but Brad has a new big three to mold now and obviously Danny and He felt that last years team had peaked.

Hoping for the allure of high draft picks is fun, I do it every year. But  you can end up with Morrison, Bias,Milicic, Bennett...the list is long of high draft  who never do much in the NBA and yes even in the modern NBA drafts.

I for one will take an NBA all-pro player , in his prime ( or younger) with no injury concerns over the hope of a future draft pick every time.

Bingo!

IT and Bradley at the guard positions and Jae Crowder as the glue guy will not be enough to beat the Warriors.

Kyrie and Hayward are a HUGE upgrade.

The only question now is will Tatum become Paul Pierce 2.0?

Berlin-T wrote:I understand and agree with Ainge's reasons for the trade.

There is one thing not mentioned in this thread that bothers me. I've been reading Cleveland blogs and they consider Kyrie to be a head-case. Rumor has it that he refused to talk to his teammates during the playoffs. Also wanting to be "the man" and no longer having to play second fiddle to LBJ smacks of a "me first" rather than a "team first" player. Perhaps this is only sour grapes and false scuttlebutt, but it does make me uneasy. These traits are not exactly those of Celtics basketball. I hope Ainge and Stevens know what they are getting into.

Berlin-T

Playing alongside Bron might make a head case for anyone. After a great game by KI reporters flock to Bron. After a poor game by Bron reporters flock to Bron. After Bron sneezes reports ask why.

KI was an after thought by many in Cleveland and maybe just maybe he was getting a bit tired of it.  

You know damn well if he plays well here he will be cheered and that might make him play harder and even better !!.

All speculation of course.  

Cleveland fans have about as much class as a rotting turnip and the press there are Bron ass kissers.  I take little heed from anything coming out of that place.

As much as I'll miss IT we had hit our ceiling with him (and Crowder).  Now we go up to another floor..............I hope !!

beat

Don't get me wrong. I love Isaiah, but his game is not optimum for playoff time. During the regular season he drives to the hoop a lot, gets calls, and makes fritos. During the playoffs refs don't make those calls so often. The difference with Kyrie is that when he drives for a layup playoffs or not, he is not looking to draw a foul but instead to make the basket, which he usually does. He does not depend on getting foul calls whereas Isaiah does. That makes Kyrie a money player in the playoffs and Isaiah less so.

Also, I do believe IT's torn labrum will not get fully better without surgery. I do expect him to falter this year when his hip gets inflamed and further torn. He will be 95% ok after surgery, but he will need 6-9 months to recover whenever that is. My 2 cents.

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Hey Dboss, you came back off the ledge?  I am still hanging!! But I am slow to accept change. I was awful during the KG trade, it was Ray Allen that helped me accept that team. I was a huge fan of his.
With Irving I just am not sure.  But my other issue is that management today expects nothing but the best from their players, devotion, whatever. Well they had that in IT and there he went right out the door.  

I guess the acceptance will come when they start to gel and playing good basketball. My son reminded me that Kyrie tried to woo Hayward to Cleveland before LB returned. I guess they are friends, that could work to our advantage. Actually, the rookie, Tatum, is good friends with him also.  Duke players..

I always felt, once they got Hayward that crowder would be gone by February.

Well, time will tell. And we have a lot of that!

Rosalie

Thanks Rosalie

Yes I had to walk myself back from the ledge.

I have been sitting on the Golden Eggs like the goose that laid them. lol!

The Celtics have turned the page on a team that provided us fans with so many memorable moments.   That will be a tough act to follow.

I believe that Kyrie will fit right in because he wants to be here.  I read where he waived his trade kicker to make this deal happen.  He wanted to come to Boston.  A superstar on the team finally.  I find it very interesting that the narrative often equates his production with being able to play with Lebron.  Let us not overlook the fact that he averaged 18.5 PPG as a rookie and followed that up with 22.5 PPG his second year.  All this before Lebron went back to Cleveland and sucked all of the air out of the room.

Hayward will be even better because he is really a #2 scoring option.  And he has what i would call a complete game.  He does everything really well including distributing the ball.  He is the perfect fit for Brad's offense.  And like Irving he has an extended shelf life.

The Tatum drafting was a surprise but if Danny did not make the move to trade down we would not have the Lakers/Philly/Sacramento pick 2018-2019.  I watched him in summer league and all I could do was shake my head.  Yep he got game.  And the extra pick certainly made it reasonable to trade the last Golden Egg.

A significant key to making this reconfiguration work is our 2nd year stud Jaylen Brown.  On any other team he would have played big minutes even as a rookie but during the stretch of games when Bradley was out he proved that he could also play the 2.  I love AB and it hurt to see him go but that trade does not happen without the promise that a 19-20 year old kid displayed.  He can legitimately play 3 positions on defense and that give the Celtics a lot of matchup flexibility.  His ability to get to the rim and his improved outside shooting were all factored into the equation.

27 year old Marcus Morris also has a complete game.  His defense at the 4 and his ability to stretch on offense is another round peg in a round hole fit.  He handles the ball really well and has a physical presence not to be trifled with.  He is the most talented power Forward that Brad has had.

Danny made a big investment in Al Horford but truth be told, the Celtics do not have the time to screw around adding complimentary pieces.  Danny went full blow this summer in an effort to surround Al with enough talent to make a run this year.

We needed some beef so Danny goes shopping and brings home a huge slab of Angus beef in Baynes.  Guys like Zeller and KO and Amir could not provide the sheer strength and power of the 260 pound behemoth.  Baynes will knock folks on their ass if they try to attack the rim.  We did not have that type of element before.

Danny still has his Swiss Army Knife in Marcus Smart and Terry Rozier is on the cusp of having a breakout campaign.

Our other prospects like Semi and Yabu will have a chance to develop and the grown man from Germany, Theis will also play.

The Celtics can still add one more piece and with that they will be ready to play with any team.

What is not to like about all these moves?

dboss

Swish, you are correct in pointing out the wishful thinking of posters like me. There is definitely a bias some of us display that any Celtic is a potential star and that just isn't always the case as you are so good at pointing out. But the members of this forum are too knowledgeable to make that the end all be all of our opinion. Some point out the good and others the bad. It all balances out in the end because it is all just opinion.

MrKleen: Great analogy of chess to checkers. When Danny graduates to playing Go, we hang #18. It could be this year. The minor goal is Finals or bust but in truth as Dboss sez, its all about hanging the next one, and the next...

BobH: Tatum doesn't have to play at an NBA championship level for the Celtics to win a championship. Despite what you or I may think, Danny is creating a positionless team for the future. For me, Danny is going all in on the concept and is all in on going for the ring this season.

Assets vs Legit contender: For years now many have been waiting for those long promised fireworks. They are here and now. Danny is going for it. We all have ideas on what may or may not work. But the only one with an opinion that matters is Danny. For all the love IT gets here, his Brinks statement is about as unCeltic as you can get. I've no doubt Coach B would have sent him packing faster than Danny did. If Kyrie has a me first attitude then so did IT. What is really the difference other than what color jersey they wore? Anyone who supports that King in the 4th clap trap is totally out of touch with Boston's history and legacy, IMO. It is so difficult to let go of those you love. But attachment is what causes our suffering in this situation. AB, Jae, and IT truly enjoyed almost unanimous support. Kelly not so much. For me the bottom line is that we have a more skilled team then last year and that will be proven in April when we post our 54th win and in June when we go to the Finals.

Coach Brad: His teams seem to start slow and then powers its way into the postseason. I have very little doubt that this team will gel and be ready for the second season.

Ante Zizic: I will miss seeing what he would bring to the table in Boston. I was definitely practicing wishful thinking in his case. Given the way Danny is building this seasons legit contender, it really makes a lot of sense that he is the one out. He is an old school big but was on a pace and space team. We all wondered how that fit would work out. It didn't.

Dboss: Glad you are back from the edge. You shared your emotions and then walked it back to reality. Danny can find a 15th body if he is so inclined but I wouldn't be surprised if he waits to fill that spot until someone who is equal to the quality of the team is found.

Fierce and Bleed Green: Please continue to write all those nasty snipes at each other. Just don't hit the send button. Might I suggest that you refrain from commenting on each other's posts for a week or ten? Differences of opinion are fine but constant sniping doesn't meet even the remotest threshold of conviviality Take it from one who has not followed that ideal and has come to regret it.