Celtics Star Jayson Tatum Doesn’t Mind Coming Off Bench, Just Wants To Win

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Re: Celtics Star Jayson Tatum Doesn’t Mind Coming Off Bench, Just Wants To Win

Post by Ktronic1 on Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:51 am

dboss wrote:Forget the sarcasm comment I made.  You were not being sarcastic.

I also posted a link that suggest that the starters will be the two we agree on plus Brown Tattum and Hayward.  So there is a source other than what you have read on the board.  I did not see the link before I had Brown in there as the 3rd definite starter.

As I stated, I would be interested in who you think would be the started at SG.  If not Brown who?

I do believe that we wiil see 2 to 3 different lineups.  I think the players that may be in that mix includes Tatum, Hayward, Baynes, Morris and maybe even Williams, Theis and of course Smart who has started for the team.

Great depth certainly provides a lot of options.
I think we have the best lineup that you pointed out. Horford, Kyrie, Tatum, Brown and Hayward. However, I can see where we may start Smart with Brown or Hayward the first off the bench. This of course is predicated on matchups. I also can see where Hayward would play some at guard and Brown switching to the 3. Again, matchups is the key here. We have so many options and are so deep that I strongly believe that this team can give GS a serious run and possibly beat them. THIS year! Gotta be one of the most intriguing since before the big 3.
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Re: Celtics Star Jayson Tatum Doesn’t Mind Coming Off Bench, Just Wants To Win

Post by dboss on Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:56 pm

Ktronic1 wrote:
dboss wrote:Forget the sarcasm comment I made.  You were not being sarcastic.

I also posted a link that suggest that the starters will be the two we agree on plus Brown Tattum and Hayward.  So there is a source other than what you have read on the board.  I did not see the link before I had Brown in there as the 3rd definite starter.

As I stated, I would be interested in who you think would be the started at SG.  If not Brown who?

I do believe that we wiil see 2 to 3 different lineups.  I think the players that may be in that mix includes Tatum, Hayward, Baynes, Morris and maybe even Williams, Theis and of course Smart who has started for the team.

Great depth certainly provides a lot of options.
I think we have the best lineup that you pointed out.  Horford, Kyrie, Tatum, Brown and Hayward. However, I can see where we may start Smart with Brown or Hayward the first off the bench. This of course is predicated on matchups. I also can see where Hayward would play some at guard and Brown switching to the 3. Again, matchups is the key here. We have so many options and are so deep that I strongly believe that this team can give GS a serious run and possibly beat them. THIS year! Gotta be one of the most intriguing since before the big 3.

+1
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Re: Celtics Star Jayson Tatum Doesn’t Mind Coming Off Bench, Just Wants To Win

Post by cowens/oldschool on Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:30 pm

bobheckler wrote:I don't want to mention any names (Cowens, ahem) but some people on this board didn't want us to make the playoffs in Brad's 2nd year because they wanted a lottery pick with an almost infinitesimal shot at KAT.  I argued that year that, not only should you always play to win, playoff experience is something you have to go through in order to advance to the Championship round.  So we got swept that year but the experience, and the bad taste we had in our mouths from it, made us better the next year, and that made us even better for the year after that.  It is a progression of increasingly competitive milestones that have to be earned.  EVEN IF LeBron stayed in Cleveland and EVEN IF Kyrie and Hayward are out this coming playoffs too we would still be more formidable just because we are more playoff seasoned and battle hardened.

The most important muscle in a pro athlete's body is the 4" one between their ears.  GSW still has that over us.  EVEN IF we do match up well with them physically we will have to execute exceptionally well to negate their championship experience.  In my opinion, that experience is more impactful than how many All-Leaguers are on a team.  The 2003 Lakers were a super team too, remember?






bob


.


Are you serious? Was that the team that IT came off the bench and gave us a spark? This team is completely masterfully rebuilt, that team had Sully, I think it had KO. That team had no Jaylen or Tatum or GH or Kyrie or Horford, but guess it was essential to win so that this core could get together years later....which player got valuable experience that year bob that is making him better NOW....???
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Re: Celtics Star Jayson Tatum Doesn’t Mind Coming Off Bench, Just Wants To Win

Post by bobheckler on Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:32 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:
bobheckler wrote:I don't want to mention any names (Cowens, ahem) but some people on this board didn't want us to make the playoffs in Brad's 2nd year because they wanted a lottery pick with an almost infinitesimal shot at KAT.  I argued that year that, not only should you always play to win, playoff experience is something you have to go through in order to advance to the Championship round.  So we got swept that year but the experience, and the bad taste we had in our mouths from it, made us better the next year, and that made us even better for the year after that.  It is a progression of increasingly competitive milestones that have to be earned.  EVEN IF LeBron stayed in Cleveland and EVEN IF Kyrie and Hayward are out this coming playoffs too we would still be more formidable just because we are more playoff seasoned and battle hardened.

The most important muscle in a pro athlete's body is the 4" one between their ears.  GSW still has that over us.  EVEN IF we do match up well with them physically we will have to execute exceptionally well to negate their championship experience.  In my opinion, that experience is more impactful than how many All-Leaguers are on a team.  The 2003 Lakers were a super team too, remember?






bob


.


Are you serious? Was that the team that IT came off the bench and gave us a spark? This team is completely masterfully rebuilt, that team had Sully, I think it had KO. That team had no Jaylen or Tatum or GH or Kyrie or Horford, but guess it was essential to win so that this core could get together years later....which player got valuable experience that year bob that is making him better NOW....???


Cow,

Players aren't the only ones that gain from playoff experience, coaches do too.  That year was Brad's first NBA playoff experience and, understandably, he made a lot of mistakes that he didn't make the next year.  While they fly under the radar a lot I'm sure Jay Larranagga and the assistant coaches improved as well.

IT and Jae Crowder were with us for that year and for two more years after that.  That playoff experience, ALL THREE YEARS of it, made them valuable trade chips in the Kyrie deal.  The new GM in Cleveland wanted proven playoff players, plus picks, for  Kyrie.  We got away with only giving up one pick because the value of the veterans included in the deal was proven over three playoff seasons, not just two.  IT blossomed into an MVP candidate from this experience, his playoffs in his last year was remarkable.  Would it have impressed Cleveland as much if we exited sooner because we were still lean on playoff experience?  The playoffs are a completely different beast from The regular season, and everybody knows it.

The odds are we wouldn't have gotten anywhere near KAT, which means our likely pick would only be a marginal improvement.  Our playoff performance in year 3 (year 1 we missed the playoffs completely) assuming we missed the playoffs in Year 2 also would be weak.  ZERO playoff experience for IT and only 81 playoff minutes for Crowder when he was with Dallas.  That's 2 of our starters with only 81 total playoff experience going into year 3 playoffs.  How do you think that would have gone?

And if our Year 3 playoff experience was weak because we missed the playoffs in years 1 AND 2, what happens to our odds of landing Al Horford?  His team eliminated us in Year 3, but we impressed him.  Suppose we didn't impress because we, including Brad, were playoff rookies?

We went into Year 3 playoffs with higher expectations precisely because we expected to do better than a first round exit like in year 2.  What would our expectations have been if that was our first playoffs?  Lower.

Besides, Minny has had KAT for years now, and Wiggins.  How far has that gotten them?


bob


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Re: Celtics Star Jayson Tatum Doesn’t Mind Coming Off Bench, Just Wants To Win

Post by cowens/oldschool on Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:05 am

I couldn’t give 2 shits about KAT or Wiggins, so if we didn’t get in playoffs that year, we wouldn’t have signed Horford, maybe he was kicking Sully’s ass that one year cause he wanted Sully’s job...??? That last comment was not serious, Al is not KG, not Cowens, not Parrish or McHale, he’s a nice glue guy that defends really well and is still in great shape, but I don’t know if he’s worth that contract. Anyone who is into analytics would probably agree with me.

We suckered Cavs in that deal, Jae Crowder and IT did nothing for them and sadly both former C’s have regressed since that trade. Maybe their your pg they just drafted can help them....it took Rozier a few years, but glad he’s stepped up.
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Re: Celtics Star Jayson Tatum Doesn’t Mind Coming Off Bench, Just Wants To Win

Post by dboss on Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:12 am

I mentioned the rebuild inside of the rebuild. The current team is light years better but the collective experience derived from playing together is still in the early stages of development.

Ainge has completed the task of assembling a team that can win right now and well into the future. Coach Stevens has gained valuable coaching experience along the way.

This team has little if any resemblance to the team 2 years ago. The constant is Brad Stevens. Marcus Smart is the longest tenured player on this team. Imagine that!
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Re: Celtics Star Jayson Tatum Doesn’t Mind Coming Off Bench, Just Wants To Win

Post by bobheckler on Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:37 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:I couldn’t give 2 shits about KAT or Wiggins, so if we didn’t get in playoffs that year, we wouldn’t have signed Horford, maybe he was kicking Sully’s ass that one year cause he wanted Sully’s job...??? That last comment was not serious, Al is not KG, not Cowens, not Parrish or McHale, he’s a nice glue guy that defends really well and is still in great shape, but I don’t know if he’s worth that contract. Anyone who is into analytics would probably agree with me.

We suckered Cavs in that deal, Jae Crowder and IT did nothing for them and sadly both former C’s have regressed since that trade. Maybe their your pg they just drafted can help them....it took Rozier a few years, but glad he’s stepped up.

Cow,

"I couldn’t give 2 shits about KAT or Wiggins"?  That is revisionist history.  You went on and on about how a 1.6% chance of moving up to #1 and drafting KAT was better than getting obliterated in the first round.  

Your comment about Horford makes me wonder what you're recreating with.  Who ever said he was any of those players?  Other than Anthony Davis, who in today's NBA is like them?  But as far as just being a glue guy and that metrics will bear you out, I disagree.  He is a 5X All-Star.  He wasn't voted in by a bunch of ballot-stuffing yahoo fans, like the ones who voted Kobe to start even though he tore his Achilles, he was added by 5 different All-Star coaching staffs who looked past his box scores and saw an elite game-changing player.  Hockey assists, the pass before the pass that creates the shot, is a metric coaches pay close attention to.  So is a big who is able to go to the perimeter on offense and defense.  Watch the next time we play Miami.  Horford will be outside and Whiteside will NOT want to leave the paint and, if he does, Horford will swing the ball around and then a pass will hit a cutter and Whiteside will be too far away to recover and protect the rim and that is the non - boxscore impact of All Horford.

IT and Jae have not done as well but the point is that Cleveland thought they would be good because they played well here, including getting to the playoffs consistently for three straight years.


bob


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Re: Celtics Star Jayson Tatum Doesn’t Mind Coming Off Bench, Just Wants To Win

Post by Ktronic1 on Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:37 am

bobheckler wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:
bobheckler wrote:I don't want to mention any names (Cowens, ahem) but some people on this board didn't want us to make the playoffs in Brad's 2nd year because they wanted a lottery pick with an almost infinitesimal shot at KAT.  I argued that year that, not only should you always play to win, playoff experience is something you have to go through in order to advance to the Championship round.  So we got swept that year but the experience, and the bad taste we had in our mouths from it, made us better the next year, and that made us even better for the year after that.  It is a progression of increasingly competitive milestones that have to be earned.  EVEN IF LeBron stayed in Cleveland and EVEN IF Kyrie and Hayward are out this coming playoffs too we would still be more formidable just because we are more playoff seasoned and battle hardened.

The most important muscle in a pro athlete's body is the 4" one between their ears.  GSW still has that over us.  EVEN IF we do match up well with them physically we will have to execute exceptionally well to negate their championship experience.  In my opinion, that experience is more impactful than how many All-Leaguers are on a team.  The 2003 Lakers were a super team too, remember?






bob


.


Are you serious? Was that the team that IT came off the bench and gave us a spark? This team is completely masterfully rebuilt, that team had Sully, I think it had KO. That team had no Jaylen or Tatum or GH or Kyrie or Horford, but guess it was essential to win so that this core could get together years later....which player got valuable experience that year bob that is making him better NOW....???


Cow,

Players aren't the only ones that gain from playoff experience, coaches do too.  That year was Brad's first NBA playoff experience and, understandably, he made a lot of mistakes that he didn't make the next year.  While they fly under the radar a lot I'm sure Jay Larranagga and the assistant coaches improved as well.

IT and Jae Crowder were with us for that year and for two more years after that.  That playoff experience, ALL THREE YEARS of it, made them valuable trade chips in the Kyrie deal.  The new GM in Cleveland wanted proven playoff players, plus picks, for  Kyrie.  We got away with only giving up one pick because the value of the veterans included in the deal was proven over three playoff seasons, not just two.  IT blossomed into an MVP candidate from this experience, his playoffs in his last year was remarkable.  Would it have impressed Cleveland as much if we exited sooner because we were still lean on playoff experience?  The playoffs are a completely different beast from The regular season, and everybody knows it.

The odds are we wouldn't have gotten anywhere near KAT, which means our likely pick would only be a marginal improvement.  Our playoff performance in year 3 (year 1 we missed the playoffs completely) assuming we missed the playoffs in Year 2 also would be weak.  ZERO playoff experience for IT and only 81 playoff minutes for Crowder when he was with Dallas.  That's 2 of our starters with only 81 total playoff experience going into year 3 playoffs.  How do you think that would have gone?

And if our Year 3 playoff experience was weak because we missed the playoffs in years 1 AND 2, what happens to our odds of landing Al Horford?  His team eliminated us in Year 3, but we impressed him.  Suppose we didn't impress because we, including Brad, were playoff rookies?

We went into Year 3 playoffs with higher expectations precisely because we expected to do better than a first round exit like in year 2.  What would our expectations have been if that was our first playoffs?  Lower.

Besides, Minny has had KAT for years now, and Wiggins.  How far has that gotten them?


bob


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+1!
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Re: Celtics Star Jayson Tatum Doesn’t Mind Coming Off Bench, Just Wants To Win

Post by Ktronic1 on Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:44 am

bobheckler wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:I couldn’t give 2 shits about KAT or Wiggins, so if we didn’t get in playoffs that year, we wouldn’t have signed Horford, maybe he was kicking Sully’s ass that one year cause he wanted Sully’s job...??? That last comment was not serious, Al is not KG, not Cowens, not Parrish or McHale, he’s a nice glue guy that defends really well and is still in great shape, but I don’t know if he’s worth that contract. Anyone who is into analytics would probably agree with me.

We suckered Cavs in that deal, Jae Crowder and IT did nothing for them and sadly both former C’s have regressed since that trade. Maybe their your pg they just drafted can help them....it took Rozier a few years, but glad he’s stepped up.

Cow,

"I couldn’t give 2 shits about KAT or Wiggins"?  That is revisionist history.  You went on and on about how a 1.6% chance of moving up to #1 and drafting KAT was better than getting obliterated in the first round.  

Your comment about Horford makes me wonder what you're recreating with.  Who ever said he was any of those players?  Other than Anthony Davis, who in today's NBA is like them?  But as far as just being a glue guy and that metrics will bear you out, I disagree.  He is a 5X All-Star.  He wasn't voted in by a bunch of ballot-stuffing yahoo fans, like the ones who voted Kobe to start even though he tore his Achilles, he was added by 5 different All-Star coaching staffs who looked past his box scores and saw an elite game-changing player.  Hockey assists, the pass before the pass that creates the shot, is a metric coaches pay close attention to.  So is a big who is able to go to the perimeter on offense and defense.  Watch the next time we play Miami.  Horford will be outside and Whiteside will NOT want to leave the paint and, if he does, Horford will swing the ball around and then a pass will hit a cutter and Whiteside will be too far away to recover and protect the rim and that is the non - boxscore impact of All Horford.

IT and Jae have not done as well but the point is that Cleveland thought they would be good because they played well here, including getting to the playoffs consistently for three straight years.


bob


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+1+1 on your assessment of Horford.
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Re: Celtics Star Jayson Tatum Doesn’t Mind Coming Off Bench, Just Wants To Win

Post by cowens/oldschool on Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:33 pm

Bob you can remember more basketball that I forgot, since some political pundits say facts can change over course of time as they are developed or something like that....what I mean now is we have so much talent, backcourt, wing and even bigs that right now the way we are built for long term success, I don’t give 2 shits about KAT. Do I make myself clear....??? At the time seeing Sully, Zeller and KO play every night probably made me puke and wish we could get a high pick to get a real big that can play, not players you have to watch play meekly and know it’s obvious to get where we want to go....they would have to be replaced and talent upgraded. I still don’t see that playoff beating we took did anything positive realistically, no coach could win with that roster, which is why eventually Danny knew that 16-17 lineup had to be changed drastically, it went as far as it could go and amazingly he upgraded it, repeat he didn’t stick with it, he’s amazingly smart, as dross said a rebuild within a rebuild, dramatic thanks to all those great moves acquiring pick after pick.

And I like Al very much, with all the talent all over, he’s the perfect versatile big for this team, can play either 4 or 5.
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Re: Celtics Star Jayson Tatum Doesn’t Mind Coming Off Bench, Just Wants To Win

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:26 pm

dboss wrote:I mentioned the rebuild inside of the rebuild.  The current team is light years better but the collective experience derived from playing together is still in the early stages of development.

Ainge has completed the task of assembling a team that can win right now and well into the future.  Coach Stevens has gained valuable coaching experience along the way.

This team has little if any resemblance to the team 2 years ago.  The constant is Brad Stevens.  Marcus Smart is the longest tenured player on this team.  Imagine that!

The rebuild wiithin the rebuild that Danny has pulled off has been nothing short of amazing incredible unbelievable to have such a deep young stacked athletic skilled roster like this!!!
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