Celts Should Explore A Jimmy Butler Trade

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Re: Celts Should Explore A Jimmy Butler Trade

Post by Phil Pressey on Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:19 pm

Jaylen is younger and the better person. Butler is proven but that trade is an overpay. Danny is the one who likes to do the fleecing, not vice versa. It is a small percentage who would make that trade. Fierce, you are fighting over the top for a fringe trade proposal. Brown will shut you up as Rosalie predicted. Morris is a whole new ballplayer from last year looking healthy and hungry in his prime. Rozier looks special. Butler has been a very bad teammate at times and Ojeleye contained the Freak in playoff games. This is outrageous, almost as if it is a "performance art" presentation.

Rozier can be matched no matter what. Golden State just admitted Boston is their only true threat. Have some faith. Brown is good and just slumping. Even if he isn't as good as Jimmy, he's close enough for a lot less money.
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Re: Celts Should Explore A Jimmy Butler Trade

Post by fierce on Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:27 pm

dboss wrote:Jaylen is a 2.  Hayward is a 3.  If Boston got Butler you have the same issue you are complaing about now as far as minute distribution.

But at this point you should forget about Butler.  The Celtics are not interested in acquiring him because they do not need him and they would not be able to max him out next year.

The fact is that you do not need Butler if you have Jaylen.

The Celtics have draft picks to replace both Rozier and Morris.  Have you been sleeping?

Draft picks are unproven players.

Why do think the Wolves did not accept Houston's offer of 4 draft picks.

Rozier and Morris will end up being better than most draft picks you can find.

What you're missing is if the Celts convert Morris, Rozier, and Jaylen for Butler, that will enable Hayward, Tatum, and Butler to play more than 30 minutes per game.

Totally nothing wrong with that.

Celts will always have a scorer on the floor.

Why do you think the Celts always go on a scoring drought?
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Re: Celts Should Explore A Jimmy Butler Trade

Post by fierce on Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:31 pm

Phil Pressey wrote:Jaylen is younger and the better person. Butler is proven but that trade is an overpay. Danny is the one who likes to do the fleecing, not vice versa. It is a small percentage who would make that trade. Fierce, you are fighting over the top for a fringe trade proposal. Brown will shut you up as Rosalie predicted. Morris is a whole new ballplayer from last year looking healthy and hungry in his prime. Rozier looks special. Butler has been a very bad teammate at times and Ojeleye contained the Freak in playoff games. This is outrageous, almost as if it is a "performance art" presentation.

Rozier can be matched no matter what. Golden State just admitted Boston is their only true threat. Have some faith. Brown is good and just slumping. Even if he isn't as good as Jimmy, he's close enough for a lot less money.

There is no question about Jaylen's talent.
But if you're picking Jaylen over Jimmy Butler then clearly you're a biased Celtic fan.
It's just a fact that Jimmy Butler is better.

Rozier can only be matched to a certain level because if there's a team desperate enough, Celts will not pay more money than what Smart got for a backup PG like Rozier.

On another team, Rozier will be a starter.

Celts can give Rozier money, but not a starting job.

It's just a matter of time before one these very good Celtic players will complain because of lack of playing time.

On other teams, Smart, Morris, and Rozier are starters.

Even Baynes is a starter.
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Re: Celts Should Explore A Jimmy Butler Trade

Post by dboss on Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:35 pm

Fierce

It would be good if Celtics fans appreciated the remarkable team that has been assembled by Ainge.

I am going to sit back and enjoy watching them play. So far Danny has made all the right moves.  Our coach is one of the very best in the league.  We have great veteran leadership, young studs and a treasure chest filled with first round  picks.

There is nothing to complain about.
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Re: Celts Should Explore A Jimmy Butler Trade

Post by cowens/oldschool on Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:38 pm

fierce wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:Jimmy Butler has already taken more games off than Gordon Hayward.

That's by design.

Butler's camp wants to force a trade.
That's why he keeps resting to avoid injury.

In his last game, he torched Lebron and the Lakers for 32 points, 6-7 from 3pt land.

He's also averaging 22.5 ppg this season.

Do you really want a player that is such a diva he calls his shots of when he plays, all players risk injury by playing/competing at this level, he’s at his prime at 29 and dictates to management when he plays...??? WTF is wrong with this world, none of the greats or even valuable role players would pull this shit!!!
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Re: Celts Should Explore A Jimmy Butler Trade

Post by fierce on Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:40 pm

What you guys are missing is what's actually happening on the court.

Right now the Celts only have 2 players averaging 30+ minutes per game, Kyrie and Tatum.

When Smart, Rozier, and Morris come off the bench, that means Baynes is with them and only one starter is on the court with the bench players.

Converting Rozier, Morris, and Jaylen to Jimmy Butler means the Celts will always have 2 starters/scorers on the court at all times.
That means less scoring droughts.

If you guys have been watching, Celts always go on a scoring drought every game.
That's why the last game against the Pistons was closer than it should have been.
It would've been game over in the last 5 minutes if the Celts didn't go on a scoring drought.

Same thing happened against the Raps and Kawhi.

Celts tend to go on a scoring drought.

Rarely do you see GSW go on a scoring drought.

Star power trumps depth all the time.

When was the last time an NBA team won a championship with no multiple All-Stars?

Right now the Celts have stars but it's not enough because of GSW.

We need to match GSW's star power.

Lebron with Kyrie only managed to win one game against GSW in 2017.

Without Kyrie, Lebron couldn't win one game against GSW this year.
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Re: Celts Should Explore A Jimmy Butler Trade

Post by dboss on Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:41 pm

Of course I am a biased Celtics fan and proud of it. Jaylen is not better today than Butler but he is better than Butler was after game 7 of his third year in the league.

Butler has no upside and he is a pain in the ass. He is not coming here. Forget about it.
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Re: Celts Should Explore A Jimmy Butler Trade

Post by dboss on Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:45 pm

Fierce

Go read the GSW post. They have more respect for the Celtics than you do.
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Re: Celts Should Explore A Jimmy Butler Trade

Post by fierce on Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:45 pm

dboss wrote:Fierce

It would be good if Celtics fans appreciated the remarkable team that has been assembled by Ainge.

I am going to sit back and enjoy watching them play. So far Danny has made all the right moves.  Our coach is one of the very best in the league.  We have great veteran leadership, young studs and a treasure chest filled with first round  picks.

There is nothing to complain about.

That's the mentality of a Raptors fan.

Every time the Celts won a championship, Celts always had more star power.

From the Bill Russell era in the 50s and 60s to the 70s of Cowens to the Big 3 of the 80s and the Big 3 of 2008, Celts always had the better team.

Celts never won in the 1990s because they didn't have great players.

I'm not saying this current Celtics team is not great.
This Celtics team would be good enough to win a championship on any other era.
But right now GSW has 5 star players.
The bar is set so high in this era.
Celts need to keep up.

One scoring drought in a crucial playoff or finals game and it's all over for the Celts.

Reason why GSW is so good is because scoring is not an issue for them.
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Re: Celts Should Explore A Jimmy Butler Trade

Post by fierce on Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:48 pm

dboss wrote:Fierce

Go read the GSW post.  They have more respect for the Celtics than you do.  

You really think GSW is being sincere?

They just don't want to fire up the Celts.

In case you didn't notice, Celts go on a scoring drought way too often.

That's why they lost to the Raps and Kawhi.

Can't have something like that happen in the playoffs.
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Re: Celts Should Explore A Jimmy Butler Trade

Post by fierce on Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:50 pm

dboss wrote:Of course I am a biased Celtics fan and proud of it.  Jaylen is not better today than Butler but he is better than Butler was after game 7 of his third year in the league.

Butler has no upside and he is a pain in the ass.  He is not coming here.  Forget about it.  

If not Butler then your proposal of Rozier and Yabu packaged in a deal works for me.
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Re: Celts Should Explore A Jimmy Butler Trade

Post by fierce on Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:52 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:
fierce wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:Jimmy Butler has already taken more games off than Gordon Hayward.

That's by design.

Butler's camp wants to force a trade.
That's why he keeps resting to avoid injury.

In his last game, he torched Lebron and the Lakers for 32 points, 6-7 from 3pt land.

He's also averaging 22.5 ppg this season.

Do you really want a player that is such a diva he calls his shots of when he plays, all players risk injury by playing/competing at this level, he’s at his prime at 29 and dictates to management when he plays...??? WTF is wrong with this world, none of the greats or even valuable role players would pull this shit!!!

A compromise would be to not let Rozier or Morris or both walk away and the Celts get nothing.

Right now I'm fine if the Celts trade Rozier for a draft pick.

Removing Rozier will enable Smart to play more PG and Jaylen and Hayward will get more playing time.

Giving Jaylen and Hayward 30 minutes per game will make the Celts a better team.

Don't get me wrong, there's absolutely nothing with Rozier.
In fact, he's playing so well.
But if the Celts don't make a move soon, Celts will end up losing him for nothing.
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Re: Celts Should Explore A Jimmy Butler Trade

Post by cowens/oldschool on Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:39 am

We are stacked and our continuity and chemistry will only get better and you want to trade pieces? For Butler...??? Glad your not in charge, we may even trade Smart or let Morris walk at seasons end to create more time for Rozier and JT, JB, GH the next year. I like Rozier over Smart if I have to keep one. Either way this team should be kept together to grow and fight together for the championship run this season. Then afterwards Danny will have a better idea of which way to go....
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Re: Celts Should Explore A Jimmy Butler Trade

Post by fierce on Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:56 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:We are stacked and our continuity and chemistry will only get better and you want to trade pieces? For Butler...??? Glad your not in charge, we may even trade Smart or let Morris walk at seasons end to create more time for Rozier and JT, JB, GH the next year. I like Rozier over Smart if I have to keep one. Either way this team should be kept together to grow and fight together for the championship run this season. Then afterwards Danny will have a better idea of which way to go....

I also like Rozier over Smart.

Problem is Rozier not only wants big money, he also wants a starting job.

Ainge giving Smart big money last summer means the Celts are committed to him long term.

Right now Morris is very productive.
He's providing offense on a regular basis.

If we don't think ahead then there's no better idea of which way to go because Rozier will surely be gone and Morris might leave also.
The end result is Celts get nothing in return.

Just enjoy the depth for one season?
That's not practical.
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Re: Celts Should Explore A Jimmy Butler Trade

Post by fierce on Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:33 am

On the subject of the 1987 Finals, the Lakers upgraded their roster at the trade deadline when they acquired Mychal Thompson.

Mychal Thompson was the difference in the 87 Finals.
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Re: Celts Should Explore A Jimmy Butler Trade

Post by cowens/oldschool on Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:22 am

fierce wrote:On the subject of the 1987 Finals, the Lakers upgraded their roster at the trade deadline when they acquired Mychal Thompson.

Mychal Thompson was the difference in the 87 Finals.

If we had Len Bias we still would have won even with them getting MT.
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Re: Celts Should Explore A Jimmy Butler Trade

Post by mrkleen09 on Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:43 am

With all due respect to the Fierce I used to know, who was an intelligent and shrewd basketball mind - I dont understand WTF is going on with you lately!!!

There is a thread about Yabu where there are 9 posts and 6 of them are from Fierce.  Half of them are Fierce, talking to himself.  In this thread there are a few places where we see 3 and 4 replies from Fierce in a row.  

This is like an early morning Twitter rant from the President or some other nonsensical stream of consciousness.  Very unsettling to see, and honestly not a good representation of yourself.  

You are undoing years of smart, logical posting with this foolishness.   Please give it a rest.
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Re: Celts Should Explore A Jimmy Butler Trade

Post by Phil Pressey on Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:54 am

Rozier can be matched. I'm not making the same mistake as last year wasting words on Marcus Smart and Aron Baynes. They are both back. Nearly everyone was positive Rozier or Smart had to go and Baynes was probably gone. They are all still on the team.

Kyrie Irving could be the one traded, but I doubt it. I am going to make an effort this year to appreciate the team for what it is and minimize my roster speculation.

The NBA is set up to limit how many supermax contracts can be handed out. Golden State is going to lose at least one of their stars. This isn't the 60's with Chamberlain playing all 48 minutes. GS is not as sure a deal as it seems? Injuries are part of the game. They are as vulnerable as anyone. The modern game results in injuries and the need to look at it like a marathon, not a sprint. The Celtics in June will be much better than they are now. That is the plan. Brad's teams always get better. He makes the game fun for these guys. Butler is a cynical egohead diva who might crush chemistry. The season just started. Even Tatum can play a lot better and will. Morris and a few others are the only ones who showed up from game one. This is taking a bit of time.

Smart is finally getting it. He seems to deliberately be taking less shots. Everyone is buying in for at least one year. This is old school in the moment. This is legacy building on individual and team levels. Morris has embraced the opportunity. I haven't heard one complaint from Rozier. Smart was a top pick and never complains about not starting.

The season needs to play out. Kyrie could get hurt or regress for defense or he could be cementing himself in the next KG/Pierce or Bird captain role.

I'd take continued flexibility over going all in consolidating for divas who've never won anything. UMASS/Amherst had that one great year with Camby. I remember there were eight guys getting twenty minutes and they refused to lose. The players were always fresh and on the same page. The C's could do that this year. Irving seems anti-stats and a thinker type. He wants to be the anti-Lebron and grow as team. Hayward and Horford don't need a million minutes.

Once everything settles down, the Celtics will start piling up a lot of wins. This may have already started.

Ojeleye is currently the odd man out. There are plenty of minutes available for nine or ten players.

Fierce, you were 100% correct on Baynes. You said Ainge brought him in for a reason and let's see if he can fill the role.

Let's see if Irving, Brown, Smart and Rozier can work as the back court. Four guys is always the number. If Rozier is so great, Brown can play more small forward or the team can further pamper Irving so he is 100% for playoffs. Future budgets and years can take care of themselves.

This year is about seeing if Kyrie can play defense and stay healthy. It's about if Hayward can come back to 100% and help win #18. This is about Horford at the peak of his prime fighting to prove he merits legacy.

Guys like Rozier, Smart, Morris, Theis and Baynes must know Rondo can talk a lot of trash because he helped win a title. Brown and Tatum are the phenoms. Hayward, Kyrie and Al are the Big Three.

I'm very impressed with Morris and Baynes for attitude. I also like what I've seen with Smart and Rozier.

I truly believe the C's are about to go off on a big winning trend. Maybe they won't win sixteen in a row like last year, but I'm chugging on the green kool-aid. I was getting a bit worried but Hayward is trying his best. Kyrie got into shape after Tommy took him to the woodshed. I like Kyrie and hope he can stay injury free and keep hustling on defense.
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Re: Celts Should Explore A Jimmy Butler Trade

Post by Matty on Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:39 am

[quote="fierce"]
dboss wrote:
What you're missing is if the Celts convert Morris, Rozier, and Jaylen for Butler, that will enable Hayward, Tatum, and Butler to play more than 30 minutes per game.


This is really flawed logic, first off, Tatum IS playing more than 30 minutes a game (so no need to trade for butler just to see Tatum gets something he is already getting) Secondly I think the office looks at the teams current situation (only Tatum and Irving are playing more than 30 minutes a game {32.6 tatum/31.6 Irving}) as a pro and not a con, we can affords to keep guys minutes down due to our depth.

just a few notes on that

7-0 bucks, three guys over 30 minutes a game and no one over 31 minutes a game

Toronto has 3 players over 30 minutes a game, lowry and leonard both over 34 a game

Trust the processors: 5 guys who are playing over 30 minutes a game, though they are all like 19 so mebbe it wont affect them so much

Its a long season, and we are not looking for individual stats, I'm sure Brad's mindset is more like Pops, just get through the regular season as healthy as possible and play for the gawd**** title when it counts. Our depth is going to let guys take more time to recover from injuries so they are closer to 100% when it matters, which begins in the second half of april. Our depth allows us to play a lot of guys in every game, limiting minutes. yes LIMITING, not trying to get guys more minutes.


This team is doing just fine, a bit of a rocky start, but everything is evening out, a recent articule points out right now as put together the Warriors think we are the guys with the best shot at beating them.

Since calling people a cancer is more and more too sensitive an issue, I'll say Butler is like ebola, you don't allow yourself to contract ebola just to help deal with a bit of constipation, and this team isn't even constipated, just wasn't regular there for a few games is all.

this entire topic is ridiculous, its starting to make me wish we could have Irving get another conspiracy theory going so we could have something more realistic to discuss.
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Re: Celts Should Explore A Jimmy Butler Trade

Post by fierce on Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:08 am

Time will tell.

But those who didn't want Isaiah traded for Kyrie are now happy that Kyrie is a Celtic.

Those who doubted Kawhi Leonard a few months ago are eating crow.

And those who believe GSW fears the Celts are gullible.

Lebron has beaten the Celts in the playoffs every year since 2015.
But Lebron has only won 1 game in the Finals the last 2 years against GSW.

Time to open your eyes people.

Celts go on a scoring drought every game.

Again, time will tell.
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Re: Celts Should Explore A Jimmy Butler Trade

Post by fierce on Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:16 am

If you guys don't want Jimmy Butler then that's fine.

The point is this current Celtics team still needs an upgrade to match GSW's firepower.

Danny Ainge is a risk taker, unlike most of the Celtic fans here.

So those expecting this current Celtics team to be intact until the end of the season will be disappointed.
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Re: Celts Should Explore A Jimmy Butler Trade

Post by TheHat on Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:32 am

[quote="Phil Pressey"]Rozier can be matched. I'm not making the same mistake as last year wasting words on Marcus Smart and Aron Baynes. They are both back. Nearly everyone was positive Rozier or Smart had to go and Baynes was probably gone. They are all still on the team.
<snip>

Nice write up, Pressey, you covered all the angles and optimistic too. I like what Smart is doing. Elsewhere is an interesting discussion about Irving vs. Rozier. Rozier is quick, can defend, can rebound, can even shoot. Irving has an otherwordly handle and can make a good percentage on long shots and short. Tough to give up that ability to score and get in the paint.

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Re: Celts Should Explore A Jimmy Butler Trade

Post by mrkleen09 on Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:24 pm

fierce wrote: Those who doubted Kawhi Leonard a few months ago are eating crow.

And this hits keep on coming.

Who is eating crow 7 games into a season?

Lets just remind everyone that you wanted the Celtics to give up Terry Rozier, Jaylen Brown AND the Kings first round pick for a guy who has already missed 2 of the first 6 games and will be playing next summer in Los Angeles.



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Re: Celts Should Explore A Jimmy Butler Trade

Post by dboss on Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:32 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:
fierce wrote: Those who doubted Kawhi Leonard a few months ago are eating crow.

And this hits keep on coming.

Who is eating crow 7 games into a season?

Lets just remind everyone that you wanted the Celtics to give up Terry Rozier, Jaylen Brown AND the Kings first round pick for a guy who has already missed 2 of the first 6 games and will be playing next summer in Los Angeles.  




Kleen this has turn into a Zombie thread. It is dead to me right this second!
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Re: Celts Should Explore A Jimmy Butler Trade

Post by gyso on Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:40 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:
fierce wrote: Those who doubted Kawhi Leonard a few months ago are eating crow.

And this hits keep on coming.

Who is eating crow 7 games into a season?

Lets just remind everyone that you wanted the Celtics to give up Terry Rozier, Jaylen Brown AND the Kings first round pick for a guy who has already missed 2 of the first 6 games and will be playing next summer in Los Angeles.  


I agree. Any guesses on Leonard, his minutes played, etc. is premature at best.

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