Feeling like the Jeffersons

WOW once again!! Just when I thought this game was going to be a "normal" playoff game for the Celtics, the fourth quarter comes along and blows me away!

I was trying to find a "momentum" thread for this series (if there is one) at least through Game 4 and where things may go going forward. The 4th quarter of Game 4, with all its facets presents something ala George and Weezie. Everyone clap their hands now and sing the theme song, but it took a whole lotta tryin' just to get up that hill...

Game 1 LAL burns us good, up by twenty we get it down to 13, but never closer. Game 2, close to the end, foul trouble, everyone out of rotation, etc. We manage to "escape" or "survive" as my local newspaper headlined it. Game 3 back in Boston, LAL gets up big again, not as much, though. We are able to get it down to 1, but just can't break through for the victory. LAL wins by 7. Game 4, nice (and this is for you LACelt) normal distribution around 0 for leads by both teams, not skewed like earlier games in LAL's favor. Fouls are normal this time for the first time. Then you have this completely out of place 4th quarter where our bench stands up to and dismantles the LAL starters for the victory. All along we have been saying we need more than one of our starters to get going at the same time. That's LA way, not ours.

Shame on us (OK, me) for not recognizing that it is TEAM once again with balance that's going to take this title, not just getting one more starter going. In LA, it's still Kobe and Co. And we've seen this act so many times we can dismantle it in our sleep. Even tj's going to have to realize from Phil's complete avoidance of the subject in the Q&A that he had no plan for Nate and Glen and the bench. And it may cost them the series, just like it did ORL. Heck, we haven't even gone zone yet and we know via PHX that's worth two more victories in and of itself. I know, we ain't going zone, because we're going to win it our way, but it's fun to speculate and make LA nervous.

For the Celtics, it has been a progressively, gradual improving state for us. Phil is getting into the zone I love when he's starting to realize this may not be their year, or at least not going to plan which for him blows a microchip. He will make the adjustments. Adjust to what? Phil got caught with his pants down. Just put the blindfold back on, grab your stick and keep swinging. Bynum will be back, so will Kobe. But the 4th of Game 4 may well be remembered for Doc's intra-game move to keep the guys that were hot out on the floor as the starters cheered from the bench like they were back in high school.

This 4th quarter effort might quite possibly be the picture in the dictionary next to the word Team. Ridiculous!

We're clearly not done yet. We're not over the "hill" yet, George, but we're very close. If we are indeed gettin' our turn at bat, Game 5 will tell us whether my momentum theory is FOS or not, maybe where we get up big and stay up. We won't win if we just keep going back and forth trading wins. I do like the fact that possibly two of our remaining games are in LA. Lakers can't like that. Start blowing up the balloons...

Here's to the Jefferson and the Boston Celtics!!

Man, the birds are chirping today.
After game 3 this place was a ghost town.
I expect it to be very quiet on Monday morning.

TJ

ITS THAT KIND OF SERIES

whoever wins twice inna row will prolly take it.

We can play much much better.

Two things jump right out at me...post game...
Our bench is now completely comfortable playing against the LA starters minus Bynum, they know they can do damage and I think they want more....
Phil Jackson is starting to feel the pressure finally, he made comments last night about Boston playing out of desperation, with their backs to the wall and getting away with it...This is a good sign when he's starting to lose his cool....

tjmakz wrote:Man, the birds are chirping today.
After game 3 this place was a ghost town.
I expect it to be very quiet on Monday morning.

TJ,

Yep, the sun is shining on Celtics Planet and the birds are happy.

Nature 101.


bob

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Come on, tj, you are going to have to acknowledge Phil's 4th quarter bench v. starters gaff. His reaction in the presser was such that he knew he should have planned for that aspect, but completely discounted it/ignored it because it was so remote, would never happen again especially against his Lakers defense with or without Bynum and had nothing within the game to combat it. He lost the game because of it or he's at least responsible for it. I wouldn't want to talk about it either.

We'll know with Game 5 how significant the 4th quarter was and whether we've finally turned the corner yet.

Jeb, you're right. We still haven't played a great, complete game yet and we won't win if we even keep trading games back and forth. We shouldn't even be here. But we have improved solidly each game, just like in the three previous series, inter and intra series. I don't know if you can say the same about LA to this point. "Conventional" wisdom should have Lakers winning Game 5. But this series is so far from conventional. At least the fouls were down to normal for the first time but the 4th quarter was off the radar completely.

Nate played well. He desreves credit for it. Phil has a plan for each player. It's not like Adam Morrison coming off the bench and scoring 20 points and surprising everyone.
Rondo and Nate together had 22 points and 5 assists in 48 minutes. Good numbers, but nothing that can't be overcome.

When players miss shots, game plans for opposing coaches look great.
When they make shots, the game plans look bad.

Do you give Phil credit for making adjustments on Ray at half time of game 2?
After half time of game 2 Ray is I think 6 for 29 in FG attempts.

tjmakz wrote:Nate played well. He desreves credit for it. Phil has a plan for each player. It's not like Adam Morrison coming off the bench and scoring 20 points and surprising everyone.
Rondo and Nate together had 22 points and 5 assists in 48 minutes. Good numbers, but nothing that can't be overcome.

When players miss shots, game plans for opposing coaches look great.
When they make shots, the game plans look bad.

Do you give Phil credit for making adjustments on Ray at half time of game 2?
After half time of game 2 Ray is I think 6 for 29 in FG attempts.

TJ,

Phil adjusted for Ray in game 2 by putting Kobe on him. Unfortunately for the Lakers, that turned Rondo, who had been guarded by Kobe to that point, loose. I'm not sure shifting the opponent's strength from one known threat to another known threat is necessarily "adjusting". I suppose technically it is, but it looks more like just smearing the same amount of paint around over a larger surface. You're covering more area, but it doesn't look better. Not Phil's fault, really. He doesn't have enough players who can effectively guard Rondo AND Ray if they're both on.

There's a difference between making the best of a tough situation, like what I described above, and not stopping things that are going bad with players that can stop them. I'm referring to all the layups the Celtics got last night. Sure, we blew a ton of them, but they were high-quality shots. It's the opposing coaching staff's jobs to stop them from getting layups, not hoping we miss them, and Phil didn't do that last night.

After Bynum went out, that's something else, then you're back to the "paint smearing" analogy. But between Rondo, Pierce and Allen we must have blown close to a dozen layups and wide-open-usually-made shots in the first half alone. Making changes to stop those layups is "adjusting". The Lakers didn't.



bob

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LA's interior defense was bad last night.
A big part of that was Bynum not being a factor.
At the end of the first quarter Phil said that Bynum had no lift on the basket he made.
I think Phil will give Bynum a very short leash in game 5.
If he is laboring after 2-3 minutes, they need to take him out.
I hope Phil goes to Mbenga first.
Mbenga is their best defensive and most athletic big man and is just as long as Bynum. Obviously he is offensively limited. He could be a longer Perkins if given the opportunity.
If Kobe and Gasol can carry the offense, Mbenga can dramatically help the defense. I criticize Phil for under-utilizing Mbenga and his defensive abilities.
LA didn't lose last night because they couldn't score. They lost because they gave up 36 points in the 4th quarter.

Yeah, I'll give him credit for that adjustment but at that point the damage was done. I don't even think Ray came out in the second half thinking that was going to continue, for that game or any of the remaining games. I hate to say this, but for Ray's performance of 32 points in that game with the string of 3's etc, as good as it was, it was almost un-Celtic like, more Kobe-like. While that was what we needed for that game, we probably won't ever need that or see that again from Ray. Rising up for a huge game, yes, that's Ray-like but overall, on a regular basis, that's not Ray. I'd say what transpired in the 4th quarter of Game 4 was more Celtic-tradition-like. Out of nowhere, unscripted, unexpected, navy-seal like, laser-like precision and execution. Come on, the bench of all places to look!! And certainly not Nate and BB of all people. Sure, Ray has sucked after that half relatively speaking. But Ray's not the point or a problem or the problem. In and of himself, he doesn't matter.

That's the rub with this Celtic team. You can't get used to anything or count on anything or any one person at any certain time. But you know someone you don't expect is always going to stand and deliver at the right moment. You just don't know who. If you think it drives opposing teams and coaches crazy, how do you think we feel being their fans?! You guys will always have Kobe. 28 other teams in the NBA would kill for that kind of solace, dependablility and reliablility. He is off the charts. He killed last night. To most of our credit, the Celtics and probably most of us on this board have a bad/great case of ADD or ADHD. If we and the Celtics were forced to bottle up all the bs from this season or even all the playoff bs, we'd be pretending to eat popcorn and cheering with LeBron, Jack Nicholson and the rest of the cast from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest right now watching the World Series.

This Celtic team is a multi-dimensional, moving target with no one piece sticking out more than another. It makes it extremely difficult for anyone who wants to discuss X's and O's or match-ups or adjustments or plan an attack or even discuss what happened after an attack to grasp what's really going on. You wind up looking and acting like Phil did in the press conference.

Doc says it best. "We're not changing. We're not adjusting anything or adjusting very, very little. We're playing our game." He's so confident in that statement, his team and the Boston Celtics organization that he's bet the farm on it. Doc's never left the bench out there in the fourth quarter that long against any starting opposing team and probably never will again. I'll say it again, because it may be coming more clear now, the 1984 Lakers did the same thing. They changed nothing line-up-wise barring a few scrubs yet beat the Celtics in 1985. This current Laker's team went out and got Ron Artest (like LAL went and got Wilt in the late 60's to finally beat Boston) specifically to stop a LeBron or secondarily a Paul Pierce if the old geysers made it to the finals. Believe me, I want the Lakers to be the first to disprove the definition of insanity.

Will all this be enough for the Celtics to win the title? I have absolutely no idea. But you have to admire the strategy. It certainly spooked Phil last night. But he'll have the troops ready for Game 5. For me I will, if the Celtics win this whole thing, point right back to the 4th quarter of Game 4 as the turning point.

tjmakz wrote:LA's interior defense was bad last night.
A big part of that was Bynum not being a factor.
At the end of the first quarter Phil said that Bynum had no lift on the basket he made.
I think Phil will give Bynum a very short leash in game 5.
If he is laboring after 2-3 minutes, they need to take him out.
I hope Phil goes to Mbenga first.
Mbenga is their best defensive and most athletic big man and is just as long as Bynum. Obviously he is offensively limited. He could be a longer Perkins if given the opportunity.
If Kobe and Gasol can carry the offense, Mbenga can dramatically help the defense. I criticize Phil for under-utilizing Mbenga and his defensive abilities.
LA didn't lose last night because they couldn't score. They lost because they gave up 36 points in the 4th quarter.

TJ,

Exactly so.

Davis was taking Odom off the dribble with ease. If I was Phil, the adjustment I would have made would be to immediately double Davis. He's not that tall, so throwing a pass over Odom and, say Gasol (?), would have been tough and it takes pressure off Odom. Odom didn't shoot a lot, which is why he didn't have a ton of points, but he shot 5-10 which is good and his offensive moves were very fluid and effective. Defensively, though, Davis ate him alive. He needed help. He needed an adjustment but none were forthcoming from the Lakers bench.

As far as Mbenga goes, Phil has a history of riding his stars into the ground, if necessary. He's never been a "deep bench" coach like Doc is and has been for years. I don't watch the Lakers as much as you but I have to believe there are reasons why Phil doesn't trust DJ and Powell in these type of situations. I mean, when you're getting killed on the boards, primarily by one player, you'd think he'd try something different. What he did was to put Artest on Ray Allen, which took Artest away from the basket on defense.

bob

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I understand Phil's mentality that you stick with who got you there.
Doc didn't pull Ray after 0 for 13 and 1 for 5 in the first half of game 4.

Under normal circumstances BBD is not going to have his way with Odom like he did last night. BBD hit some shots that don't go in many nights.

Phil uses his bench when he has effective players. He utilized players like Steve Kerr, Craig Hodges, Rick Fox, Robert Horry and many others because he could trust that they would deliver. Outside of Odom, Phil has no reason to trust these guys.
I am sure Phil wanted more depth at the trade deadline but management said no to many players such as Kirk Hinrich. I didn't agree at the time, but LA's management/ownership felt they had enough to take them all the way without adding many millions in payroll. In retrospect, they probably wish they had Hinrich who is an excellent on the ball defender.
LA was very lucky that Boston missed some many lay ups and open shots. They need to view that game like they were blown out by Boston because that is what should have happened.
There is a reason why Odom didn't shoot a lot. It is because he was getting the ball near the 3 point line. He is almost unstoppable when he wants to be (very inconsistent) AND he is moving within the lane. His movement in the lane without the ball and offensive rebounds can be superb but Boston has pushed him out of the lane and is making him catch the ball 20-22 feet from the basket.
Odom is the one player that I expect to have a huge game 5.

When Odom stays out of foul trouble and gets minutes he produces and puts a lot of pressure on the C's defense. The problem is, if Bynum is out and Odom is producing who do the Lakers use off the bench and not get torched during substitution time? The Lakers need Bynum for 20-25 minutes a game to beat the C's 2 out of 3.

TJ's point about watching film as if a blowout is spot on. Phil Jackson will have his team ready for Sunday's game. Maybe Mbenga may get some minutes.

This next game should be the best of the series.

Hoop

LA was killed in game 4 against OKC by 21 and was tied 2-2. They made many adjustments and won the next 2.
They were 2-2 against Phoenix and looked like they had no answer for Phoenix zone D and 3 point shooting, but made adjustments and won the next 2.
Phoenix and OKC are not Boston but LA has shown to be able to re-group after tough losses.

tjmakz wrote:LA was killed in game 4 against OKC by 21 and was tied 2-2. They made many adjustments and won the next 2.
They were 2-2 against Phoenix and looked like they had no answer for Phoenix zone D and 3 point shooting, but made adjustments and won the next 2.
Phoenix and OKC are not Boston but LA has shown to be able to re-group after tough losses.

TJ,

So has Boston.

Blowouts by Cleveland and LA hasn't stopped us yet.

bob

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Then this should be considerably easier for them in that they haven't lost back-to-back games yet in this series, nor for that matter won two in a row. They don't have to do either to win the trophy. But we are running out of games.

Tj-
You're right, I'd be blown away if LA looks in game 5 like they did in game 4. On the other hand, I don't expect the C's to look the same either...the starters may play a lot more aggressively at key moments..you just never know...
In this series every game is independent of the last one except, the loser of the last one seems to win the next one. If it continues, that bodes well for LA...but no trend seems too safe so .... as usual, nobody knows what the freak is going to happen next...Don't you love it?

There is no predicting what will happen in any game.
Trying to analyze match ups has been a true waste of time in this series.
I agree that winning/losing the last game means nothing for the next game.

bobheckler wrote:

tjmakz wrote:LA was killed in game 4 against OKC by 21 and was tied 2-2. They made many adjustments and won the next 2.
They were 2-2 against Phoenix and looked like they had no answer for Phoenix zone D and 3 point shooting, but made adjustments and won the next 2.
Phoenix and OKC are not Boston but LA has shown to be able to re-group after tough losses.

TJ,

So has Boston.

Blowouts by Cleveland and LA hasn't stopped us yet.

bob

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bob,

You are right but going into game 5, the Lakers are the team that is looking/needing to make adjustments.

tjmakz wrote:

bobheckler wrote:

tjmakz wrote:LA was killed in game 4 against OKC by 21 and was tied 2-2. They made many adjustments and won the next 2.
They were 2-2 against Phoenix and looked like they had no answer for Phoenix zone D and 3 point shooting, but made adjustments and won the next 2.
Phoenix and OKC are not Boston but LA has shown to be able to re-group after tough losses.

TJ,

So has Boston.

Blowouts by Cleveland and LA hasn't stopped us yet.

bob

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bob,

You are right but going into game 5, the Lakers are the team that is looking/needing to make adjustments.

TJ,

Right again.

A lot of LA's adjustments will depend upon the condition of Bynum's knee. If he can be productive, they will be very tough. If he's hobbled like he was yesterday Phil will have to make major adjustments.

They won't have the beef in the paint, but they'll be faster. So, you would think that running would be an adjustment Phil would consider.

Unfortunately, Gasol and Bryant have been logging heavy minutes these playoffs in general and especially in this series.

Kobe is averaging 40mpg in the finals, is shooting 40.9% and 37% from 3. Minutes up, fg% down. That would suggest some fatigue. Phil said Kobe was tired, Kobe denies it. I don't believe Kobe. He wouldn't tell his grandmother about a weakness, much less the press.

Gasol has been averaging 43mpg. His shooting and rebounding are off a bit, but not a lot. Still, 43mpg is a lot for 6-7 games in a 2 week period.

bob

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dbrown,

The unpredictability of who is going to come up big for the Celtics has been one of their charms. But I wonder about the potential downsides. That tendency has to make it more difficult to devise game plans. What happens if it's one of those nights when nobody steps forward?

So far, I think Doc has done a great job of quick recognition and in-game adjustments to take advantage of who's hot and diminish the negative impact of who's not. But even his relative success in doing so could be the source of the most damaging effect of all. Could that unpredictability, and the reactive kinds of coaching it forces be one of the factors that could induce Doc to walk this offseason? Having to pull rabbits out of a hat is aided by having a lot of rabbits; but doing it constantly has to cause some wear and tear.

I just hope he can keep it up for two more games.

Sam

Tj


The lakers could never play with the same level of intensity that you witnessed last night.

the series is tied 2-2 and LA still has game 5 to play in Boston and 2 back home. They still have the homecourt advantage and will be favored to win this sereis.

However before the ballons drift down from the rafters at the Staples center there is still plenty of ball to be played.

At some point the Celtics offense is going to start clicking. They are getting a ton of great looks but just not knocking down shots. The defense has carried them this far.

If I was a laker fan I would be very concerned because Boston's defense is beginning to thwart the LA offense. More importantly the bynum injury situation makes his impact 50/50 at best. This is a shame because the lakers are significantly better with a heathly Bynum and you hate to see any player injured.

The Celtics have been rotating 4 bigs all series and LA has been playing with 2 1/2. This will take its toll on Gasol and odom and Bynum if he plays. It is a slow churning trend that I believe will result in Boston winning this series.


dboss

Bob,

You say Kobe is averaging 40 mpg in this series? I wish my Subaru would do that.

Sam

Sam wrote:Bob,

You say Kobe is averaging 40 mpg in this series? I wish my Subaru would do that.

Sam

How many minutes a night does your Subaru give you, Sam?