All medium sized players?

by **wideclyde** Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:16 pm

With three picks in the first round the Cs have selected three players who are all just about the same height (6'5-6'7) who all apparently play the wing position.

Is this confusing to more folks than just me?

On a team that has Brown, Tatum and Hayward AND a huge need for center types three MORE wing players? Really?

by **worcester** Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:52 pm

Like I said, we'll be resigning Landry to replace Baynes.

by **bobheckler** Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:05 am

I wouldn't be surprised if the only players left from last year's team come September are Tatum, Smart, Williams and maybe Theis. There might not have been anything he could do about Horford (rumors are $25M/year, 4 years. For a 33 year old) and Kyrie is Kyrie, but trading the very affordable and effective Baynes strips our front court down to bare metal with a raw Time Lord and an under-sized Theis. Clearly he is creating cap space but for whom? Weneed a starting center AND a proven scorer. Bringing back IT, even for cheap, won't be enough.

bob

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by **bobheckler** Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:19 am

Jay King
Jay King @ByJayKing
about 5 minutes ago
Danny Ainge on the Celtics’ state: “We’re prepared for this. ... I’m very confident.”

reply retweet like

bob
MY NOTE: Well, there ya go. Straight from the horse's mouth. SOMETHING(S) is coming, which means last night's draft is useless as a guide.

.

by **gyso** Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:08 am

bobheckler wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if the only players left from last year's team come September are Tatum, Smart, Williams and maybe Theis. There might not have been anything he could do about Horford (rumors are $25M/year, 4 years. For a 33 year old) and Kyrie is Kyrie, but trading the very affordable and effective Baynes strips our front court down to bare metal with a raw Time Lord and an under-sized Theis. Clearly he is creating cap space but for whom? Weneed a starting center AND a proven scorer. Bringing back IT, even for cheap, won't be enough.

bob

.

What about Brown? Did you not list him because you think he will be traded?

by **k_j_88** Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:44 am

Last night's draft was just useless period.

KJ

by **bobheckler** Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:00 am

gyso wrote:
bobheckler wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if the only players left from last year's team come September are Tatum, Smart, Williams and maybe Theis. There might not have been anything he could do about Horford (rumors are $25M/year, 4 years. For a 33 year old) and Kyrie is Kyrie, but trading the very affordable and effective Baynes strips our front court down to bare metal with a raw Time Lord and an under-sized Theis. Clearly he is creating cap space but for whom? Weneed a starting center AND a proven scorer. Bringing back IT, even for cheap, won't be enough.

bob

.

What about Brown? Did you not list him because you think he will be traded?

Gyso,

I didn't include Brown because there is high interest in him around the league and Trader Danny is in "Let's Make A Deal" mode. He might be gone.

If Danny wouldn't give up Tatum for Davis, he'll be here.
If he didn't need to give up Smart to make the salaries work in a Davis deal, he wouldn't trade him neither.
Williams is a very low-cost, big-upside center, and we need centers.
Theis is another low-cost big, and we need bigs.

That explains why the players I specified.

bob

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by **NYCelt** Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:01 am

I think there is plenty to go on that makes it look like they drafted for depth.

Williams is small for a PF, but is an all-around skilled player. He played in a tough conference, and succeeded at both ends of the floor.

Edwards is instant offense, can shoot and drive, and is a good distributor.

Waters is an accomplished point. Good decision maker, good court vision, also a good distributor. Might be tough for him to stick, however. Like many teams, the Celtics just need to find and retain point guards.

To me the puzzling pick is Langford. Even if you're looking for depth. I know all about the thumb injury, so yes, his shot was off. Beyond that, however, he doesn't offer a lot. To me, he looked like a merely adequate defender. His passing wasn't great, but again, the thumb. The one thing that keeps getting repeated by Celtic staffers is that he was an exceptional high school player. You can probably say that about half of this board in one sport or another. Anyone here gone pro?

I can see the plan. Weak draft, build depth, raise cash, build in free agency on top of one of the most talented young core groups in the NBA. Got it. Clearly.

But a team at a make or break spot in their ability to contend, using the 14th pick on a player whose potential cannot be judged with any evidence beyond high school? So we're essentially back to drafting them right off the 18-year old graduation line?

If Ainge and crew are guilty of any misdeeds last night in my mind, there's just one. Extremely poor risk management. Shockingly poor, I think.

My wager, if you will, is that this will become Ainge's make-or-break moment. Forget big things from any draftee. None were picked to lead the team. Langford, however, looks to be like Ainge's Heaven or Hell. Solid sub, the risk pays off. Flop? No GM lasts forever. No successful FA bigs (successful, NOT All-Stars), and a Langford flop? My guess is Danny experiences his last season in Boston.

Bottom line: Deep playoff run with yet-to-be-acquired FA bigs and a nice off-the-bench effort by Langford or new regime. NBA owners give their top execs just so much time.

by **KyleCleric** Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:15 am

We do need the wing depth on this team. If Smart plays PG minutes and we’re using a lot of 3 wing alignments, there’ll be plenty of minutes for him to earn. The spot up shooting and passing are question marks. He is though a scorer and a solid multi-positional defensive player. We can use those attributes now. There’s a lot of potential there for more than that in the future especially if he answers the questions about his shooting.

by **gyso** Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:41 pm

bobheckler wrote:
gyso wrote:
bobheckler wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if the only players left from last year's team come September are Tatum, Smart, Williams and maybe Theis. There might not have been anything he could do about Horford (rumors are $25M/year, 4 years. For a 33 year old) and Kyrie is Kyrie, but trading the very affordable and effective Baynes strips our front court down to bare metal with a raw Time Lord and an under-sized Theis. Clearly he is creating cap space but for whom? Weneed a starting center AND a proven scorer. Bringing back IT, even for cheap, won't be enough.

bob

.

What about Brown? Did you not list him because you think he will be traded?

Gyso,

I didn't include Brown because there is high interest in him around the league and Trader Danny is in "Let's Make A Deal" mode. He might be gone.

If Danny wouldn't give up Tatum for Davis, he'll be here.
If he didn't need to give up Smart to make the salaries work in a Davis deal, he wouldn't trade him neither.
Williams is a very low-cost, big-upside center, and we need centers.
Theis is another low-cost big, and we need bigs.

That explains why the players I specified.

bob

.

Bob,

That's pretty much what I thought you meant, but I didn't want to assume. IF Brown gets traded, it better be for top 10 - 15 talent with two or more seasons left on his contract. Oh yeah, it also better be for a quality big, modern type preferred.

A salary dump transaction with Brown traded away as incentive is right out of the question.

Our top needs are starters at the 4 and 5. We have Theis and Timelord to come off the bench at those two positions. I hope Robert Williams is ready. I think we can fill our top two needs by signing free agents, one with cap space and one with the MLE. I don't have anyone in mind, I just believe there is a large enough pool of free agents available this year (or maybe look at European players?) that Danny can fill these needs.

gyso

by **dboss** Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:29 pm

This was a horrible draft...horrible, incoherent, pathetic and downright stupid.

Danny Ainge is a moron when it comes to drafting and I have lost all confidence in his ability to configure a team based on team needs.

Langford was a reach at 14. He is a questionable shooter 27% (I don't give a damn about what he shot in H.S.) and he is not a highend athlete.. This one looks like another one of Brad Stevens' love child stories. It serves to add more issues to a congested guard rotation where getting minutes at the SG has already proven to be a major source of chemistry issues. If for some strange reason you feel the need to use your first pick on a shooting guard, have the goddamn decency to get a shooting guard. Nickeil Alexander-Walker was still on the board, idiot.

Grant Williams further replicates this insane desire by Danny to have a team of 6'7"- 6'8" make believe power forwards. I know for a fact and you know for a fact that undersized Power Forwards are problematic because we cannot matchup with big teams. He shot 32% from deep, plays below the rim and lacks lateral quickness. There was too much talent on the board to make this selection.

Carson Edwards is a 6 ft SG in a PG body. PG is a definite area of need so we go get a guy who averaged 2.5 assists per game and 1.9 TOV in 3 years at Purdue. If you need a PG at he very least get a guy who can run an offense. He took 10.6 3 point shots per game last year. That's over the top.

Tremont Walters was the last selection and at 5 '11" he is a midget PG and another unproven shooter.

All 4 picks have bust written all over them. Not one of the picks scratches a need. Each and everyone of them are flawed for the position they play. No length and no help for our glaring needs in the front line. Not one of those picks will help Boston be a better team.

Aron Baynes has been traded to free up CAP space. Aron was happy to opt in to stay with Boston but that low down dirty slivering snake of a man Danny Ainge needs CAP space. So go ahead Danny, keep going down this road right to the door that leads to oblivion.

by **gyso** Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:55 pm

Baynes asked for the trade, once he read the tea leaves.

Just saying.

Very Happy

by **cowens/oldschool** Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:37 am

Dboss why are you so enamoured with Nickeil Alexander Walker?

He seems less athletic and weaker in traffic than Langford.

by **dboss** Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:18 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:Dboss why are you so enamoured with Nickeil Alexander Walker?

He seems less athletic and weaker in traffic than Langford.

Cow I am not enamored with him however he is a SG that went 38.3% from deep in his 2 years at V-Tech. He averaged 16.2 PPG.

I am not buying the 27.2% from Romeo. I'm not buying it.

This whole thing is utterly absurd to me.

Drafting a SG that is unproven as a SHOOTER with the first pick, given all that Boston is set to lose (Starting PG, C and PF and BU C) is negligent on every level. Are we losing a shooting guard? Hell no!

by **cowens/oldschool** Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:57 am

dboss wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:Dboss why are you so enamoured with Nickeil Alexander Walker?

He seems less athletic and weaker in traffic than Langford.

Cow I am not enamored with him however he is a SG that went 38.3% from deep in his 2 years at V-Tech. He averaged 16.2 PPG.

I am not buying the 27.2% from Romeo. I'm not buying it.

This whole thing is utterly absurd to me.

Drafting a SG that is unproven as a SHOOTER with the first pick, given all that Boston is set to lose (Starting PG, C and PF and BU C) is negligent on every level. Are we losing a shooting guard? Hell no!

We’ll have to see how it plays out, Romeo is more dynamic and can create his own shot better, he weighs more than Jayson Tatum, I don’t mind another athlete, I’m banking on his shooting coming around.

by **dboss** Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:21 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:
dboss wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:Dboss why are you so enamoured with Nickeil Alexander Walker?

He seems less athletic and weaker in traffic than Langford.

Cow I am not enamored with him however he is a SG that went 38.3% from deep in his 2 years at V-Tech. He averaged 16.2 PPG.

I am not buying the 27.2% from Romeo. I'm not buying it.

This whole thing is utterly absurd to me.

Drafting a SG that is unproven as a SHOOTER with the first pick, given all that Boston is set to lose (Starting PG, C and PF and BU C) is negligent on every level. Are we losing a shooting guard? Hell no!

We’ll have to see how it plays out, Romeo is more dynamic and can create his own shot better, he weighs more than Jayson Tatum, I don’t mind another athlete, I’m banking on his shooting coming around.

Cow

It is not about Romeo or Walker.

It is about going into a draft with 3 first round selections and coming out of it with not a single player that can be plugged into the holes left by Irving, Horford and Baynes and likely Morris and Rozier.

Boston needed to at least begin the process of getting bigger, stronger and more ferocious and instead they come away with another tweener.

I suppose my board members are making a strong effort to be reasonable.

I cannot find any rhyme or reason in this draft.

by **swish** Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:22 pm

I'll be sure to save this post (and others about draft selections ) so that in future years we can evaluate Danny's picks vs those of the practicing GM'S on this board.

swish

by **worcester** Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:31 pm

Swish, I think Danny is going your route, signing FA vets instead of depending on the draft this yer to rebuild. Let's hope he is right.

by **cowens/oldschool** Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:43 am

He’s doing both, all teams draft, trade and sign FA’s....

by **mikeod** Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:32 am

Tweener. Where have I heard that before? Oh. Yes, that was the rap on the kid from San Diego State. Kid named Leonard. Now, not saying any of the picks will or have the potential to turn out so good, but sometimes you just don’t know how a young kid will mature and grow. Just like some of the sure things, flame out in the pros. Maybe they all become pieces in a trade set up before the draft for a FA. Danny apparently has something in the works, or already finalized.

by **bobheckler** Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:53 am

mikeod wrote:Tweener. Where have I heard that before? Oh. Yes, that was the rap on the kid from San Diego State. Kid named Leonard. Now, not saying any of the picks will or have the potential to turn out so good, but sometimes you just don’t know how a young kid will mature and grow. Just like some of the sure things, flame out in the pros. Maybe they all become pieces in a trade set up before the draft for a FA. Danny apparently has something in the works, or already finalized.

Mike,

And I've always had a blind spot when it comes to tweeners. Kelly Tripuka, Corliss Williamson, Adrian Dantley, Mark Aguirre and Chris Mullins. I never saw them coming until they were already here.

bob

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by **dboss** Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:32 pm

bobheckler wrote:
mikeod wrote:Tweener. Where have I heard that before? Oh. Yes, that was the rap on the kid from San Diego State. Kid named Leonard. Now, not saying any of the picks will or have the potential to turn out so good, but sometimes you just don’t know how a young kid will mature and grow. Just like some of the sure things, flame out in the pros. Maybe they all become pieces in a trade set up before the draft for a FA. Danny apparently has something in the works, or already finalized.

Mike,

And I've always had a blind spot when it comes to tweeners. Kelly Tripuka, Corliss Williamson, Adrian Dantley, Mark Aguirre and Chris Mullins. I never saw them coming until they were already here.

bob

Bob I am not sure that I agree with your list of 5 players that you consider tweeners. I guess I need to say what I think a tweener is. I think of a player whose height is below the average at a particular position relative to most players that also play the same position. There are physical attributes that can help to compensate for a person's height. For example wingspan or girth.

On your list there are two players that I think fall into the tweener category based on the position they played. They include Corliss Williamson who played mostly PF at 6' 7" and Adrian Dantley who played SF at 6' 5" I would not classify the other players as tweeners. Tripuka was a 6' 6" SF. Chris Mullins was a 6'7" SG/SF and Mark Aquirre was a 6' 6" SF.

Boston has too many PF tweeners like Semi, Morris, Theis, Yabuselle and they also Tatum and GH both 6' 8" guys at PF. Morris is pretty solid but still undersized at PF. So Boston has 6 players that will man the 4 spot and all of them are tweeners. All of them are undersized to effectively play that position at both ends of the court. Their new PF tweener at 6'7 1/2 adds to the inadequacy of a front line that is just too small.

Considering that I have been hammering away on this issue for a long time, my puzzlement on how this team has been configured will continue.

Of course now that we have a 7' 7" center the averages can increase, at least on paper. lol

by **atcross** Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:57 pm

I notice that most seem to assume Morris is gone. I don't follow these things the way some of you do but I gather that is because he will be too expensive in FA. I guess my question is if we can't afford him and need the cap, who can we replace him with that is just as good or better, and costs less. Morris impressed me last year. Or is it that we just don't want a long term, high end contract on the books when we have to pay Tatum and Brown? What's the expert opinion?

by **mikeod** Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:18 pm

I hope Morris is resigned. I, too, was impressed by his play last year. Again, I think a lot of players on the team were not happy with KI’s need to have the ball in his hands so much of the time, resulting in them seizing any opportunity to shoot. If what we are reading about KI and Stevens disagreeing about the scheme is at all true, it explains a lot of the locker turmoil.

Re: players all about the same height. Doesn’t that fit with positionless basketball? Isn’t that a hallmark of Steven’s teams? IDK. Truthfully, I’m also a little bewildered about what’s been going on. Baynes, to me was a prototypical Celtic. Not flashy, just a workmanlike effort every game. There was a noticeable drop off in wins when he was out. Was it him, or just the loss of size/bulk in the front court?

by **cowens/oldschool** Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:23 pm

I think Grant Williams is gonna surprise us with his versatility, been seeing a lot of video, besides having an old school game, he’s got a very crafty mid range game with soft hands and good shooting touch.

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