Post-game Thread: Celtics @ Mavericks, 11/08/2010

[Sam]

I haven't seen the game (will do so tomorrow), but here's a post-game thread for your pleasure.

Sam

[tjmakz]

I know this video has nothing to do with last night's game but I didn't know where to post it. Pretty funny stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvTKhe5D72E&feature=watch_response

[112288]

Hard fought game. Big problem the C's had was losing JO with knee problem in the second half. Forced Erdin to play more minutes. He did a good job but veteran leadership was needed.

Hey, the team looked good and can turn it on when they want. If they can get one more 3 pt shooter with size like Rudy Fernandez from Portland would go a long way to making them pure deadly.

2 day's rest will help and they should be ready for the FAKE 3. HOPE SHAQ is back!

112288

[sinus007]

Hi,
I could watch only the second half of Q4. All Celtics starters looked tired. RA was a non-factor. Dirk was going by KG at will. BBD was able to contain him but the height diff. allowed Dirk to shoot over BBD.
One thing I can't understand is how Celtics managed to get only 5 FTs (I don't count 2 technicals)? In 48 minutes with such physical players as Dirk, Chandler?
Oh well... It was a tough game, back-to-back on the road.

AK

[112288]

One thing the Celtic's could have done better in the first half was to attack the paint more. They went into a shell for a good part of first half shooting jumpers from the outside. Again, back to back, I guess the players were looking to make it a half a game (second half) vs. a full game. Baby was assigned Dirk and his height killed Baby. I probably would have switched KG and put him on Dirk.

Bottom line is you can see the Mojo growing. Get Shaq, West and JO'Neil back and this team becomes a power house. Rondo is getting way too much time on the floor and given his foot problem will not help him in a long season...look to West to help solve the minutes problem next week.

Would like Doc to give Luke Harangody some minutes. He is tough and he can score.

112288

[Outside]

I know this video has nothing to do with last night's game but I didn't know where to post it. Pretty funny stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvTKhe5D72E&feature=watch_response

Thanks, TJ. That guy was a hoot.

[Outside]

I didn't see the game, but I'll make a couple of observations anyway.

Barely losing to a quality opponent on the road in the second game of a back-to-back with a rookie and a vertically-challenged power forward splitting the center duties... I doubt that Doc considers this anything other than an "L," but it sounds like a quality effort from a championship contender to me.

And regarding the center spot, this is why Erden had to be on the roster. Both O'Neals are going to miss games during the season, and there's likely to be times like this when both are out at the same time. The C's could make do with Garnett and Davis, but that's a lot of pressure to play heavy minutes for KG -- not good. Having Erden is the difference between KG playing 38 minutes last night vs. 44. Over the course of the season, that's huge. As with last season, a key for this team is being healthy for the playoffs, and Erden playing 12-18 minutes in games like this can help that cause.

Outside

[112288]

Outside,

You are on the right path.

112288

[LACELTFAN]

I believe it's hard to tell how much of a powerhouse this team will be down the road until all the pieces are assembled and functioning together but the upside looks quite promising.

[tjmakz]

I will be the first here to say that I think Boston should waive Von Wafer and pick up another big man, like Eric Dampier or Earl Barron. Wafer is not in the regular rotation now, so how much time will he get when West starts playing? Probably none. Wafer is on a non-guaranteed contract so he is basically getting paid by the game.
Shaq and JO can and should be effective when they play, but they miss so much time that they are getting hard to count on.
In 4 of the last 6 years JO has missed 30 or more games and in 4 of the last 5 years Shaq has missed 20 or more games in a season.
Boston can't expect they will be healthy and even if they are, they need to limit them so they are still on the court throughout the playoffs.

[112288]

The Shaq issue was he missed almost half the season last year when Big Baby broke his thumb and had to have it operated on. I take that time lost out of the equation.

112288

[tjmakz]

Boston can always wait until it is closer to the trade deadline, but they are putting so much effort into winning each game (Rondo/PP/Garnett/RA's minutes played), I don't they should wait and possibly lose 3 or 4 more games then they have to because they weren't deep enough at Center.

Yes, Boston could win it all if they only won 55 games (not saying they will) but they should keep fighting for homecourt advantage. A BBD/Erden center combo will probably not get it done. Plus, BBD needs to take minutes from KG.

[Sam]

TJ,

Dampier was signed by Houston. Several teams are said to have interest in Barron, who would be a very interesting pickup by the Celtics. During his 10-day contract with the Knicks last season, he scored 17 points with 18 rebounds against Perk and KG. I agree that, probably for several reasons (including his apparent non-acceptance by the veterans of the team), Wafer does not seem destined to help the Celtics.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=17808

Sam

[mulcogiseng]

First game I wasn't able to see this year, guess there is more to come, unfortunately. lol
Sure seems like some of the problems this team faces will be solved by a healthy DWest. No, I'm not buying into the fear factor on him. He is what he is and what he will be.
I like Semih's play. Sure seems like he will get more minutes this year than Bradley.
It's early but already the most pressing concern for me is when they play with lack of pace. Tommy beats this one to death and he is so right.
Looking forward to watching the game on Thursday.

[dboss]

Saw the first half and made the classic mistake of falling asleep.

Woke up for the post game show.

Most of the stats in this game favored the Celtics.

They put up more shots 91-66
More rebounds 42-38
Less turnovers 12-17
More fast break points 18-11
More Points in the paint 38-32

But the two critical stats were shooting percentage Mavs 50% - Celts 41%
and free throw 7-7 for Boston and 17-20 for the Mavs

Thought the baby/dirk matchup made no sense.

SE played well again

Overall Celtics defense was poor. Without depth at the big the Celtics could really struggle. Shaq and JON are hazards, Looking forward to perk's return. we need a stable starting 5.

Too many shots for Rondo last night 5-15

baby is in charge of taking a charge

Wafer seems disconnected....Celtics should have kept Lasme or kept roster spot vacant.

back to back games require a deep and productive Bench.

The heat will be on in 2 days.

dboss

[tjmakz]

TJ,

Dampier was signed by Houston. Several teams are said to have interest in Barron, who would be a very interesting pickup by the Celtics. During his 10-day contract with the Knicks last season, he scored 17 points with 18 rebounds against Perk and KG. I agree that, probably for several reasons (including his apparent non-acceptance by the veterans of the team), Wafer does not seem destined to help the Celtics.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=17808

Sam

Sam,

Dampier never did sign with Houston. He wants to play with a contender and it doesn't look like Houston will be a contender especially with Brooks going down for 4-6 weeks. Houston could be virtually out of playoff contention by the time Brooks gets back.
Dampier and Barron will be signed by someone so that is why I don't think Boston should wait until the trade deadline.
There are plenty of PF's with bad or somewhat bad contracts that could be had before the trade deadline, but very few centers fit that criteria.

[NYCelt]

Really only one takeaway from last night's game others have already hit on here.

We need a big who can do two things; 1. Stay on the court & 2. Rebound.

Who and how are the questions.

[Outside]

Dampier never did sign with Houston. He wants to play with a contender and it doesn't look like Houston will be a contender especially with Brooks going down for 4-6 weeks. Houston could be virtually out of playoff contention by the time Brooks gets back.
Dampier and Barron will be signed by someone so that is why I don't think Boston should wait until the trade deadline.
There are plenty of PF's with bad or somewhat bad contracts that could be had before the trade deadline, but very few centers fit that criteria.

Gee, I thought I followed the NBA well enough, but I must've missed this -- when did Erick Dampier become such a valued commodity that he can turn down offers except from what he deems championship contenders?

Boston doesn't need to make any rushed signings. They have a solid roster that could win the championship, as is. If they sign another center, what happens come March and April when they have five centers on the roster (Shaq, JON, Erden, Perk, Dampierwhatever)? My guess is that, barring a season-ending injury to Shaq, JON, or Erden, they'll stick with what they have at the 5.

[willjr]

I agree with TJ, Wafer is just taking up space and even though I like everything that I've seen from Erden I would not be against the idea of him losing playing time and experience to a veteran big. If the Celtic philosophy is to win now then why not grab Dampier or Barron to cover for the obvious limitations (minutes/games played) of the O'neals. Semih has shown that he can play effectively at this level but (I fear) that the Brass Ring we are reaching for is so close due to our talent and experience yet so far due to our age and mileage. I may be in the minority but I really don't expect much more than a full complement of fouls and less than that number of points and rebounds out of Perk if and when he returns.

[RosalieTCeltics]

As soon as West comes back and is settled into the second team rotation, Wafer is gone. I really wish we had kept Lasme instead of Wafer coming into
the season. Does anyone know where Lasme ended up? The vets on the
team were a little upset when he got cut, he has more up side than Wafer.
It is that lazy attitude that I just can't stand watching Wafer. Time will tell,
not much will go by Danny.

[jeb]

We are 6 and 2 without shaq or west. Pretty good. As to having to work to win games...the lakes did that all last year and it worked out in a ring.

I dont think we are playing all that well yet and we are winning a lot of games.

I think this team is going to be really deep and long and scary.

Lakers looking awful good out west.

Jeb

[Sam]

TJ,

I just saw an article that Dampier had signed. Surprised that he didn't. I won't be at all shocked if Wafer is just insurance and a practice player until West returns. And I wouldn't be shocked if they signed a big as additional insurance. I don't know anything about Barron's defense and very little about Dampier's. I would guess any move they might make would be with defense very prominently in mind. Their relative defensive abilities being equal, it would be an interesting choice between Dampier's experience and possible brittleness and Barron's youth and long-term upside.

As for what to do with five centers if and when Perk returns and if and when he's effective (we shouldn't make any huge assumptions), my solution would be to send Erden to the DL and have him ride the shuttle whenever any of the other four centers is hurt. I don't know whether there's any limit on the number of times in a season that a given player can be sent to the DL.

Sam

[gyso]

TJ,

I just saw an article that Dampier had signed. Surprised that he didn't. I won't be at all shocked if Wafer is just insurance and a practice player until West returns. And I wouldn't be shocked if they signed a big as additional insurance. I don't know anything about Barron's defense and very little about Dampier's. I would guess any move they might make would be with defense very prominently in mind. Their relative defensive abilities being equal, it would be an interesting choice between Dampier's experience and possible brittleness and Barron's youth and long-term upside.

As for what to do with five centers if and when Perk returns and if and when he's effective (we shouldn't make any huge assumptions), my solution would be to send Erden to the DL and have him ride the shuttle whenever any of the other four centers is hurt. I don't know whether there's any limit on the number of times in a season that a given player can be sent to the DL.

Sam

A player can be sent to the DL three times.

I don't see them making any moves until late December UNLESS either O'Neal is injured enough to be deemed out for the year. Wafer may get released when Delonte gets back but I doubt that either.

None of the pieces we would want to trade can be traded until late next month, free agent signing rules and all.

I would rather keep Erden with the big club rather than sign either Dampier or Barron. Erden has already shown me more than I expected and given time, who knows his ceiling?

[dboss]

Wafer will not be cut at least not until his contract is about to be guaranteed for the year.

West coming back has no impact in my mind about keeping Wafer. DA got Wafer because he wanted to add another shooter but Wafer is not really getting a lot of rotation minutes so in all fairness we should temper our criticism of him.

Rosie I'm with you. I really liked the kid Lasme and thought he added that 3rd layer of depth behind PP and Daniels. I think he could have been a defensive stopper for the club at times when having one in the game could be a difference maker.

Erden has already proven that he is no D league player and he is really starting to pick up the offense and the defensive sets. He's a keeper even if the Oneals and Perk are all heathy and playing. That of course is not the case right now so Semi's value is on the rise each game.

dboss

[sinus007]

Hi,
Re VW.
I think one of the reasons DA left him was that DA saw more trading value in him than in Lasme.
Unfortunately he doesn't look good. The argument that he's not getting much PT is kind of lame. Look at LH, he's got what 2-3 min total and showed some sparks. I don't know, maybe VW is one of those players that need a lot of PT to get them going. But with current Celtics roster it's not going to happen.

Re SE.
I like him a lot. I think it'd be a mistake to send him to Maine. As others noted, he can play in the NBA. Another point in his favor is he can shoot FT (9-9 so far) - no other Celtics C is even close, and, I'm pretty sure, he can shoot from mid range. What's more important, he's willing and able to learn and not afraid to get down dirty.

AK

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