Celtics ‘Can’t Afford’ to Gamble on Losing Jaylen Brown, Grant Williams: NBA Execs

https://heavy.com/sports/boston-celtics/jaylen-brown-grant-williams-nba/



Celtics ‘Can’t Afford’ to Gamble on Losing Jaylen Brown, Grant Williams: NBA Execs


By Steve Bulpett
Updated Jun 3, 2023 at 9:54pm



Even as they try to properly diagnose the cause of their elimination, the Boston Celtics must decide on the elements that will define the course of treatment.

Will surgery be necessary, or will rest and a few tweaks reduce their roundball inflammation?

It’s a given that Joe Mazzulla will have the benefit of a more complete coaching staff and the time to formulate a cohesive approach to HIS program — rather than writing in the margins on pages prepared by Ime Udoka.


The most pressing decisions involve a possible supermax contract extension for Jaylen Brown and working through Grant Williams‘ restricted free agency. League executives tell Heavy Sports it is fully expected the Celts, not wishing to engage in a game of roster Jenga, will find a way to retain both. Then again, the players will have a major say in this, as well.

“I hear fans up there are debating whether to give Brown the supermax (five years, $290 million), but at some point the numbers don’t really matter,” said one general manager. “First of all, the guy is one of the better players in the league. Start there. I know people are all upset about his last game (19 points, 1-9 on 3-pointers, eight turnovers), and sure he was bad, but that was a team-wide collapse. Just take a step back and look at where he is and what he can do. The guy can play.


“But the main reason why everyone out here knows they have to get something done with him is that you can never afford to lose an asset like that. … Even if you sign him and things don’t work out with your team down the line, you have a player of value. All-Star players can attract free agents who want to play with them, or you can use your player as an asset in a trade.”


‘You Don’t Let Talent Walk’

And Brown, he said, would be worth a lot more under a long-term contract than if he doesn’t sign an extension and chooses to play out the final year of his present deal.

“From everything I’ve heard and I know, Boston wants Brown,” the GM said. “They see him as a big part of their future. But if things get messed up there — major injuries or things like that — you have to have the ability to make trades.


“Bottom line: you don’t let talent walk or get devalued.”

Another league exec said it was reasonable to wonder about the effect on roster flexibility if both Brown and Jayson Tatum, eligible a year after, are on supermax contracts, “but you have to wait to cross that bridge. The rules are going to change to make some moves harder, but as long as those two guys can play at a high level, they’ll always be worth the money as players or assets.”


Other Teams Could Force Celtics to Overpay Grant Williams

The Grant Williams situation will be perhaps more interesting, if less impactful, this summer, because other teams will be able to be involved through an offer sheet. The Celtics would have the ability to match anything he gets, or things could get worked out between the sides before he seriously looks elsewhere.


The matter gained even more uncertainty when Williams was out of the rotation for some postseason games. But that’s clearly not expected to diminish his value on the market.

The Celtics would appear to have enough players who want/need the ball, with complementary types at a premium.


Taking in the bigger picture, one opposing coach told Heavy Sports, “I think when you look around, if you watch AAU, all these kids grow up with the ball in their hands. What happened to the guys who will continue to defend even if you don’t call a play for them or they don’t touch the ball for two or three minutes — the guys who really promote winning?

“Those kind of guys are getting harder to find these days. But guys who figure that out, they can have a really long career. The kid in Boston isn’t bad at it, the other Williams, Grant. They ain’t calling any plays for Grant Williams. He’s ready to knock it down when they swing it to him, and he defends and rebounds. Finding those guys is becoming harder and harder.”


The ball is now in Williams’ hands.

“I’m not the only one waiting to see how he approaches this,” said a league exec. “He may look at those (five) DNPs in the playoffs and wonder about his future in Boston. Does he try to get an offer sheet structured to make it hard for Boston to match? I know there are teams that will be interested in helping that along.

“All I know is that he filled a number of different roles for them, and other teams are seeing the same thing. It’s going to be interesting to see how Boston deals with him, because it might say a lot about what they think they need to do to get past a playoff loss that never should have happened.”


Bob
MY NOTE: I think we need to sign both these guys. That doesn't mean there are untradeable, but you want that to be the club's call. We lost Kyrie for nothing. We can argue we're happier without him but his departure put us into a panic mode that would bring us Kemba, a player whose shelf-life was past due. We got a TPE for Hayward, which turned into Fournier, which in turn was spun into another TPE when he went to NY. In other words, after losing Kyrie for nothing we made sure we got something in return. That should happen here. Sign these guys and either keep them or trade them but get something for them.

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The rhetoric needs to slow down a bit on Jaylen. Two or three weeks before that debacle series with Miami, everyone was ready to hang the NBA if they did not make this guy all NBA. Now the world is coming down on him as if it was all his fault. Sure, he had a big hand in this mess, but please, stop bashing this guy. Who knows, he may want out . if he does I certainly hope he would not pull a Kyrie and walk after next year. I just do not see that happening. Grant, on the other hand, there are some crazy numbers rolling around out there about him. After what took place this year, he definitely may want to be traded himself. Or, get an offer so high that the Celtics will never match it. I just cannot see that happening. I have an opinion about Grant. I believe he talked his way out of the lineup. Not only on the floor but off. I think Mazzula had just had it with him, not that that was a legit reason to not play him when he was needed in the playoffs. But If you think back, all of this started happening when he found himself being the mouthpiece for the team. Arguing with the ref's constantly, on and off the bench. I have to wonder....really, if this kid just has too high an estimation of his value and role

I agree that we need to sign both of these players and stop worrying about what that would mean 2-3 years down the line. The two events are not connected at this time. There is no other way to add players with their skillsets with the exceptions at our disposal.

Like BobH said, we can always trade them later when the CBA allows, to reduce salary or bring in that magical big or whatever.

We are contending now, not rebuilding, and both of these players produce on both ends of the floor, in the playoffs.

We may never know why Grant sat out so much at the end of the season and going into the playoffs. Maybe it was a Hauser experiment gone wrong, maybe he was in the dog house. Either way, it didn't help us at all when it counted.

I expect they will not make the same mistake twice.

Jaylen had one bad game and a great season. Keep him.

Grant's mouth cost him and us. He is definitely better than Hauser, but with the difference in salaries, Sam may stay and Grant may go if he costs too much.

Grant averaged 45.1 FG%, 37.9% from 3, 77.3% from the foul line, and 8.1 ppg

Sam averaged 45.5% FG, 41.8% from 3, 70.6% from the line and 6.4 ppg

For sure the celts keep Jaylen whatever the cost, and Grant too (for the right price).

There is no question about the value of Jaylen Brown that I can see.

But then, nothing would surprise me.

After all, we used to have a center, Al Jefferson, that everyone knew we couldn’t part with. He was becoming the first top level center we had in forever, and everyone was certain letting Jefferson get away would mean we would have to play that bench level at best, non-athletic backup Kendrick Perkins at center. That would be no way to win a title, no matter who you brought in.

Excellent point NY Celt, but I don't see Jaylen's backup taking us to #18. And who is Jaylen's backup, anywho?

worcester wrote:Excellent point NY Celt, but I don't see Jaylen's backup taking us to #18. And who is Jaylen's backup, anywho?

Depending on the starting lineup and subsequent rotation for a given game, it is often either some guy named White or another guy who goes by the name of Brogdon. But they’re probably like Perk was, with no way they can make steady contributions. Even if you were able to make some deal to bring in an All-Star type Center or Forward, you really can’t expect to win with one of those two in your starting lineup.

But white and Brogdon are often on the court with JB already. I could see them filling in for Jaylen if we traded him for Jokic or the Brow. But othereuse I would prefer to keep him.

worcester wrote:But white and Brogdon are often on the court with JB already. I could see them filling in for Jaylen if we traded him for Jokic or the Brow. But othereuse I would prefer to keep him.

W -

No argument.

I'm just stating that I could see them shuffling the lineup and I do think it's needed. I don't think this team can win a title as it's presently built without at least a couple of bigs to execute an inside game. RWIII is too brittle and Al is a warrior playing on borrowed time. It wouldn't surprise me to see Jaylen go because you can't bring in an accomplished forward without giving something of value in return. You could replace Brown in the lineup with a White or Brogdon if you had that forward and have better balance. I'm not starting a campaign headquartered in downtown Boston to ditch Brown, I'm just saying it is one path forward to get where we need to go.

Conversely, I wouldn't be surprised to see one of either White or Brogdon shipped out and possibly packaged with Pritchard, Grant and maybe even Danilo. We really have no draft picks this year high enough to include to sweeten the pot. The twin specters of a weak frontcourt and quickly approaching CBA changes make it a must to do something significant in my opinion.

I think that old saying about the definition of insanity, doing the same thing and expecting a different result, applies to this team.

Sensible. We do need that big. Have needed him for a decade.

https://heavy.com/sports/boston-celtics/jaylen-brown-isiah-thomas-supermax/



Exclusive: Celtics Star Jaylen Brown’s HOF Mentor Isiah Thomas Has Blunt Supermax Advice


By Steve Bulpett
Updated Jun 6, 2023 at 1:52pm



Isiah Thomas hasn’t spoken to Jaylen Brown since the Celtics were eliminated from the playoffs. But the Piston legend, a mentor to Brown from their ties to Cal, has prepared the advice he will give when next they chat.

“Take the money,” Thomas told Heavy Sports through a laugh.

Brown still has a year left on his Boston contract, but because of his second team All-NBA selection, he is eligible to sign a supermax extension of five years and some $290 million this summer.


“Take the money,” Thomas repeated.

But, to the Hall of Famer, it’s about more than a simple transaction. It’s dollars and sense.


Thomas Nudged Danny Ainge to Draft Jaylen Brown

Prior to the 2016 draft, Thomas encouraged Danny Ainge to draft Brown at No. 3 when the 6-foot-6 swingman generally wasn’t projected that high.

When Brown was taken after Ben Simmons and Brandon Ingram on that June night, Thomas texted me: “Love that he’s with the C’s”.


Later that evening when we spoke, Isiah said, “When I got to know Jaylen Brown and how he played, I said to him — and this is before the draft process started — I said to him, ‘You’re a Celtic.’ He fits the Celtic culture that I played against, that I competed against. That I know.”

According to Thomas, Brown still very much fits with Boston and the Celtics “intellectually and spiritually.”


“Yeah, he’s been great there,” Thomas told Heavy. “He’s had a great career there, and he’s become one of the best players in the league. They’ve done well, and he’s done well there. It’s been a win-win, I think, for him and for the Celtics.”


While the memories of Brown’s eight turnovers in the Celtics’ collective crumble in Game 7 against Miami linger, Thomas can refer to Jaylen’s career-highs of 26.6 points on 49% shooting this season.


As for the Celts’ fall from grace, losing as a No. 2 seed to the eighth-seeded Heat, Thomas took a wider view.

“Hey, I don’t care how talented your team is, when half of your coaching staff walks out of the door, that’s going to affect you,” he said. “That’s just how it goes. You lose your head coach and your top two assistants, you’re going to be impacted by that.

“You take any team in the NBA and you take the head coach and the top two assistants off the team, one at the start of the season, one (in the offseason) and then one in the middle of the season, it’s going to impact you. When you lose that from the bench, that affects you.”

When it was suggested that the Celtics had failed in other years, as well, to maintain their mental toughness and focus, Thomas said, “Well, that’s where coaching comes in, you know? Coaching helps.”


Thomas Understands Mental Hurdle

But then came the counter: You never needed Daddy Rich (aka former Pistons coach Chuck Daly) to give you nuggets, did you, Zeke?

“Oh, yes I did,” Thomas said. “Hey, Daddy Rich, all the times he had been in the Boston Garden losing with the Philadelphia 76ers as an assistant coach, then them coming back and finally winning, his storytelling was important to us, in terms of, you know, ‘You’ve got to keep plugging away.’ He talked about Dr. J and those guys. So, yeah, coaching helps. That storytelling helps.”


The Celtics have now been to the conference finals five times and to the NBA Finals once in Jaylen Brown’s seven seasons. Thomas can relate to a team taking years to break through, though his situation with the 1980s Pistons had a more singular obstacle.

“It was different for us, because the Celtics — that Celtics team — is one of the top three or four teams to ever play the game of basketball,” he said. “So our trying to get through them is totally different than these teams trying to get through what they’re going through. Our mental hurdle, in my opinion, was much tougher.

“But trying to win a championship at the NBA level for a professional basketball player, there’s no tougher thing that you’ll try to do in your life.”


And Thomas will be happy for Brown and the Celtics if they get there. That may seem odd for a Piston to say, considering the depth of that decades-old rivalry.

But as Thomas said on the night Brown was drafted when asked about aiding the enemy, “It doesn’t feel weird for me. Because, like I’ve told you before, the Celtics were our mentors. They were our teachers. They were the masters of the game. So we as pupils, even though we grew up and we beat them, they’re still the masters.”


Bob


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NYCelt wrote:

worcester wrote:But white and Brogdon are often on the court with JB already. I could see them filling in for Jaylen if we traded him for Jokic or the Brow. But othereuse I would prefer to keep him.

W -

No argument.

I'm just stating that I could see them shuffling the lineup and I do think it's needed. I don't think this team can win a title as it's presently built without at least a couple of bigs to execute an inside game. RWIII is too brittle and Al is a warrior playing on borrowed time. It wouldn't surprise me to see Jaylen go because you can't bring in an accomplished forward without giving something of value in return. You could replace Brown in the lineup with a White or Brogdon if you had that forward and have better balance. I'm not starting a campaign headquartered in downtown Boston to ditch Brown, I'm just saying it is one path forward to get where we need to go.

Conversely, I wouldn't be surprised to see one of either White or Brogdon shipped out and possibly packaged with Pritchard, Grant and maybe even Danilo. We really have no draft picks this year high enough to include to sweeten the pot. The twin specters of a weak frontcourt and quickly approaching CBA changes make it a must to do something significant in my opinion.

I think that old saying about the definition of insanity, doing the same thing and expecting a different result, applies to this team.

I agree with you regarding the bigs but I believe that White and/or Brogdon are more than capable starters on a championship team.
Ive been hearing that Malcolm may be shopped because of his $. I’d hate that. I really hope they both stay put.

Zeke is the best! I totally agree with all he has said here.

worcester wrote:Sensible. We do need that big. Have needed him for a decade.

We also had a lot of unique circumstances that prevented us from getting to Finals, health was a big issue. I don’t mind this team coming back with better coaching, experience and most importantly good health. Don’t see us acquiring say the Brow, KAT or Embid for Jaylen, let’s be real here. Pritch and Grant for a Naz Reid type is more realistic.

Cow, no way do we get or even want the Brow, KAT or Embid for JB. Embid and Brow are too frail. KAT? Meh.

cowens/oldschool wrote:

worcester wrote:Sensible. We do need that big. Have needed him for a decade.

We also had a lot of unique circumstances that prevented us from getting to Finals, health was a big issue. I don’t mind this team coming back with better coaching, experience and most importantly good health. Don’t see us acquiring say the Brow, KAT or Embid for Jaylen, let’s be real here. Pritch and Grant for a Naz Reid type is more realistic.

I would love to see us get Naz Reid. He's an unrestricted free agent, so June 30 starts open season. Lots of rumors circulating that the Wolves may be willing to part with KAT in order to retain Reid. They do have Reid's Bird Rights, but too much tied up in KAT, Gobert, and a couple other extensions coming up to sign him without lightening their obligations. I would consider moving Jaylen to get KAT, but would prefer to keep Brown and get Reid. Probably not happening though. GMs are all going to be looking at the potential upcoming cap crunch as they deal or sign FAs.

That's one reason KAT is on the rumor mill about players changing teams, along with Brown, Dame, Trae Young, Jalen Green, and a few others. Dame has said Miami is his preferred destination, over Boston, New York and Brooklyn, if a trade was offered. Lillard might be the most likely on that list to move.

worcester wrote:Cow, no way do we get or even want the Brow, KAT or Embid for JB. Embid and Brow are too frail. KAT? Meh.

Exactly, no way would we get an equal value big. Jaylen still has prime years ahead of him. I’ve heard these owners are billionaires….

A number of us have been wanting Naz Reid on this team. Added to Marcus, Derrick, Malcolm, Al, Rob, JB and JT we'd have a tough team to beat. With Kelly instead of Naz we'd tend more to the finesse side.

GRANT UNDERGOES SURGERY FOR TORN LIGAMENT


Boston Celtics forward Grant Williams underwent surgery to repair a torn ligament in his left hand, the team announced Friday. Here’s what you need to know:
* Williams will be out six to eight weeks and is expected to be fine by next season.
* This injury originally happened in March.
* Williams exacerbated the injury fighting for a rebound with Bam Adebayo in Game 6 of the Eastern Conference finals, league sources told The Athletic.

Backstory
The two-time All-Star (????????) had an MRI after the season to assess the ligament and doctors determined Tuesday he needed surgery, which will keep him off the court for six to eight weeks. Williams had surgery with Dr. Carlson at the Hospital for Special Surgery in New York, according to league sources.

Dr. Carlson also performed the surgery to repair Celtics guard Marcus Smart’s UCL tear in his thumb in 2018.
The Athletic’s instant analysis:
Significance of surgery
This is tough timing as he enters restricted free agency, but small surgeries for injuries like this are not uncommon for physical players of Williams’ nature after a long postseason. Williams also dealt with a ligament strain in his right elbow earlier in the season, but is expected to let that heal without any further procedures at this point, according to league sources. — Weiss
What this means for Williams’ future with the Celtics
Williams had an erratic role with the Celtics this year, but eventually worked his way back into the rotation for much of the Philadelphia and Miami series guarding Joel Embiid and Jimmy Butler last month. Since the Celtics are already deep in the luxury tax, it’s unclear whether they will match if Williams can secure a lucrative offer sheet from another team.
With Al Horford turning 37 and Rob Williams playing just 20.9 minutes per game in the playoffs this year, losing Grant Williams would be a tough blow to their current big depth. — Jared Weiss

Why do the C's seem to struggle drafting quality bigs?


KJ

k_j_88 wrote:Why do the C's seem to struggle drafting quality bigs?


KJ

The Celtics under Danny had a focus on guards/wings. With the exception of Al Jefferson, the Celtics have not drafted a scorer/rebounder

Sooner rather than later Brad will need to find a replacement for Al Horford. That is probably more likely to happen as a result of a trade.

But who knows. Maybe we will luck out and find a quality big man at #35 in this year's draft.

I wonder how much Jaylen's hand affected him

I am not looking to bail him out of some of the poor decisions he made in that Miami series, but I watched him alot when he was handling the ball. He had no grip on it alot of the times. Catching passes while driving to the basket, he made so many errors. I truly felt then and feel now, that it was a definite issue