POST GAME ATLANTA - GAME 2

Issues like this are quite generally affected by team bias. I would venture that Boston and Atlanta will be at odds on this issue.

swish

mrkleen09 wrote:This is where sports fans confuse me.

You want your star players to be aggressive, hard nosed, strong willed, finely tuned athletes who do everything to win and carry the load for their less talented teammates - yet you think that kind of talent, hard work, confidence should come with a dose of humility?

You cant have it both ways. The drive that makes Paul Pierce great is only possible because of a burning belief that he is better than his opponents. You cant burn that hot, for this long - without having a moment when the pot boils over.

So, you either have a guy like Brandon Bass - who is by all accounts a humble, sweetheart of a guy - who will be a career role player without the disposition to be a star. Or you have a star that is full of himself and because of that, is the man who carries your team for decades. You cant have both.

No players were more "aggressive, hard nosed, strong willed, finely tuned athletes who do everything to win and carry the load for their less talented teammates" than Russell and Hondo. And if you want to go to a later generation, throw in Bird, Dr. J, Magic, Michael Jordan, etc., or more recently Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Lebron or Derrick Rose. Ever see any of them show up their opponent with an act like what Pierce did? Much as I dislike Kobe and Lebron as opponents, I don't ever see them or the others I mentioned do anything out of the ordinary in terms of celebrating a big moment. That stuff is generally reserved for the lesser tier players (like Antoine's wiggle after hitting a three for example). Pierce should be above that.

steve3344 wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:steve

Look at all the emotion he just played with, you don't know what was in his head, who was he mocking? thats not mocking, its an athlete thanking the almighty for a blessed moment.

I respectively disagree. PP has never been an overtly religious person. Never ONCE in his entire career have I seen him on camera thanking "the Lord" or Jesus Christ or any other spirit for his performance (and that's refreshing because it gets TIRED). To do it now in his 14th season for the first time, after all the Tebow hoopla, when that is not his history is mocking.

even if he did copy Tebow, where is he mocking anybody? hes not making any gestures at any fans like TO attempted to do in Dallas, its just a moment of his own personal refection, all players have done other stuff celebrating great moments in whatever way they want.....he was thankful at that moment.

mrkleen09 wrote:This is where sports fans confuse me.

You want your star players to be aggressive, hard nosed, strong willed, finely tuned athletes who do everything to win and carry the load for their less talented teammates - yet you think that kind of talent, hard work, confidence should come with a dose of humility?

You cant have it both ways. The drive that makes Paul Pierce great is only possible because of a burning belief that he is better than his opponents. You cant burn that hot, for this long - without having a moment when the pot boils over.

So, you either have a guy like Brandon Bass - who is by all accounts a humble, sweetheart of a guy - who will be a career role player without the disposition to be a star. Or you have a star that is full of himself and because of that, is the man who carries your team for decades. You cant have both.

From my perspective, I brought up the humility aspect for two reasons: 1) because that's a big part of Tim Tebow's original motivations; and 2) in response to cowens, who saw it as "not mocking, its an athlete thanking the almighty for a blessed moment."

I have no problem with Pierce reveling in the moment. It was a great game by a supremely confident and talented player who willed his team to a win and wouldn't let the Hawks stand in his way. I thought Tebowing was over the top, but that's my take on it. Would you be fine with it if Kobe or LeBron did it in the Garden?

Mrkleen

When did Bird run to half court and bring attention to himself?
And where did I try to tell you he's arrogant?
Pierce can't hold a candle to Bird when it comes to arrogance.

About the only thing that I can remember Bird doing was after making a three agianst whoever to win the game he sort of whirlwinded his arms around like helicopter blades as he was heading down the sideline.

And what does trash talking have to do with this anyway?

Bringing attention solely to oneself?

Anyway I respect your opinion just would like SOMEONE to tell me if Kobe or Bron did this in our house that they would not care.

beat

.....and Lebron did do the same thing last year in the final playoff game when they beat us, I had no problem with it. Athletes have done this similar pose before Tebow!!!

Outside wrote:

mrkleen09 wrote:This is where sports fans confuse me.

You want your star players to be aggressive, hard nosed, strong willed, finely tuned athletes who do everything to win and carry the load for their less talented teammates - yet you think that kind of talent, hard work, confidence should come with a dose of humility?

You cant have it both ways. The drive that makes Paul Pierce great is only possible because of a burning belief that he is better than his opponents. You cant burn that hot, for this long - without having a moment when the pot boils over.

So, you either have a guy like Brandon Bass - who is by all accounts a humble, sweetheart of a guy - who will be a career role player without the disposition to be a star. Or you have a star that is full of himself and because of that, is the man who carries your team for decades. You cant have both.

From my perspective, I brought up the humility aspect for two reasons: 1) because that's a big part of Tim Tebow's original motivations; and 2) in response to cowens, who saw it as "not mocking, its an athlete thanking the almighty for a blessed moment."

I have no problem with Pierce reveling in the moment. It was a great game by a supremely confident and talented player who willed his team to a win and wouldn't let the Hawks stand in his way. I thought Tebowing was over the top, but that's my take on it. Would you be fine with it if Kobe or LeBron did it in the Garden?

I have asked this 3 times.................. no response except from you.

I'd be all over them with as much crap as Sam would allow on here!

beat

beat wrote:

Outside wrote:

mrkleen09 wrote:This is where sports fans confuse me.

You want your star players to be aggressive, hard nosed, strong willed, finely tuned athletes who do everything to win and carry the load for their less talented teammates - yet you think that kind of talent, hard work, confidence should come with a dose of humility?

You cant have it both ways. The drive that makes Paul Pierce great is only possible because of a burning belief that he is better than his opponents. You cant burn that hot, for this long - without having a moment when the pot boils over.

So, you either have a guy like Brandon Bass - who is by all accounts a humble, sweetheart of a guy - who will be a career role player without the disposition to be a star. Or you have a star that is full of himself and because of that, is the man who carries your team for decades. You cant have both.

From my perspective, I brought up the humility aspect for two reasons: 1) because that's a big part of Tim Tebow's original motivations; and 2) in response to cowens, who saw it as "not mocking, its an athlete thanking the almighty for a blessed moment."

I have no problem with Pierce reveling in the moment. It was a great game by a supremely confident and talented player who willed his team to a win and wouldn't let the Hawks stand in his way. I thought Tebowing was over the top, but that's my take on it. Would you be fine with it if Kobe or LeBron did it in the Garden?

I have asked this 3 times.................. no response except from you.

I'd be all over them with as much crap as Sam would allow on here!

beat

beat - And I bet Cowens would be right there with you!

cowens/oldschool wrote:.....and Lebron did do the same thing last year in the final playoff game when they beat us, I had no problem with it. Athletes have done this similar pose before Tebow!!!

Cow

I do not recall this. Can you find a photo or something and post it? And if not just exactly what did he do?
I'd love to go back and look at the game on discussion that followed if possible.

beat

steve3344 wrote:

beat wrote:

Outside wrote:

mrkleen09 wrote:This is where sports fans confuse me.

You want your star players to be aggressive, hard nosed, strong willed, finely tuned athletes who do everything to win and carry the load for their less talented teammates - yet you think that kind of talent, hard work, confidence should come with a dose of humility?

You cant have it both ways. The drive that makes Paul Pierce great is only possible because of a burning belief that he is better than his opponents. You cant burn that hot, for this long - without having a moment when the pot boils over.

So, you either have a guy like Brandon Bass - who is by all accounts a humble, sweetheart of a guy - who will be a career role player without the disposition to be a star. Or you have a star that is full of himself and because of that, is the man who carries your team for decades. You cant have both.

From my perspective, I brought up the humility aspect for two reasons: 1) because that's a big part of Tim Tebow's original motivations; and 2) in response to cowens, who saw it as "not mocking, its an athlete thanking the almighty for a blessed moment."

I have no problem with Pierce reveling in the moment. It was a great game by a supremely confident and talented player who willed his team to a win and wouldn't let the Hawks stand in his way. I thought Tebowing was over the top, but that's my take on it. Would you be fine with it if Kobe or LeBron did it in the Garden?

I have asked this 3 times.................. no response except from you.

I'd be all over them with as much crap as Sam would allow on here!

beat

beat - And I bet Cowens would be right there with you!

beat

steve3344 wrote: No players were more "aggressive, hard nosed, strong willed, finely tuned athletes who do everything to win and carry the load for their less talented teammates" than Russell and Hondo. And if you want to go to a later generation, throw in Bird, Dr. J, Magic, Michael Jordan, etc., or more recently Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Lebron or Derrick Rose. Ever see any of them show up their opponent with an act like what Pierce did? Much as I dislike Kobe and Lebron as opponents, I don't ever see them or the others I mentioned do anything out of the ordinary in terms of celebrating a big moment. That stuff is generally reserved for the lesser tier players (like Antoine's wiggle after hitting a three for example). Pierce should be above that.

LOL.

You are telling us that Kobe and Lebron doesnt talk trash during the course of a tight game?



What about Kobe?



Give me a break.

beat wrote:Mrkleen

When did Bird run to half court and bring attention to himself?

So you think calling out every member of the opposing team and talking smack the entire game nearly every night is LESS offensive than kneeling down at half court?

OK.

mrkleen09 wrote:

beat wrote:Mrkleen

When did Bird run to half court and bring attention to himself?

So you think calling out every member of the opposing team and talking smack the entire game nearly every night is LESS offensive than kneeling down at half court?

OK.

YES

What Pierce did was ONE act out of the ordinary. Trash talking all game and going out to half court away from others is not the same.

beat

beat

"Hometown Bias" is always a factor in discussions such as this.
swish

From the "other" side of the fence

http://hawksquawk.net/community/topic/367628-tebowed/

beat

beat wrote:

steve3344 wrote:

beat wrote:

Outside wrote:

mrkleen09 wrote:This is where sports fans confuse me.

You want your star players to be aggressive, hard nosed, strong willed, finely tuned athletes who do everything to win and carry the load for their less talented teammates - yet you think that kind of talent, hard work, confidence should come with a dose of humility?

You cant have it both ways. The drive that makes Paul Pierce great is only possible because of a burning belief that he is better than his opponents. You cant burn that hot, for this long - without having a moment when the pot boils over.

So, you either have a guy like Brandon Bass - who is by all accounts a humble, sweetheart of a guy - who will be a career role player without the disposition to be a star. Or you have a star that is full of himself and because of that, is the man who carries your team for decades. You cant have both.

From my perspective, I brought up the humility aspect for two reasons: 1) because that's a big part of Tim Tebow's original motivations; and 2) in response to cowens, who saw it as "not mocking, its an athlete thanking the almighty for a blessed moment."

I have no problem with Pierce reveling in the moment. It was a great game by a supremely confident and talented player who willed his team to a win and wouldn't let the Hawks stand in his way. I thought Tebowing was over the top, but that's my take on it. Would you be fine with it if Kobe or LeBron did it in the Garden?

I have asked this 3 times.................. no response except from you.

I'd be all over them with as much crap as Sam would allow on here!

beat

beat - And I bet Cowens would be right there with you!

beat

You know you'd be right there with beat and me, right Cow? Let's see you Antoine wiggle your way out of that double standard if you say no =).

beat wrote:

mrkleen09 wrote:

beat wrote:Mrkleen

When did Bird run to half court and bring attention to himself?

So you think calling out every member of the opposing team and talking smack the entire game nearly every night is LESS offensive than kneeling down at half court?

OK.

YES

What Pierce did was ONE act out of the ordinary. Trash talking all game and going out to half court away from others is not the same.

beat

totally disagree. It is all part of the confidence necessary to make it in the NBA....and a means to get under your opponents skin. Same exact thing.

Mrkleen

let it rest.

I will, we are not changing eithers mind.

But here is something for you to read from an Atlanta supporter written before last nights game' man has a bit of Kreskin in him.

beat


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Posted Yesterday, 05:23 PM
The greatest expert at drawing the foul wears Celtic green. Watch him work
his magic tonight. Pierce knows exactly how to do this. And, he nearly always
hits his free throws. Expect a lot of "and one's" from him tonight.

Fear and intimidation are their tools. King James is the greatest at crying to the
refs but, as a team, Boston has to be one of the top teams, lead by their esteemed HC.

Hate to say this but, if our beloved Hawks don't wake up, Boston will run them out
of their own building and the entire series will be over, Rondo or no Rondo. They
will have two things to motovate them. Missing Rondo and being down 0-1.

Expect a war tonight. Win tonight, either team, or forget the series. If the Hawks win,
I don't believe Celtics will be able to catch us. If Boston wins, without Rondo, Hawks
will be buried when he returns.

Pierce is the key tonight for Boston and JJ is key for us.GO HAWKS!!!

In my honest opinion, I really wish Paul hadn't done what he did, but he did it, much to the chagrin of his coach. After the game, someone asked Doc what he thought about what Pierce did, and he responded that he did it, caught up in the moment, but he wished he didn't do it. I am sure Doc called him out on it in private. But, will I think any differently about Pierce, NO.

Talk about other cocky players from the Celtics, the list is a mile long, Bird, McHale, Maxwell, Walker, and now Pierce. If you want to go way back, Russell just let his play do his talking for him, and Havlicek just wasn't involved in any of that trash talking business, he let his mastery do his talking for HIM.

So, to dwell on this is crazy, if Atlanta uses this to motivate them, they are
grabbing at straws.

Beat-I see where you are coming from, and I personally agree with you. I
don't like this kind of foolishness because he really looked silly out there.
In all his years here, I have never seen Paul react this way. Is it age? Is it
mockery? I don't know, but, let's move on and give him a break here, he
just won a very important game for us with heart and soul.

Rosalee

Agree with this 100 %

Beat-I see where you are coming from, and I personally agree with you. I
don't like this kind of foolishness because he really looked silly out there.
In all his years here, I have never seen Paul react this way. Is it age? Is it
mockery? I don't know, but, let's move on and give him a break here, he
just won a very important game for us with heart and soul..

Cept the TEAM won the game led by Pierce not the other way around.

But what if Atlanta is motivated more by this then steals a game in Boston? At this stage we are not head and shoulders better than them.
Suppose they win the series and they point to that moment/

I know it's pure speculation and I hope we put any thought to them winning even one more game to bed Friday.

beat

steve3344 wrote:

beat wrote:

steve3344 wrote:

beat wrote:

Outside wrote:

mrkleen09 wrote:This is where sports fans confuse me.

You want your star players to be aggressive, hard nosed, strong willed, finely tuned athletes who do everything to win and carry the load for their less talented teammates - yet you think that kind of talent, hard work, confidence should come with a dose of humility?

You cant have it both ways. The drive that makes Paul Pierce great is only possible because of a burning belief that he is better than his opponents. You cant burn that hot, for this long - without having a moment when the pot boils over.

So, you either have a guy like Brandon Bass - who is by all accounts a humble, sweetheart of a guy - who will be a career role player without the disposition to be a star. Or you have a star that is full of himself and because of that, is the man who carries your team for decades. You cant have both.

From my perspective, I brought up the humility aspect for two reasons: 1) because that's a big part of Tim Tebow's original motivations; and 2) in response to cowens, who saw it as "not mocking, its an athlete thanking the almighty for a blessed moment."

I have no problem with Pierce reveling in the moment. It was a great game by a supremely confident and talented player who willed his team to a win and wouldn't let the Hawks stand in his way. I thought Tebowing was over the top, but that's my take on it. Would you be fine with it if Kobe or LeBron did it in the Garden?

I have asked this 3 times.................. no response except from you.

I'd be all over them with as much crap as Sam would allow on here!

beat

beat - And I bet Cowens would be right there with you!

beat

You know you'd be right there with beat and me, right Cow? Let's see you Antoine wiggle your way out of that double standard if you say no =).

steve don't know where your going with this, I have no problem with what Pierce did, to me he didn't mock anybody.

beat I don't have time to look right now, but remember before they interviewed him, he made them wait and he was in a very similar position bowing on one knee, with his eyes closed for a moment, then he talked about the game and gave homage to the Boston Celtics.....we know why he left Cleveland, we made him leave, he couldn't beat us.

This certainly is an active post-game thread!

Wonder what caused all the back and forth??

cowens/oldschool wrote:

steve3344 wrote:

beat wrote:

steve3344 wrote:

beat wrote:

Outside wrote:

mrkleen09 wrote:This is where sports fans confuse me.

You want your star players to be aggressive, hard nosed, strong willed, finely tuned athletes who do everything to win and carry the load for their less talented teammates - yet you think that kind of talent, hard work, confidence should come with a dose of humility?

You cant have it both ways. The drive that makes Paul Pierce great is only possible because of a burning belief that he is better than his opponents. You cant burn that hot, for this long - without having a moment when the pot boils over.

So, you either have a guy like Brandon Bass - who is by all accounts a humble, sweetheart of a guy - who will be a career role player without the disposition to be a star. Or you have a star that is full of himself and because of that, is the man who carries your team for decades. You cant have both.

From my perspective, I brought up the humility aspect for two reasons: 1) because that's a big part of Tim Tebow's original motivations; and 2) in response to cowens, who saw it as "not mocking, its an athlete thanking the almighty for a blessed moment."

I have no problem with Pierce reveling in the moment. It was a great game by a supremely confident and talented player who willed his team to a win and wouldn't let the Hawks stand in his way. I thought Tebowing was over the top, but that's my take on it. Would you be fine with it if Kobe or LeBron did it in the Garden?

I have asked this 3 times.................. no response except from you.

I'd be all over them with as much crap as Sam would allow on here!

beat

beat - And I bet Cowens would be right there with you!

beat

You know you'd be right there with beat and me, right Cow? Let's see you Antoine wiggle your way out of that double standard if you say no =).

steve don't know where your going with this, I have no problem with what Pierce did, to me he didn't mock anybody.

beat I don't have time to look right now, but remember before they interviewed him, he made them wait and he was in a very similar position bowing on one knee, with his eyes closed for a moment, then he talked about the game and gave homage to the Boston Celtics.....we know why he left Cleveland, we made him leave, he couldn't beat us.

Where I'm going with this, and the point others have raised is, if Kobe or Lebron did the exact same thing in the Gahden at midcourt after an important playoff win would you raise Holy Hell about it with some of us or just say, "No biggie. It's cool. That's their right and I see nothing wrong with it."

Comment?

I hope somebody on this board is happy we won the game.