Doc takes the blame for Ray's departure

This is just one reason why players love him and want to play for him. He is sincere and true and the players see that, hear that and respond in kind. He is the polar opposite of SVG. We don't give enough credit to Danny for attracting talent of this quality and then convincing him to buy in "whole hog" longterm. He is now "A Celtic", locked into the mystique, as opposed to someone who coached the Celtics. That took Danny being able to work with Doc effectively and because Doc bought into the mystique, and because of who he is as a man, he got KG to buy in too. Remember the friction between Pierce and Doc when Doc first got here? Doc wanted Pierce to change his game and Pierce looked like him like he had 2 heads. Pierce loves Doc now too.

When I read this article one of the things that came through that surprised me (the stuff I wrote above didn't surprise me) was just how ego-driven Ray's decision was. It makes Ray's "good soldier" persona look like it was just a facade, an act.


http://www.csnne.com/basketball-boston-celtics/celtics-talk/Rivers-takes-the-blame-for-Allens-depart?blockID=749633&feedID=10424


bob

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Think about it Bob. It has been well documented that KG hates playing center, no matter how good he played there. This could have played a big role in his decision if he was not a 'TEAM' player. All this time I thought that Ray was.....it appears I was wrong.

Doc may take the "blame", but I doubt many of us will blame him for anything but being a great coach. Funny, all this time and the image and persona of Ray Allen may have been a little off center???? He may regret making some of those remarks he made when he signed in Miami, because then he opened the door for someone to finally stand up and say what and how the Celtics really felt. I guess I am a little disappointed and alot disillusioned.

Rosalie

Doc has so much class man....seriously. What a great coach and an even better person.

He could have let the veterans run the team - and push for DA to deal Rondo last season. They may have kept Ray here for another year or two, but would have DESTROYED the long term future of this team.

Instead of tearing him down, he empowered Rajon to take more responsibility and get more responsiblity and in the playoffs - the kid responded in spades.

Now they have Rondo, Green, Bass, Melo, Christopher, Lee - all to run with Rondo this year and into the future.

And he is right about Ray - not only will he not be starting in Miami - but he wont be closing either...and if he is, he will be on the court playing PG (which will be funny) or SG which will be worse. Can you imagine Ray trying to guard Rondo or Pierce?

Mrkleen,

Did you mean to say SF instead of SG in the next-to-last line? Whatever, congratulations on an excellent post that pretty much sums up the matter.

So often it happens that the longer you know (or think you know) someone, the less impressed you are with him/her. Perhaps Ray is a good example. Ironically, the more we learn about Doc, the more impressive he seems. Two examples traveling in opposite directions.

Sam

Rosalie,

We all know how you felt about Ray, and I'm sure we've all had experiences in which we've become disillusioned about people we had previously admired greatly. You can take heart in the fact that your instincts have always been above reproach and most admirable. If you ever misjudge someone, I'm betting that your inner goodness will make you err on the side of giving that person the benefit of the doubt until he/she proves undeserving.

It's a real pleasure to know you.

Sam

sam wrote:Mrkleen,

Did you mean to say SF instead of SG in the next-to-last line? Whatever, congratulations on an excellent post that pretty much sums up the matter.

So often it happens that the longer you know (or think you know) someone, the less impressed you are with him/her. Perhaps Ray is a good example. Ironically, the more we learn about Doc, the more impressive he seems. Two examples traveling in opposite directions.

Sam

Yes, sorry for the typo.

I was thinking D Wade will be on the court in the 4th down the stretch. So either Ray will have to play the role Mike Miller played last year - meaning he gets to cover Pierce or even Bass / Green. Or he plays the PG position, in which case Rondo will make him look foolish.

I think Ray is a good man, a good father, a good overall person. But I thought he was more mature than he is proving to be. People have been kissing his backside since he was a high school player in South Carolina. You would think by now, that he would be humbled by life....but clearly he still expects to be the belle of the ball, prom king - even after all these years.

Mrkleen,

Logic suggests that the contrast in skills between Ray and Bradley would give Ray more opportunity to carve out a unique niche with the Celtics than backing up another, but more impactful, offensive powerhouse with the Heat. But it's becoming obvious that logic had less to do with Ray's thought process than other factors (possibly even including petulance).

I can't help but wish I could gain some insight into how he and his wife rationalized the change in medical care for his son.

Bottom line, it's time for us to move on. Perhaps I'm just rationalizing Ray's move, but I can't help thinking the Celtics now have more substantial depth, youth and (my new favorite word) athleticism at Ray's position; and I won't be at all surprised if the combination of Bradley, Terry and Lee consistently combines to score more points and limit the production of opposing SGs than Bradley and Ray managed last season.

Sam

You are right there Sam, too much conversation on something that is over and done. How many times do we really have to try to rationalize Ray's decision?
I am glad, though, to hear someone from the Celtics view their take on it. There are alot of hard feelings that may never be resolved, and that, in itself is a shame. That team deserved to go out with a real touch of class.

On to the New Celtics and a new season, I am excited just waiting for it to come.

By the way Bob----when I saw your post about your phone and your Jeb text messages, I could have cried. He is sooo missed here, I loved him dearly.

Rosalie

Doc Rivers: Blame me, not Rondo

ESPNBoston.com

Celtics coach Doc Rivers said he thought his decision-making was the primary reason why guard Ray Allen chose to sign with the Miami Heat over staying in Boston, not the veteran's deteriorating relationship with Rajon Rondo.

"People can use all the Rondo stuff -- and it was there, no doubt about that -- but it was me more than Rondo," Rivers told Yahoo! Sports in an interview conducted at the London Olympics, where the coach is working as an NBC analyst. "I'm the guy who gave Rondo the ball. I'm the guy who decided that Rondo needed to be more of the leader of the team. That doesn't mean guys liked that -- and Ray did not love that -- because Rondo now had the ball all the time.

"Think about everything (Allen) said when he left, 'I want to be more of a part of the offense.' Everything was back at Rondo. And I look at that, and say, 'That's not Rondo's fault.' That's what I wanted Rondo to do, and that's what Rondo should've done."

Rivers also told Yahoo! that Allen was bothered by losing his starting job to Avery Bradley, but the coach said he didn't regret the decision to start Bradley because it was what was best for the team.

Allen turned down Boston's two-year, $12 million offer to accept half that from the Heat, who could offer only a $3 million annual salary utilizing the taxpayer's mini-midlevel exception. Rivers questioned the notion that Allen will find a bigger role with the Heat.

"Ray's got to do what's best for Ray," Rivers told Yahoo! Sports. "But having said that, he's not going to start in Miami. And I doubt he gets the ball more. But I do think, for a guy like Ray and Paul (Pierce) and Kevin (Garnett) and Kobe (Bryant), it's easier to go somewhere and do that, than have it taken from you where you're at."

Focusing on doing what's best for the team instead of worrying about how individual players feel allows him to "coach free," Rivers told Yahoo! Sports.

"I always tell my guys: If I'm wrong, hopefully I'm smart enough, or my staff, or one of you guys -- because I do listen to you -- will tell me that I'm wrong," Rivers told Yahoo! Sports. "But not one player ever told me, 'Hey, I don't think you should start Avery.'"

Rivers admitted to being initially "pissed" at Allen, not necessarily for choosing the Heat but for his reasons for not wanting to return to Boston. He added that he rationalized it soon after and since has moved on.

112288

In retrospect, Ray Allen could not accept what was going to be his new role in Boston. He had become, compared to Bradley, a defensive liability to the team. Ray still had a vision of himself closer to his prime than he really was. Ray lost sight of all the perks (not Kendrick) management provided for him such as use of a private jet when his son, Walker (not Antoinne) was having diabetis health issues. His shooting was no longer deadly enogh to compensate for his defensive shortcomings. Sadly, despite all this, had Ray been more mature, he still could have seen his # 20 go up into the rafters, pleasing not only himself, but Sherm Douglass & Larry Seigfreid. Doc, the ever classy one just as much as played Lee Majors role as the Fall Guy for the whole situation. Doc is truly one of a kind!

MD!

MDCelticsFan wrote:In retrospect, Ray Allen could not accept what was going to be his new role in Boston. He had become, compared to Bradley, a defensive liability to the team. Ray still had a vision of himself closer to his prime than he really was. Ray lost sight of all the perks (not Kendrick) management provided for him such as use of a private jet when his son, Walker (not Antoinne) was having diabetis health issues. His shooting was no longer deadly enogh to compensate for his defensive shortcomings. Sadly, despite all this, had Ray been more mature, he still could have seen his # 20 go up into the rafters, pleasing not only himself, but Sherm Douglass & Larry Seigfreid. Doc, the ever classy one just as much as played Lee Majors role as the Fall Guy for the whole situation. Doc is truly one of a kind!

MD!

MD,

Well said.

bob


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Hi,
Kudos to Doc. Classy and PC as usual.
The only question I have is why now? The news of RA leaving Boston and moving to Miami is almost 1 month old, all even the most persistent discussions of that died about 2 weeks ago. So, what prompted Doc to go back and talk about it? Was it that deep and painful so he can't let it go? Or AWoj got very close the actual reason why RA left Celtics and Doc put up smoke and mirrors to avoid telling the truth?

I hope this whole hoopla about RA is or will soon be over and his 2 replacements, JT and CL, will prove it to be blessing in disguise.

AK

Thanks Bob:

Coming from you, I graciously accept your accolade. Now, Do you have an Escalade you want to part with? (LOL)

MD!

So it seems that those of us who were beating that poor horse to death, and the others who continued to kick that old dog, weren't that far off after all lol.
I am feeling better and better about Ray leaving. He won't be missed on the court, methinks. Ray was the star of any team he played for all his life until he came to Boston. It's a given to be that kind of star, one has to have a large ego. Ray saw that he was on a downward spiral from #1, alone; #3 when he joined KG and PP, and #4 once Rondo started to truly come into his own. (he ain't quite there yet pholks,he will continue to improve.)
I think Ray wanted to go out with a bang even though he is HOF all the way. But #5 or less? Ona team where he was one of the "big three" ? I don't think he wanted to go there. But to take a lesser role, with less props, on the arch rival. That's what irked me. I think he will really regret it next fall when #18 is raised. But maybe not. Maybe there is more to this story than we know or Doc and Ray admit. In any event, I wish Ray and his phamily all the best. And may he shoot nothing but bricks when playing the C's. I am rethinking booing him. Guess I'll just ignore.

Mulcogi,

I agree with you about feeling better and better about Ray leaving. I actually suspected it would be a blessing in disguise as soon as I heard about it. I liked the idea of speeding up the Celtics' transition into the future by parting with an increasingly weak (in terms of physicality and performance) link in the chain and hopefully replacing it with a stronger link. In fact, Danny provided two potentially stronger link.

All of that has nothing to do with beating or kicking horses and dogs. Expressing opinions—even venting— is one thing, and usually very interesting to read. Belaboring is belaboring.

On a far more important topic, I hope things are going dramatically better in your life. I'd appreciate reading an update if and when you have the time.

Sam

Doc did no wrong. Ray Allen was for Ray Allen. He has a quiet but extra large ego which tends to surface in the form of back stabbing. He stabbed Danny and Celtic management....he stabbed Doc!

If Ray could not accept what Doc was doing for the teams best interest.........FLUX YOU RAY!

112288

As far as belaboring, I'd rather be laboring than not be laboring and loafing for my bread in the unemployment line.

MD!

And to think I use to refer to him as the yoyo master.

Doc has given us a unique and very candid take on Ray Allen. This however does not make me dislike Ray. He was still a great player for us. Any flaws that he had only makes him human..

It will be interesting to see how our other vets, PP and KG handle role changes that are most certain to occur in the next 2 years.

Dboss

Just my $.02. It's a general statement of opinion, which is what we're here for, so please don't anyone take it personally or become offended.

I'm finding all the Ray bashing a little juvenile. I'm not limiting it to this board, and you would think it would be long done by now.
Throughout Celtic-land it sounds like someone retaliating at their high school girlfriend for leaving them.

Here's the quote from this thread that I think would be a great end to the sophomoric ranting in all Celtics media about Ray Allen;

"Doc has given us a unique and very candid take on Ray Allen. This however does not make me dislike Ray. He was still a great player for us. Any flaws that he had only makes him human..."

Ray Allen was a great Celtic player while he was here. He didn't hurt us or leave us hanging by departing. Why he left is why he left. Maybe he should get credit for having the stones to try and put himself in what he perceived as a better situation regardless of money.

Thanks for the quote dboss. Time to move on Celtic-land.

NY,

With the economy in a deflation phase, and the US $dollar devalued because of all the cheap money available thanks to the Fed Reserve and that idiot Bernanke make that $.01!

We all hear what you are saying, or at least I do...but for me its not that he left and to whom........it's is the way he left. He allowed Boston to get into a cap problem...and gave ridiculous terms that he knew no sane person would accept. He set the Celtics up for a fall...but thanks to Danny we got out of it through some slick moves.

112288

112288,

If even $.01!

Another way to look at it is that the money the Celtics were budgeting to sign Ray went unused on Ray and allowed us what we needed to sign Courtney Lee. Ray's possible and then actual departure first motivated Ainge to go get Terry, a capable veteran at a good price, and then have the money to sign Lee, a strong and developing young guard. I think rather than put us into a cap squeeze Ray supplied the motivation to secure two guards who will play big minutes after losing one who was going to have a significantly reduced role.

I think the glass is half full. Looks like a Shamrock Shake too!

Regards and happy travels to The Cape. You and Sam have a Wellfleet Oyster and a Harpoon IPA for me!

Thanks NY! I do think the non Ray signing was a blessing for the Celtics. We got two quality players in return for a guy who may have 2 years max left in his body!

112288

None of us have pro athletic careers, I really wonder just how hard it is for a player at this level to accept dimishing skills and with it a lesser role?

Gotta be hard when that is all you have done for 15-20 years.

I remember playing fastpitch softball into my late 30's was reasonably competitive but each year the damn first base got further away ( I could not be getting any slower) Even then I continued to play not so much for the game but the aftergame activities.

I remember not too many years ago playing OF in a SLOW PITCH game calling for a flyball........" I got it, I got it, I got it.......NO I DON'T, NO I DON'T, NO I DON'T." (when I realized I was not going to get there....)

It was time to move to SLOW PITCH CATCHER. ( a position that was unthinkable for me to play in years past!)

Growing up one of my favorites was the Mick. He was an Idol before Hondo and the Celts took over. I always remember him saying that he regretted playing those last season(s) as it caused his lifetime batting average to dip under .300 and he always considered himself a .300 hitter but officially he's .298.

Russ could have probably played a couple more seasons but I think he knew long before that 69 season ended he was done win or loose, so it had to be super sweet walking off that court one final time.... a winner.

Agree that I too am still a bit put off by this whole thing re Ray, hope he clanks a lot of shots and all of them when he's facing us. So a door closed for us but like they say a couple more opened and it sure appears we are better off for it.

beat

That is how I feel KG will go out. I really do not see him finishing his three year contract. He will walk away before he becomes irrelevant to the team and the game. The one thing these guys have is a huge amount of Pride, and they all deal with it differently. Certainly, if KG felt he was not going to be an important cog in this wheel, he would have walked. Each man is different from the other.

I wonder what would have happened with Pierce if KG retired or walked, with Ray walking away, would he have come back?

RosalieTCeltics wrote:That is how I feel KG will go out. I really do not see him finishing his three year contract. He will walk away before he becomes irrelevant to the team and the game. The one thing these guys have is a huge amount of Pride, and they all deal with it differently. Certainly, if KG felt he was not going to be an important cog in this wheel, he would have walked. Each man is different from the other.

I wonder what would have happened with Pierce if KG retired or walked, with Ray walking away, would he have come back?

Rosalie,

If KG retired (or signed with another team), I don't think we would be looking forward to the next season with quite the same team (or hope!) that we now have.

I really don't think Pierce would have walked away from all that money left on his contract, but what do I really know about that? Pierce wouldn't be as happy and the team wouldn't be as good, that's for sure!!

gyso