The Lakers' Season after Starting 1-4

Rosalie, that's why he needs a good coach/psychiatrist. Doc might be able to coax him to be a better person and player. However, I can't imagine him leaving sunny climes.

Even if we buy him a good snow blower????

He is hard to root for, nobody roots for Goliath and hes such a sourpuss, he changes his mind nonstop like a woman, no offense Rosie. Why would Dwight want to resign with such an aging team like the one hes on, going forward the whole team is too old, no depth, etc?

Howard would love to play with a young core like ours, only way for it to work would be to amnisty Pierce, then sign Howard as a free agent....how ruthless would Danny go?

Even if Boston amnestied Pierce, they would have about $53m in 11 contracts. They would only have about $7m to offer Dwight when Dwight could make over $20m next season with the Lakers or another team that offered him a max contract.

To add to the oddness of the Lakers 2012-13 season, last night Kobe had 0 shot attempts in the first half and 8 assists. He wound up going 1-8 for 4 points, 9 assists and 8 turnovers in the Lakers win over Phoenix.

More people are now getting on Dwight's case and telling him that he needs to step up, focus and try to be a leader. Rick Fox and JVG have been very critical of Dwight in the last couple of days. Dwight's yelling at Nash running down the court on Sunday when Nash tried to get him the ball was the most recent example of how Dwight just doesn't get it. His story from last week about how he sometimes can't feel his legs when he runs down the court looks like it was made up, to get people to feel sorry for him. Dwight's biggest problem is his heart, not his back, legs or right shoulder.

tjmakz wrote:To add to the oddness of the Lakers 2012-13 season, last night Kobe had 0 shot attempts in the first half and 8 assists. He wound up going 1-8 for 4 points, 9 assists and 8 turnovers in the Lakers win over Phoenix.

More people are now getting on Dwight's case and telling him that he needs to step up, focus and try to be a leader. Rick Fox and JVG have been very critical of Dwight in the last couple of days. Dwight's yelling at Nash running down the court on Sunday when Nash tried to get him the ball was the most recent example of how Dwight just doesn't get it. His story from last week about how he sometimes can't feel his legs when he runs down the court looks like it was made up, to get people to feel sorry for him. Dwight's biggest problem is his heart, not his back, legs or right shoulder.

TJ,

Sadly, I agree with you (it's not sad I agree with you, but that you are right). Dwight Howard is a basketball Grinch. His heart is two sizes too small.

And you cannot play with Kobe if you don't have heart, he will chew on you like you are his personal dog toy. I have opined that Kobe and D'Antoni need to shut up and not keep airing their respective grievances in the press, but it's getting harder and harder to argue that a team that has more talent on its roster than any other team in the league is struggling to make the playoffs in a league where more than 50% of the league makes the playoffs, shouldn't have somebody sounding off about it.

Still, they are only 3 games back in the loss column from Houston, and the last game of the regular season is Houston vs LAL in LA. I don't know who owns the tie-breakers, but if LAL is just one game behind Houston at that point...

bob


.

Right now Houston is up 2 games to 1.

TJ,

I didn't see the game, but it almost seems as though Kobe
must have been focusing on areas other than shooting in order to
galvanize his teammates. And, if he was, it seems to have worked in
terms of a win. It would arguably be a smart move on his part,
especially since he focused on supporting the offense with assists and
rebounds. It would be interesting to know what went on in the locker
room and huddles before, during and after that game.

The Lakers'
season with Dwight reminds me all too much of the 1977-78 Celtics
season, which I consider the lowest point of the Celtics franchise.
Sidney Wicks was a virus that affected the team
in John Havlicek's last season. Wicks wasn't star of the magnitude of
Dwight, but he managed to make a mockery of a proud franchise—to the
point where legend has it that Red Auerbach was on his way to sign with
the Knicks when a Boston cab driver talked him out of it. I know
Heinsohn quit as coach mid-season, but his replacement, Tom Sanders,
couldn't turn things around either.

I remember going to a game
with a friend, and we were both in tears as how lackadaisical the team
was; and even Havlicek wasn't physically up to doing much about it.

The
only good thing about that season happened in Havlicek's last game,
when the team fast broke as Ernie
Digregorio fed John on play after play until John had to check himself
out, due to exhaustion,with 28 points. That was probably the only time
that season when the Garden rang with an extended crescendo of cheers
from a Celtics crowd.

Obviously, the franchise recovered, and I know you're justifiably confident that it won't take the Lakers long to right the ship. They always do.

Sam

It would be great if we could somehow get Dwight Howard.

I would bet that just about everyone that is playing in the NBA is nursing some sort of injury. And depending on the extent of the injury who are we to judge the toughnerss of the particular player? The only one I know that doesn't have a heart is the tin man and howard is no tin man. He had back surgery during the off season and now has some sort of a muscle tear in his shoulder yet everyone expects him to be the physically dominating center that he was when he was heathy...Ridiculous.

Even if Dwight was heathly and playing at a higher level the lakers would still be in trouble because Steve Nash cannot cover his position defensively. Metta is and always will be a nut (the wife refers to him as Melee)

And of course you have a coach that is still trying to figure out how to use what he has, plus Gasol has been injured and Kobe lacks the proper protocall to address issues that he perceives without going to the media and turning it into a freakin circus.

For the Record that bum Howard is still averaging 16.3 PPG leads the league in rebounds at almost 12 per game has 2.4 shot blocks and leads the Lakers in FG percentage at .576.

If only he was wearing Green.



dboss

dboss

Good point Kobe has a history of being a backstabber and just bloviating to the media, many times right after coaches and players all agreed/promised to keep things in house. I grew up watching guys like Havlicek, Cowens and Dr J, they were all great ambassadors for the game and you pulled for them because they just emulated all that was right for their respective team and class. Kobe has been a spoiled pampered brat his whole life, able to get away with whatever his whole life, he knows his shit don't stink and he can get away with it.

cow

bobheckler wrote:

tjmakz wrote:To add to the oddness of the Lakers 2012-13 season, last night Kobe had 0 shot attempts in the first half and 8 assists. He wound up going 1-8 for 4 points, 9 assists and 8 turnovers in the Lakers win over Phoenix.

More people are now getting on Dwight's case and telling him that he needs to step up, focus and try to be a leader. Rick Fox and JVG have been very critical of Dwight in the last couple of days. Dwight's yelling at Nash running down the court on Sunday when Nash tried to get him the ball was the most recent example of how Dwight just doesn't get it. His story from last week about how he sometimes can't feel his legs when he runs down the court looks like it was made up, to get people to feel sorry for him. Dwight's biggest problem is his heart, not his back, legs or right shoulder.

TJ,

Sadly, I agree with you (it's not sad I agree with you, but that you are right). Dwight Howard is a basketball Grinch. His heart is two sizes too small.

And you cannot play with Kobe if you don't have heart, he will chew on you like you are his personal dog toy. I have opined that Kobe and D'Antoni need to shut up and not keep airing their respective grievances in the press, but it's getting harder and harder to argue that a team that has more talent on its roster than any other team in the league is struggling to make the playoffs in a league where more than 50% of the league makes the playoffs, shouldn't have somebody sounding off about it.

Still, they are only 3 games back in the loss column from Houston, and the last game of the regular season is Houston vs LAL in LA. I don't know who owns the tie-breakers, but if LAL is just one game behind Houston at that point...

bob


.

bob,

I'm not sure if you saw Kobe's comments after the Lakers were blown out by the Clippers.
Here is how Kobe felt after the game:

The Lakers were blasted by the Clippers on Thursday night 125-101 at Staples Center. During and after the game, Kobe Bryant was livid. "It's not a good feeling at all," said Bryant. "Once things got difficult, we didn't step up to meet that challenge and I'm not very happy right now and hopefully my teammates feel the same way." Bryant scored 20 points on just 13 shot attempts while dishing 11 assists. He did struggle with six turnovers. "We've just got to sit over the [All-Star] break and just kind of reflect and think on how important this is to you and what it means to you," he said. Los Angeles Times

Kobe also said something about how we can't be laughing and joking after losing by 20 or 30 points.
I wonder who might have been laughing and joking after the game? Maybe Dwight?
It is getting hard to envision Kobe and Dwight making it through next year if they get through this year.
Kobe is not going to get off of Dwight's back and Dwight is just going to zone Kobe out.
Maybe it would be in the Lakers best interests to listen and be open minded to trade offers for Dwight.

cowens/oldschool wrote:dboss

Good point Kobe has a history of being a backstabber and just bloviating to the media, many times right after coaches and players all agreed/promised to keep things in house. I grew up watching guys like Havlicek, Cowens and Dr J, they were all great ambassadors for the game and you pulled for them because they just emulated all that was right for their respective team and class. Kobe has been a spoiled pampered brat his whole life, able to get away with whatever his whole life, he knows his shit don't stink and he can get away with it.

cow

Cow,

I respect your opinion about Kobe even though I don't think it is a fair opinion.
Just because Kobe's family grew up with money compared to some other superstars, that doesn't make him a spoiled pampered brat.
Kobe has worked as hard as anyone in the league to become a superstar.
Kobe has had that same driven mentality since he was in HS.

tjmakz wrote:

bobheckler wrote:

tjmakz wrote:To add to the oddness of the Lakers 2012-13 season, last night Kobe had 0 shot attempts in the first half and 8 assists. He wound up going 1-8 for 4 points, 9 assists and 8 turnovers in the Lakers win over Phoenix.

More people are now getting on Dwight's case and telling him that he needs to step up, focus and try to be a leader. Rick Fox and JVG have been very critical of Dwight in the last couple of days. Dwight's yelling at Nash running down the court on Sunday when Nash tried to get him the ball was the most recent example of how Dwight just doesn't get it. His story from last week about how he sometimes can't feel his legs when he runs down the court looks like it was made up, to get people to feel sorry for him. Dwight's biggest problem is his heart, not his back, legs or right shoulder.

TJ,

Sadly, I agree with you (it's not sad I agree with you, but that you are right). Dwight Howard is a basketball Grinch. His heart is two sizes too small.

And you cannot play with Kobe if you don't have heart, he will chew on you like you are his personal dog toy. I have opined that Kobe and D'Antoni need to shut up and not keep airing their respective grievances in the press, but it's getting harder and harder to argue that a team that has more talent on its roster than any other team in the league is struggling to make the playoffs in a league where more than 50% of the league makes the playoffs, shouldn't have somebody sounding off about it.

Still, they are only 3 games back in the loss column from Houston, and the last game of the regular season is Houston vs LAL in LA. I don't know who owns the tie-breakers, but if LAL is just one game behind Houston at that point...

bob


.

bob,

I'm not sure if you saw Kobe's comments after the Lakers were blown out by the Clippers.
Here is how Kobe felt after the game:

The Lakers were blasted by the Clippers on Thursday night 125-101 at Staples Center. During and after the game, Kobe Bryant was livid. "It's not a good feeling at all," said Bryant. "Once things got difficult, we didn't step up to meet that challenge and I'm not very happy right now and hopefully my teammates feel the same way." Bryant scored 20 points on just 13 shot attempts while dishing 11 assists. He did struggle with six turnovers. "We've just got to sit over the [All-Star] break and just kind of reflect and think on how important this is to you and what it means to you," he said. Los Angeles Times

Kobe also said something about how we can't be laughing and joking after losing by 20 or 30 points.
I wonder who might have been laughing and joking after the game? Maybe Dwight?
It is getting hard to envision Kobe and Dwight making it through next year if they get through this year.
Kobe is not going to get off of Dwight's back and Dwight is just going to zone Kobe out.
Maybe it would be in the Lakers best interests to listen and be open minded to trade offers for Dwight.

TJ,

I didn't see those remarks but if they were directed at anybody but Dwight I'd be shocked, if for no other reason that nobody on that team other than Howard and Nash have the superstar status (and cojones) to laugh after a loss around Kobe, and I sincerely doubt it's Nash.

We are now, I guess, 6 days away from the trade deadline for this year and I haven't heard so much as a whisper of a trade. Due to the CBA, I don't think any team in the league is going to be able to just sign Howard as a free agent straight up without some kind of sign-and-trade or such. So, from a Lakers perspective, they can keep him around and hope the Lakers rally and make the playoffs this year and, if they don't or even if they are just done with Howard, trade him in the off-season for other pieces. Not much downside there for them, other than ego. A big deal was about bringing Howard to LA, with billboards and you name it, and if he doesn't pan out it is a reflection on "you know who". A face-saving point might be that whatever you are getting out of Howard this year it's more than Philly is getting out of Bynum. On the other hand, if Bynum comes back strong next year and Howard is gone and the pieces you get in return don't impress, then it's still egg on his face.

If there's one aspect to the Lakers dysfunctionality that I honestly truly do revel in IS NOT that it is the Lakers (believe it or not), but that it reinforces the perception that a team is more than just a collection of talent. If the Lakers do not make the playoffs (and it is still quite possible they make it), then all those idiots who crowned them before the season even started will be stripped naked of any pretense of knowing what team basketball is about. In fact, I would MUCH rather that it was some team other than the Lakers, so that the inevitable stress it causes you and this board wouldn't be here. Dallas beating Miami in 2011. That is exactly what I am talking about here. All the individual talent in the world, but they couldn't harness, focus and assign roles (and have them accepted and embraced!) to them successfully.


bob


.

tjmakz wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:dboss

Good point Kobe has a history of being a backstabber and just bloviating to the media, many times right after coaches and players all agreed/promised to keep things in house. I grew up watching guys like Havlicek, Cowens and Dr J, they were all great ambassadors for the game and you pulled for them because they just emulated all that was right for their respective team and class. Kobe has been a spoiled pampered brat his whole life, able to get away with whatever his whole life, he knows his shit don't stink and he can get away with it.

cow

Cow,

I respect your opinion about Kobe even though I don't think it is a fair opinion.
Just because Kobe's family grew up with money compared to some other superstars, that doesn't make him a spoiled pampered brat.
Kobe has worked as hard as anyone in the league to become a superstar.
Kobe has had that same driven mentality since he was in HS.

TJ and Cowens,


I think there are few players in the NBA with the work ethic and competitive nature of Kobe Bryant. Gerald Henderson Jr. came from money too. His father won 2 championship with the Celtics and 1 with the Pistons. Jelly Bean Bryant never won a championship. Who would you rather have on your team? This son of a 3x World Champion or that son of an NBA journeyman?

Phil Jackson had, what I thought was, a nasty habit of talking about his players in the press. He used that as an indirect motivational tool. His record is such that I probably should just accept it for its efficacy, but I don't like the style. It seems that Kobe is doing it now, and that's a damn shame. Not every word and gesture by a guru should be perpetuated, and I feel this is one of Phil's that should be buried deeper than Jimmy Hoffa. It's locker room cancer. At this point in Kobe's illustrious career I don't think there's much anybody can do to change or stop it, so we just have to roll our eyes and say "that's Kobe being Kobe".


bob


.

No doubt Kobe is one of the greatest players to ever play.

Right now he is feeling his basketball mortality. He must get to 6 rings but this year is a big setback.

The lakers would be foolish to move Howard unless they can acquire some serious talent. The lakes need to get in line with todays game. Their roster may not work against current competition. They be able to play small and fast.

Dboss

bob,

Some points about the Lakers from one of your posts listed above.
I didn't want to add onto that chain because it is getting long.

The Lakers cannot trade Dwight this off-season because they are over the luxury tax line and under the new CBA starting this year, teams that are over the luxury tax line cannot participate in sign and trades.

I am not sure why you continue to blame everything negative that happens with the Lakers roster on Jimmy Buss. The Lakers made a great trade in not only getting Dwight but also in getting Earl Clark who has turned into a very good bench player and borderline good starter. Look at the 3 players they traded. Bynum is probably out for the year and his career is in question. McRoberts can't break into the rotation for the 2nd to worst team in the league. Eyenga is out of the league. The Lakers made out great in that trade.

I don't really agree with your analysis about a team vs. a collection of talent idea. How good is Steve Nash right now? How good is MWP or Gasol, or the back up pg? The Lakers injuries and age have caught up with them quickly. Up to last years NBA Finals, people here blasted the Heat for having a "collection of talent", not being a team. Well, how did that work out for the those that thought the Heat weren't a team?

It is not like the Lakers have had much flexibility with their roster over the last 10 years. If anyone looks back at this past summer, what more could they have done? They acquired Howard, Clark, Nash, Jamison and Meeks with little payroll flexibility.

I am sure the Lakers know they have to get younger and faster.
They will not take on the contract of a Bargnani or Boozer.
I think they might make a small tweak this year, but nothing grand.
I anticipate that they will amnesty Gasol this summer. Doing that could save the Lakers $60m to $75m for the 2013-14 season.

Trading Dwight would not be the worst thing if they can get a few young players for him.

TJ,

Tell me again how the Lakers could save $60 to $70 million for the 2013-14 season. Does that mean they'll have a negative payroll? Will their players have to buy their own season tickets? No fair keeping that formula to yourself. I want it for the Celtics.

Sam

Sam,

Let's just say the Lakers would have a $99m payroll next season which is basically what they have now.
For math purposes we will round Gasol's 2013-14 salary down to $19m and the luxury tax down to $70m.
The luxury tax penalties increase dramatically for the 2013-14 season.


Here are the tax rates beginning 2013-14:
This is the penalty for going over the $70m threshold.

$0 to $4,999,999 = $1.50 Repeater Rate = $2.50
$5,000,000 to $9,999,999 = $1.75 Repeater Rate = $2.75
$10,000,000 to $14,999,999 = $2.50 Repeater Rate = $3.50
$15,000,000 to $19,999,999 = $3.25 Repeater Rate = $4.25
$20,000,000 to $24,999,999 = $3.75 Repeater Rate = $4.75
$25,000,000 to $29,999,999 = $4.25 Repeater Rate = $5.25
$30,000,000 to $34,999,999 = $4.75 Repeater Rate = $5.75

Since the Lakers would be $29m over the luxury tax line (as highlighted above) and are a repeat luxury tax violator, they would have to pay a rate of $5.25 for every $1.00 over $70m. Therefore the Lakers would have to pay a luxury tax bill of $152,250,000 just for the 2013-14 season. ($29,000,000 x $5.25 = $152,250,000).

If the Lakers amnesty Gasol, that would lower their team salary to $80m which puts them at a repeater rate of $3.50 for every $1.00 over $70m. That means the Lakers would have a luxury tax payment of $35,000,000 ($10,000,000 x $3.50 = $35,000,000).

Wow, it is actually much more then $60m to $75m when you do the math.
I am sure LA will try to move Duhon and Blake to get into the $2.75 rate.
Even if they have to give a team a second round pick and pay a team $1.5m to take Duhon's $1.5m guaranteed contract for next year, it is well worth it. Amnestying MWP doesn't make that much sense when you look at the amount of luxury tax money they will be saving when you compare MWP's contract compared to Gasol's.

Yes, the Lakers would still have to pay Gasol his $19m salary but if a team picks him up and offers Gasol $5m for one year, the Lakers would then have to pay him $14m and the new team $5m.

Gasol might be a nice choice for Boston to use the mid level exception on next summer...

No matter how anybody can word it, Lakers in a whole lotta trouble, Nash is also signed for 2 more years, as is Gasol and MWP, too bad you can't amneisty all 3, they have an old roster, no picks. They're best 2 young players are Hill and Clark, Kobe will be 35 next year. Can anyone see why Howard would come back? he wants to be on a winner in his prime, not playing with this old dysfunctional roster, so after Howard leaves, you have an old Kobe bitching non stop playing with Clark and Hill to look forward to? this is gonna be a very tough situation.....once they lose Howard may have to keep Gasol, then this roster with MWP and Nash is still gonna suffer on the floor. They may struggle to reach .500 next few seasons.

TJ,

Thanks. I had interpreted the savings as being all represented by salaries or cap space. Given the tax situation, it makes sense.

Sam

sam wrote:TJ,

Thanks. I had interpreted the savings as being all represented by salaries or cap space. Given the tax situation, it makes sense.

Sam

Sam,

I just realized why the Lakers luxury tax number looks high.
I did make a mistake in the calculations.
The tax is a progressive tax in which the rate increases every $5m.
So the Lakers tax would start at $2.50/$1.00 for the first $5m over the luxury tax threshold and increase up to $5.25/$1.00 for the amount between $25m to $30m over the luxury tax line.
I originally calculated all of the tax based on a rate of $5.25/$1.00.

cowens/oldschool wrote:No matter how anybody can word it, Lakers in a whole lotta trouble, Nash is also signed for 2 more years, as is Gasol and MWP, too bad you can't amneisty all 3, they have an old roster, no picks. They're best 2 young players are Hill and Clark, Kobe will be 35 next year. Can anyone see why Howard would come back? he wants to be on a winner in his prime, not playing with this old dysfunctional roster, so after Howard leaves, you have an old Kobe bitching non stop playing with Clark and Hill to look forward to? this is gonna be a very tough situation.....once they lose Howard may have to keep Gasol, then this roster with MWP and Nash is still gonna suffer on the floor. They may struggle to reach .500 next few seasons.

1) Gasol is not signed for 2 more years as Nash is.
2) MWP is also not signed for 2 more years.
3) You are saying after, not if Howard leaves... Where do you think he will sign? He wants to be in a large market, have a chance to win a championship and to be the man. What team with $20m in cap space fits that criteria. With his injuries this season do you think Dwight will walk away from $30m in guaranteed money from the Lakers?
4) Kobe doesn't bitch non-stop. Please... He expects his teammates to play to their potential. Have you ever heard Kobe challenge Ebanks or Duhon? He challenges the stars on his team.
5) The Lakers have less then $10m in salaries for the 2014-15 season. They can sign two max players in the next two years.

tj so going forward you like the position they are in? Howard is not going to resign with them, Howard doesn't like to be bitched at.....his father even chimed in.