The Lakers' Season after Starting 1-4

worcester wrote:AS MUCH AS i'VE disliked the Lakers over the years, especially as they've neared the Celts 17 NBA championships, I've also admired them greatly. It wasn't just the players who made the Lakers great. It was the rock solid organization, much like the Celts under Red and Walter Brown and then Danny and Wyc. Now I actually feel sorry for them. The players are still very, very talented. However the organization doesn't deserve to wash their jockstraps after a game. Such a difference from Jerry to Jim Buss. The Lakers problems all devolve to one man - Jim Buss. He makes one wrong decision after another and it costs the Lakers. Is anyone surprised that the Lakers D has taken a wrong turn under coach D'Antoni?

By the way, my son and daughter-in-law had a baby boy at 5:11 this morning. So now I've got three grandsons and two sons, enough to field a bball team in a few years.

worcester,

Congratulations on filling out your back court. I'm assuming your sons will be "the bigs".

Happy Days, happy days, happy days...


bob


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worcester wrote:AS MUCH AS i'VE disliked the Lakers over the years, especially as they've neared the Celts 17 NBA championships, I've also admired them greatly. It wasn't just the players who made the Lakers great. It was the rock solid organization, much like the Celts under Red and Walter Brown and then Danny and Wyc. Now I actually feel sorry for them. The players are still very, very talented. However the organization doesn't deserve to wash their jockstraps after a game. Such a difference from Jerry to Jim Buss. The Lakers problems all devolve to one man - Jim Buss. He makes one wrong decision after another and it costs the Lakers. Is anyone surprised that the Lakers D has taken a wrong turn under coach D'Antoni?

By the way, my son and daughter-in-law had a baby boy at 5:11 this morning. So now I've got three grandsons and two sons, enough to field a bball team in a few years.

Congrats worcester!
I hope he is a healthy and happy little guy.

Thanks TJ and Bob, Yes he's a happy camper. Baby Ben. Another Celtic jersey to buy for Christmas.

bobheckler wrote:Latest rumor is Gasol for Josh Smith.

bob

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bob,

I haven't heard any "real" rumors of Pau for Josh Smith.
I am not too sure either team would make that trade at this point.
Maybe in a few weeks after they have heard what other offers are out there.

Josh would help the Lakers with defense and athleticism, but he doesn't fit the 'stretch 4' pf that would work better for D'Antoni's offense.

worcester wrote:AS MUCH AS i'VE disliked the Lakers over the years, especially as they've neared the Celts 17 NBA championships, I've also admired them greatly. It wasn't just the players who made the Lakers great. It was the rock solid organization, much like the Celts under Red and Walter Brown and then Danny and Wyc. Now I actually feel sorry for them. The players are still very, very talented. However the organization doesn't deserve to wash their jockstraps after a game. Such a difference from Jerry to Jim Buss. The Lakers problems all devolve to one man - Jim Buss. He makes one wrong decision after another and it costs the Lakers. Is anyone surprised that the Lakers D has taken a wrong turn under coach D'Antoni?

By the way, my son and daughter-in-law had a baby boy at 5:11 this morning. So now I've got three grandsons and two sons, enough to field a bball team in a few years.

Congrants on the newborn...... !! Now you just need to fill out the bench !!

PS: I could NEVER feel sorry for the lakers or their fans. NEVER. Love to see them loose almost as I like a Celtic win. Even more than a Heat loss although the Heat are now a close second to LA on my short list. As you may recall my original "name" on BDC was beatLA but due to mustanggator I shortened it to just beat. The beat LA comes for the chant in the garden many years ago as the C's were losing late in game 7 of the east finals to Philly......the fans began to chant to the 76er's BEAT LA BEAT LA over and over. Still think it was about the greatest cheer for an opponent that I can remember sort of saying well we can't be there to do it so you guys do it for us!!

worcester wrote:AS MUCH AS i'VE disliked the Lakers over the years, especially as they've neared the Celts 17 NBA championships, I've also admired them greatly. It wasn't just the players who made the Lakers great. It was the rock solid organization, much like the Celts under Red and Walter Brown and then Danny and Wyc. Now I actually feel sorry for them. The players are still very, very talented. However the organization doesn't deserve to wash their jockstraps after a game. Such a difference from Jerry to Jim Buss. The Lakers problems all devolve to one man - Jim Buss. He makes one wrong decision after another and it costs the Lakers. Is anyone surprised that the Lakers D has taken a wrong turn under coach D'Antoni?

By the way, my son and daughter-in-law had a baby boy at 5:11 this morning. So now I've got three grandsons and two sons, enough to field a bball team in a few years.

hey worse congratulations thats great, enjoyed meeting/hanging with you at the first playoff party a few years ago, hope one of these days we can catch up again.

Lakers lose again, poor team has no depth, can't believe they haven't signed K Mart and Delonte West yet, what is Jim Buss waiting for? Team has no depth, starting point Chris Duhon had 2 points and 2 assists in 33 minutes, bench shot a woeful 5-18 form field....Kobe and Howard and Mettaidiot all did their job, they played well enough to win, but everywhere else is so weak. They're talking about getting rid of Gasol? right now they need him so bad. D'Antoni clueless, still no sight of his offense, he knows they don't have personel to run, every team beats them easily in transition, if they can't run his offense, what use is he? don't get me started on the defense!!!

cowens/oldschool wrote:Lakers lose again, poor team has no depth, can't believe they haven't signed K Mart and Delonte West yet, what is Jim Buss waiting for? Team has no depth, starting point Chris Duhon had 2 points and 2 assists in 33 minutes, bench shot a woeful 5-18 form field....Kobe and Howard and Mettaidiot all did their job, they played well enough to win, but everywhere else is so weak. They're talking about getting rid of Gasol? right now they need him so bad. D'Antoni clueless, still no sight of his offense, he knows they don't have personel to run, every team beats them easily in transition, if they can't run his offense, what use is he? don't get me started on the defense!!!

Duhon and Morris are absolutely killing the Lakers. Two point guards couldn't have done much of a worse job directing an offense then what Duhon and Morris did tonight.
If you watched tonights game, this is not at all Mike D'Antoni's offense.
When Dwight sets a pick for Duhon, he never goes to the basket, he goes toward the sideline and has to pass the ball.
Of course a team looks like they have no depth when two of their best 4 players are not playing and neither is Steve Blake.
The Lakers are 1-12 in games decided by 10 points or less.
I clearly see a 10+ point differential when Nash comes back compared to the historic ineptness from Duhon and Morris.
The Lakers cannot win games when they have 18 turnovers, miss FT's and get terrible guard play.

The point in trading Gasol is for depth.
They need 2 or 3 players that are a better fit.

I know you love to bash Kobe for every 9-24 game he has, but he was great tonight, as he has been almost the whole season.

I am very disappointed in the outcomes of these games.
It is getting embarrassing when they are such a punching bag on the court and in the media.
I will go on the record and say that I still expect the Lakers to play great basketball, hopefully in a few weeks.

Getting back to the point guards, I was so wrong about Darius Morris.
I thought he would turn into the Lakers back up this season.
He is clumsy and has no idea how to run an offense.
Is there really nobody in the D-League that could run an offense better then Morris for 12 minutes per game?

Couldn't happen to a better bunch of guys.

tj

I agree with everything you said and I said Kobe played well enough to win, that the loss wasn't on him. I agree that this offense doesn't look anything like D'Antoni, right now its Kobe carrying them doing whatever he wants....you'd think even without Nash there would be some semblence of a D'Antoni offense, but tonite I saw none of it. They are playing with no purpose on both ends, thats actually a kind statement considering the state of their defense. D'Antoni really has no clue how to coach any facet of defense....did you hear Big Game James rip the defense?

cow

cowens/oldschool wrote:D'Antoni really has no clue how to coach any facet of defense....

Never has, never will. And since the Lakers dont have the horses to run an uptempo offense, he is already sucking wind.

Bad Defensive Coach. Mismatched offensive coach. Has never won a game of any consequence in his life.....dont see how in the world anyone can think DAntoni was a good choice.

mrkleen09 wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:D'Antoni really has no clue how to coach any facet of defense....

Never has, never will. And since the Lakers dont have the horses to run an uptempo offense, he is already sucking wind.

Bad Defensive Coach. Mismatched offensive coach. Has never won a game of any consequence in his life.....dont see how in the world anyone can think DAntoni was a good choice.

poor Dwight, hes trying, but rest of parts so out of synch, the defense was already not too good pre D'Nodefoni, now its so bad, every pundit, commentator, fan, anyone not blind can see how bad it is.....and D'Nodefoni has not done one thing, its gotten alot alot worse, clueless in denial, hes lost them, no strategy, no fundamentals, no motivation.....no mas. Commentator said on Verajos hitting clinching wide open shot, he had time to read the newspaper and drink his coffee before and during shot. Breakdown after breakdown after breakdown

Hi,
I watched the last 8-9 min of the game last night. What can I say, it was sad, very sad show. On LAL side, that is.
I have suspicion that it all started at the ownership level then it trickled down in the form of hiring Brown then firing him after 5 games into a season, then hiring D'Antoni. The last part would probably be OK but, as everybody and their uncle suggest, the current roster is not suited for his system.
I wonder if it'd be better for LAL trade Gasol for whoever+ couple picks, amnesty Kobe, tank the season and start rebuilding...

AK

Sinus

You call it sad, I call it entertaining......... love it when they loose. And to a 4 win Cleveland team. The little I saw Cavs got pretty much what they wanted all night. If not for Kobe and DH keeping it close this would have been a 20+ point loss.

Right now Gasol would get nowhere near the value of his salary. Be a hard trade to make as few teams would give up much. He's on the downswing of his career and "damaged goods" righ now.

If he could come back and play a few "good" games then perhaps but then the dilemma....."he's playing good so why trade him."

And the Nash part of the equation.........

I know I'm no Dr but still he's missed how much now and how much more will he miss............ seems pretty serious to me. He hasn't been able to run so what shape will he be in when he finally does return. Yeah he's a smart heady player but a player that is very old by NBA standards. Too think he will make that big a difference is very questionable. He isn't going to be playing 40 MPG. He's played about 33-35 mpg over the past several years, and to play 30+ now might be a stretch. Learning new players too although his bread and butter the pick and role should be easy to adjust to anyone. Would Kobe give up touches for Nash to run things? Nash without the ball is not going to do to much. Guess that will be an issue when the time comes for it to be one cause right now he isn't playing and there is no sign of that changing soon.

beat

sinus007 wrote:Hi,
I watched the last 8-9 min of the game last night. What can I say, it was sad, very sad show. On LAL side, that is.
I have suspicion that it all started at the ownership level then it trickled down in the form of hiring Brown then firing him after 5 games into a season, then hiring D'Antoni. The last part would probably be OK but, as everybody and their uncle suggest, the current roster is not suited for his system.
I wonder if it'd be better for LAL trade Gasol for whoever+ couple picks, amnesty Kobe, tank the season and start rebuilding...

AK

Why in the world would LA amnesty Kobe this summer?
He is the best shooting guard in the NBA. So, LA should just let him go to another team?
Do you know how much money he brings to the Lakers as far as ticket sales, promotions, merchandise sales, advertising sales?
That would be the absolute worst thing for LA to do on and off the court.

Nash and D'Antoni go hand and hand.
How can you say that this roster is not suited for D'Antoni's system when Nash hasn't played a game for Mike since he was hired.
Nash was the #1 most efficient pg in pick and roll offense last year and I believe Dwight was the #1 center.
It obviously isn't working under Duhon and Morris.

Kobe and Howard are trying to carry the Lakers by themselves. That's because they have no choice, everybody else is either injured or useless.

Kyrie Irving has burned us more than once, he's turning into one helluva player, so I'm not surprised about last night. Let's be honest, the return of Nash and Blake wouldn't have had any effect on his performance. None.

TAFKARA was 5-12. After Kobe's 16-28, he was #2 in fg%. Everybody else, including Howard, sucked. You can't win like that.

Howard took 22 of the Lakers 40ftas. He made 13 (59%). That's a very good night for him, and that pretty much sums up how to defend against him.

Jamison had one good game. He is struggling dealing with coming off the bench for the first time in his career.

Jodie Meeks has gone off once, the same game Jamison did. I don't know why not, he's a shooter.

Nash's return should make for a more coherent halfcourt offense, but it won't have much effect on the full court game (it has been a few years since he has been a full court player) and it will make the perimeter defense worse. Worse perimeter defense = more fouls on Howard. Will Nash execute Antoni's playbook better, like a coach on the court? Absolutely, but the player Antoni is coaching today is a shadow of the one he coached in Phoenix. Time waits for no man, and that includes soon-to-be 39 year old Steve Nash. He can't get up and down now like he could with Amar'e and Marion and Barbosa. Besides, what if Nash could still run? Who would run with him? This is the same problem the Celtics had last year, nobody to run with Rondo. Simply put, the pieces for the Antoni-Nash connection to work like it used to aren't there.

If Gasol is traded in the relatively near future, as in before he's back to 100%, the Lakers won't get good value. If they wait until he's back and playing at his old level before trading him, the season may be gone.

Kobe is giving a "Horatius at the Bridge" performance, but he's not a player whose style of play elevates his teammates, other than through personal effort and performance. His style is generally about him (and barking at others). That's why he's the best closer in the game, but isn't getting it done here. Publicly berating your teammates doesn't elevate them.

Howard likes to smile and laugh and clown around, both on the court and off. When he gets frustrated, he stops, and starts looking for ways to smile and laugh and clown around again. That's him. Understandably, he's not smiling much now (it'd be pretty damn weird if he was). When Kobe becomes frustrated, he gets ornery. He tells the media that Gasol has to "put on his big boy pants". He tells the media that he talked to Howard before he came and told him that he, Kobe, was going to tell him what to do.

Celtic fans are concerned because we have no true point guard behind Rondo. We do, however, have JET who can play some point (although that is not his forte), Bradley who can play some point (although that is definitely not his forte) and Barbosa who can play some point (although that is not his forte). The Lakers have nobody behind almost 39 year old Steve Nash. My opinion of Steve Blake is, I believe, quite well known by now. Meeks is not a point guard at all. Morris and Duhon are not getting it done, obviously. What this says to me is that the Lakers season hangs on a senior citizen, since their coach is offensively oriented, and not defensively oriented.

Last night, Kobe said "I'm one of the fastest guys on the team and I'm like 50. What does that tell you?" BEFORE THE GAME, Mike Antoni said the Lakers seemed to be missing a "spirit to win". After the game he said "We played very uninspired basketball, offensively and defensively. We play at a very slow pace and we struggle. Maybe it shifts over to defense. Maybe we're slow. Maybe we can't do it. It's my job to fix it - and that's what I'll do." Well, IMO, if you say before the game you lack spirit to win, and then they go out and play spiritlessly, whatever you're doing (or trying to do by saying that) isn't working. Note how he talked about the spiritlessness relating to offense and then saying it might shift to defense. Why is the Lakers defense struggling? Maybe it's because it's an afterthought to their head coach and didn't Dim Buss fire Mike Brown because he was disappointed in the Lakers' defense?

They are slow. They were slow last year, highlighted by how OKC blow torched them in the playoffs. They didn't get faster this year. Why would Dim Buss think that bringing in a high-octane, run-and-gun, score-in-8-seconds-or-less coach would change that? He has the horses you gave him, Dimbo.

Kobe Bryant is averaging 37.6mpg season-to-date. His career average is 36.5mpg. If Antoni doesn't sit down Kobe down more often there won't be much left of him come playoffs. Unfortunately, I don't think he realistically can until some of his injured players come back, his bench just cannot be trusted to pick up any of the slack.

In the bigger picture, if they end up having a bad year (and I think it can only get better from here, but if they still continue to struggle), you have to wonder about Dwight Howard's future. He can walk after this year. If he thinks the Lakers are too old/slow and doesn't want to be caught up in a rebuilding effort, if Kobe chewing on him and everybody else gets old, he might look for other pastures, where he'll be able to smile and laugh and clown around again. It has happened before, hasn't it? I hope he doesn't head for "Greener" pastures, Hack-a-Howard is not something I'd like to witness on a regular basis either. Remember how we had to play 4-on-5 on offense when Perk was here? This would be worse, I think, since opposing teams would ignore Perk. They'll swarm Howard and foul him without mercy, just like they do now, just like they did in Orlando and our offense would become very choppy and filled with empty possessions in clutch time and clutch time is championship play time.

A sliver of silver lining there, IF that happens, is that they didn't lose much in trading Bynum for him, given Bynum hasn't suited up this season yet at all. It was considered a coup that the Lakers didn't have to give up Gasol to get Bynum. In retrospect, that might have been the time to get the most value for him. Oh well, hindsight is always 20/20.

They are only 2 games out of the playoffs, at #12 in the tightly-bunched WC. A rally could easily get them into the playoffs, and then veterans rise to the top.

Just like we do.

It is WAY too soon to start shoveling dirt on the Los Angeles Lakers, but they have to start getting a clue first. They don't even have that yet.



bob


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Even though Nash is a lousy defender, getting him back will help the Lakers' defense a lot in one key area -- points off turnovers. With Nash, the offense will run much better and the Lakers will have fewer turnovers. Opponents getting easy baskets off turnovers is killing the Lakers.

Should the Lakers be playing better? Of course. But they have so many strikes against them at the moment that it's not surprising that they're not.

They have four key new players -- Dwight, Nash, Jamison, and Meeks.

Nash is still out.

Gasol is out and wasn't healthy when he was in.

Bob, if you think Blake is bad, you should get a load of Duhon and Morris playing the point.

They went through training camp not only with new personnel, but with everyone learning a completely different, difficult offense. When you get new players, one key point you can leverage is that the holdover players know the offense and can teach it to the new guys, but not only was half the rotation new, the whole system was new.

Now D'Antoni comes in without the benefit of training camp, the exhibition season, or even that many practices, and has to implement his system with its most important component (Nash) out and Gasol hurt.

This was going to take time even without a new offense, a new coach, and all the injuries. Anyone watching the Lakers should be reminded to see them in April. It's only December.

Bob

But I got my shovel ready !
And I cannot lie, I threw a couple shovelfulls already.

beat

beat wrote:Bob

But I got my shovel ready !
And I cannot lie, I threw a couple shovelfulls already.

beat

beat,

I'd suggest you save you energy and focus on the short-term. See if you can throw a few onto NY, Miami and Brooklyn. If we don't get past them, we won't have to worry about the Lakers or the Spurs or the Thunder or anybody else.


bob


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beat wrote:Bob

But I got my shovel ready !
And I cannot lie, I threw a couple shovelfulls already.

beat

I got a laugh out of that. Thanks, Beat. You've always got your Laker shovel ready. You probably have Kobe's picture on the dog's pooper scooper.

Beat:

Your post script, "Let's not wait another 22 years," is ominous.We've already waited another five. Does that mean we have seventeen more years to wait?

MD!

Bob

The long term history with the lakers superceeds anything I am presently building against the heat and the knicks. Nothing "short term" as you put it can change that. If we can't win seeing them (lakers) self destruct is about the next best thing. Knicks are playing better no doubt but they are still the Knicks and haven't done anything in how long? I final with Ewing and prior to that had to go to those great teams in the early 70's. And it is still very easy to dislike James....can't stant those phoney (phone) commercials.

Outside,

Naw no pooper scooper..... we have a cat. And it's Marcus's job to clean the litter box. But if I did have one I do like your idea !!



And MD

5 is a lot less than 22.
And it's funny you should bring that up the other day I was trying to change it and couldn't figure out how to get to it!! So I said heck with it.

beat

beat wrote:Bob

The long term history with the lakers superceeds anything I am presently building against the heat and the knicks. Nothing "short term" as you put it can change that. If we can't win seeing them (lakers) self destruct is about the next best thing. Knicks are playing better no doubt but they are still the Knicks and haven't done anything in how long? I final with Ewing and prior to that had to go to those great teams in the early 70's. And it is still very easy to dislike James....can't stant those phoney (phone) commercials.

Outside,

Naw no pooper scooper..... we have a cat. And it's Marcus's job to clean the litter box. But if I did have one I do like your idea !!



And MD

5 is a lot less than 22.
And it's funny you should bring that up the other day I was trying to change it and couldn't figure out how to get to it!! So I said heck with it.

beat

beat,

How about "Let's not wait another 2.2 years"?


:-)


bob


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WOW Melo killing Lakers, Lakers gave up 41 points in the first quarter!!! why does D'Antoni look stunned whenever reporters question his defensive awareness/strategy? his defensive reputation is well deserved.

cowens/oldschool wrote:WOW Melo killing Lakers, Lakers gave up 41 points in the first quarter!!! why does D'Antoni look stunned whenever reporters question his defensive awareness/strategy? his defensive reputation is well deserved.

Looks like a defensive struggle to me..... I do mean the defense is struggling !!

beat