Re: If Still Available @ 6, Should Danny pick Embiid?

by **swedeinestonia** Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:04 am

Not only could Boston possibly be afford to let him rest for a year but also another team might also be interested in doing so. Embiid could possibly be a good chip in a trade for Asik? Houston could then get future center value for Asik and Embiid could learn/progress under Howard. So Embiid+"other stuff that houston wants/needs" might work better and feel better for Houston than them just getting wings/pfs/draft picks.

by **k_j_88** Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:15 am

steve3344 wrote:The speculation is over!

Celtics draft Embiid:

http://www.csnne.com/boston-celtics/blakelys-nba-mock-draft-100-cs-take-chance-embiid?p=ya5nbcs&ocid=yahoo

Well then, that settles it. Blakely sure has his eyes on the ball this time around.

KJ

by **worcester** Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:56 am

So velly intelesting. First consideration is the structuire of Embiid's foot. If he has Yao Ming St. Louis high arches, then no. Danny should be able to find that out quickly. If he doesn't suffer from a structural predisposition, then this could be a blessing in disguise, and I would be very inclined to draft him. Here's why.

Most young big men put their knees at risk by playing way too many NBA games while their leg bones are still growing and consolidating. Oden is a perfect example. Bynum is another. With shorter guards who are lighter it's not such a big deal. Taller, heavier centers need time to settle into their growth. Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain both had 4 years in college to let their skeletons solidify before launching into the grueling 82+ game NBA schedule. Wilt played his first year with the Globetrotters - not that many games and not that intense. He was 23 when he started playing in the NBA. Russ was 22.

If we draft Embiid and allow him to sit/rehab for 9 months, he will be 21 years old. That's adequate for him to consolidate his growth and recover from whatever injuries he has. I can't imagine Danny pushing him onto the court before he's fully recovered. Look at how conservatively he handled Rajon's recovery. So yes, I would draft Embiid and consider this injury a blessing for him personally and a blessing for the Celts if he falls to #6.

That said, I still prefer experienced players to draft prospects, so if we could trade him for a decent center ++...who knows?

by **cowens/oldschool** Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:19 am

worse you called it perfect, its all in the arches, do your diligence Danny.

by **beat** Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:36 am

worcester wrote:So velly intelesting. First consideration is the structuire of Embiid's foot. If he has Yao Ming St. Louis high arches, then no. Danny should be able to find that out quickly. If he doesn't suffer from a structural predisposition, then this could be a blessing in disguise, and I would be very inclined to draft him. Here's why.

Most young big men put their knees at risk by playing way too many NBA games while their leg bones are still growing and consolidating. Oden is a perfect example. Bynum is another. With shorter guards who are lighter it's not such a big deal. Taller, heavier centers need time to settle into their growth. Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain both had 4 years in college to let their skeletons solidify before launching into the grueling 82+ game NBA schedule. Wilt played his first year with the Globetrotters - not that many games and not that intense. He was 23 when he started playing in the NBA. Russ was 22.

If we draft Embiid and allow him to sit/rehab for 9 months, he will be 21 years old. That's adequate for him to consolidate his growth and recover from whatever injuries he has. I can't imagine Danny pushing him onto the court before he's fully recovered. Look at how conservatively he handled Rajon's recovery. So yes, I would draft Embiid and consider this injury a blessing for him personally and a blessing for the Celts if he falls to #6.

That said, I still prefer experienced players to draft prospects, so if we could trade him for a decent center ++...who knows?

And to add seasons were not 82 games when they started, although the 2 (Wilt and Russ) played most minutes in those games, and the play offs were not 4 rounds either

by **bobheckler** Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:40 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:worse you called it perfect, its all in the arches, do your diligence Danny.

cow,

The Golden Arches...

At this point, I would think that Arn Tellem would be a little more open and cooperative with letting other GMs look at his client. Before he had everything to lose by opening the kimono too much. Now, he needs to reassure front offices that they're not being sold a bill of goods.

Bill Simmons, who has admittedly turned into a caricature of himself, says that Arn Tellem will try to steer Embiid to Boston or LA. How does he do that? Well, he could just refuse to provide medical reports to Philly, Orlando and Utah but give them to Danny and Mitch (Cleveland and Milwaukee had a deal that Cleveland would do the medical on Embiid and share it with Milwaukee and Milwaukee would reciprocate with, I think, Jabari Parker. So both of those teams already know all about Embiid's foot and arches).

If, however, Danny tries to trade up to get Embiid, then Milwaukee or Philly will suspect Danny knows something and may refuse to trade picks and take Embiid themselves. Orlando is said to be willing to take a chance on Embiid either way. Would Utah take a chance at #5? They have Enes Kanter and Rudy Gobert at center now. Drafting Embiid would make Gobert expendable.

Gobert is 7'2", 245#, 7'8 1/2" wingspan, 21 years old. He only averaged 9.6mpg for Utah last year, so I'm sure that Embiid would look real good to them.

bob

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by **bobheckler** Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:55 am

http://www.csnne.com/boston-celtics/source-magic-jazz-stand-between-cs-embiid

Source: Magic, Jazz stand between C's & Embiid
June 20, 2014, 5:30 pm

If Still Available @ 6, Should Danny pick Embiid? - Page 2 Byline-blakely-cdc

If Still Available @ 6, Should Danny pick Embiid? - Page 2 Byline-blakely-cdc

BOSTON — Of the five teams ahead of the Celtics in next week's draft, league sources believe only two - Orlando and Utah - appear to be major hurdles between them and the opportunity to draft Joel Embiid.

Once the consensus favorite to be drafted with the No. 1 overall pick, Embiid has a broken bone in his right foot that is expected to result in him falling a few spots in the draft this Thursday, and more significant, will keep him sidelined for months to start the season.

Yahoo Sports! reported on Friday that Embiid had two screws inserted in his navicular bone on his right foot, and will be sidelined for at least four months which puts his return at the earliest, at the start of the season.

Cleveland, which has the No. 1 overall pick for the second year in a row and third in the past four years, is eager to draft a player that can make an immediate impact and help get them to the playoffs for the first time in the post-LeBron James era.

Throw in the fact that Embiid's latest setback is similar to one that beset former Cavs all-star Zydrunas Illgauskas, and it becomes pretty clear that Cleveland isn't interested in a potential repeat.

For the Cavs, the safe bet at No. 1 - and that's assuming they keep the pick which they have been looking to part with for weeks - would be to draft Embiid's Kansas teammate Andrew Wiggins.

"[Jabari] Parker's numbers will be better at the start, but Wiggins projects to be a slightly better player long-term," said an Eastern Conference scout.

At No. 2, the Milwaukee Bucks are desperate to add a high-impact player and were torn between Wiggins and Parker (although sources on Thursday said they were leaning more towards Wiggins than Parker).

That's because the Bucks have a rim-protecting big man in Larry Sanders, and another promising young big man in John Henson, along with the versatile Ersan Ilyasova.

But they need an impact player now, and it appears that player will be Parker.

With Embiid's injury, Australian guard Dante Exum should move into the top three of the draft.

Sixers coach Brett Brown spent more than a decade coaching in Australia, and is familiar with the 19-year-old's game.

And while Exum on the surface doesn't seem a natural fit with a Sixers backcourt that includes rookie of the year Michael Carter-Williams, together they would pose mismatch problems because of their length.

Things will get interesting when the Orlando Magic are on the clock at No. 4.

They could use some additional help in the frontcourt to go with center Nikola Vucevic, but they need the help now which Embiid likely won't be able to provide.

Orlando has other needs such as upgrading their point guard situation, although they may look to do that with their second, first-round pick (No. 12 overall).

More than likely, the Magic will turn to the player they believe has the most upside who can play some immediately.

That's where Haverhill, Mass., native and former Indiana forward/center Noah Vonleh comes in.

He has showcased a wider set of skills than expected which has led to his stock in the eyes of many teams, including Orlando, rising.

Vonleh and Kentucky's Julius Randle are the most likely targets for Orlando if they elect to pass on Embiid.

That leaves the Utah Jazz who like most teams in the lottery, have several areas in need of addressing.

They have a talented 1-2 frontcourt tandem of Derrick Favors and Enest Kanter in addition to 7-foot-3 center Rudy Gobert.

So, the need for them to add another center who won't play for months, doesn't help them address any of their immediate needs.

But Embiid is a special talent in the eyes of many. And with Utah hiring Quinn Snyder as their new head coach earlier this month, patience is something the Jazz will indeed be preaching with its players and fans.

However, an opportunity to land a player such as Randle, Aaron Gordon or Marcus Smart, who each could come in and contribute right away, will likely be too tempting for the Utah brass to pass on.

And that leaves the Celtics at No. 6, primed to potentially add the one player with the greatest amount of potential in this draft.

Even if Embiid had to miss most or all of this upcoming season, the Celtics aren't going to make enough moves this season to be a title contender anyway.

Embiid would position the Celtics going forward with a much-desired rim protector, something they have desperately wanted to add to their roster for years but have consistently failed to do so.

"This draft has some All-Stars, but Embiid has the potential be more than an All-Star, but a superstar for many years," a league executive told CSNNE.com. "There's only one player in this draft that you can look at now and say, talent-wise, he has the potential to be a franchise player. That's Joel Embiid."

Still, the back injury that forced him to miss the latter part of his freshman year at Kansas followed by his most recent setback with his right foot, makes him a bigger risk than any player in this draft.

But the same is true of the potential reward that a player of Embiid's caliber can bring to a team such as Boston, which is looking to avoid a repeat of last season's center-by-committee approach and even more important, move closer toward regaining a spot among the NBA's elite.

bob

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by **cowens/oldschool** Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:22 pm

Does anyone know what was Michael Jordan's foot injury his second year, wondering if it was that same nav bone? The Bulls were so against Jordan playing that year, I'd say he recovered pretty well.

by **KyleCleric** Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:00 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:Does anyone know what was Michael Jordan's foot injury his second year, wondering if it was that same nav bone? The Bulls were so against Jordan playing that year, I'd say he recovered pretty well.

http://www2.kusports.com/news/2014/jun/20/joel-embiids-injury-could-prove-costly/
according to this article, it's the same injury

It should be noted Michael Jordan had the same injury his second year in the NBA and went on to a Hall of Fame career. Another successful comeback according to ESPN’s Kevin Pelton was made by Kevin McHale, who played with a broken navicular bone in the 1987 playoffs, then had surgery and missed the first month of the 1987-88 season. After that, he played in 64 of 68 games and missed just four total over the following two seasons.

by **cowens/oldschool** Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:52 pm

Thanks Kyle, I love Kevin McHale, missing just 4 games in 2 seasons after playing with that broken foot, forgot how tough he was, gotta love the guy.... Wade never would have done that, fockin pussy.

by **bobheckler** Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:29 am

http://www.csnne.com/boston-celtics/celtics-view-embiids-medical-records

If Still Available @ 6, Should Danny pick Embiid? - Page 2 Byline-blakely-cdc

Celtics to view Embiid's medical records

WALTHAM, Mass. — Only a select number of teams will get a glimpse at Joel Embiid's medical records and the Celtics will apparently be one of them, according to a league source.

Embiid underwent surgery on Friday to repair a fracture to the navicular bone in his right foot, an injury that will sideline him for at least four months.

Boston, which has the Nos. 6 and 17 picks in the first round of the NBA Draft on Thursday night, is expected to get some information relative to Embiid's most recent injury, but full access to his medical records is unlikely.

Austin Ainge, Boston's director of player personnel, had little to say when asked what the Celtics knew about Embiid's injury.

"Probably best not to share all of that," Ainge said. "I think we all want to know exactly what it is."

A consensus Top-3 pick prior to the injury, there's a growing sense that Embiid will slide down a few spots in next week's draft and potentially be there for the Celtics at No. 6.

"Even when you have a lot of information, sometimes it's still just a best guess," Ainge said. "So, I'm not sure what the conclusions will be by the doctors."

Still, the additional information no matter how small, will help bring into focus the kind of player the Celtics might be looking at, health-wise.

"Statistical models never measure health and character, guys get in trouble or don't work hard or the money gets to them," Ainge said. "We can't predict those things on the court. Nor, can we really predict it when we get to know the kids, so those are always wild-cards."

However, Boston has a recent track record of success when it comes to drafting players with a less-than-ideal health status.

In 2010, Avery Bradley's pre-draft workout tour was cut short because of a left ankle sprain. Because of his athleticism, Bradley was expected to significantly improve his draft stock in workouts and emerge as a lottery (top-14) pick. Instead, he fell to Boston at No. 19.

And in 2012, Jared Sullinger was considered a top-five prospect before being red-flagged for a back injury that saw him plummet to the Celtics at No. 21.

Bradley had come in for a workout for the Celtics, so the Celtics medical staff was able to get a much more accurate reading on where he was and where he projected, health-wise.

But Sullinger was different.

"With Jared, we were just emailed and sent things," Ainge said. "So, it's different. You just do the best you can."

It's unclear what information Embiid's camp will allow the Celtics to have access to, making it all that much tougher for them to get a feel for whether he's worth the risk at No. 6.

And while much has been said about Bradley and Sullinger, there have been other players in the past leading up to the draft that the Celtics' medical staff told the basketball ops folks to pass on.

"Our medical staff told us to pass on Greg Oden," Ainge said. "Our medical staff told us to pass on Brandon Roy."

Oden has been plagued by knee injuries throughout his career, showing no signs of ever living up to the lofty expectations that come with a player selected with the No. 1 overall pick in the 2007 NBA Draft.

Boston had the worst record in the league that season and were expected to choose between Oden and Texas' Kevin Durant.

The Celtics have maintained for years that they would have taken Durant over Oden if they had the No. 1 pick that year, primarily because the team's medical staff made them aware of the risks involved in taking Oden which they deemed as being too great.

Boston wound up with the No. 5 pick which the Celtics used to select Jeff Green. That pick was soon traded to Seattle (now Oklahoma City) as part of the deal which brought former UConn star Ray Allen back to New England as a member of the Celtics.

Roy had some solid years in the NBA, earning all-star honors three times after being selected by Minnesota (and immediately traded to Portland) with the sixth overall pick in 2006.

However, his career ended after just six NBA seasons due to a degenerative knee condition.

"It ended up costing them [Portland] a lot of money in the end, but he did give them a great few years," Ainge said. "So, there's two [Bradley and Sullinger] that we've taken chances on. There's been many, many others we've decided not to take a chance on."

In addition to the medical records and feedback from their own doctors, the Celtics also factor in recovery time.

"We try to focus on the long-term health, more than the short term when you're dealing with draft picks," Ainge said. "Free agents might be a little different. But when you're drafting kids that are 19, 20, 21, it's usually best to think two years, five years down the road, will it be a concern. And those are the ones we usually try to avoid."

With Embiid's right foot injury, the risk is a major concern when you consider others who have had similar injuries in the past - Cleveland's Zydrunas Illgauskas, Houston's Yao Ming and former Celtic Bill Walton - were hampered for significant stretches of their career because of the injury.

And when you consider Embiid's freshman season at Kansas was cut short because of a back injury, the Celtics drafting Embiid would indeed be the biggest gamble taken by this franchise under Danny Ainge's watch.

"Foot and back. Those are not good body parts to injure [for a big man]," Ainge said.

As much as Austin's father, Celtics president of basketball operations Danny Ainge, has been fearless when it comes to drafting players with injuries, the call on Embiid may ultimately be determined by the team's medical staff.

"Yeah, [Celtics team doctor] Brian McKeon, step up to the plate," quipped Austin Ainge.

bob

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by **bobheckler** Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:06 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:Does anyone know what was Michael Jordan's foot injury his second year, wondering if it was that same nav bone? The Bulls were so against Jordan playing that year, I'd say he recovered pretty well.

cow,

A slightly different answer to your question:

Sign Of Things To Come?

Joel Embiid is the latest in a long line of NBA big men with injuries to the navicular bone in their foot. For Yao Ming, Eric Montross and Bill Walton, the injury ended their careers.

Notable NBA Big Men With
Stress Fracture/Navicular Foot Injury

Year(s)-----Player--------------------Games Missed
2014--------Joel Embiid---------------?
2013-14-----Brendan Haywood--------97
2009-11-----Yao Ming----------------159*
2006--------Kurt Thomas-------------29
2002-03-----Eric Montross------------82*
2002-03-----Jerome James------------27
96-97/99-01-Zydrunas Ilgauskas-------202
1987-88-----Bill Walton---------------82*
1987--------Kevin McHale------------14
*- Did Not Play Again After Injury
--ESPN Stats & Information

Kevin McHale, obviously, had a great career after that. Bill Walton didn't have the kind of mind-blowing career he could have had if not for the foot problems, but he still made it into the HOF. Yao Ming had a MUCH shortened career, but that seems to be related to his high arches, which are not correctable. Z lost the equivalent of 2 1/2 years, but that was over a 13-year career with most of them earlier in his career. From age 26 on, his last 10 years in the league (when you would think his body would be breaking down more often) he averaged 73 games/year. 73 games/year over 10 years. Not bad.

All in all, not as scary as all that. The Ghost Of Oden's Past are with us, but how likely is that to happen again? Then again, as Austin Ainge pointed out "back and foot problems are not good signs for big men".

bob

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by **dboss** Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:12 am

I voted yes.

Overall the board is almost split down the middle.

I can appreciate the no votes. He could end up being that next great center that never was.

On the other hand we should not evaluate this process (all the picks and assets) based on a hit or miss here or there.

I think that it is a reasonable gamble to draft Embiid if he is there for the taking. If it turns out to be a bust I can live with that because we still have sufficient assets to still build this team into a contender.

dboss

by **bobheckler** Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:24 am

dboss wrote:I voted yes.

Overall the board is almost split down the middle.

I can appreciate the no votes. He could end up being that next great center that never was.

On the other hand we should not evaluate this process (all the picks and assets) based on a hit or miss here or there.

I think that it is a reasonable gamble to draft Embiid if he is there for the taking. If it turns out to be a bust I can live with that because we still have sufficient assets to still build this team into a contender.

dboss

dboss,

I couldn't have said it better. He's much more likely to be another Yao Ming or Bill Walton than a Montross. Would that be so bad?

If you're counting on rebuilding your team based upon one draft pick, you're nuts. OKC didn't build their team because they picked KD #2, they built it because they picked KD #2 in 2007, Russell Westbrook #4 and Jeff Green #5 (courtesy of the Celtics) in 2008 and James Harden #3 in 2009. That's a lot of high draft picks and they had to suck really bad for a bunch of years straight to do it. Thanks, but no thanks.

We've got draft picks up the ying-yang as far as the eye can see. Do we really want a team with 11 young'uns over the next 5 years? At least half those picks are there, specifically, as trade sweeteners, so use them, Danny!

bob

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by **bobheckler** Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:36 am

Technically, this isn't about Embiid. I'm just posting this to remind everybody what a crap shoot the draft is and why "building through the draft) is so problematic. Beasley was the #2 pick. You make your pick and you take your chances OR you trade your pick for a known quantity.

Report: LeBron James ‘was not pleased’ with Michael Beasley’s focus
Brett Pollakoff Jun 22, 2014, 11:00 AM EDT

The Heat gambled on two players no one would touch last season in Greg Oden and Michael Beasley, and neither one paid off in terms of being able to crack a rotation that desperately could have used some assistance.

Oden, of course, had a long history of knee injuries, but a back issue was what reportedly kept him from contributing meaningful minutes.

With Beasley, the problems have been on the mental side for quite some time. He was given too much too soon in Phoenix, and off the court troubles caused the Suns to waive him in early September. Beasley came into the league with the Heat, however, so the organization was comfortable in giving him a second shot since Erik Spoelstra and Dwyane Wade were there during the original stint.

But while Beasley appeared in 55 regular season contests, he played just six total minutes during Miami’s run to the Finals, before a 17-minute outing in Game 5 once the championship had already been lost. It was his lack of focus, more than anything, that caused the organization to lose trust.

From Gary Washburn of the Boston Globe:

The summer should be an interesting one for former second overall pick Michael Beasley, who is a free agent and is not likely to return to Miami after a disappointing second stint with the club. NBA sources said James was not pleased with Beasley’s focus and he lost the confidence of coach Erik Spoelstra shortly into the season. In one sequence that typified his career, Beasley swooped in for a tip-dunk in Game 5 of the NBA Finals. On the Spurs’ next possession, Beasley got lost on a pick-and-roll, allowing Diaw an open 3-pointer, which of course he swished. Beasley is likely to get a one-year deal on the open market and his past year in Miami did little to help his reputation.

Beasley might indeed get that one-year deal, mainly because teams always believe that their situation could be the right one to turn a player’s career around, and get that level of production that once seemed so promising. But it won’t be because of anything he did in Miami to instill even a modicum of confidence.

bob

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by **KyleCleric** Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:44 am

bobheckler wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:Does anyone know what was Michael Jordan's foot injury his second year, wondering if it was that same nav bone? The Bulls were so against Jordan playing that year, I'd say he recovered pretty well.

cow,

A slightly different answer to your question:

Sign Of Things To Come?

Joel Embiid is the latest in a long line of NBA big men with injuries to the navicular bone in their foot. For Yao Ming, Eric Montross and Bill Walton, the injury ended their careers.

Notable NBA Big Men With
Stress Fracture/Navicular Foot Injury

Year(s)-----Player--------------------Games Missed
2014--------Joel Embiid---------------?
2013-14-----Brendan Haywood--------97
2009-11-----Yao Ming----------------159*
2006--------Kurt Thomas-------------29
2002-03-----Eric Montross------------82*
2002-03-----Jerome James------------27
96-97/99-01-Zydrunas Ilgauskas-------202
1987-88-----Bill Walton---------------82*
1987--------Kevin McHale------------14
*- Did Not Play Again After Injury
--ESPN Stats & Information

Kevin McHale, obviously, had a great career after that. Bill Walton didn't have the kind of mind-blowing career he could have had if not for the foot problems, but he still made it into the HOF. Yao Ming had a MUCH shortened career, but that seems to be related to his high arches, which are not correctable. Z lost the equivalent of 2 1/2 years, but that was over a 13-year career with most of them earlier in his career. From age 26 on, his last 10 years in the league (when you would think his body would be breaking down more often) he averaged 73 games/year. 73 games/year over 10 years. Not bad.

All in all, not as scary as all that. The Ghost Of Oden's Past are with us, but how likely is that to happen again? Then again, as Austin Ainge pointed out "back and foot problems are not good signs for big men".

bob

.

Ilgauskas had strong years after the injuries. Same with McHale. Walton was from pretty much a different era of injuries than the others on this list including McHale. His most notable problems came in the 70s. By 87, he was 34. Montross, Heyward, and James were never more than marginal rotation players. Yao was huge, much bigger than the rest of these players, and overused because of his international commitments. Kurt Thomas is the funny one in this group, old when he got his injury and still had great years after it.

I don't know if I get much out of these circumstances. I guess Ilgauskas and Walton are very notable. Ilgauskas had this problem early in his career and ended up putting things together afterward to become an all star center. Walton though is the cautionary tale of a super center talent whose career never became what it could have been because of injuries. I'm not sure though if he had come to the NBA 30 years later that he wouldn't have had his problems solved instead.

by **bobheckler** Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:52 am

KyleCleric wrote:
bobheckler wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:Does anyone know what was Michael Jordan's foot injury his second year, wondering if it was that same nav bone? The Bulls were so against Jordan playing that year, I'd say he recovered pretty well.

cow,

A slightly different answer to your question:

Sign Of Things To Come?

Joel Embiid is the latest in a long line of NBA big men with injuries to the navicular bone in their foot. For Yao Ming, Eric Montross and Bill Walton, the injury ended their careers.

Notable NBA Big Men With
Stress Fracture/Navicular Foot Injury

Year(s)-----Player--------------------Games Missed
2014--------Joel Embiid---------------?
2013-14-----Brendan Haywood--------97
2009-11-----Yao Ming----------------159*
2006--------Kurt Thomas-------------29
2002-03-----Eric Montross------------82*
2002-03-----Jerome James------------27
96-97/99-01-Zydrunas Ilgauskas-------202
1987-88-----Bill Walton---------------82*
1987--------Kevin McHale------------14
*- Did Not Play Again After Injury
--ESPN Stats & Information

Kevin McHale, obviously, had a great career after that. Bill Walton didn't have the kind of mind-blowing career he could have had if not for the foot problems, but he still made it into the HOF. Yao Ming had a MUCH shortened career, but that seems to be related to his high arches, which are not correctable. Z lost the equivalent of 2 1/2 years, but that was over a 13-year career with most of them earlier in his career. From age 26 on, his last 10 years in the league (when you would think his body would be breaking down more often) he averaged 73 games/year. 73 games/year over 10 years. Not bad.

All in all, not as scary as all that. The Ghost Of Oden's Past are with us, but how likely is that to happen again? Then again, as Austin Ainge pointed out "back and foot problems are not good signs for big men".

bob

.

Ilgauskas had strong years after the injuries. Same with McHale. Walton was from pretty much a different era of injuries than the others on this list including McHale. His most notable problems came in the 70s. By 87, he was 34. Montross, Heyward, and James were never more than marginal rotation players. Yao was huge, much bigger than the rest of these players, and overused because of his international commitments. Kurt Thomas is the funny one in this group, old when he got his injury and still had great years after it.

I don't know if I get much out of these circumstances. I guess Ilgauskas and Walton are very notable. Ilgauskas had this problem early in his career and ended up putting things together afterward to become an all star center. Walton though is the cautionary tale of a super center talent whose career never became what it could have been because of injuries. I'm not sure though if he had come to the NBA 30 years later that he wouldn't have had his problems solved instead.

kyle,

You're right about Yao being overused because the Chinese government put demands on him. He still had those high arches, though.

What with the advances in medical technology and techniques it would be interesting to know if Walton's career could have been saved if he played today.

With Embiid, I'd say it all boils down to his arches. Whether Cleveland measured them or not is significant. If they didn't, and if I was Danny, I'd ask Arn Tellem if we could have our Doc fly out to wherever Embiid is just to check his arches. Based upon everything else I'm hearing from Worcester and others, I'm not as concerned about the other stuff as I am about that.

bob

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by **cowens/oldschool** Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:40 pm

bob thanks for all your info, didn't know Odens main problem this year was his back, not even his knees....if Embiid's agent is a little coy at all in releasing information or giving our staff access to him, I'd pass. At this point I'd be extremely happy with Aaron Gordon and Tavares, I like that the reports say Tavares can already defensively play the pick and roll and is light on his feet for a big. 7'3" 265 with that massive reach sounds like a good load in the paint that could be worth the gamble.

by **MikeD10299** Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:00 pm

I would take the risk but only if the C's medical staff gives it's seal of approval. After all who would know better?

by **112288** Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:11 pm

I would not be surprised if the Celtics have a shot at him at #17. From what I am reading, certain teams have been given limited medical information on him. If he get to #6 and the Celtics pass.........he'll drop like a rock with all the teams knowing the Celtics could use a center.

Sully was viewed at top 5 and he slid to #21 and the Celtics, and that is with full information being given to all the teams.

Maybe Danny does a head fake at #6 to get him at #17 or sooner with a slight trade up.

112288

by **Sam** Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:14 pm

Embiid must be going out of his mind right now. In one sense, his future hangs in the balance. Certainly, he'll be picked—and probably reasonably high—but he'll take a hit on the initial pay scale, and the width of the hit will very likely increase over time.

Sam

by **worcester** Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:33 pm

I heard on the radio today that Embiid had two screws put into his foot. I don't like that at all. IMHO if we draft him, we'll be screwed.

by **112288** Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:56 pm

HUMMM WORCESTER.............Sounds like my doctor..........gave a patient of his 6 months to live............patient said he could not pay his bill.............my doctor have him another 6 months.................

112288

by **bobheckler** Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:14 am

And Embiid's stock just dropped a bit more...

BA prospect Joel Embiid slammed on Twitter after congratulating Cristiano Ronaldo on U.S. draw
Eric Freeman By Eric Freeman
10 hours ago
Dirty Tackle

Portugal shocked the World Cup on Sunday when it scored in the final moments of stoppage time to salvage a draw with the United States and avoid elimination from the tournament. While most soccer fans in the U.S. were frustrated when superstar Cristiano Ronaldo crossed to Silvestre Varela for the equalizing goal, one athlete making his own big news this week found great joy in the moment.

Kansas center and highly touted NBA draft prospect Joel Embiid, a native of Cameroon who has lived in the United States since the summer of 2012, tweeted congratulations to the Portugal captain and Real Madrid star:

Joel-Hans Embiid ✔ @JoelEmbiid
Follow
Ronaldo my boy #halamadrid
4:53 PM - 22 Jun 2014

Embiid, who went from probable No. 1 overall pick of the Cleveland Cavaliers in Thursday's NBA draft to a major risk after suffering a stress fracture in his right foot, was celebrating a happy moment during what's been a tough week. Not surprisingly, an athlete known primarily for his achievements in NCAA basketball and his potential impact in the NBA received a lot of criticism for celebrating a less-than-ideal outcome for the United States, with many people using his foot injury as ammunition:

Joel-Hans Embiid ✔ @JoelEmbiid
Ronaldo my boy #halamadrid
Sean Donnelly @_SeanDonnelly
Follow
“@JoelEmbiid: Ronaldo my boy #halamadrid” praying the Sixers pass on this guy.
4:56 PM - 22 Jun 2014

Joel-Hans Embiid ✔ @JoelEmbiid
Ronaldo my boy #halamadrid
Rich Homie John @Johnsiebels
Follow
@JoelEmbiid if it wasn't for the USA you'd still be living in a third world country, show some respect.
5:04 PM - 22 Jun 2014

bob
MY NOTE: Not very politically astute, but so what? Orlando will not pass on him because of this and neither would Danny. Arn Tellem has to take his phone away from him for the next 3 days. No more mugging for the camera before surgery, no more tweets about the World Cup. He can't be at the NBA draft because of surgery, is likely to drop, it's time to put on a game face and focus.

.

by **gyso** Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:25 pm

Maybe Embiid is a personal friend with Renaldo, the Portugal captain and Real Madrid star. I don't see anything wrong or bad here, just some strange "USA Uber-alles" mentality from the two reactions to Embiid's tweet shown here.

Who is Sean Donnelly (the comedian?) and who is Rich Homie John and how does their reaction to his tweet make this in any way newsworthy? Eric Freeman, who are you? I think you need a real job.

This board has members from other countries. If one of their teams had any success, even if it was against the good old USA, would any one have an issue with someone on this board giving congratulations to them?

gyso

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If available at #6, should Danny select Embiid?