Ray allen Out With Back Spasms

by **112288** Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:41 pm

WEEI REPORTS RAY ALLEN OUT WITH BACK SPASMS
By: Paul Flannery
Ray Allen will not play against the Hornets tonight, the Globe reported. He was scratched with back spasms. Allen was the only member of the Big 3 to start every game this season.

112288

by **jeb** Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:06 pm

great

by **pete** Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:07 pm

Folks,

This sends a red flag up to me. I have not heard the term "back spasms" since the eighties, something is up. Feels like a trade........

Pete

by **112288** Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:20 pm

pete wrote:Folks,

This sends a red flag up to me. I have not heard the term "back spasms" since the eighties, something is up. Feels like a trade........

Pete

Pete,

I was thinking the same thing. When has Ray had a bad back unless he's done some snow shoveling lately.

112288

by **MDCelticsFan** Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:53 pm

The observations on the trade angle are I believe correct. I am sorry to see him (Ray) go. I am sorry for Rosalie too. I know she must be very upset!-MD.

by **dbrown4** Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:29 am

Yeah, I found that very odd as well. We'll know in a week at the latest. Sam, care to comment here?

by **dbrown4** Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:42 am

However, Danny has yet to ever do any draft/trade/fa scenario we or anyone else thinks is going to happen. But it will be one of these four options:

1) Nuclear -Ray or more, starters and bench
2) Mild 2 for 1 - Bench
3) Add-on
4) Nothing

Sam, if he chooses the nuclear option(s), I would have to think the continuity/synergy/consistency issues you have raised repeatedly would clearly not be a concern of the Celtics, at least for the short term. Sans Ray or other starters, can the Celtics get the synergy they need to win the title this year? 30 games is a regular season in the NCAA. Plenty of time. I'm still thinking Option 1 is out. I'll place my bet on 2 or 3 with some players none of us ever thought of!! Just grasping for straws right now. All Star break is finally here!!

by **dbrown4** Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:42 am

However, Danny has yet to ever do any draft/trade/fa scenario we or anyone else thinks is going to happen. But it will be one of these four options:

1) Nuclear -Ray or more, starters and bench
2) Mild 2 for 1 - Bench
3) Add-on
4) Nothing

Sam, if he chooses the nuclear option(s), I would have to think the continuity/synergy/consistency issues you have raised repeatedly would clearly not be a concern of the Celtics, at least for the short term. Sans Ray or other starters, can the Celtics get the synergy they need to win the title this year? 30 games is a regular season in the NCAA. Plenty of time. I'm still thinking Option 1 is out. I'll place my bet on 2 or 3 with some players none of us ever thought of!! Just grasping for straws right now. All Star break is finally here!!

by **Sam** Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:49 am

Dbrown,

Predicting is not my forte. I could make arguments for any of the scenarios. But I intend to floss, clip my nails, read a few comic books, pat the cats, and attend to other essentials while waiting for next week to arrive and to identify the team I'll be supporting.

I do believe 30+ games would be sufficient time for almost any (re)configuration of the team to (re)gain whatever synergy is required to reassume a contending stature. I refer to the first 25 games of the season and also to the recent rapid progress of the bench as examples.

Sam

by **pete** Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:09 am

I remember hearing sports radio, that the beauty of the big three's contracts, is that they expire each year, enabling the Celtics to add an impact player every year. I think this makes good business sense, however, this is not an easy thing to do when you have a class act such as Ray Allen.

The Celtics in the 80's did not part with their big three early enough, I suspect due to loyalty & the fact that they gave their all over the years and played hurt. I agreed with that decision back then.

The Lakers did part with their core players in the 80's which helped them continue to compete and rebuild over the years.

All I can say here, is that I am thankful I did not have to make such a decision, because it can be heart wrenching to do such a thing, but certainly, one can argue a good business one. ( this is something I am not good at)

So, I think something will happen, as it was all part of a long term plan.

Pete

by **gyso** Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:01 am

Pete,

I remember reading discussions on the BDC and reading articles in the press about the "beauty" of the big three's contracts as well. At that time, it was my first foray into the discussion forum world. I only read back then and didn't offer my opinions. (Hard to believe, yet true) My understanding of the NBA Collective Bargaining Agreement was none, zero, bupkiss. I was just a fan of the Boston Celtics.

I remember the talk was about how one of the three would come off the books for three consecutive years. Each year we could replace each player in turn, with another "impact" player. Yes, I remember that part.

What I don't remember reading back then was that in order to get that "impact" player each year, we would have to trade away the asset, the expiring contract, the player, by the trading deadline, each year. The trading deadline is defined as the 16th Thursday of the season. Then we would be without their services for the rest of that season, and probably for the rest of their carreers, due to Salary Cap issues.

We would have to trade away Ray, Paul and Kevin, in that order, one each year, three seasons in a row.

I don't remember reading that part.

gyso

by **Jerry Tarkanian** Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:21 am

Problem seems to be that even with Allen's contract expiring this season the C's would remain over the cap, thus, only a sign & trade would be available in the off season. The 7 expiring contracts currently on the roster are however great trade chips until the 18th. The scenario will likely repeat itself with Pierce and KG in subsequent years.

A decision will need be made as to whether the group intact can be reinvigorated after the break to title contention status.

That is a choice best left to the consensus of DA and Doc. I do not rule out that they have always known this and currently have a plan in place to address this inflexibility.

Tark

by **pete** Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:27 am

Gyso,

I don't remember reading anything specific, and your cap knowledge is way beyond mine.

All I am suggesting is that there was a strategy in the way contracts were structured, but what, how and when they will proceed is in question. Again, I don't pretend to understand it, just throwing it out for discussion.

Pete

by **gyso** Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:02 pm

pete wrote:Gyso,

I don't remember reading anything specific, and your cap knowledge is way beyond mine.

All I am suggesting is that there was a strategy in the way contracts were structured, but what, how and when they will proceed is in question. Again, I don't pretend to understand it, just throwing it out for discussion.

Pete

Pete,

I agree with you totally, the strategy, the contract structure and all. All good stuff to discuss.

My current dismay is directed at the Celtic brass. It is my belief that the Celtic brass left out the huge suck pill regarding the fact that we would have to trade each of these guys in order to capture any "value" going forward, especially if they are deemed "too old" when their contract ran out. The only other way to capture their "value", post contract, is to re-sign them using Bird rights, if they were deemed to be "not old" at that time.

I believe that I would have remembered that part.

I hope you didn't think any of my dismay was aimed at you. Twern't. I am just late to the realization that the best thing for the future of the team may be to trade Ray. I am not happy with the options that leaves us regarding his returning to the Celtics and retiring as a Celtic. I like Ray and he is probably my second favorite, after Rondo.

gyso

by **Jerry Tarkanian** Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:27 pm

I DO believe if traded to a franchise that is positioning for a run at the FA crop this off season, Ray, should he so choose, would be available to us next year for the MLE....and defer to those more knowledgeable of the CBA than I.

Tark

by **pete** Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:56 pm

Gyso,

Not at all, I always appreciate your thoughts & knowledge on this often, confusing part of the NBA business side.

Pete

by **NYCelt** Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:12 pm

Pete and gyso,

I remember reading the same thing; that the beauty of the big three's contracts were that they expired in three consecutive years. I don't recall reading anything, however, that went into depth on how we would potentially part ways with each. If my recall was correct (and it often isn't) what was written was more along the lines of the contract obligation would simply be gone. I think it was more speculation we would then have X number of $'s available to find and sign player.

Regards

by **gyso** Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:22 pm

Jerry Tarkanian wrote:I DO believe if traded to a franchise that is positioning for a run at the FA crop this off season, Ray, should he so choose, would be available to us next year for the MLE....and defer to those more knowledgeable of the CBA than I.

Tark

Tark,

True that. The MLE. Less than 6mil per year. He would be an unrestricted free agent and can do that, if he wanted to. There are other posters that say a drop to 3 years at 10mil per (average) is too much of a drop for Ray to take from his current salary of over 19mil/year. That is perhaps why it hasn't been mentioned. But you are right, Ray can re-sign this summer with the Celtics for 6mil/year using the MLE.

Another option available to us is to do a sign-and-trade for him with the team we trade him to. They get his Bird Rights in the trade so they can sign him to a contract in excess of the MLE amount. Anther dead end. Who do we have under contract next year that we can S&T him for in the 10mil/year range? We only have the MLE and Vet Minumum exceptions to play with.

I have posted before that it is very important to use the expiring contracts now in order to get the one or two players that can help us this year and for the following years. I haven't included Ray in the conversation (until now) because I didn't think it would come to that.

The Nuclear Option.

gyso

by **gyso** Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:34 pm

NYCelt,

Even if the salary cap $$ hadn't gone down this season and the numbers had continued to expand each season, we would be over the cap but under the penalty.

In other words, even if the cap kept expanding, dropping Ray's contract off the books would have given us sal cap penalty relief. However, it would not go far enough to allow us to get actual cap relief and then allow us to add anyone of significance without using an exception.

Bummer.

gyso

by **Jerry Tarkanian** Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:16 pm

gyso wrote:
Jerry Tarkanian wrote:I DO believe if traded to a franchise that is positioning for a run at the FA crop this off season, Ray, should he so choose, would be available to us next year for the MLE....and defer to those more knowledgeable of the CBA than I.

Tark

Tark,

True that. The MLE. Less than 6mil per year. He would be an unrestricted free agent and can do that, if he wanted to. There are other posters that say a drop to 3 years at 10mil per (average) is too much of a drop for Ray to take from his current salary of over 19mil/year. That is perhaps why it hasn't been mentioned. But you are right, Ray can re-sign this summer with the Celtics for 6mil/year using the MLE.

Another option available to us is to do a sign-and-trade for him with the team we trade him to. They get his Bird Rights in the trade so they can sign him to a contract in excess of the MLE amount. Anther dead end. Who do we have under contract next year that we can S&T him for in the 10mil/year range? We only have the MLE and Vet Minumum exceptions to play with.

I have posted before that it is very important to use the expiring contracts now in order to get the one or two players that can help us this year and for the following years. I haven't included Ray in the conversation (until now) because I didn't think it would come to that.

The Nuclear Option.

gyso

gyso,

Enjoy your posts and Sam's as much as anyone's here, but do feel Ray will be overstating market value if looking for a a 3 year $30 million commitment from any franchise.

More likely that strategy would make him the equivalent of Johnny Damon in his quest for a big dollar contract in this economy. The reality is he will be 34/35 years old, coming off a season in which he averaged in the neighborhood of 15 points per game and accompanied by declines in most statistical ranges.

He would likely jump at the MLE if is deemed our best use for that slot.

Regards,

Tark

by **RosalieTCeltics** Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:32 pm

I am hanging in here guys, I will believe it when I see it. (I am not that naive to believe that something MIGHT happen). However, I am taking a wait and see attitude to this. You all know how I feel, I have made it clear many, many times. Ray will be here until the end of the year, I predict. Then again I thought they were going to come out like gang busters this year and be impossible to beat. This year really has been such a disappointment.

HOWEVER, WE HAVE ALMOST A HALF A SEASON TO GO....LET'S HOPE IT GOES ALOT BETTER THAN THE FIRST HALF!!

by **jeb** Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:38 pm

rosie t

Here's to that and heres to Ray Allen a pro and a great Celtic.

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