Odds and Ends

bobheckler wrote:Last night the team with the league's #1 offense finished its sweep of the the team with the league's#1 defense, a team with the best (or, certainly top 3) defensive bigs in the game and strong rebounding PFs in Favors and Lyles.

Take note.  If there was any doubt whatsoever, despite the evidence of our struggles with Washington, Cleveland's easy dispatch of Indy and Toronto and San Antonio's struggles with the perimeter-driven offense of the Houston Rockets the sweep of Utah by GSW firmly establishes the pre-eminence of offense over defense in today's NBA.


bob


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bob

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you got your stats, I mean facts wrong again....SA is up 3-2, won a nailbiter in OT without their best player, Kawhi Leonard out with a sprained ankle.

how doesn't he get thrown out of more games, he is so out of control alot
Last night he was screaming at those referee's like crazy. God, I saw Doc get thrown out of one of the games this year for less than D'Antoni. Consistency in refereeing is terrible

Manu was incredibly effective last night. What a block on Harden to end the game.

I kept waiting for a whistle, but that was one clean block. If they had blown that whistle I think Pop would have popped!!

cowens/oldschool wrote:

bobheckler wrote:Last night the team with the league's #1 offense finished its sweep of the the team with the league's#1 defense, a team with the best (or, certainly top 3) defensive bigs in the game and strong rebounding PFs in Favors and Lyles.

Take note.  If there was any doubt whatsoever, despite the evidence of our struggles with Washington, Cleveland's easy dispatch of Indy and Toronto and San Antonio's struggles with the perimeter-driven offense of the Houston Rockets the sweep of Utah by GSW firmly establishes the pre-eminence of offense over defense in today's NBA.


bob


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bob

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you got your stats, I mean facts wrong again....SA is up 3-2, won a nailbiter in OT without their best player, Kawhi Leonard out with a sprained ankle.

Cow,

Please re-read what I wrote.  

I was referring to the #1 offense of GSW sweeping the #1 defense of Utah.  I would have thought I made that a little clearer when I specified Favors and Lyles, who are on Utah and not on Houston or San Antonio, but I guess not.

And San Antonio is struggling with Houston.  They pulled off a nailbiter last night to make it 3-2 with Leonard injured, but it was 2-2 before last night and Leonard was healthy.  Houston's center is 6'9-6'10", 240# Clint Capela.  Their other center, Nene, is out for the playoffs.  That is not a low-post, paint-driven team on offense or defense.


bob


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D'antoni needs to calm the hell down. I played under Rollie Massimino at Lexington HS. He was intense as they get but always had everything under control. This Fwad loses control and his players follow suit. I would hate playing for him in a tight playoff.
Friggin Killjoy!

Ktronic1 wrote:D'antoni needs to calm the hell down. I played under Rollie Massimino at Lexington HS. He was intense as they get but always had everything under control. This Fwad loses control and his players follow suit. I would hate playing for him in a tight playoff.
Friggin Killjoy!

ktronic,

D'Antoni and SVG are the Anti-Stevens coaches. Have you ever seen Brad Stevens shake hands with either of those guys after a game? I think if they touched the universe would end.

Rollie Massimino! Damn. He's been around since the Earth cooled...


bob


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In 1955 as an 8 year old I had the privilege of being coached by Bob Cousy's Holy Cross teammate, Andy Laska.

http://www.bgcworcester.org/about-us/alumni-hall-fame/2001/andrew-laska

What an inspiring guy. One thing he taught us was on defense don't watch the opponent's eyes or hands. Instead focus on his hips. He can't go anywhere without his hips . Hands and eyes can fake you out. Follow the hips. They will never deceive you.

The Spurs are a machine.  They are who Brad wants us to be.  Their ball movement, even cross-court, is a thing of beauty.  And they hit their shots. TONS of open looks.   Penetration to touch the paint, kick to an outside shooter, maybe one more pass as the defense over-rotates to compensate, and then it's just catch-and-shoot.

Closed out Houston, in Houston, by 39.

Let's do that to Washington tomorrow!


bob


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bobheckler wrote:The Spurs are a machine.  They are who Brad wants us to be.  Their ball movement, even cross-court, is a thing of beauty.  TONS of open looks.
Closed out Houston, in Houston, by 39.

Let's do that to Washington tomorrow!


bob


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Totally agree!

Can you believe they did it without two of their best players? Thie team is unreal. How about that kid Simmons who was undrafted? He was fantastic for them and Aldrege finally put it all together. This was a win they should relish. Unfortunately, Unless there is some crazy miracle in the wind, there is no way they beat GSW

Still, this is a special win

that was the worst coaching job I've ever seen by D'Antoni, he had Harden covering Gasol a lot in 1st quarter, did anyone notice that? Harden took 2 shots at halftime? was he not being coached? Game was over so fast.

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Can you believe they did it without two of their best players?  Thie team is unreal. How about that kid Simmons who was undrafted? He was fantastic for them and Aldrege finally put it all together. This was a win they should relish.  Unfortunately, Unless there is some crazy miracle in the wind, there is no way they beat GSW

Still, this is a special win

Spurs have a great system, no doubt about that.
But what makes the Spurs special is they're a very balanced team.
They have quality bigs and they have good shooters.

However, it's also true they're not going to beat GSW.

cowens/oldschool wrote:that was the worst coaching job I've ever seen by D'Antoni, he had Harden covering Gasol a lot in 1st quarter, did anyone notice that? Harden took 2 shots at halftime? was he not being coached? Game was over so fast.

D'Antoni is not a good coach in my opinion.

It is amazing they beat Houston, in Houston, without Parker and Leonard as Rosalie pointed out.

Pop has been there since the Year of the Flood.  He has veterans, both longtime like Manu and Parker and newer ones like Gasol and Aldridge.  Even Patty Mills has been there 6 years and Danny Green has been there for 7.  So, even the mid-timers have been there as long as Avery Bradley has been with the Celtics and they've been with the same coach in the same system all those years while Bradley has had 2 coaches and 2 systems.  Pop has some young players, but the Spurs are veteran-heavy and after 21 seasons has his system burned in and he's in plug-and-play mode now.  

Give Brad 5 years, which will take him to the end of this contract, and he'll be in plug-and-play mode too with his roster.  Once you're built it gets easier since you're just upgrading or preparing to replace pieces and not trying to cobble something together.  Think of it as inserting Jaylen into the starting lineup when Bradley was out. 4 starters who knew the system covering for a newbie while he learned. If Brad did that next year or the year after it would be closer to what Pop is doing. What Pop is doing is closer to what Red did.

IF we win this series and get to the EC Finals vs Cleveland we will be getting close to being "built".  LeBron will be 33 next year with a ton of miles on his body, Gortat will be 33 next year, D12 will be 32, Kyle Lowry might be somewhere other than Toronto.  Obstacles in our path to #18 will begin to clear away over the next 2-3 years. Others will rise up (Philly?) but they won't have our playoff experience and, as we have seen with GSW and Cleveland, playoff experience is what you need if you want to win in the playoffs.

We will either have a top 4 pick this year, plus Jaylen Brown, plus Smart, plus Rozier on top of our 4 remaining starters (Bradley, IT, Horford, Crowder) or we will have a very high quality player coming in trade for some of those assets.

All that will position us to compete over the next 2-3 years as well as develop that youth that will be gaining playoff experience so they can be ready to take over when LeBron etal teams start to fade.


bob


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bob you forgot to mention KO....???

cowens/oldschool wrote:bob you forgot to mention KO....???

Cow,

No I didn't.  Kelly is a role player and I don't think he'll ever grow to be more than that on a very good team (as opposed to Jaylen and Rozier).  As such, I'm ok with him being traded for another piece.  Where you and I differ is that I don't think he's as bad as you do.  He is a better passer, has better courtvision than most bigs but he is a worse rebounder.  His individual defense is up-and-down, as is his offense, but his team defense has become pretty solid.  Give me a big who can shoot from 3 to open the floor up like he does, a better rebounder and just not a black hole on offense and I can be convinced.  Or give me the aggressive Kelly who has been bouncing Oubre around like he's the rag doll, who blocked two shots at the rim last game, or who rains 3s and posts players up inside with more consistency.  Either way, I'm good.



bob


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bobheckler wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:bob you forgot to mention KO....???

Cow,

No I didn't.  Kelly is a role player and I don't think he'll ever grow to be more than that on a very good team (as opposed to Jaylen and Rozier).  As such, I'm ok with him being traded for another piece.  Where you and I differ is that I don't think he's as bad as you do.  He is a better passer, has better courtvision than most bigs but he is a worse rebounder.  His individual defense is up-and-down, as is his offense, but his team defense has become pretty solid.  Give me a big who can shoot from 3 to open the floor up like he does, a better rebounder and just not a black hole on offense and I can be convinced.  Or give me the aggressive Kelly who has been bouncing Oubre around like he's the rag doll, who blocked two shots at the rim last game, or who rains 3s and posts players up inside with more consistency.  Either way, I'm good.



bob


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agree on all your points, Rozier just ozzes high level athleticism, if he can get skills, his shot near his speed and hops, we have an all star. Smart is such a bad dude with bad intentions, loved the play he ripped that rebound away from I think Capella. Best defense I ever saw from Jaylen was last game. If we trade AB I will miss him, problem with a young team with talent is you can't resign everybody.

this is going to be a big issue for the Celtics to deal with. I just don't know how they will deal with it.. If they draft another guard??????????????

Right now:
IT
BRADLEY
SMART
ROZIER
(I WON'T PUT DOWN YOUNG, HE IS GONE)

Years ago we would also have listed Green, but he has been playing small forward more than anything

Everyone seems to be of te consensus that Bradley will go, I just am not so sure. Danny and Brad both love what Bradley does when he is healthy.
It will be interesting to see what happens tonight. Bradley is not consistent, he has hardly ever put two offensive games together. But, he has also put himself out there, saying that the team needs this to win tonight. Another 29 point game? probably not, but at least 20 will help if others chip in.

I am glad the Celtics have this kind of an issue, maybe someone will offer someone who will be the difference maker next year. If we didn't have to rely on IT for 30 plus points every game, maybe his game would change and he will solidify his place here in Boston for a while. No matter who goes, there are some of us who will find issue with it. It is hard not to seeing the fun we have had watching this team during good runs this year when all was clicking

RosalieTCeltics wrote:this is going to be a big issue for the Celtics to deal with. I just don't know how they will deal with it.. If they draft another guard??????????????

Right now:
IT
BRADLEY
SMART
ROZIER
(I WON'T PUT DOWN YOUNG, HE IS GONE)

Years ago we would also have listed Green, but he has been playing small forward more than anything

Everyone  seems to be of te consensus that Bradley will go, I just am not so sure. Danny and Brad both love what Bradley does when he is healthy.
It will be interesting to see what happens tonight. Bradley is not consistent, he has hardly ever put two offensive games together. But, he has also put himself out there, saying that the team needs this to win tonight.  Another 29 point game? probably not, but at least 20 will help if others chip in.

I am glad the Celtics have this kind of an issue, maybe someone will offer someone who will be the difference maker next year. If we didn't have to rely on IT for 30 plus points every game, maybe his game would change and he will solidify his place here in Boston for a while. No matter who goes, there are some of us who will find issue with it. It is hard not to seeing the fun we have had watching this team during good runs this year when all was clicking

Rosalie

It is probably unlikely that the Celtics will be able to keep both IT and Bradley.

The question then is which one do you keep?  In 2018 they will both be in the final year of their contracts.  During the summer they are both eligible for an extension.  Both have been playing on the cheap and both have outplayed their contracts.  IT is probably looking for Conley type money.  AB is due for a raise in the $18 to $20 million dollar range.  If you lose IT you lose a dynamic one of a kind offensive machine.  If AB goes you lose perhaps your best player at both ends.  If you keep both of them how much is left to sign a free agent?  Can Boston still make it to elite status without signing a big time free agent or making a trade for a player with a big contract?

There are reasons to retain both of them.  The Celtics have some developing young talent in Rozier and Brown.  Rozier has high end athleticism but he is still only 6' 2"  Brown was drafted to play small forward but may swing to the 2.  Both players have a ways to go before them become accomplished at any position that they play.  Neither came out of college as high end offensive weapons.  Enter the 2017 draft and a real opportunity to draft a most dynamic player in Fultz.  He has no weaknesses in terms of his skill level.  He is a PG but has off guard skills and size to be a true combo guard.  If the Celtics do draft him it will further add pressure for DA to move AB or IT.  Adding an offensive talent like Fultz is a must for a team that has lacked consistent scoring from their bench.  Bur just maybe Danny finds a way to keep IT and AB and draft Fultz. And next year with a loaded draft well stocked at the 4/5 spots, DA can bring this project to completion.

dboss

RosalieTCeltics wrote:this is going to be a big issue for the Celtics to deal with. I just don't know how they will deal with it.. If they draft another guard??????????????

Right now:
IT
BRADLEY
SMART
ROZIER
(I WON'T PUT DOWN YOUNG, HE IS GONE)

Years ago we would also have listed Green, but he has been playing small forward more than anything

Everyone  seems to be of te consensus that Bradley will go, I just am not so sure. Danny and Brad both love what Bradley does when he is healthy.
It will be interesting to see what happens tonight. Bradley is not consistent, he has hardly ever put two offensive games together. But, he has also put himself out there, saying that the team needs this to win tonight.  Another 29 point game? probably not, but at least 20 will help if others chip in.

I am glad the Celtics have this kind of an issue, maybe someone will offer someone who will be the difference maker next year. If we didn't have to rely on IT for 30 plus points every game, maybe his game would change and he will solidify his place here in Boston for a while. No matter who goes, there are some of us who will find issue with it. It is hard not to seeing the fun we have had watching this team during good runs this year when all was clicking

Rosalie,

A wealth of riches, indeed. What is complicating it even more is that I think Jaylen is being groomed to play more 2, so you can even throw his name in there for minutes at guard. We saw him guard 6'7" SG Bogdanovich. I wouldn't be surprised to see him spending more time next year guarding 6'7" DeMar DeRozan and 6'7" Jimmy Butler and 6'9" point forward Ben Simmons.


bob


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so , if they don't get #1, a big dilemma? guard, front court, center? I personally feel that all those people out there thinking Hayward is a done deal are dead wrong. He was obviously moved by the reaction of the crowd the other night. There are billboards around the Jazz facility and highway with his name on it, urging him to stay in Utah. He has a young family,the only reason I could see him coming east is to get away from west coast teams who are dominant, and to raise his family in a more educationally sound area here in Boston.
His relationship with Brad is great, but that can't be the reason he makes his move. Brad could move on at some point, (i hope not, he seems to love being here in this sports laden area)

So I guess we may have a better idea after Tuesday when the balls bounce (our way I hope)

Rosalie

I don't know Bob, with that wing span, and athleticism, I can see him staying at three. Especially since he is so physical.

IT is soooo popular out here, the fans, the management, everyone loves this kid. It is great to have him as a face to our franchise that we can be proud of. Kids around her adore him.
I just don't see him going. I could see Bradley being odd man out, which is sad after what we watched the other night. He is so fragile, has not played a full season yet, has he? This is a big issue with me. I love the kid because I love defense, but I just don't know.

And then there is Smart. I feel he is trade bait. Rozier? he is showing us how good he can be. I hope he does it again tonight.

You are right, look at San Antonio, some of those players came out of no where and look how good they play for Pop. Stevens loves that type of team and I think you are right when you say this is what he is trying to build.

Rosalie

The Celtics need a scorer and there are several available guards and small forwards. But we need to avoid adding another short guy.

If we do not get Fultz my second choice would be Josh Jackson and my 3rd choice would be to trade the pick and other assets to add a very significant piece.

dboss

We need speed, strength, length, intelligence, and toughness. Plus skill.